I thought that was "confounded"Is "unfounded" one of them college-boy words for makin' stuff up?
I bet they do but I would venture to guess that Philly is insisting on Brooklyn pick plus a player (probably a guard like Smart or Rozier) and Ainge is saying "no thanks".Blakely reporting that the Celts still want Okafor.
Nope. Not even a "no thanks". Just hang up before they even finish the word "Brooklyn"I bet they do but I would venture to guess that Philly is insisting on Brooklyn pick plus a player (probably a guard like Smart or Rozier) and Ainge is saying "no thanks".
After last winters trade deadline I expected Okafor to be a Celtic by training camp. I still expect this to happen once both sides cave some.Blakely reporting that the Celts still want Okafor.
But what do you think Colangelo wants? Smart + Cs 2018 first?After last winters trade deadline I expected Okafor to be a Celtic by training camp. I still expect this to happen once both sides cave some.
There is no chance that Colangelo is holding out for a Nets pick. I don't believe that for a second.
Young veteran stability. He knows the Nets picks are off limits in an Okafor deal. Bradley/Smart seem to be the obvious choices then the discussion goes to which side receives additional assets which is where it gets tricky. I expect Bradley to be moved within next 12 months one way or another with his massive raise the first one coming due.But what do you think Colangelo wants? Smart + Cs 2018 first?
I love the idea that Bradley + Rozier could get it done (it's summer league and what does that mean). But since I love it, that's probably not a fair trade. What's a fair price?Young veteran stability. He knows the Nets picks are off limits in an Okafor deal. Bradley/Smart seem to be the obvious choices then the discussion goes to which side receives additional assets which is where it gets tricky. I expect Bradley to be moved within next 12 months one way or another with his massive raise the first one coming due.
I would never include Rozier.....one of the reasons Bradley is replaceable is due to Rozier's presence. He's on a cheap deal and looks like a spitting image of Reggie Jackson's growth curve with similar games.I love the idea that Bradley + Rozier could get it done (it's summer league and what does that mean). But since I love it, that's probably not a fair trade. What's a fair price?
Okafor is signed for another 3 years. Bradley is a great player but I think Okafor is a superior player. I think you would have to do Bradley + some asset.I would never include Rozier.....one of the reasons Bradley is replaceable is due to Rozier's presence. He's on a cheap deal and looks like a spitting image of Reggie Jackson's growth curve with similar games.
Being impartial I'd say that swapping Okafor and Bradley helps both teams lineup balance with similar on-court production albeit in very different ways. Anything else to me would Be fodder.
I am thinking Avery Bradley and Demetrius Jackson for Okafor and Korkmaz. Celtics get another "draft and stash" and the Sixers get two guards to fit in with all of their front court playersI would never include Rozier.....one of the reasons Bradley is replaceable is due to Rozier's presence. He's on a cheap deal and looks like a spitting image of Reggie Jackson's growth curve with similar games.
Being impartial I'd say that swapping Okafor and Bradley helps both teams lineup balance with similar on-court production albeit in very different ways. Anything else to me would Be fodder.
To be fair, he was the only one locally who had the Celtics picking Jaylen Brown.Guys, it's Blakely.
Noel would interfere with their plans next summer because it's free agent time. Teams like picking up their big men in transactions that cost nothing but money, it's the reason for the disconnect between trade value and free agent deals. So acquiring Noel would mean Boston tying up a max/near max slot next summer for a roleplayer when what they want is stars. The only center that I would have any interest in on the Philly roster is Embiid, because when healthy he looked like he could play the modern game (the when healthy is obviously a huge caveat) and he doesn't hit free agency until the summer of 2018.In terms of contracts and control, wouldn't Noel be the more natural return for Bradley? The Sixers get a 3 and D role player to complement Simmons' playmaking skills. The Celtics pick up a younger rim defender who can replace Amir Johnson should his contract be used as the salary ballast in another move.
Would Noel's cap hold as a restricted free agent be significantly higher that Bradley's 2017-2018 salary? Couldn't they potentially sign a FA next summer and then use Noel's Bird Rights to go above the cap to extend him?Noel would interfere with their plans next summer because it's free agent time.
I don't understand the spacing or "his obsolete game" concerns as Okafor already showed a mid-range face-up jumper as a rookie which is likely able to expand further since he is still 20-years old with good mechanics. Defensively his feet are fairly nimble and I'd like to see him in a functional system outside of his 19-year old rookie season to write him off. This is far from a finished product.I just dont want Okafor. Why make this move? His game is rapidly becoming obsolete in the NBA. Teams will just put him in wing pick and roll coverages all day long and he provides no rim.protection or spacing on offense.
