Red Sox sign David Price

PaulinMyrBch

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I'd rather him pitch great, opt out, then the Sox move on and sign the next 29 year old stud and give him crazier money and the same opt out. I'll take the first three years of a bunch of crazy contracts in a row rather than be stuck with one Manny length deal.
 

soxhop411

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Jed Zeppelin

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Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 2m2 minutes ago
The Red Sox will now likely trade one of their starting pitchers and try to recoup prospects lost on the Kimbrel deal.
Translation: the Red Sox will be trading more prospects for another reliever.

I look at the opt-out this way--yes it's not to the team's benefit but is that worth missing out on the player entirely? Because somebody else would give it to him in a heartbeat. Same with Greinke.
 

santadevil

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Sorry if it's been posted, but if Price opts out and becomes a free agent again, the Sox offer him a qualifying offer and then get a compensation pick, assuming he signs elsewhere?

Also, assuming current CBA rules, of course.
Grienke this year would be the better example I guess.
 

chrisfont9

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AlNipper49

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This is amazing how it kind of just got done. Gone are the years of 8000 will he/won't he threads.

The Sox were the main suitors for him according to the media, but you never quite expect it to work out that way.

This will take some time to digest to be sure.
 

TheoShmeo

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The worst case scenario regarding the opt out is that Price is still lights out in year 4 and the Sox are left without an ace if they can't re-sign him at that time or find another ace in the free agent market or through a trade. It's not that he doesn't opt out if he sucks because having him for the full 7 years is the default position; there are no opt outs for teams.

But it's quite possible that either the Sox couldn't get Price without the opt out in the deal or DD became convinced of that...it was just part of the cost of doing business. Or that DD is glad it's there for some of the reasons mentioned above.

Either way, it's hard for me to me upset about something that might help and in the most negative light is just something that they had to swallow to get the deal done.
 

grimshaw

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Or he is worth it but Sox don't have a dire need for an Ace starting pitcher and can use the leftover Price $$ in other areas. Price gets another 6yr 150M contract from someone else and Sox don't miss a beat because they have Edro and Espinoza out pitching 34YO price. In this case it could be a win win, especially if we win another WS in the 3yrs he does spend here.

Really don't see much downside in this deal regarding the opt out. We really need a #1 pitcher right now, that may not be the case in 3yrs.
He could also underperform and come to detest Boston and the media. I can think of a few guys around MLB (Carl Crawford) who would have gotten the hell off their team if given the choice, even if they were leaving money on the table. Stanton may not be too keen in Miami if they are mismanaged into the ground. Obviously most players wouldn't give up those millions, but a precedent could be set.

I love the flexibility regardless and think he will earn his contract.
 

Darnell's Son

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Sorry if it's been posted, but if Price opts out and becomes a free agent again, the Sox offer him a qualifying offer and then get a compensation pick, assuming he signs elsewhere?

Also, assuming current CBA rules, of course.
Grienke this year would be the better example I guess.
This is correct.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Wouldn't surprise me if DD signed Iwakuma and moved Miley. Money doesn't seem to be an issue.
Hmm I wonder how bad does Cueto want to be a red sox muahaha. Who am I kidding I want them to go for broke because I've been a die hard my whole life and I have $100 bet on them when the odds were posted after the series.
 

Jungleland

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He could also underperform and come to detest Boston and the media. I can think of a few guys around MLB (Carl Crawford) who would have gotten the hell off their team if given the choice, even if they were leaving money on the table. Cano may be having second thoughts about Seattle, and Stanton may not be too keen in Miami if they are mismanaged into the ground. Obviously most players wouldn't give up those millions, but a precedent could be set.

I love the flexibility regardless and think he will earn his contract.
I actually did wonder about this. Crawford would have opted out, right?
 

Marbleheader

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I hate it. He's going to hate it here. I hope he pitches well enough to opt out and let someone else overpay for his decline. This has Carl Crawford disaster written all over it.
 

Dogman

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My goodness, this is outstanding.

If he blows out his elbow, that is a lot of cash spent but it will be much more fun than signing three Rich Hills.

Ortiz's last year is going to be a great ride.
 

yecul

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At some point his arm will blow out, will miss a bunch of time and he will likely age pretty poorly at the back end of the deal. That's what the vast majority of pitchers do post-30 now that we can't use steroids, right? I don't think that's controversial to say.

This is a 2016 short-term move. It's hard to see this being nothing but good for 2016 and it ain't my money. These big/long deals are bad values in general. Hard to see Price being the exception.

