Worst Parent Stories

Heinie Wagner

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Nov 14, 2001
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riboflav said:
 
Not all of us. Some of us here have coached high school and college without having coached our kids. Keep fighting the good fight or quit and let others replace you.
 
I'm in it for my kids, but I honestly wish I'd gotten into this years before I had kids. It was something I considered but never really committed to. I'll very likely stay in it after my kids are done. I'm not sure what else I'd do with all the time I put into it now.
 

robssecondjob

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Jul 18, 2005
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Heinie Wagner said:
 
I'm in it for my kids, but I honestly wish I'd gotten into this years before I had kids. It was something I considered but never really committed to. I'll very likely stay in it after my kids are done. I'm not sure what else I'd do with all the time I put into it now.
Mark me down for the same.  
 
I did a guest coaching gig yesterday and the look on one of the kids faces (U14) after he scored for the first time in his now 6-year career sealed the deal for me.  I am not sure that coaching a team to World Cup would be more rewarding than that minute.  Absolute pure joy.  
 

DJnVa

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We had 2 parents ejected Saturday from a U18 game. Our school soccer is in the spring, so travel clubs don't play a schedule, so some kids drop down and play Advanced games to keep playing, so in some games there's a BIG discrepancy in skill level. Some teams even have that discrepancy from player to player.
 
Anyway, a hard foul by our player, led the other kid to pop up and drop some f bombs while walking towards our player, which caused our kid to taunt back and earn a yellow. Frankly I think the f bombs should have earned a card as well.
 
Anyway, that started a loud-mouth parent from the other team to start yelling at our kids, and one of our mothers got up into his face and told him to not direct his comments at our kids. He then did the "hold me back, hold me back" thing. Ref ejected both, their guy took a while but eventually left. Our parent emailed all of us to apologize for her actions later that evening.
 
Also, the game ended when, with about 20 seconds left, up by one, our fullback dropped a ball back to the keeper (about 100 feet away) to kill off the clock and our keeper somehow allowed it to roll past him and into the net.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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Jul 26, 2007
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My son plays on an 8th grade B lacrosse team. They are decent-they have 3-4 kids that could compete on an A team, but also have 5 or 6 kids at the bottom of the roster that are pure filler, who cant play at all.  Most of their games have been competitive this year, some wins, some losses.  The took an absolute beating school vacation week, 14-1 or something like that, from a team in a neighboring town.  it was both a physical and mental beating, with a few kids getting hurt.
 
Found out this past weekend that the other team was playing a sophomore varsity player in goal, and at least one other "older" kid-a 9th or 10th grader.  The goalie absolutely destroyed one of the smaller kids on our team with a hit-perfectly legal in the game context, but completely ridiculous that it was on a kid two years younger, who is just learning the game.  
 
I mean, who does this?  Who sneaks a high school kid into a "B" team game, and then runs up the score?   WTF are these coaches thinking?  
 

Cumberland Blues

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Maybe I should start a "Worst League Admin" thread...but I got stuck with the scheduling for our league this year...we're a small LL so we play a bunch of games with other towns in the area.  We actually had enough teams in minors this year that we could've made do with just a couple games per team against neighbor leagues - but I wanted to accomodate as many games as I could so that next year when our numbers go back down, hopefully the other towns will reciprocate.  So there's a league a couple towns north of us that we played a couple games with last year and we were pretty evenly matched - so I booked a bunch of games with them this year.  We are now 10 days into our season, and we have had 4 schedule snafus - all caused by that league's schedule guy giving wrong info to his teams.  And of course all our coaches bitch at me when the other team doesn't show up.
 
On Saturday - they had a team that was supposed play at 11:30 show up at our field at 8:30 expecting to play at 9.  The team that was supposed play one of our other teams at 9 didn't show til 10.  Their schedule guy calls me insisting that all games are 10am and he has no idea where the 9 and 11:30 came from.  So I forward him his "OK" reply to the confirmation e-mail with the game times and he claims he never saw it.  We luckily had a cancellation on our second field - so the afternoon games didn't get pushed back too far - but without that cancelation we'd have had to send one of their teams home without playing.
 
