What will D-Dom do before the trade deadline?

Hm, whaddayall think?

  • Stand Pat 1. Go through the season with the roster as it is today until rosters expand

    Votes: 9 4.4%
  • Stand Pat 2. Release Pablo, Peralta and bring up Devers before expansion

    Votes: 55 27.0%
  • Stand Pat 3. BROCK HOLT!!!! to the rescue

    Votes: 18 8.8%
  • Trade for a 3rd baseman

    Votes: 55 27.0%
  • Trade for bullpen help

    Votes: 65 31.9%
  • Trade for starting pitching....EdRod isn't coming back this season....

    Votes: 2 1.0%

  • Total voters
    204

simplicio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2012
5,142
I don't know. I think in a case like Kelly's, where he's got a 4.06 xFIP (a 2.57 difference from his ERA) paired with a 0.25 HR/9 rate (0.57 lower than his career rate, 0.88 lower than last year and 0.75 lower than 2015) it can be pretty instructive.

I think his xFIP is far more likely to be what he's gonna be going forward than his FIP. Especially since his xFIP matches up with who he's been for his entire career in FIP and xFIP. His career ERA isn't much lower, either.
Which career, the starter or the reliever? As j44thor noted above, even within this season there's been real inconsistency in results, along with major changes in his stuff. Trying to draw a line from last year, where half his innings were as a starter, through this year and into the future based on xfip predictions is just silly.
 

SoxLegacy

New Member
Oct 30, 2008
629
Maryland
Ken Rosenthal wrote on his facebook blog (still sad he's resigned to that) that Dom was apparently "thinking outside the box" for 3B options. He said Cozart and **Ian Kinsler** would be interesting outside the box suggestions for us. Both would have to make a move to a position they've never played before, but would add a great deal of experience and stability.

Thoughts?
Thanks for the link to Rosenthal--I had looked on Fox Sports for his columns to no avail. To clarify, after reading Rosenthal's piece, it was he, and not Dombrowski, that suggested both Cozart and Kinsler. Rosenthal also noted that Kinsler has only played third once--for 2 innings--in his career. At 35, switching teams and coming to Boston to learn a new position in the heat of a pennant race might be a tall order for him. And he does have a convoluted history with Pedroia--Kinsler lost the starting shortstop job at ASU to Pedey and eventually transferred to Missouri, and they have been pretty much regarded as competitors for best secondbasemen of this generation--or at least as runners up to Cano. Would Kinsler even want to come here to play in Pedroia's shadow? And he does have a no-trade clause to 10 teams.

Frankly, I think Kinsler is a bad fit due to his age, inexperience, and history. And when Rosenthal closes his column with the idea that the Sox need a spark--they already have one in Pedroia.

In regards to Cozart, he's younger, but also not experienced at 3rd. Sticking with the Reds, though--what about Eugenio Suarez--seems to above average in the field, is OPS'ing 111, has some power, and is inexpensive and signed through the end of the season?
 
Last edited:

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,433
deep inside Guido territory
Thanks for the link to Rosenthal--I had looked on Fox Sports for his columns to no avail. To clarify, after reading Rosenthal's piece, it was he, and not Dombrowski, that suggested both Cozart and Kinsler. Rosenthal also noted that Kinsler has only played third once--for 2 innings--in his career. At 35, switching teams and coming to Boston to learn a new position in the heat of a pennant race might be a tall order for him. And he does have a convoluted history with Pedroia--Kinsler lost the starting shortstop job at ASU to Pedey and eventually transferred to Missouri, and they have been pretty much regarded as competitors for best secondbasemen of this generation--or at least as runners up to Cano. Would Kinsler even want to come here to play in Pedroia's shadow? And he does have a no-trade clause to 10 teams.

Frankly, I think Kinsler is a bad fit due to his age, inexperience, and history. And when Rosenthal closes his column with the idea that the Sox need a spark--they already have one in Pedroia.

In regards to Cozart, he's younger, but also not experienced at 3rd. Sticking with the Reds, though--what about Eugenio Suarez--seems to above average in the field, is OPS'ing 111, has some power, and is inexpensive and signed through the end of the season?
They don't need a spark. They need another hitter. None of these options are any good. If he's not getting Machado, then it's not worth it. Make do until they want to bring Devers up.
 

RIrooter09

Alvin
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2008
7,265
Nothing. If Kinsler can make the move to 3B without a hitch, Devers is able to stay down in Pawtucket for the forseeable future (probably until April 20, 2018 so we save a year of service time).

