Pats FA Watch: LGBT Back on a 1-year Deal

Three10toLeft

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The idea of Ivory is fun. But the last thing we need is a player with a history of having trouble staying on the field. Or at least staying relatively healthy throughout the year.
 

kenneycb

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He's missed one game in three years. Now how many of those he was banged up for is a different question, but he hasn't had a hard time staying on the field once he left New Orleans.
 

Three10toLeft

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Jesus, that 2017 list is frightening.

The front office will be put under even more pressure than usual to find some diamonds in the rough, considering our draft situation these next couple years.
 

LogansDad

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Haha, Marcus Turnstile. Nice.

2016 list I like Hicks back, maybe Wendell, depending on cost.

2017 will be scary as shit, though. Hope they can get at least a few of the key pieces extended this offseason.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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Chandler [Jones] is gone [in '17]. This may seem like a crazy idea, but I wonder if they'll consider trading him this off season. It would save close to 8 mill against the cap and could net them a much needed draft pick rather than letting him walk for nothing in '17.

I think a GFIN offseason would be totally justified given Brady's age, but I doubt pretty highly we'll ever see one.
 
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( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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Chandler is gone. This may seem like a crazy idea, but I wonder if they'll consider trading him this off season. It would save close to 8 mill against the cap and could net them a much needed draft pick rather than letting him walk for nothing in '17.

I think a GFIN offseason would be totally justified given Brady's age, but I doubt pretty highly we'll ever see one.
Why would anyone trade anything for Chandler? I don't understand what the motivation for the other team would be. Teams arnt just going to do the pats a favor for no reason.
 

m0ckduck

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Question about RB: is Lewis expected back for training camp, or more mid-season-ish, or is too early to guess?

(Seems almost better if he's a mid-season addition, as it's hard to imagine him lasting a full season with his running style).
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Minor nitpick: I think Butler is a 2017 RFA.

2017 list is scary but all our contracted players for that year (minus Mayo/Amendola who will both be cut by then) add up to about 78M in cap commitment. We will have a ton of cap space to work with but big decisions will need to be made.

I would work on extending Collins and Logan Ryan this offseason.
 

dcmissle

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List looks worse than it is, but it's plenty bad. Just underscores magnitude of what's happened here last 16 years. When you hit on drafts, you're scrambling 4 years later. So sustaining this is well beyond drafting well and using FA wisely. As noted above, it is finding UDFAs too.
 

jablo1312

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I doubt they'll make any big splashes into the LB core this off-season. Maybe they'll bring Mayo back on a smaller deal if he can't catch on anywhere, or they just roll with Bostic and Freeny as the 2 back-ups. I don't see that as a pressing area of need.
 

moondog80

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Maybe 2016 is a GFIN year, at least to the maximum degree the Patriots are willing to employ such a strategy?
 

jablo1312

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-Bring back Hicks on a reasonable deal, but I wouldn't overpay for him. He's been good, and even great at times, but there are a lot of quality players competing for playing time on the Pats interior DL. I won't miss Siliga much if goes, but being an RFA I really doubt he gets anything more than the minimum

-Wendell probably will be back to provide options beyond Jackson and Mason at guard, especially with how shitty those 2 and Kline looked at times this season.

-Not going to lose any sleep over Tavon Wilson or Blount walking out the door.

-This has been said elsewhere but a critical part of this offseason will be extending at least two, and hopefully more, of Butler/Ryan/Collins/Hightower/Sheard. They don't need all 5, but those guys can be key defensive cogs for the rest of this decade.
 

dcmissle

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2015 validates staying away from GFIN year. You are one or two games away from injury catastrophes that effectively flush the season. Forget the pats. Look at Dallas and pittsburgh.
 
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We need to focus on extending Collins and Hightower and Butler. Extending someone like Logan Ryan is, IMO, really really low on the priority list compared to those elite players. He hardly rates as very good, never mind elite.
 

lexrageorge

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Offensive tackle is clearly #1, and it goes beyond what we saw against Denver. Vollmer will be 32, and has had injury/concussion issues in the past. And while Solder should be ready to go by training camp, he's also had a history of concussions. And most of the rest of the current OL's are better suited for interior duty (Jackson, Mason, Stork, Andrews, Kline) or the unemployment line (Cannon, Fleming).

They'll need to look at RB. Blount will be 30, which is not a good age for running backs, especially the grinding variety. RB's can fall off a cliff after they reach the wrong side of 30; recall Corey Dillon as exhibit A.