And just to tie this into the "Worst Parent" thread...I ended up umping the bases for one of the games because the regular guy thought the game was at 9 and had a commitment elsewhere.  One of the other league's parents for whatever reason sat with all our parents.  Then in the 4th or 5th inning w/ 2 outs on our team, he starts yelling that there are three outs.  Everyone ignores him for a bit but he eventually got really loud.  I walk over to him and inform him that there are only two outs - and he starts pointing at a kid on our bench insisting he struck out that inning (the 2 outs were both on the bases).  The kid never even hit that inning - but had his helmet on when he brought the HP ump some baseballs.  This clown probably saw him walking back to the dugout and thought he struck out - and he would not let it go until their coach yelled at him and held up two fingers.  He spent the rest of the game complaining to the people sitting next to him that our team got 4 outs every inning.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Was (Not Wasdin) said:
My son plays on an 8th grade B lacrosse team. They are decent-they have 3-4 kids that could compete on an A team, but also have 5 or 6 kids at the bottom of the roster that are pure filler, who cant play at all.  Most of their games have been competitive this year, some wins, some losses.  The took an absolute beating school vacation week, 14-1 or something like that, from a team in a neighboring town.  it was both a physical and mental beating, with a few kids getting hurt.
 
Found out this past weekend that the other team was playing a sophomore varsity player in goal, and at least one other "older" kid-a 9th or 10th grader.  The goalie absolutely destroyed one of the smaller kids on our team with a hit-perfectly legal in the game context, but completely ridiculous that it was on a kid two years younger, who is just learning the game.  
 
I mean, who does this?  Who sneaks a high school kid into a "B" team game, and then runs up the score?   WTF are these coaches thinking?  
Wow, I think you win this thread.  Holy shit.
 

robssecondjob

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Jul 18, 2005
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We had the tryout last night for an open roster spot on one of our Division 1 travel teams.  The tryout was pushed by the parents of Division 2 players.  They claimed their kids never get the playing time and coaching that the Division 1 players get.  
 
After the tryout a player was selected to move up.  Fairly non-controversial call-up.  The players that were not selected all agreed the best player got the call.
 
One of the Division 2 parents that was most vocal about wanting a Division 2 player to be moved up approached me with, "You know you people have destroyed our team by taking our best player.  That is very unfair to the Division 2 players...". 
 

Heinie Wagner

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Simsbury, CT
robssecondjob said:
One of the Division 2 parents that was most vocal about wanting a Division 2 player to be moved up approached me with, "You know you people have destroyed our team by taking our best player.  That is very unfair to the Division 2 players...". 
 
LMAO - what a nutjob. No matter what you do with youth sports, you just can't make everyone happy.
 

Doug Beerabelli

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My younger brother regaled with this tale over the weekend (more coach than parent, but a good one).   He coaches his second and fourth grade daughters in lacrosse (separate teams).   They play jamborees against other towns.   2nd grade team has a game vs. next door town.   There's a rule that defenders have to stay within a stick length of who they guard, and not pack into the front of the goal area.  A safety rule for the girls.  Can't shoot until three passes completed.   Apparently, after his team would make the pass minimums, to other coach would yell something like "RED", and all his team would suddenly pack their players in front of the net in violation of the rule to block any shot.  Refs are usually lower HS lax players, who aren't fully aware of the rule, or aren't assertive enough to call it.   After a bunch of times, my brother confronted the other coach, who stated "It's not technically against the rules," which was wrong.  My brother says to him, "Oh, I get it.  This is all about winning a second grade girls lacrosse game." They got into it a little bit.  Refs finally started calling the violation.   He also thinks the team played 4th graders in the second grade game.
 
2nd grade girls lacrosse...
 

Just a bit outside

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How about a coach/parent daily double.  My son's high school hired the parent of a freshman to be the c team coach in baseball.  Why do schools hire parents to be coaches? The guy knows next to nothing about baseball. Verified by watching him call a suicide squeeze with 2 outs twice this season.  Anyway, the guy thinks his kid is awesome, he is not, and is trying to do anything to get him noticed.  The kid plays on JV but the dad calls him down to play in every c team game if there is no conflict.  Other kids who show up and try every day get benched so this guy can promote his kid.  The dad played the kid too many innings according to Colorado High School Athletic Association and the entire baseball program is now on probation.  None of the baseball coaches are allowed to see the players this summer and they may be ineligible for the state playoffs because of this idiot.
 

robssecondjob

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Doug Beerabelli said:
 
 
2nd grade girls lacrosse...
I hate people.
 
I was just reviewing our weekly league infractions report and see a U8 girls coach (not one of mine thank goodness) was suspended for persistent dissent.  Second grade girls soccer. 
 

garlan5

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this doesnt rank anywhere near the level of postings above but I thought I'd share.  A dad coach on another t-ball team that I coached against last week decided to enforce some of his own "home field" rules per say. He tells the head coach that we can't use regular hard baseballs and instead we will be using a rubberized baseball instead.  Then when we start batting he tells us that we are only allowing 3 pitches then we utilize the tee.  Our normal policy is we throw 5 pitches then we move on to the tee.  His reasoning this will allow the kids to bat more.  Our games are an hour long and usually we bat twice around and field twice before its over.  His dumb ass rule didnt get us to bat more at all. My kids were peppering the ball all over the field.  I"m surprised nobody got hurt using the rubber ball.  I understand a baseball is harder and could potentially hurt much worse but they are now standing around expecting a slow grounder from a heavy baseball.  Instead they might catch a screaming much lighter and faster rubberized baseball to the mouth.  To top it off this guy asked us to not let our "catcher" throw the ball back to the pitcher and have a coach throw it back.  I mean isn't the whole point of putting kids on the field at 4 and 5 years old just to get them to learn where to stand and what to do. You know, learn the basics.   
 