So, long term bad. They will have to focus on long term prospect outlook to ensure slack can be picked up from dead budget in the back end. Short term this gets the Red Sox back on the map. IMO hiring DD was a little overrated. A couple very simple common sense moves (throwing money being the main weapon of choice) is all the team really needed. He's as good as anyone to execute it and targeted elite talent, which is wise, but ultimately the foundation and core of the team exists and the future is bright with the strong farm system. 2016 will be fun.
 

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The Red Sox do not have an excess of starters. Move Kelly to the pen (crucial IMO) and go with the two kids, plus Buchholz, Porcello and Miley. That's six, which they are going to need.
 

mauf

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It's hard to evaluate this deal without knowing what the club's long-term payroll plans are. If we're going to try to get under the CBT threshold in 2017, it's a terrible deal. If we're going to spend like the Yankees and Dodgers going forward, I guess it's OK.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Keep in mind that opt outs usually involve the potential for more total dollars rather than AAV. So while he'd be walking away from 4/127 and its unlikely anyone will bite at 4/131, he'll opt out if he thinks he can get 5/138. So at that point it would be about total dollars and additional years for the player.

If he pitches like David Price for three years, he's gone and I like the deal even more.
 

grimshaw

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Scherzer was at 7 for 210 signed in his age 30 season and he and Price have the exact same career WAR.
Kind of seems like precise market value, though Price has been more consistently good (6 seasons over 4 WAR in a row, vs 4 for Scherzer).
 

TrotWaddles

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I was absolutely on board with the strategy of refusing to sign 30-plus pitchers to long-term contracts, focusing on rotation depth, and looking for a cost-controlled ace-in-waiting via trade. And if we were going to abandon that strategy, I wish we could have done it a year ago and signed Lester.

That said: It's not my money, Price absolutely improves the team a ton, and I'm excited to be able to root for him. So, screw it. I'll applaud.
This. Just wondering where the checkbook was for Lester.
 

mauf

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It makes me crazy that people are discussing the opt-out clause as though it is good for anyone besides Price.

If Price performs above expectations for the first 3 years, the opt-out wipes out a favorable contract (which could be traded, if you don't want to gamble on Price staying healthy and effective in his mid-30s). If Price performs below expectations, however, we are stuck with him for 7 years. It's a lose-lose proposition for the club, and the only way it's worth doing is if it brings down the total value of the deal. And I doubt that's the case -- this is a lot more money than Scherzer got on a present-value basis (i.e., applying an appropriate discount factor to Scherzer's deferred money), and there's more free-agent pitching talent available than there has been in years.

It's going to be fun to watch Price this year, and there's something to be said for overpaying to get the guy you want most. I understand why other people are excited about this deal. I don't understand why that excitement is causing people to engage in logical contortions to pretend that a clause that is obviously bad for us is somehow good for us.
 

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The Yankees. Without the opt-out the CC Sabathia contract would be off the books right now. I
If they hadn't re-signed him after he opted out, he'd have been off the books four years ago. It's not the opt-out that was regrettable, it was re-signing him to a longer deal.
 

amarshal2

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If they hadn't re-signed him after he opted out, he'd have been off the books four years ago. It's not the opt-out that was regrettable, it was re-signing him to a longer deal.
False. The opt-out was obviously regrettable. They re-signed him for more. Edit: You see? They wanted him on his old contract but they weren't able to keep him at his old contract. They regretted it then and they regret it even more now.

Plus what Maufman said about the trade value that is lost.

This isn't actually a debate. They gave value to the player and received no value to themselves (unless he gave them a big discount for the opt-out). It's not a win for the Red Sox.
 

The Mort Report

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Why is everyone so hell bent on he is absolutely going to be worthless/overpaid when he is 37? While most dont pitch as well late into their 30's, there are plenty that do. I can think of a 37 year old that pitched OK for us in 2004. Sure someone could post against this a list of big name pitchers that failed that late, but its not the rule of thumb

And the more I think about the price tag, its really not bad if the whole contract plays out. A tweet posted up thread seemed to imply 8 mil per win these days. Wasn't it only 3 years ago it was around 5? If in 5-7 years it reaches 13ish mil per win he actually doesn't have to be an ace to earn his contract
 

Pilgrim

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If Price opts out in 2018 they will be shedding about 60 million in payroll with a FA class that includes Harper, Machado, Harvey, and Fernandez

Edit- Donaldson, Cutch, and Kershaw has an opt out too.
 

moondog80

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False. The opt-out was obviously regrettable. They re-signed him for more. Edit: You see? They wanted him on his old contract but they weren't able to keep him at his old contract. They regretted it then and they regret it even more now.

Plus what Maufman said about the trade value that is lost.

This isn't actually a debate. They gave value to the player and received no value to themselves (unless he gave them a big discount for the opt-out). It's not a win for the Red Sox.

Regardless of what you think of the opt out, the value they got was David Price agreeing to come here.