The Red Sox would gain the benefit of deducting the pro-rated minimum salary from their books IF Sandoval signs on somewhere else this season (on an MLB contract, that is). Pretty sure that is not the case beyond this season, though.
Who's on Third? I don't know
- Thread starter Devizier
- Start date
Yeah, someone will do what the Sox did with Peralta and give him a minor league deal and see if he can figure something out. If he does, the new team gets a cheap player. If he doesn't, he goes and sits on his couch or, if he's motivated, gets a deal with the Atlantic League.
Sam Leweck @samleweck 2h2 hours ago
Source: Red Sox and White Sox could reach agreement on potential Todd Frazier deal as soon as tonight. Deal is NOT inevitable, I'm told.
Brian Bilek @BrianBilek_ 1h1 hour ago
#Source re: #WhiteSox -#RedSox Frazier deal: "Not quite done - but has legs. Almost in the medicals stage. Don't expect a great return."
Really curious what "not a great return" means. He's a rental, and having a subpar season, but he's still a league-average overall hitter with power and a solid defensive 3B.
Wouldnt be surprised if Lin was included in that deal, if it comes to be. CWS just released Everth Cabrera
Yes. No different than him laying on the beach or playing softball. They only save a bit if he plays in MLB with another team.
The White Sox had a "clerical error" on Thursday where Moncada was coming up today. Kind of weird timing. Lin makes sense to go to AAA since they don't really have anyone below Moncada.
Hope not.
Clerical error? It would be nice to get Moncada back from the White Sox in some sort of reverse-Fisk maneuver.
If I've learned anything from the DD era it's to expect the expected.
He's a blunt to the point General Manager.
Todd Frazier feels a need at a muted price. It makes a ton of sense.
He's a blunt to the point General Manager.
Todd Frazier feels a need at a muted price. It makes a ton of sense.
Frazier has a 923 OPS since June 1st. He solves a giant problem and really lengthens a short lineup by Red Sox standards. Hope this gets done.
Regarding Frazier, I think it would be a mistake to expect much more out of him than he's already given the white sox. His BABIP is staggeringly low and will likely improve but he's at .767 OPS and has never been much more than that (one season over .800), so I expect other things to come back to normal (his walk rate is an outlier from his career norms) and he'd likely be a mid .700 OPS player going forward. That said, he would provide a little stability as I think its crazy to expect better than that from Holt/Lin/Marrero. I just hope DD pays for a league average 3b and not a "40 Home run guy!"
A league average 3b would be a major upgrade, and it's all anybody should be expecting. I don't think anybody's suggesting that Frazier is a superstar. Mid-.700s OPS and competent defense--how many fatted calves would we have sacrificed to get that from Sandoval? We have a chance to get it now for maybe a couple of fungible prospects. That's what people are excited about, not that he's Beltre redux or anything.
Ya, I may not have been clear, I was responding to the post above mine saying that he may just be a .700 OPS guy. I think he probably is, maybe closer to .750/.760, but a stabilizing force at the position. My only concern is price and my hope is that DD pays for what he is and not his "former all star, 40 home run" reputation. The report of not a big price is appealing, for sure.
Yeah but if this has a top prospect going back to Chicago it's going to be really bad. Depends what is defined as not great return.
This isn't like pitching, which most contenders could use. How many contenders are in the market to upgrade to a league average 3rd baseman? The White Sox will be as motivated to dump salary as the Red Sox are to acquire Frazier. There's no reason to believe this will be a big prospect from Boston.
I agree with this. Seems to me that the Red Sox and Yankees are the only two contenders really looking to add a 3B. Now that they've lost Pineda to TJ, the Yankees probably need a SP more than 3B.
Let's also remember that trading Frazier would give the White Sox an opening to call up Moncada and ease him into a major league role, so even if they have to eat some of Frazier's salary they're motivated to move him.
Two additional pieces per MLBTR:
And the second:
So Dombrowski will presumably try to negotiate a deal with the White Sox where they eat just enough of the salary ($3M-ish) to keep the Red Sox under the threshold, with whatever talent sweetening that requires (hopefully more a matter of quantity than quality).
Even if all we get is a 700 OPS with adequate defense, the lineup looks a lot better with a RH power bat at the bottom: Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Moreland*, Ramirez, Benintendi*, Frazier, Bradley Jr*, Vazquez. And it sounds like we might be able to get him just for guys who would be caught in the 40-man squeeze this winter (Callahan and Darwinzon Hernandez?).
Exactly -- it's a deal that makes sense for both sides.
Edit: And if the Sox are genuinely interested in Philly's Neshek and his prorated $6.5M, that could impact things as well, as Dombrowski may have to choose between salary flexibility and prospect talent.
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Keep in mind that the Red Sox would only be "charged" for the pro-rated portion of his salary he'd earn with them. So they could take Frazier on without the White Sox paying anything and still stay under the cap. If they acquired him today, there's about 45% of the season left so they'd only be responsible for ~45% of his $12M salary, or about $5.4M.