Cumberland Blues

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robssecondjob said:
One of the Division 2 parents that was most vocal about wanting a Division 2 player to be moved up approached me with, "You know you people have destroyed our team by taking our best player.  That is very unfair to the Division 2 players...". 
 
So their kid wasn't the kid who got bumped up, eh?
 

HomeBrew1901

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First night of try outs last night for our U8 and U10 Teams, for the most part the tryouts go off without a hitch however....
 
The coach of our premier/division 1 U9 team tells me that there are 2 kids that shouldn't be on his team with legit reasons and that if he has to he will go into next year with 10 players (8v8).  I have to tell him no that won't be happening, he can select the final 2-3 players but we won't be cutting kids so he can carry a roster of 10.  He was OK with that and understood.
 
I get a call this morning from him that his team manager, who also happens to be our league registrar, is so concerned about her son who is ranked 3rd from the bottom won't make the team that she has been basically harrassing another family about whether or not their son will be playing in the fall because he also plays football.  The team manager insists that her son is a goalie because she feels that is the only way he makes the team even though he has told the coach that he is afraid of the ball hitting him in the face while playing the field.  So now we have a team and league official harrassing a family and about to be informed by the coach that she will no longer be the team's manager next season. 
 
She also tried to use some weird logic to get me to hand over all the coaches evaluations and scores from last night and that she would make the teams.  Had to tell her I already had the spreadsheet and formulas made up so all she had to do was send me the names and try out numbers and I would take it from there.
 
FUN FUN FUN  I can't wait until we make the teams.
 

Heinie Wagner

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HomeBrew - does your club have travel/premier and rec?  Our hoops club is just travel 4-8, and even with that, it's tough enough trying to find board members where you can be sure their kids will make teams.  I can't imagine having to deal with parents who are the registrar or whatever from the time their kid is 4 or 5 and then by 9 their kid is not going to make the team their parents want them to make so you have a ticked off board member or a board member quitting.
 
I can see the logic in having travel/rec in the same club, but I'm sure glad our club is not like that.  
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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Doug Beerabelli said:
My younger brother regaled with this tale over the weekend (more coach than parent, but a good one).   He coaches his second and fourth grade daughters in lacrosse (separate teams).   They play jamborees against other towns.   2nd grade team has a game vs. next door town.   There's a rule that defenders have to stay within a stick length of who they guard, and not pack into the front of the goal area.  A safety rule for the girls.  Can't shoot until three passes completed.   Apparently, after his team would make the pass minimums, to other coach would yell something like "RED", and all his team would suddenly pack their players in front of the net in violation of the rule to block any shot.  Refs are usually lower HS lax players, who aren't fully aware of the rule, or aren't assertive enough to call it.   After a bunch of times, my brother confronted the other coach, who stated "It's not technically against the rules," which was wrong.  My brother says to him, "Oh, I get it.  This is all about winning a second grade girls lacrosse game." They got into it a little bit.  Refs finally started calling the violation.   He also thinks the team played 4th graders in the second grade game.
 
2nd grade girls lacrosse...
 
I think that white, suburban parents view lacrosse as the last bastion of white, suburban domination, and it makes them do stupid things like this and what I described happened to my son's team above.  I coached my kids in a bunch of travel sports for a number of years, and I have never seen the "roster swapping" that seems to go on in lacrosse.  Even for balanced team soccer (BAYS) the refs would line the kids up and do a quick roster/numbers check.  I don't know why this isnt done in lacrosse.  FWIW, it happened again this weekend-opposing B team didnt have enough players, so some A players stayed and played. To the opposing team's credit, the coach did his best to limit the advantage-I think he played the B kids that he had for the whole second half (they were so gassed), and they were the only ones allow to shoot.   It wasnt great, but it was a better result than traveling an hour plus only to be told that the other team didnt have enough kids.  
 

Cumberland Blues

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Heinie Wagner said:
 it's tough enough trying to find board members where you can be sure their kids will make teams.  I can't imagine having to deal with parents who are the registrar or whatever from the time their kid is 4 or 5 and then by 9 their kid is not going to make the team their parents want them to make so you have a ticked off board member or a board member quitting.
 