Kinsler's deal has a team option but also a no trade clause so as Rosenthal said, if we're able to guarantee him that we won't exercise, then he's a free man and Devers is our guy in 2018.
Ahh didn't realize the $10M in 2018 was a team option.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
Which career, the starter or the reliever? As j44thor noted above, even within this season there's been real inconsistency in results, along with major changes in his stuff. Trying to draw a line from last year, where half his innings were as a starter, through this year and into the future based on xfip predictions is just silly.
No, it's not silly. Even in years when he's spent a lot of time in relief (there are no splits for FIP by starter and reliever, unfortunately), like 2012 and 2013, his FIP and xFIPs have been up over 4. The guy has yet to give us a reason to think he's actually better than that, and tossing out his xFIP here is probably not wise.

I've said it before, but I want nothing to do with him close and late in the playoffs. If the team goes into the playoffs with him as the setup man or one of two sharing that job, they're gonna regret it.
 

CurtieLeskanic

New Member
Apr 28, 2014
47
They don't need a spark. They need another hitter. None of these options are any good. If he's not getting Machado, then it's not worth it. Make do until they want to bring Devers up.
I tend to lean here re: making a trade for 3B. I think we'll upgrade our bullpen with either Wilson or Addison Reed. I have been a big proponent of Addison Reed and will be content if he's our only move of the deadline. He will cost less because he becomes a free agent this offseason and as this BTBS article states, is known for bringing a fire hose to any high leverage situation.


https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2017/7/17/15978036/addison-reed-new-york-mets-trade-candidate
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
11,013
Rather than fix what isn't a long term problem at 3rd what about across the diamond at 1B?
Since June 26th Mitch has 1 XBH and is essentially Deven Marrero. The eye test seems to back up that this isn't fluky bad luck, he simply can't drive the ball right now.

Mitch is a UFA and Sam Travis may or may not be the answer. Either way they should be looking at a short term to potentially long term 1B option since after Travis there is nothing interesting on the farm.
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
16,850
Jay Bruce has played some first base for the Mets this year, 6 games so far. He's got 24 HRs and a 121 OPS+, and would be a good power bat to add if we could. He could play some at first, some at DH, some in the OF.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
No, it's not silly. Even in years when he's spent a lot of time in relief (there are no splits for FIP by starter and reliever, unfortunately), like 2012 and 2013, his FIP and xFIPs have been up over 4. The guy has yet to give us a reason to think he's actually better than that, and tossing out his xFIP here is probably not wise.

I've said it before, but I want nothing to do with him close and late in the playoffs. If the team goes into the playoffs with him as the setup man or one of two sharing that job, they're gonna regret it.
How'd he do in the playoffs last year?
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jay Bruce has played some first base for the Mets this year, 6 games so far. He's got 24 HRs and a 121 OPS+, and would be a good power bat to add if we could. He could play some at first, some at DH, some in the OF.
If you're looking at the Mets, wouldn't Lucas Duda be a better answer? 17 HRs, 133 OPS+, a first baseman who has played plenty of OF in his career, and makes considerably less than Bruce.
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
11,013
If you're looking at the Mets, wouldn't Lucas Duda be a better answer? 17 HRs, 133 OPS+, a first baseman who has played plenty of OF in his career, and makes considerably less than Bruce.
Yeah can't imagine Jay Bruce as a UFA would be excited to move from OF to 1B, a position he has never really played, in a contract year.
 

richgedman'sghost

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2006
1,878
ct
What has Kimbrel done in the playoffs? He has not exactly lit it up in the playoffs either. He pitched 2 meaningless innings last year...While his overall post season numbers are not "awful" , he also has not proven he can be trusted either. I still remember him standing angerily in the Atlanta bullpen while someone else blew the playoff game. Maybe it hasn't been his fault, but Kimbrel hasn't had that pressure cooker or dominating moment such as what Chapman Jansen Faulk or even Papplebon. How will he handle bases loaded nobody out in the 9th leading by one run? We don't know for sure, at least for now.
 
Last edited:

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
Well he did make it a few years with Atlanta and has a 1.13 ERA in 8 innings and has 13 Ks with the only run he gave up coming in 2010.
I'm really not sure what the point of the post is though. Are you saying you don't trust him in the playoffs? It's not his fault the Sox were out so quickly and they were behind the entire time, that is kind of like blaming Britton for not doing well in the playoffs last year.

If I'm missing some brilliant satire in the previous post I'd appreciate being filled in.

Edit: This is obviously not about Moreland.
 