WR/TE should get some attention. Amendola will be 31; Edelman takes a pounding every time on the field, and that can catch up to a player without warning. Relying on LaFell, Dobson, Harper, Martin is not a winning strategy. Chandler was a Class A Bust, and they could use someone to take the pressure of Gronk when near the goal line.

While the needs on defense are not as glaring, it never hurts to add depth there; they were remarkably thin at DB and lucked out that Butler, Ryan, Chung and McCourty stayed healthy all season. Nink and Branch will be 32 next season.

The challenge of addressing those areas of need while having 2 fewer draft picks cannot be understated. It's amazing how much Goodell gets a pass by the press, including the local mediots, despite many egregious examples of his utter lack of competence and leadership.
 

DJnVa

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If you can get at least 3 of those guys (Collins, Hightower, Butler, Jones) signed, then the identity of this franchise will begin to change. This defense could be nasty next year.

I'm really excited to see what they do.

Just wish I was excited about it in 2 weeks though.
 

Reardon's Beard

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Biggest concerns are on offense. Defense might be even better next year given the higher level of experience for the younger guys. Probably moves into solid top five status if Ryan can be consistent and you have solid play from your nickel and dimebacks. Offensive questions:

1) What's the FA market for offensive lineman? I think adding one and drafting will be the key to improving there. Brian Waters was a big find and they could use that kind of presence again.
2) I too thought Chandler would have been the answer for 2TE but alas it hasn't seemed to pan out very much. Who is on the FA list that is plausible?
3) SJax was nice for a couple yards when you needed him. I assume he's gone if we are holding White/Lewis/Bolden and trying to upgrade Blount but am curious as to the views of SOSH.

Give Lynch the Corey Dillon/Randy Moss treatment and sell him on cementing potentially legendary status. If not for the personality I move heaven and earth to make it happen, but even then - maybe? A big reach.
 

MillarTime

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2016: I want Hicks and King back. That's the list.

2017: As noted above they should focus on Hightower, Collins, and Butler, but would also see if Sheard would be open to an extension. Keep Jones for 2016 and then let him walk. Vollmer will be tough call....
 

moondog80

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2015 validates staying away from GFIN year. You are one or two games away from injury catastrophes that effectively flush the season. Forget the pats. Look at Dallas and pittsburgh.

How many more years of Brady (and Belichick, for that matter) do we have though? Even if this just means we keep all the D guys and let some of them walk in 2017, as opposed to say, trading Jones now for a future 1st, I think there should be at least a little bit of (disciplined) disproportionate weight put on 2016.
 

jsinger121

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2016: I want Hicks and King back. That's the list.

2017: As noted above they should focus on Hightower, Collins, and Butler, but would also see if Sheard would be open to an extension. Keep Jones for 2016 and then let him walk. Vollmer will be tough call....
Justin Coleman as well. They will bring back all the ERFA and probably Siliga, Develin, Waddle as RFA's. I'm not sure they bring Tyms back as an RFA but its possible.
 

EL Jeffe

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In terms of immediate needs for 2016, I'd rank them like this:

1) Big, skilled receiving target - whether that's a true TE, a Hernandez type H-Back or a lengthy receiver, the Patriots could use another mismatch player. The ITP guys will have the draft covered, but I'm thinking OJ Howard (TE from Alabama) might be intriguing with the 2nd round pick.
2) OT depth - they aren't realistically drafting someone who can come in and beat out Solder or Vollmer, but they really need a young OT to groom. Cannon is a great story but he's too inconsistent week to week. Fleming never made the Year 2 Leap, and I'm not sure football is his calling.
3) DT - Everyone wants to sign Hicks, but he won't be cheap. Big, explosive DTs don't grow on trees. Maybe this is the year Easley stays healthy, but even then, he's really more of a nickel rusher.
4) RB - I loved what Lewis brought to the table and I expect more of the same in 2016. However, White is limited to being a receiving back and Bolden is probably better at ST than on offense. They could use a true #2. I'm sure Blount could be had for reasonable money, but either way, they need something here.
5) Devin McCourty - I expected more "splash"plays for a player of his ability and contract. A bounce-back year would be nice.

Side note: I'm more optimistic about CB than most here. I thought Coleman looked like a legit #3 CB for most of the year when he was healthy. I'm not saying he's Malcom Butler 2.0, but it's possible he makes a 2nd year jump and plays at a starting CB level. Roberts looked pretty intriguing before hurting his wrist and has the physical skills to compete for a spot.
 

Pxer

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Cannon and Chandler and LaFell seem like no-brainer cuts, yes?

Decline the Mayo option.

Any other cuts stand out? Looks like Amendola is sticking around after all.
 

jsinger121

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Cannon and Chandler and LaFell seem like no-brainer cuts, yes?