We're in the process of revamping our LL board since our president is moving away (as is possibly our VP for softball).  I'm VP for baseball and want no part of being in charge of the whole thing - so I recruited the dad of the best player in our league to be president for just this reason - nobody will be able to say this guy's kid made the all-star team just because Dad's president.  That family also has a daughter just starting softball who is probably going to be every bit as good at that as her brother is at baseball - so I got mom on the board too figuring we've locked up 2 spots on the board for the next 6 years or so.  It helps that everyone I know likes these folks too - but removing that possible controversy was a big part of the decision.  One guy who was interested is a fantastic coach - but his kid is a borderline all-star candidate (probably on the team, but not a slam dunk choice) and the optics would be bad if we made him prez and then his kid made the all-star team.
 

Skiponzo

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I coach two teams (8/9 and 11/12). Last week the 8/9 team played a team from our rival league (they're AL we're NL) from the same town. We've played most of the other teams and pretty much the coaches over there are good dudes but slightly more competitive. OK by me as long as they're not over the top. However, last weeks we played the Astros and their coach was a complete ass. Once a player struck out looking (my son was the pitcher) and this coach turns and throws his hat as hard as he could to the ground yelling "God Damn it. I told you to swing". An inning later my SS throws a kid out at first on a grounder (the kid slowed as he got to first instead of running through the bag) and this coach starts berating the kid "You gotta fucking run through that bag. How many times do I have to tell you before it gets through your head." Finally, last inning we've scored 3 runs to take a 10-5 lead. He calls time, goes out to the pitcher, grabs the ball forcefully and tells the kids "You're not even trying." Then slams the ball back into his glove and storms off. Kid gets deflated, we score 2 more and win 12-5.
 
I felt really bad for his kids but I've never wanted to win a game as bad as that one.   
 

HomeBrew1901

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Heinie Wagner said:
HomeBrew - does your club have travel/premier and rec?  Our hoops club is just travel 4-8, and even with that, it's tough enough trying to find board members where you can be sure their kids will make teams.  I can't imagine having to deal with parents who are the registrar or whatever from the time their kid is 4 or 5 and then by 9 their kid is not going to make the team their parents want them to make so you have a ticked off board member or a board member quitting.
 
I can see the logic in having travel/rec in the same club, but I'm sure glad our club is not like that.  
In PA it's a little different in New England, most towns don't have a rec program after U8 and it's all travel from U9 up.  However, each team can select what division they should be in based on talent level.  Premier, D1, 2, 3 and 4 which is basically rec.
 
We have 2 teams that cause issues because the team is Premier/D1 level and those are the teams that cause the most drama for obvious reasons.  Most teams are division 2-3 because the township is so small and if you try out you make it.  The two teams that are good enough to be Premier/D1 typically have a "B" team because for some reason the demographics work and there are always 3-4 kids (as evidenced above) where their parents think they are better than half the "A" team.
 

Freddy Linn

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Was (Not Wasdin) said:
 
I think that white, suburban parents view lacrosse as the last bastion of white, suburban domination, and it makes them do stupid things like this and what I described happened to my son's team above.  I coached my kids in a bunch of travel sports for a number of years, and I have never seen the "roster swapping" that seems to go on in lacrosse.  Even for balanced team soccer (BAYS) the refs would line the kids up and do a quick roster/numbers check.  I don't know why this isnt done in lacrosse.  FWIW, it happened again this weekend-opposing B team didnt have enough players, so some A players stayed and played. To the opposing team's credit, the coach did his best to limit the advantage-I think he played the B kids that he had for the whole second half (they were so gassed), and they were the only ones allow to shoot.   It wasnt great, but it was a better result than traveling an hour plus only to be told that the other team didnt have enough kids.  
It's coming soon. Remember that lax is two decades behind youth soccer.
 

robssecondjob

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I was present last night for the blow up noted in the first posting.  Be sure to read the prior posting for the full background. 
 
https://canipitchcoach.wordpress.com/
 
By far the single worst parent display I have ever seen.  My ten year old, who was at the game spectating, said he wasn't sure he wasn't going to able to sleep after seeing it.
 

Heinie Wagner

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That is awful. How does that guy function in life?
 
The pressure parents put on kids in LL is truly horrendous, especially when you have some perspective and realize how little the wins and losses, or homeruns in LL really matter.
 
Shots off the light pole in LL are easy outs on the big field. Kids who were great with a drop 13 bat can't get a BBCOR bat around, and others who struggled to hit pitches thrown from 46' away thrive with the extra distance the pitch has to travel on the big field. 
 