I wouldnt trade a first team.all.nba defender w a 2/16 contract for him nor a backup PG who you need to be a ballhandler on the second unit for a dinosaur. No no no
But wasn't Okafor putting up stats on a garbage team that was actively trying to lose to ensure the best odds at a #1 pick.I don't understand the spacing or "his obsolete game" concerns as Okafor already showed a mid-range face-up jumper as a rookie which is likely able to expand further since he is still 20-years old with good mechanics. Defensively his feet are fairly nimble and I'd like to see him in a functional system outside of his 19-year old rookie season to write him off. This is far from a finished product.
I mean he was a scoring machine once Philly traded for Ish Smith and he was able to actually get the ball in his spots.....I can't even imagine the heat Ainge and Jaylen are going to face when he DOESN'T even show nearly this much in his rookie year. Yikes!!
Who was actively trying to lose? The players sure weren't. That was the management putting that product on the floor. From what I saw having so many non-NBA players on the floor with Okafor negatively affected his performance. Despite this hindrance I was impressed by his rookie year unlike many others here. He'd immediately be one of our two best shot creators on the roster which is still a huge hole in our lineup.But wasn't Okafor putting up stats on a garbage team that was actively trying to lose to ensure the best odds at a #1 pick.
It isn't really fair to compare the situations that Okafor and Jaylen have in their respective rookie years.
Noel's cap hold is only $5.8 million, which is less than what Bradley makes. So, yes, trading for Noel actually opens up more cap space for next summer should they choose to go that route.Would Noel's cap hold as a restricted free agent be significantly higher that Bradley's 2017-2018 salary? Couldn't they potentially sign a FA next summer and then use Noel's Bird Rights to go above the cap to extend him?
$5.8M is his qualifying offer not his cap hold.Noel's cap hold is only $5.8 million, which is less than what Bradley makes. So, yes, trading for Noel actually opens up more cap space for next summer should they choose to go that route.
I understand what you are saying; I am just trying to point out a difference in situations (not to mention positions and team responsibilities).Who was actively trying to lose? The players sure weren't. That was the management putting that product on the floor. From what I saw having so many non-NBA players on the floor with Okafor negatively affected his performance. Despite this hindrance I was impressed by his rookie year unlike many others here. He'd immediately be one of our two best shot creators on the roster which is still a huge hole in our lineup.
Yeah that is a fair comp however you have to factor that Okafor at 20 is Jefferson at 28. He has room to grow as he began to show last year with his perimeter face up offense. I certainly don't want to empty the farm to acquire Okafor as I feel we can receive a better value on a cost-controlled contract for 3 years to replace Sullinger. I also don't need him to be a better player than Brown in 3 years......I hope he isn't but that really doesn't have anything to do with acquiring him.He can score, but I really don't see Okafor being much different than Al Jefferson. I think Okafor is a good trade target if the price is right.
I am just not ready to say definitively that Okafor will be a better NBA player than Jaylen in three years as each player has shortcomings to address (we aren't talking about Towns here).
Yes, one reason I want him is that the cost for a talent like his will be relatively inexpensive while receiving immediately production on his rookie deal which isn't always the case. Philly is dying to trade him off because they have 3 centers......one is untradeable due to not having played in nearly 3 years and the other virtually untradeable due to his contract situation......not because they don't like him. He's the only movable one of the three.The best thing I could say about an Onafor trade is that Ainge would almost certainly come out the winner value-wise given Philly's dire situation and Danny's war chest. Then again, Okafor was supposedly a great value pick but a year later his team is dying to pawn him off.
Huh? Okafor right now is not anywhere near as good a player as Al Jefferson was at age 28.Yeah that is a fair comp however you have to factor that Okafor at 20 is Jefferson at 28. He has room to grow as he began to show last year with his perimeter face up offense. I certainly don't want to empty the farm to acquire Okafor as I feel we can receive a better value on a cost-controlled contract for 3 years to replace Sullinger. I also don't need him to be a better player than Brown in 3 years......I hope he isn't but that really doesn't have anything to do with acquiring him.
Sorry, just so I understand understand your position, you think the Celtics would be better in the short term with Okafor (i.e., during his rookie deal)? We all agree he's young, and could improve, but do you think he's an NBA contributor right now on the Celtics, or just someone they'd play for development reasons.Yes, one reason I want him is that the cost for a talent like his will be relatively inexpensive while receiving immediately production on his rookie deal which isn't always the case. Philly is dying to trade him off because they have 3 centers......one is untradeable due to not having played in nearly 3 years and the other virtually untradeable due to his contract situation......not because they don't like him. He's the only movable one of the three.