Decline the Mayo option.

Any other cuts stand out? Looks like Amendola is sticking around after all.
Cannon and Scott Chandler yes. LaFell doesn't make a ton and its very possible he wasnt fully healthy all year.
 

DJnVa

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I do NOT want to deal Chandler but if there's a way to recoup a first is that a possibility?

I have no idea how deep this draft is though.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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I also think another LB would be important. Even if they extend Hightower and Collins, they are losing Mayo, and the rest of the LB corps are just JAGs.
Not trying to nitpick here, but at some point don't your depth guys kind of have to be JAGs? I'm sure we'd all love starting quality players backing up every starter but that's not realistic. I guess you could argue that not all JAGs are created equal. I would suppose that is comes down to a mix of which positions do you like your JAGs vs. the available options to upgrade. For example, I'd be fine with keeping Freeney and Fleming as next two LBers up if the trade off meant they could significantly upgrade the depth/talent at OT.
 

Stitch01

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Tackles ruined the game yesterday and Solder and Vollmer aren't super likely to play 16 games each and Im not sure how many seasons each of them are still around for. So getting an NFL caliber tackle, preferably a young one that they can develop into a starter, seems like the highest priority. They need to get better on the inside as well, but they at least have young players who flashed there and might be able to push Josh Kline. Given guards can be found in the mid rounds of the draft, adding some depth there seems prudent. This hasn't been a good offensive line for several years even when they won it all last year, getting to even an average offensive line should keep the offense at an elite level and, if they get banged up at the skill positions, prevent the offense from being one of the worst units in the league like we saw for the last month of the regular season this year.

They need another TE for when Gronk gets bruised up or for games like yesterday where the spread offense is getting Brady killed. Cloning Gronk would be ideal, but since that seems like a long shot. at least another guy who isn't a complete zero at either blocking or pass catching or who is at least good at one of the two aspects.

After that there are a lot of nice to haves. An upgrade on LaFell who can make plays on the boundaries (Dobson not panning out has really hurt here). An upgrade at corner so that Ryan is the third CB and someone like Coleman is depth, not sure this defense would have held up if Butler missed any time this year. Always can use interior pass rush, although the team has done a nice job upgrading the front seven in season the last two years.

But offensive line was the unit that wasn't good enough this year, get that to a league average unit or better and this offseason will be a success.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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We need to focus on extending Collins and Hightower and Butler. Extending someone like Logan Ryan is, IMO, really really low on the priority list compared to those elite players. He hardly rates as very good, never mind elite.
You don't just look to extend the best players. It's all about value for cost. Ryan is a solid second corner who hasn't made much money in the league and might be willing to take a pretty reasonable deal. That's exactly the type of player you might want to extend.
 

Stitch01

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Chandler [Jones] is gone [in '17]. This may seem like a crazy idea, but I wonder if they'll consider trading him this off season. It would save close to 8 mill against the cap and could net them a much needed draft pick rather than letting him walk for nothing in '17.

I think a GFIN offseason would be totally justified given Brady's age, but I doubt pretty highly we'll ever see one.
Its not a crazy idea. Extending all of them is going to be hard and he's the guy to move unless they think Collins or Hightower just are going to have crazy demands.

That '17 list is why the hysteria in many places (not here) about not signing Revis last offseason was so laughable. That contract given that '17 list would be real bad right now.
 
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You don't just look to extend the best players. It's all about value for cost. Ryan is a solid second corner who hasn't made much money in the league and might be willing to take a pretty reasonable deal. That's exactly the type of player you might want to extend.
Well yes, I realize that. I just think Logan Ryan is overrated a bit on this site and others, and I don't think he will be all that difficult to extend, so I don't count it as a high priority. If he wants to sign for a good deal, swell. If I'm the patriots, I'm not putting it at the top of my to-do list.
 