If most towns are anything like mine, some of the best players from LL will go to golf, tennis or some other sport in the spring or choose to specialize in soccer or some other sport, or they just drop sports entirely or may keep playing and just not improve as much as other kids do.
 
The things that are truly important about LL is all the experiences besides the results aspects of the game. Working hard at something to get better, getting along with teammates, sportsmanship, respect for the game, coaches, teammates, sacrificing individual goals for the good of the team etc. 
 

HomeBrew1901

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Heinie Wagner said:
That is awful. How does that guy function in life?
 
The pressure parents put on kids in LL youth sports is truly horrendous, especially when you have some perspective and realize how little the wins and losses, or homeruns in LL really matter.
 
fixed it but agree.
 

Heinie Wagner

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LOL - excellent revision
 
LL takes the pressure on kids to a higher level in our town than the other sports my kids are in (soccer & basketball).  Our town has 4 LL fields in one complex, all very close to each other around one snack shack, so you see a TON of people you know at the games.  Everyone is asking how everyone else's kid is doing, sometimes as if the kids success or failure on the field is a direct reflection of your parenting.
 
Having my second son in it now, who is a very different player (and personality) than my oldest son, it is disgusting how people actually treat you differently depending on how good (or bad) your kid is.
 

robssecondjob

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I have to say this was the first time I have ever had a parent blowup where I truly wondered if the parent in question was going to return to exact "revenge".  Apparently he is the parent in hockey who is trying to start fights in the stands.  11 year old son.
 
My younger son didn't make majors as a ten year old this year and is playing at AAA for the second year.  Many parents talk to me like he is irrevocably broken.  He is currently leading the league is all offensive categories.  He was asked by one of the majors coaches if he wanted to move up mid-year and he said "No, I am on a team".  That is a LL success in my mind.  He put his team over himself.
 

Heinie Wagner

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Great for your son for saying that!
 
Our town won't let 10's play majors.  I think we're lucky to have big enough LL to have 8 teams with 12's and the better 11's. It seems to me like very few 10's really get much out of hitting against the better 12's.  Very few 11's pitch or catch much in majors.

It's better for most kids, at LL ages, to play where they are among the better players than to play up and be in the middle or lower third. Especially if they wouldn't get as many opportunities to pitch/catch by playing up.
 

Skiponzo

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Heinie Wagner said:
LOL - excellent revision
 
LL takes the pressure on kids to a higher level in our town than the other sports my kids are in (soccer & basketball).  Our town has 4 LL fields in one complex, all very close to each other around one snack shack, so you see a TON of people you know at the games.  Everyone is asking how everyone else's kid is doing, sometimes as if the kids success or failure on the field is a direct reflection of your parenting.
 
Having my second son in it now, who is a very different player (and personality) than my oldest son, it is disgusting how people actually treat you differently depending on how good (or bad) your kid is.
 
Right there with you on this. My older son just finished playing his last year in Majors (ages out) and he had 3 hits all year. I assisted coaching on his team and sometimes folks wouldn't even look at me as we left the field as if it was some kind of family shame that he was doing poorly. Contrast this with my younger son playing his first year of kid pitch and he was one of the better players in the league ( I managed his team). Everyone wanted to be my friend. Disgusting is the correct word IMO. 
 

Fred not Lynn

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A little in defense of those who don't say much - sometimes it's an awkward conversation to start with someone who is more a casual acquaintance than a close friend. Sure, it's easy to go over to someone and say, "Hey, Johnny's having a great year!", but sometimes it's hard to talk to someone in a sport environment(especially if you don't really know them outside that environment) when their kid's sport results are kind of an elephant in the room.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Skiponzo said:
 
Right there with you on this. My older son just finished playing his last year in Majors (ages out) and he had 3 hits all year. I assisted coaching on his team and sometimes folks wouldn't even look at me as we left the field as if it was some kind of family shame that he was doing poorly. Contrast this with my younger son playing his first year of kid pitch and he was one of the better players in the league ( I managed his team). Everyone wanted to be my friend. Disgusting is the correct word IMO. 
Disgusting is a great word and I just absolutely do not understand parents.
 
Same team that I've been discussing above, they are a D1/Premier team U10 and in Central PA at that level there is no equal playing time because you are playing for the "good of the game" as opposed to development at D2 and below. 
 
This team's coach alienated a pain in the ass parent and she pulled her kid off the team leaving him with 10. Another kid that try out wise could have made the team decided that they didn't want to make the jump to rec to premier under this coach.  Called the parent of a player he didn't want on his team because he's overweight and not in great shape.... Mrs. A a spot opened up on the X, since your son was on the team last year I wanted to give you the option of playing on that team or on the "B" team he's rostered on.  Big difference is that playing time is earned and not guaranteed because of the level so your boy may not play much."  Her response... "That's Ok, I want him on X." 
 