The Mort Report

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 5, 2007
7,002
Concord
What has Kimbrel done in the playoffs? He has not exactly lit it up in the playoffs either. He pitched 2 meaningless innings last year...While his overall post season numbers are not "awful" , he also has not proven he can be trusted either. I still remember him standing angerily in the Atlanta bullpen while someone else blew the playoff game. Maybe it hasn't been his fault, but Kimbrel hasn't had that pressure cooker or dominating moment such as what Chapman Jansen Faulk or even Papplebon. How will he handle bases loaded nobody out in the 9th leading by one run? We don't know for sure, at least for now.
Wait so because he was angry someone else blew the save means he can't be trusted? By your words he's pissed he wasn't called upon? It's not like he gets to decide when he goes in
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
What has Kimbrel done in the playoffs? He has not exactly lit it up in the playoffs either. He pitched 2 meaningless innings last year...While his overall post season numbers are not "awful" , he also has not proven he can be trusted either. I still remember him standing angerily in the Atlanta bullpen while someone else blew the playoff game. Maybe it hasn't been his fault, but Kimbrel hasn't had that pressure cooker or dominating moment such as what Chapman Jansen Faulk or even Papplebon. How will he handle bases loaded nobody out in the 9th leading by one run? We don't know for sure, at least for now.
Maybe we should try to get Faulk or Papplebon
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,647
They may be steamed but they had a chance to undo it or get some form of compensation right? And they chose not to do it. They have a right to be upset to some degree but there was a window to have redress and they didn't take it.
 

CurtieLeskanic

New Member
Apr 28, 2014
47
Wonder what the Mets would ask for a Duda/Reed package?
I asked my Mets buddies more about Reed and Duda. He's been a rock out there with or without Familia. They're in a spot where a new prospect is breathing down Duda's neck next year. No chance of him going back.

I think for a package like that we tell them to pick a middle infielder not named Dalbec or Chavis and a close to MLB ready arm. They'll need some serious overhaul on the left side of the infield and someone like CJ Chatham coming thru the ranks could be great as a D-first SS of the future.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,470
Oregon
They may be steamed but they had a chance to undo it or get some form of compensation right? And they chose not to do it. They have a right to be upset to some degree but there was a window to have redress and they didn't take it.
And, thus far, they've come out ahead
 

Bigpupp

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 8, 2008
2,415
New Mexico
They may be steamed but they had a chance to undo it or get some form of compensation right? And they chose not to do it. They have a right to be upset to some degree but there was a window to have redress and they didn't take it.
They had a window to undo it, but it was already after the trade deadline and would have weakened the team right before going into the playoffs. It might have been fair to give the Sox a chance to undo the trade in the winter, but that didn't happen.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
71,125
I think for a package like that we tell them to pick a middle infielder not named Dalbec or Chavis and a close to MLB ready arm. They'll need some serious overhaul on the left side of the infield and someone like CJ Chatham coming thru the ranks could be great as a D-first SS of the future.
Hahaha, Amed Rosario would like to have a word with you. You know, the guy who is the top prospect in the entire minor leagues with Moncada up now, the guy who is impatiently waiting his turn to play SS for the Mets.
 

CurtieLeskanic

New Member
Apr 28, 2014
47
Hahaha, Amed Rosario would like to have a word with you. You know, the guy who is the top prospect in the entire minor leagues with Moncada up now, the guy who is impatiently waiting his turn to play SS for the Mets.
Yikes, blanked on Rosario. So maybe Dalbec or Chavis might be the answer for them. For Reed and Duda I wouldn't mind one of them going with another add on.
 

MikeM

Member
SoSH Member
May 27, 2010
3,111
Florida
.
I think for a package like that we tell them to pick a middle infielder not named Dalbec or Chavis and a close to MLB ready arm. They'll need some serious overhaul on the left side of the infield and someone like CJ Chatham coming thru the ranks could be great as a D-first SS of the future.
I doubt we'll have the luxury of being that pick and choosy with Reed coming back in the package. We are not the only team looking for relief help atm, and he's good/cheap enough where a winning deadline bid probably isn't going to be stealing him off the table.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
21,669
Rogers Park
This is a shame IMO because I'm getting my first glimpse of Brad Hand and he looks very, very good.

He throws a huge outlandish breaking ball with a kind of Zitoish arm slot, and he can use it in a couple ways. He throws it in the LHH batters box and drops it in for a strike. He throws it over the plate and finishes it at a RHH's back foot. And sometimes he tightens it up a bit for a slurvier pitch. They all look like curveballs to me, but Brooks Baseball calls them sliders. Tremendous break.

The hitters — admittedly, these are the Giants — simply cannot tell the difference between the curve and the fastball. Denard Span just took a very pedestrian four seamer at 92 down the middle of the plate for strike three.
 