SoxVindaloo

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Great thread, helps to get the mind off the BS from yesterday. In order of priority:
1) Young swing tackle with future starter potential. I assume this is our 2nd round pick. Many of you have laid out the case why this makes a ton of sense. Vollmer is 32 and both he and Solder have had injury issues. And you cannot be forced to rely on Cannon for anything ever. Fleming is not very good but at times this season he seemed to acquit himself better than Cannon (not in his 2 snaps yesterday though).
2) A true dependable outside WR. My biggest disappointment this year was how incredibly small LaFell was when they needed him the most down the stretch. The ability to run deep, while a slight need is way less important to me than someone who can run the outside routes and fight and win on the 50/50 balls. A younger version of Anquan Boldin would be perfect, whoever that is. Hell I'd rather have 100 year old Boldin himself than LaFell.
3) A legit RB, the lack of any credible running game made all the Qb pressure problems worse. Would have still been rough but even 3.5 YPC would have made some difference. Maybe a quality FA on a semi-reasonable contract is the answer or maybe this is also a draft solution. Lewis was great but he does not have a good track record for lasting 16 games.
4) A move TE. Dump Chandler and find this guy hopefully in the draft. We seem to have Williams in the blocking backup role. As mentioned above the ability to scare defenses with personnel mismatches was at its best when our own Murderer was partnering with Gronk. He was an exceptional talent, but even someone like Owen Daniels with his shiftiness would be a big improvement. Preferably this comes from the draft but I'm not sure what that class looks like this year.
5) G-- If the money is there pay a short term hit for a veteran G with a mean streak like Waters a few years ago or Evan Mathis this year. Dump Kline before he gets expensive, probably Wendell also. Let the kids fight for one spot when all are healthy.
6) Depth at CB.
7) Another LB--Maybe old friend Akeem Ayers could be brought back as there was some talk about him being a scheme misfit with the Rams. He was a versatile extra LB.
8) Try your hardest to extend Collins and Hightower, probably means Jones gets to walk after 16.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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I think OT is even more important than it already seems. Solder hasn't exactly covered himself in glory the last two years, IMO. For a stud first round LT, he's been fairly inconsistent, even bearing in mind the maladies he's dealt with.

Obviously Solder is leagues better than the junk we ran out there this season (even Vollmer wasn't great and the injuries behind that dip in performance don't make me feel better). I hope BB and the gang go for an LT in free agency, in round two of the draft and maybe another project type in rounds 4 or 5.
 

Shelterdog

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I don't want to be a Debbie downer here but it's pretty unlikely that the Pats are going to add any sought after players in free agency. They don't have a ton of cap space in 2016 and they need to keep a fair amount open for 2017 and beyond (Hightower, Chandler Jones, Sheard, Nink, Vollmer, Cannon, Ryan, Harmon, and Collins are all free agents in 2017). There just isn't going to be money available to, for example, sign veterans who you could expect to be high end starters at OG or WR.

That said I'm incredibly optimistic about the team next year assuming Brady maintains his current level of play. There's going to be pretty remarkable continuity--every single starter from yesterday is back if the pats want them back and Hicks is the only high quality free agent (Ebner and Wilson and Wendell are nice enough but we can do without them). Even without new bodies the oline should be better with more experience. There aren't that many aging players (Brady, Vollmer, Nink, Edelman, Amendola and Branch are the only defensive or offensive players who will 30; Mayo is probably a goner but he didn't give us much this year). Yeah we don't have a first but we will have a boatload of later picks including a late third for Revis and hopefully we find a couple of contributors somewhere. You'd expect some of the younger guys (Flowers and Roberts and Richards and Easley and Grissom) to start contributing.
 

dcmissle

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How many more years of Brady (and Belichick, for that matter) do we have though? Even if this just means we keep all the D guys and let some of them walk in 2017, as opposed to say, trading Jones now for a future 1st, I think there should be at least a little bit of (disciplined) disproportionate weight put on 2016.
Who knows? But they are aiming for muti-generational success, and that is contrary to all in for any particular year.

Almost every consistently well run team has its own version of what we are facing in 2017. It may be the year before, or the year after or the year after that, but they are facing it.

The pivot point obviously is Brady. Everything after him is a foggy mist at this point. But I have no idea when the decline starts and how steep the slope will be.

If you go all in, you better connect. Health vagaries make that next to impossible. And even if they didn't, they are no guarantees they would even emerge from the AFC next year. You can assume there will be growing pains in Denver, and you might assume Cincy will always be Cincy, but Pittsburgh may be a couple of clicks away from the best team if it can take care of that secondary.

And then, of course, there is the other conference.
 

moondog80

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I do NOT want to deal Chandler but if there's a way to recoup a first is that a possibility?

I have no idea how deep this draft is though.
Aren't they effectively barred from trading up for a first rounder for this year as a result of deflategate? I believe if they do, they give up that pick and keep their own (29). A silly, punitive clause that is all about the PR of keeping them off the first day of the draft completely (trading up is not a loophole around the punishment since you need to give up assets to do so), but it is what it is.
 

grimshaw

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Offensive line - obviously. Then RB, TE and WR in that order.

I would go RB over WR as #2 to take pressure off of Edelman and Amendola and prevent them from getting creamed. I would love Forte, but I think Ivory is a more realistic option - though I'm pretty clueless on what either would cost.