Personally, I would want my 9 year old kid on the team where he's going to get the chance to play but that isn't my call here.
 
Called the coach and he bitched about having the kid on the team and asked if he could carry 10.  Nope.  Then complained that it wasn't fair to the other kids on the team.  Told him, look gave the parents the option and that you have no obligation to play him, it's done.  His response was that he's going to call the parents and advise them to put him on a fitness and nutrition plan.  Ummmm... yeah good luck with that. 
 
Fucking perspective people
 

twothousandone

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Fred not Lynn said:
A little in defense of those who don't say much - sometimes it's an awkward conversation to start with someone who is more a casual acquaintance than a close friend. Sure, it's easy to go over to someone and say, "Hey, Johnny's having a great year!", but sometimes it's hard to talk to someone in a sport environment(especially if you don't really know them outside that environment) when their kid's sport results are kind of an elephant in the room.
I hear you, and since I am a bit of an introvert, that might describe me. EXCEPT, I've been around enough youth sports that I don't want to even nod in the direction of that bullshit. "I love the way you keep hustling out there." "It was kind of your son to help my son get the catching equipment on." "You were the first one to put the rally cap on." "I love the way your daughter is always smiling."

The problem is defining sports results as sports excellence. Making it to every game, improving as the season goes on, being a good teammate are all sports results.

Damn, this thread makes me angry. (But not at you, Fred.)

HomeBrew1901 said:
at that level there is no equal playing time because you are playing for the "good of the game" as opposed to development at D2 and below. 
 
Personally, I would want my 9 year old kid on the team where he's going to get the chance to play but that isn't my call here.
I get that, even if it seems too young, just showing up doesn't earn playing time. It's an effort to be a meritocracy. But, as you suggested, other than the best kids who, be definition, won't sit, every other kid is better served playing down. What does one say to the last kid on the bench when try-outs come around next year, and four "B" kids beat him out? And everyone knows it's because the other kids got to play the previous year. It's a bad phi,osphy, and it encourages the ding-dong parents and coaches.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Jul 13, 2005
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Results? Screw results under 15 - it's all about learning "process"...
 
If you can get a 12 year old to understand the concept of process over results, you've done a LOT to forward his future athletic career.
 

Heinie Wagner

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HomeBrew1901 said:
Fucking perspective people
 
Perspective? for a team of 9 year olds where some of the players aren't going to play "for the good of the game".  Safe to say perspective is nowhere to be found.
 

Heinie Wagner

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twothousandone said:
I get that, even if it seems too young, just showing up doesn't earn playing time. It's an effort to be a meritocracy. But, as you suggested, other than the best kids who, be definition, won't sit, every other kid is better served playing down. What does one say to the last kid on the bench when try-outs come around next year, and four "B" kids beat him out? And everyone knows it's because the other kids got to play the previous year. It's a bad phi,osphy, and it encourages the ding-dong parents and coaches.
 
In my time coaching and watching my kids play travel sports, it seems rare to see kids just show up at practice, unless there is an issue like coaches not engaging them, some issue at home (like divorce) or confidence issue, bullying etc, kids that age who tryout and make a travel A team like to play hard, they like to run, they like to compete.  If they're not, the coach needs to figure out why.
 
I agree, unless you're getting outstanding coaching in practice and you won't get that on the B team, you're better off on the B team w/playing time than on an A team and not playing.  Why coaches want players on their team that they won't play at that age level is beyond me. Is there some great prize for winning at that level rather than developing players and people?
 

Heinie Wagner

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Sorry if that was coming on too strong, I want to strangle someone when I hear stuff like "this is travel" or "It's not fair to the better kids" used to justify bad adult behavior, like putting wins over player/people development and having fun at those young ages.
 
At that age, for most kids, it's more about who is older or more physically mature than who is really skilled or showing the things that are going to make them more likely to be the better player in the years to come. Giving the bulk of the coaching attention and playing time to kids based on who gets you wins is something I hate to see.
 

Doug Beerabelli

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Yeah, Heinie is a little sensitive about travel ball.  :)  We've had plenty of off-SoSH discussions on such matters.  
 
In defense of it, I think as long as the coaches and programs are clear up front about the goals and emphasis for the particular season, it's on the parents (with consultation with the players) to decide if that works for their kids.   And it's not necessarily an "either/or" zero sum game on "playing to win/player development."   I'll use our travel baseball team as an example - we played a lot of games (We'll do about 50, but about 20% of those are playoffs), and batted the entire order, sometimes reversing it, pitched everybody at least once, but 7 of 12 guys pitched consistently (2 of the other 5 were our catchers), and all players were in the field at least 2/3s of game.   Kids played at least 2 positions in field, many 3-4.  When playoffs hit, the roster rules change, and we strategically have subs vs. batting everybody, and go for the wins a bit more, although all will get in.  I'm sure there's plenty to criticize in those previous two sentences (ex - we decided, with a consult with parents, to do two leagues instead of just one, leading to more games and less practices = less developmental) - next year the team will only do one league, which should result in about 30-35 games total with tournaments.
 