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
What has Kimbrel done in the playoffs? He has not exactly lit it up in the playoffs either. He pitched 2 meaningless innings last year...While his overall post season numbers are not "awful" , he also has not proven he can be trusted either. I still remember him standing angerily in the Atlanta bullpen while someone else blew the playoff game. Maybe it hasn't been his fault, but Kimbrel hasn't had that pressure cooker or dominating moment such as what Chapman Jansen Faulk or even Papplebon. How will he handle bases loaded nobody out in the 9th leading by one run? We don't know for sure, at least for now.
I see you edited this and added some more information but I don't see how it helped your case.
First off no, a 1.13 era and 13 ks in 8 innings isn't "awful" or anywhere close to it. I don't recall your anecdote about him fuming while someone else blew a save but assuming it is 100% true, so what?

Also if Kimbrel was simply "not awful" in the playoffs then the Dodgers must be really concerned about Jansen and his pedestrian 2.66 era including a 6.75 era against Washington just last year(obviously he was nails against the Cubs and no they shouldn't be worried about him that would be dumb).

Sure it would be great if the Sox could add another arm in the bullpen but I don't want them giving up most of what is left of the farm to get someone in case Kimbrel isn't up to the playoff pressure. If they can't get someone cheap I'm ok with seeing what Workman can do and I'm hoping Smith comes back to what he was.
I'm guessing that was your point though you didn't actually state it.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,533
This is a shame IMO because I'm getting my first glimpse of Brad Hand and he looks very, very good.

He throws a huge outlandish breaking ball with a kind of Zitoish arm slot, and he can use it in a couple ways. He throws it in the LHH batters box and drops it in for a strike. He throws it over the plate and finishes it at a RHH's back foot. And sometimes he tightens it up a bit for a slurvier pitch. They all look like curveballs to me, but Brooks Baseball calls them sliders. Tremendous break.

The hitters — admittedly, these are the Giants — simply cannot tell the difference between the curve and the fastball. Denard Span just took a very pedestrian four seamer at 92 down the middle of the plate for strike three.
I dont know about Hand or the Sox interest in him, but the tweet is meaningless, unless you think this is a possible scenario:

DD: "what do you want for Hand?
Preller: Noe Ramirez
DD: No deal. I hate you.
 

NDame616

will bailey
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
2,338
Wait, the Sox are supposedly still mad at a trade that netted them the guy who's probably been their 2nd best picture for the duration of the season (Price and EDro hurt, Porcello bad to start) for a guy who hasn't thrown in a year?
 

Green Monster

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,277
CT
Wait, the Sox are supposedly still mad at a trade that netted them the guy who's probably been their 2nd best picture for the duration of the season (Price and EDro hurt, Porcello bad to start) for a guy who hasn't thrown in a year?
No, they are likely mad at the dishonesty and deception that was exhibited by Preller (two sets of medical records) and don't trust doing future business with him.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/09/a-j-preller-suspended-thirty-days-for-failure-to-disclose-medical-information.html
 
Last edited:

The Mort Report

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 5, 2007
7,002
Concord
Wait, the Sox are supposedly still mad at a trade that netted them the guy who's probably been their 2nd best picture for the duration of the season (Price and EDro hurt, Porcello bad to start) for a guy who hasn't thrown in a year?
it has nothing to do with how the trade worked out, its that they hid medicals from the Red Sox
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,533
Right. The results and the process are easy to compartmentalize, and the process is worth being wary of.
Of course it is worth "being wary of.". But thinking that DD is going to try and be even less professional than Preller by rejecting an otherwise good trade, or not exploring one at all, just because its Preller, is silly. In fact, DD probably is quite secure, knowing a) if Preller does it again, he's probably out of baseball; and b) that even last year, MLB gave the sox a chance to rescind the deal.
 

grimshaw

Member
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
4,227
Portland
I'm not sure what the point of Rutledge on this roster is aside from pinch running or 3rd pinch hitting option.

He is equally medicore vs. lefties (wRC+ 78) as he is righties (wRC+76), so not really platoon worthy.
I'm not even sure who he pinch hits for. If they're facing a lefty, Marrero is probably hitting, and Holt vs. a righty. Young would probably pinch hit for a catcher.

I get that someone has to be the 25th man, but I'd rather have Lin or a bat like Brentz.
 