D'oh! Of course. No sweetener needed, unless the Sox want to allow themselves a little extra room for another deadline acquisition like a bullpen arm. Thanks for the correction.
BTW, Interesting article here points to Frazier's improved walk rate:
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/242100678/todd-frazier-a-good-trade-fit-for-red-sox/
It's not because pitchers are throwing him fewer strikes -- in fact his Zone% is the highest it's been since his rookie year. He has dramatically reduced his swing rate. It has been in the upper 40s most of his career, even going as high as 53% in 2015. This year it's 41.6%.
Also, he has had bizarrely extreme home/road splits this year. At home he has been just terrible: .141 BABIP, 10.2% HR/FB, slash of .141/.300/.297. On the road, those numbers respectively are .283, 22.9%, .267/.368/.555. Just sample size?
I was looking at Todd Frazier's stats and his Home / Away splits have been crazy this year. Can we draw any kind of conclusions from this or do we just write if off as small sample size variance?
For what it's worth, he had a slight split with Chicago last year as well. In his career with Cincinnati, he almost always hit significantly better at home.
Code:
2017 G PA HR RBI BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip
Home 38 155 5 17 .143 .290 .302 .592 .144
Away 41 171 11 27 .267 .368 .555 .923 .283
Code:
2016 G PA HR RBI BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip
Home 79 322 16 41 .218 .293 .425 .717 .230
Away 79 344 24 57 .233 .311 .502 .813 .242
The weird split is probably just BABIP squirrelliness, kind of like Hanley's first half numbers against LHP. There can be a lot of noise in a split like that, because it's only like 150 PA.
He's basically missing 20 hits on BIP over 3+ months.
He's basically missing 20 hits on BIP over 3+ months.
Fans may still dig the long ball, but the market value of Frazier 40 HR types has certainly plummeted of late among the front offices writing the checks. I'll be fairly surprised here if the return beyond cash relief isn't based around names 90% of this board isn't even going to be familiar with. Unless maybe they want to take a last ditch flyer on Swihart or something.
If nothing else I'd like the trade just because it gives us an in-house preview of one of the guys we might decide to turn around and grab up on the relative cheap this winter. Whether it be at 3rd with Devers shifting to first, or at 1B with the insurance potential to move back to 3rd if things go south with Devers.
I am waiting to see how Brock Holt is recovering from vertigo, as he was impressive in his work with the PawSox earlier this month.
There's no guarantee Devers is going to be healthy and/or ready next year. Assuming Moreland goes somewhere else, we're going to want to have cheap veteran options at first and third.
I get the feeling that the White Sox are talking to both the Sox and the Yanks and the Yanks want to wait until the end of this series before finalizing a deal.
Maybe it's just stupid fancasting, but this series has a pretty huge effect on the Yanks' outlook at the deadline. Were the Sox to sweep, the Yanks would be at .500 in third place and probably looking up at the second wild card.
Maybe it's just stupid fancasting, but this series has a pretty huge effect on the Yanks' outlook at the deadline. Were the Sox to sweep, the Yanks would be at .500 in third place and probably looking up at the second wild card.
With Pinetaraeda heading for TJ, I can't imagine a 3Bman is the Yankees top priority, but it does seem reasonable that they would try to complicate matters for the Red Sox.
Frazier can play 1B too. Since breaking his toe last month Moreland has 6 RBI in 21 GS and is batting 164 with a sub 550 OPS. Hit 3 balls well tonight but nothing to show for it but a SF. Travis has fared worse in his starts batting only 125 with 435 OPS since getting recalled. SSS of course but 1B has become more of a concern than the Lin/Marrero tandem at 3B and Frazier being able to play both positions is a bonus
They are interested in him for 1B or moving Headley to 1B with Frazier at 3B
Why not go ahead and trade for Frazier and let him hold down 3rd the rest of the season and then re-sign him as FA so that next year he can play 1st with devers at 3rd. That way don't have to sign Moreland and maybe while at it can move hanram in a trade for a potentially better DH. Frazier can play 1st next year and also a little at dh and third.
A healthy Moreland seems to be a far better option than Frazier at 1B for 2018. Other than Frazier being shiny and new (to us) that is.
Frazier offers an overall level of flexibility and insurance that Moreland doesn't/won't though.
Although I still can't see us signing either anyway atm, barring the possibility Frazier makes a really solid post-trade impression. Which I guess some people here should be rooting pretty hard to see happen, since I doubt DD cares nearly as much as they do about what Devers' potential WAR value on paper is looking like in the aftermath of a bigger lineup upgrade.
If they package Robertson. Why do I get the sickening feeling on what DD is going to give up. Hell im already scared about what the return will be for the White Sox with Frazier alone.
Bob NightengaleVerified account @BNightengale 42s42 seconds ago
The #Whitesox would get only fringe prospect in return for Frazier, and eating part of contract too, in any deal