Huh? Okafor right now is not anywhere near as good a player as Al Jefferson was at age 28.
Who has mentioned this?If Ainge were interested in Brown for Okafor it would be done already.
Yes I feel it would make a tremendous gain to our roster balance in replacing Sullinger's scoring while providing a greater threat offensively while being on a rookie deal for 3 years. It's my opinion that his production was hindered by the Philly structure and not the product of empty numbers. He made tremendous improvement as the year went on despite the obstacles he faced. In a structures system he will be really good and right away.Sorry, just so I understand understand your position, you think the Celtics would be better in the short term with Okafor (i.e., during his rookie deal)? We all agree he's young, and could improve, but do you think he's an NBA contributor right now on the Celtics, or just someone they'd play for development reasons.
You did.Who has mentioned this?Huh? Okafor right now is not anywhere near as good a player as Al Jefferson was at age 28.
Yeah that is a fair comp however you have to factor that Okafor at 20 is Jefferson at 28.
I'm sorry, what? I think some of your assumptions are really bad.Yeah, that's bad math. Like really bad.
Edit: to be more clear, your conclusion is not accurate. Okafor is not a more valuable player than Bradley. Their control is obviously quite different, but almost any metric values Bradley far more than Jahlil. And that's long before adding Rozier into the equation, which balances out some of that control.
What are you optimistic projections for Rozier? I think we need to agree that his stats from Summer league should be thrown out. Is it his mechanics, shot creation? His shooting percentage should also be thrown out based on the level of defense he was up against. I like Rozier but I think he puts up middle tier single digit averages across the season on the second team.I would never include Rozier.....one of the reasons Bradley is replaceable is due to Rozier's presence. He's on a cheap deal and looks like a spitting image of Reggie Jackson's growth curve with similar games.
Being impartial I'd say that swapping Okafor and Bradley helps both teams lineup balance with similar on-court production albeit in very different ways. Anything else to me would Be fodder.
If Jaylen has the rookie season that Okafor did (rate stats), we would be estatic. That's not to say I would trade Jaylen for Okafor. I love what I have seen out of him in SL - explosive, gets to the rim, and an aggressive alpha dog.okafor is a really challenging player to value b/c he is young, has loads of offensive potential but is so so so atrocious defensively. And, he was in a really bad dysfunctional situation so it's a tough guess how much of that is fixable with better coaching & environment. given the youth, risk, uncertainty & potential, my best guess is he is most comparable to a mid-lottery 1st, i.e., if I were Ainge and were offered him for Jaylen brown straight up I'd probably say no, but not before giving it serious consideration & getting Brad's opinion on which player he liked better.
Isn't the case for Okafor that he, unlike most other Celtics, can get and make his own shot inside and from mid range? A decent post game isn't as valuable as it was in the past century, but it's not useless either. Aside from Thomas and Rozier (probably), what other Celtic has the capacity to create their own shot in 2016-2017? Horford, Olynyk, Crowder, Smart and Bradley are complementary players, not creators. Brown might in a year or two, but I doubt that anyone would count on the game slowing down for a 19-year-old rookie.I don't think we should take it for granted that Okafor's offensive game is pretty good. Again, the Sixers context makes it tough to take at face value, but he graded out as an awful offensive player by box score metrics (BPM), plus/minus metrics (RPM, RAPM), and player tracking data (PT-PM).
To reiterate, the context makes it hard to use any of this to bury him, but at the very least, it's an open question whether he can even be a positive offensive contributor right now. Overall, even without any fancy statistical footwork, the Sixers were ten points per 100 possessions better with him off the court, and they didn't exactly have Wilt coming in to replace him.
Let's express your thought another way, how about Boston trade Avery Bradley and Kelly Olynyk to Brooklyn for Anthony Bennet. After all, isn't it worth Avery Bradley to trade from #13 to #1 in 2013? Where someone is drafted is irrelevant. Bradley has more impact that Okafor, and honestly, I think Rozier will end up having a greater impact too.I'm sorry, what? I think some of your assumptions are really bad.
1) Bradley is leaving next year (almost 100% certainty)
2) The Celtics are playing for the 2017 - 2020 seasons
The problem is that the tools aren't really there, and he's the worst possible fit with Horford. If his offense showed any ability to carry the negative defensive impact maybe, but they really don't.The tools haven't gone away