Last edited:

kazuneko

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
2,837
Honolulu HI
I asked my Mets buddies more about Reed and Duda. He's been a rock out there with or without Familia. They're in a spot where a new prospect is breathing down Duda's neck next year. No chance of him going back.
I would far prefer Duda to any of the options being discussed and actually don't even really understand the obsession people have with getting a 3rd baseman. The solution at 3rd seems pretty clear. Stick with the current platoon until Devers is ready sometime next month. Once that happens, it seems like there is a good chance that the team gets at least league average offense from him for the rest of the season.
Meanwhile 1st base is an unmitigated disaster, with no plan in sight if a trade isn't made. Mitch Moreland is not only 24th in the Majors in OPS among qualified 1st basemen, he only ranks that high because of a strong start to the season. His recent performance has been putrid. Moreland's July OPS of .428 ranks him 183rd (out of 184) among all batters who had at least 50 ABs in the month of July. In contrast, Duda's .897 OPS would rank him 4th in the AL at 1B. With the Mets 5 games below .500 and Duda a free agent at the end of the season it seems likely they will trade him before the deadline. And while Duda is a good hitter, he is hardly the type of star that is likely to get a huge return as a rental.
 
Last edited:

gedman211

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2016
2,844
I would far prefer Duda to any of the options being discussed and actually don't even really understand the obsession people have with getting a 3rd baseman. The solution at 3rd seems pretty clear. Stick with the current platoon until Devers is ready sometime next month. Once that happens, it seems like there is a good chance that the team gets at least league average offense from him for the rest of the season.
Meanwhile 1st base is an unmitigated disaster, with no plan in sight if a trade isn't made. Mitch Moreland is not only 24th in the Majors in OPS among qualified 1st basemen, he only ranks that high because of a strong start to the season. His recent performance has been putrid. Moreland's July OPS of .428 ranks him 183rd (out of 184) among all batters who had at least 50 ABs in the month of July. In contrast, Duda's .897 OPS would rank him 4th in the AL at 1B. With the Mets 5 games below .500 and Duda a free agent at the end of the season it seems likely they will trade him before the deadline. And while Duda is a good hitter, he is hardly the type of star that is likely to get a huge return as a rental.
Those Moreland #s are terrifying. Duda could very well be the best value out there. If they acquired Duda, do you think they can DL Moreland until rosters expand? It seems like someone's going to have to get DFA'd with Holt and Rutledge without options. Lin seems to be the more productive infielder, and he's stuck in AAA because of Holt and Rutledge. With Duda, then you'd also have 3 roster spots going to 1st baseman -with Travis getting stuck in AAA. Hopefully Moreland would accept a lengthy DL stint. Then they could cut Rutledge and bring up Lin and possibly Travis until Devers is ready. There's a logjam of underperforming veterans on the major league roster: Young, Moreland, Holt, Rutledge- while at Pawtucket you've got Brentz, Lin, Travis and Castillo- any of which might be an improvement.
 

CurtieLeskanic

New Member
Apr 28, 2014
47
Those Moreland #s are terrifying. Duda could very well be the best value out there. If they acquired Duda, do you think they can DL Moreland until rosters expand? It seems like someone's going to have to get DFA'd with Holt and Rutledge without options. Lin seems to be the more productive infielder, and he's stuck in AAA because of Holt and Rutledge. With Duda, then you'd also have 3 roster spots going to 1st baseman -with Travis getting stuck in AAA. Hopefully Moreland would accept a lengthy DL stint. Then they could cut Rutledge and bring up Lin and possibly Travis until Devers is ready. There's a logjam of underperforming veterans on the major league roster: Young, Moreland, Holt, Rutledge- while at Pawtucket you've got Brentz, Lin, Travis and Castillo- any of which might be an improvement.
I know it's a small sample and I'm still rooting for the guy, but I think Brock's days are numbered. Concussions are nothing to mess around with and he really got hit hard by them. Some people simply can't come back from that.

Moreland could and should be sent to the DL. Dude has been playing on one foot since the middle of May it seems like. Duda/Reed would be a great package to receive. We may not be able to be picky but if they wanted Chavis + a AAA Arm I would be more than happy to give it to them. Duda and Reed fill our two most glaring needs. A power bat and a high leverage reliever.
 

MikeM

Member
SoSH Member
May 27, 2010
3,111
Florida
Those Moreland #s are terrifying. Duda could very well be the best value out there. If they acquired Duda, do you think they can DL Moreland until rosters expand?
Given Moreland's contract year status and the fact he's a recently signed vet who just gave us a pretty solid first half, I'm guessing he'd need to be going to other way in the trade.

Duda makes a ton of overall sense to me too, but I won't be holding my breathe waiting for the quick hook 1B upgrade to happen over a bad July. Human element factor and such.
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
11,013
Have a feeling we will see a lot of Moreland in there when Devers is playing. Can't have two inconsistent fielders on the corners at the same time.