Another good blocking TE is my #3 priority, as Chandler seemed like a non-factor.

I don't think they can wait a year or two for a WR to develop from the draft, so I'm hoping this is one of those odd years they spend some money either there or at RB.
 

DJnVa

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Aren't they effectively barred from trading up for a first rounder for this year as a result of deflategate? I believe if they do, they give up that pick and keep their own (29). A silly, punitive clause that is all about the PR of keeping them off the first day of the draft completely (trading up is not a loophole around the punishment since you need to give up assets to do so), but it is what it is.
Is that actually true?

I never heard that.
 

AB in DC

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2017 is also Brady's age 40 season.
I think we have to view 2016 as the end of the Brady-Belichick window. You can't count on a 40-year-old quarterback to play at the same level as today, and that 2017 UFA list is scary. Combine that with the loss of two draft picks (ugh) that could help replace the UFAs and you're looking at some down years coming up very soon.
 

dcmissle

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If they get a first, they are losing the highest one under the penalty.

And they are not getting a first for Jones. The bullshit at the police station alone guarantees they are not getting a first for him.
 

DJnVa

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If they get a first, they are losing the highest one under the penalty.

And they are not getting a first for Jones. The bullshit at the police station alone guarantees they are not getting a first for him.
Yeah, stepping aside from the Jones thing, I didn't know that they give up the highest first rounder they have.

That, in a way, also hurts other teams that may want an asset NE would be willing to deal, but now the Patriots effectively can't do it.
 

moondog80

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Who knows? But they are aiming for muti-generational success, and that is contrary to all in for any particular year.

Almost every consistently well run team has its own version of what we are facing in 2017. It may be the year before, or the year after or the year after that, but they are facing it.

The pivot point obviously is Brady. Everything after him is a foggy mist at this point. But I have no idea when the decline starts and how steep the slope will be.

If you go all in, you better connect. Health vagaries make that next to impossible. And even if they didn't, they are no guarantees they would even emerge from the AFC next year. You can assume there will be growing pains in Denver, and you might assume Cincy will always be Cincy, but Pittsburgh may be a couple of clicks away from the best team if it can take care of that secondary.

And then, of course, there is the other conference.

It's a matter of degree. And they've done it before. I'm not talking about signing Mario Williams, or a Herschel Walker/Ricky Williams trade. But Corey Dillon, Randy Moss/Wes Welker, and the year they traded up for both Jones and Hightower all were moves tilted a little bit toward the now.
 

Devizier

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Of the current free agents:
I would make the (minimum) qualifying offer to Coleman and King.
I would hope the Patriots sign Hicks and Ebner.

Mayo is a post-June cut ($7.6M savings) unless he agrees to a dramatic restructure of some sort
Amendola could be cut, too ($5.6M savings) -- he's getting up there in years and am not sure if he's valuable enough for the back end of his contract
Chandler was terrible this year, but the cap savings are pretty meager if he's cut ($1M hit, $1.5M savings)

I think Lafell stays -- he is fine as the third/fourth wide receiver (and is paid like one).

Even with the cuts, the Patriots don't have a lot of cap room. However, they don't have a lot of immediate needs, either. I imagine that extensions for Collins, Hightower, and possibly Jones, could all be used to lower their 2016 hits. We might see them reach for a luxury signing (Wilkerson?!? Jeffrey?). I sure couldn't complain.
 
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I want Tennessee's second rounder. One pick away from a 1st round pick. I'll give them our compensatory 3rd and Chandler Jones.

Edit specifics.
 

jsinger121

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Of the current free agents:
I would make the (minimum) qualifying offer to Coleman and King.
I would hope the Patriots sign Hicks and Ebner.

Mayo is a post-June cut ($7.6M savings) unless he agrees to a dramatic restructure of some sort
Amendola could be cut, too ($5.6M savings) -- he's getting up there in years and am not sure if he's valuable enough for the back end of his contract
Chandler was terrible this year, but the cap savings are pretty meager if he's cut ($1M hit, $1.5M savings)

I think Lafell stays -- he is fine as the third/fourth wide receiver (and is paid like one).

Even with the cuts, the Patriots don't have a lot of cap room. However, they don't have a lot of immediate needs, either. I imagine that extensions for Collins, Hightower, and possibly Jones, could all be used to lower their 2016 hits. We might see them reach for a luxury signing (Wilkerson?!? Jeffrey?). I sure couldn't complain.

Coleman and King are ERFA's which means they are not really free agents. they just have to offer a contract to them. Its likely all the ERFA's will be tendered.