The problems with the above are   a) coaches and programs don't always communicate well with parents up front on plans and expectations, b) coaches often say one thing, do another in too extreme a manner, c) parents hear what they want to hear, then get mad when things don't go the way they like.   It's very, very hard to be 100% consistent as a coach throughout a season, especially as circumstances change due to injuries or player behavior, but the coach has to try.    I don't think parents necessarily appreciate or understand that all the time.
 
And no one is making any kids do the travel thing.   There are  local/fun/more developmental programs for each sport in each season (baseball, basketball), or different levels of team quality/goals within a program (soccer, lacrosse), so there is some choice.   The problem is insecurity in parents about not having their kids participate at the highest level possible, even if playing "down" might actually be better for the player from a developmental standpoint.   Guilty as charged here, although I'm fighting it hard.  There's somewhat of a legit concern that local coaching won't be as good as the the travel coaching, and that the less reps/practices at the local level stunts the development in comparison to travel programs, or perhaps that they jeaopardize the kid's chances of making school teams later in life if they leave or opt out of the travel feeder programs, but if size/player growth is the most determinitive factor in player success early, then a parent should be confident that where they kid plays at this level doesn't matter.   It'll all come out in the wash was players are more fully grown (thus evening out the early size advantage) and there's hopefully unbiased non-parents coaching at the higher/older levels, and players will be chosen for teams based on merit. 
 
Yes, the previous sentence is somewhat of a unicorn, but one can hope!
 
I am pretty sure my son is going back to rec hoops after a difficult and disappointing town travel team experience last winter.   I have wrestled with how to deal with the situation (try to get a different coach or influence program to change how it does things vs. merely voting with our feet and leaving), but my kid right now doesn't really want any part of it if things don't change, and that's the first question and last answer.  It needs to be fun, first and foremost.   He loves baseball, so he has fun within the more demanding environment, but for soccer and hoops, there's no payoff for forcing him into a miserable situation for the wrong reasons.   I'm looking forward to getting off the travel sports hamster wheel for a season if that's how it works out.
 

Heinie Wagner

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Doug Beerabelli said:
The problems with the above are   a) coaches and programs don't always communicate well with parents up front on plans and expectations, b) coaches often say one thing, do another in too extreme a manner, c) parents hear what they want to hear, then get mad when things don't go the way they like.   It's very, very hard to be 100% consistent as a coach throughout a season, especially as circumstances change due to injuries or player behavior, but the coach has to try.    I don't think parents necessarily appreciate or understand that all the time.
 
 
That is gold! so true. My oldest has had the misfortune of too many coaches who fit your "B" point. Even the HS varsity hoops coach who you'd think would have no incentive to BS.
 
I agree that the wishes that it will all come out in the was are mostly unrealistic. When you start giving kids every advantage at 8-9 years old, it adds up, even if some other kids end up being a lot talented in the long run.
 
The other thing is HS coaches get involved with youth programs, even our HS boys hoops coach, who puts in about a 3 out of 10 in terms of effort, goes to 3-4 boys travel 8th grade A team games every year, hangs around for a few younger games too and gets word of mouth about kids who are perceived as being good or not. You'd think that would all be set aside during freshman tryouts, but it's clearly not. Hopefully most HS coaches who get involved do much more good than the bad that's done because of stuff like that.
 
I feel awful for you regarding your son's travel basketball team. My oldest son's situation wasn't nearly that bad, but a poor experience over the whole year with his 5th grade coach is why I got involved with the board (and now dedicate way too much time to the club). It took me until 8th grade to be able to coach him and that was with a basketball resume that very few people have, so good luck if you try to go that route.
 
I honestly think with your town a kid could never play travel and end up playing freshman hoops in HS, so many kids drop out of the sport (especially with that coach), go to private school etc. It would take falling in love with the sports and playing as much he can outside the travel setting, but it could happen.
 

Cumberland Blues

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After our 9-10 LL tournament game today.....first game our team won (we've got mostly 9's on the team so it's been a bit of a struggle), our pitcher had a perfect game and we rolled 10-0 clicking on all cylinders for the first time since the tournament started.  Mercy rule kicked in after 4 so mandatory play rules are waived - but we got everyone in anyway.  The kids aren't even out of the dogpile yet and one of the hyper-competitive parents says to me  "you know we didn't need to use subs today, don't you?" - clearly offended that we hadn't gone for 15-0 or 20-0 apparently. 
 
I told him next time I'd make sure to hold all the subs for the last two innings of a close game.  I mean WTFF...the kids played the game of their freaking lives (there were 3 web-gem worthy plays preserving the perfecto) and this guy is pissed we didn't win 15-0 instead.
 

soup17

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I'm the manager of our one of our league's 10U (rising to 11U in the Fall) travel baseball teams and also the manager of the one of the 9/10 tournament teams.  I have a player who made the tournament team because we only had 12 kids who registered for it (several of the better players who would have played were going on vacations during the 3 weeks of the practices and tournament games). His mom has asked me 3 times since the tournament team was named for feedback on his performance and keeps asking when the travel tryouts will be. She also did not like it when I told her the players only need 1 at bat and 2 innings in the field.  I have successfully pushed her off until after the last tournament game, but she is not going to like what I have to say.  The kid is simply not very interested in baseball and not very good at it.  As but one example, during a game we were losing 6-0 while I was trying to figure out what pitcher to go to next, he says, "Coach! Coach!"  like he had something important to tell me.  When I acknowledged him, he asked if there was a mercy rule. 
 
I am going to have to have this conversation with the mom soon - it will be uncomfortable.  He will not make the Fall travel team and would not have made the tournament team if there were one more kid registered.  I am going to provide her the following feedback verbally (the assistant coaches have seen this and agree with me).  I don't want to give the mom false hope of her son's making the travel team, but I don't want to crush them either.  I'd appreciate any thoughts on how to handle this tactfully (or less painfully), particularly since they live in my neighborhood.
 
General:
 

 

Doesn't seem focused - frequently playing with dirt, water bottles,etc. on bench, not watching the game

 


Needs to run harder/put forth stronger effort, particularly on defense


 


Needs to improve awareness of game situations and be ready to make appropriate plays; don’t hang on to the ball


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Batting

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Work on lower body - driving hips through the ball

 

Needs to set up stance better - knob of bat to catcher's knee, head in proper position

 

Needs to keep head on the ball through the swing - tends to pull head out

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fielding - OF

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Work on drop step, running to where ball is going, lifting glove when he gets to the spot and not before

 

Needs to watch ball into glove - takes eyes off it

 

Needs to set himself up behind ball and get momentum moving through ball 

 

Needs to back up bases and get himself there

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fielding - IF

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Needs to watch ball into glove - takes eyes off it

 

Needs to develop proper footwork in fielding ground balls - get his feet moving rather than sitting back and waiting for the ball to come to him
 

BigJimEd

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Why are you putting her off? Yes, it might be uncomfortable but they deserve feedback and not wait until the season is over.
Have you at least given the kid feedback throughout the season?

Was playing time discuss before the season?


What you said looks good to me. Pretty specific details to work on. If they are open minded enough to listen and want to improve. however, I think that may not be the case here. Thus the likely reason for putting her off.
If she starts getting defensive and argumentative then I'd fall back to general, generic blah and cut it short. No good will come in engaging her at that point.


Try to find something positive to say though no matter how minor.


Edit: and cumby's parent is the typical jackass parent.
 

Heinie Wagner

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What you wrote looks good to me, seems very thoughtful and constructive.  You might want to add something like he isn't as experienced with baseball as most of the players who are at that level and like BigJimEd said, give them something positive, if possible lead with something positive and finish with something positive with all the other stuff in the middle.
 
You could also recommend some resources (batting lessons at a local cage, an instructional video you like or somethings like that) that the player could use.  
 
I've given feedback like this and some parents want to argue - you say Jimmy isn't focused, parent says he is focused, I go with something like "compared to the players who are more successful at this level, Jimmy isn't as focused", but avoiding any direct comparisons to other players. The key is not to get emotionally involved, if the parents disagree with you or don't respect what you say, that's on them, not you.  Good luck.
 
Maybe not your decision, but why take 12 players if one just doesn't fit in with the others? why not 11?
 

soup17

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Jul 15, 2005
242
Thanks, guys.  a couple points of clarification - it is a tournament team that just formed 3 weeks ago and we had a 12 player minimum roster by LL rules.  I had a parents meeting at the first practice where I discussed the playing time requirements.  I haven't had this player on a team before, but he has tried out for my travel team previously.  I sent his parents a positive, but generic note when he didn't make it.  Thanks again for the replies - some helpful things in there that I will be able to use. 
 

BigJimEd

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Jan 4, 2002
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I miss the three weeks before and thought you had been together since last fall.
I will now look for resources to help me with my reading comprehension.

Oh and good luck.