So long as the Devers shoe doesn't drop, this is a classic Dom move - trade the potentially awesome (and possibly worthless) prospect for the very good guy who's already in the majors. As others have noted, this is also about more than 2016.
Red Sox acquire Drew Pomeranz for Anderson Espinoza
- Thread starter johnnywayback
- Start date
It's not a half season. Pomeranz is not a free agent until 2019.
Edit: Or are you saying his emergence the first half of this year?
“@JMastrodonato: Easy to say Pomeranz’s 2.47 ERA is thanks to Petco Park & NL, but ERA+ of 161 ranks 7th in MLB, between Cueto & Fernandez/Syndergaard.”
Yeah, this is a really important point. He seems like a great guy to get, maybe the best available this year.
I thought it was all a convenient cover story whil DD worked the trades. Let's see if he actually makes the start tomorrow as scheduled.
I think these innings concerns are overblown.
2011: 119 IP
2012: 147 IP
2013: 113 IP
2014: 115 IP
2015: 88 IP
2016: 102 IP
2011: 119 IP
2012: 147 IP
2013: 113 IP
2014: 115 IP
2015: 88 IP
2016: 102 IP
Also, no good FA SP this offseason, but a whole bunch in 2018.
This puts us in a much, much better position for the '17 season if Pomeranz can maintain anything like the level he's shown in the first half.
This puts us in a much, much better position for the '17 season if Pomeranz can maintain anything like the level he's shown in the first half.
How many innings can Pomeranz realistically throw this year? The most he's ever thrown in his professional career was 146 -- 4 years ago...
To make a real difference (in the regular season and hopefully playoffs) he'd need to throw ~200 innings. I'm not seeing it happening.
To make a real difference (in the regular season and hopefully playoffs) he'd need to throw ~200 innings. I'm not seeing it happening.
My stomach hurts. I'm terrified our minor leagues is going to be decimated by DD. And all we get is Pomeranz?
DD got fleeced
Got Cardinalsed by the same team in less than a year
Best pitching prospect, top 20 overall
Fleeced
There is panic on Yawkey Way
Got Cardinalsed by the same team in less than a year
Best pitching prospect, top 20 overall
Fleeced
There is panic on Yawkey Way
I like it too. He should help us out for a while, which was most certainly needed.
I'm comfortable going to battle with a rotation of Price, Pomeranz, Porcello, Wright, and Rodriguez. Not necessarily in that order although it wouldn't surprise me if that's the way it ends up shaking out.
Espinoza is a long, long ways away from the majors, and I've had nagging doubts about his body's ability to withstand the rigors of an MLB season. Put simply, he's pretty short for a power pitcher. Sure, he could be Pedro or Johnny Cueto, but I wouldn't bank on it.
Pomeranz makes the team materially better for this season and next.
That said, I really liked Espinoza...
Pomeranz makes the team materially better for this season and next.
That said, I really liked Espinoza...
To be fair, his first half was all-star calibre, while the Sox 4/5 starters were...really, really, really not. So yeah, 'anything like' will be an improvement, and 'consistent with' would give the Sox a strong-enough-for-playoffs 1-4
Getting 2-3 extra starts before 7/31 is also part of the acquisition cost. I still think he might grab Hill also.
Right, and in addition to that, it wasn't clear where any improvement to the back of the rotation was going to come from in the off-season.
Loved Espinoza, but completely understand the trade. He's a long way from Fenway and the Sox desperately needed a starter and hadn't developed any in awhile. Our lack of pitching development has been the major disappointment in our farm. You have to give up prospects to fill your holes. Thankful Benintendi, Moncada, and Devers are still with us. Adding Groome to the mix instantly helps the pitching sitch in the minors again.
Pomeranz is for more than 2016.
Pomeranz is for more than 2016.
Yep, that too. Counting on the pu-pu platter of Clay, Kelly, Owens et al falls into the "fool me once/fool me twice" category
My head stopped spinning and I am actually digging this deal. I doubt DD and company have given up on Erod. So our rotation for next year is going to be Price, Wright, Porcello, Pom, and Erod. The six and seven spots will still be covered by Owens and BJ. All that is left is debating whether or not the Sox should sign EE/JB and signing a few relievers. Then following next year DD goes hard after Fernandez or Harvey. Even if Espinoza fulfills his potential, he is still three or four years away. This move helps to solidify the team this year and into the future.
And, assuming this is the plan, we could have the line up from hell with the additions of Benintendi and Moncada.
Stating the obvious, but it will all come down to whether Pom can be a solid 190+ inning guy in the AL East.
I was afraid Benintendi+ was going to be the return when I saw the headline.
JUST Espinoza? I can live with that. 2.5 cost-controlled years of a decent pitcher could have cost a lot more on this market. Some people think Espinoza is a slam dunk, but I imagine DD must have thought there was some risk to make the move.
JUST Espinoza? I can live with that. 2.5 cost-controlled years of a decent pitcher could have cost a lot more on this market. Some people think Espinoza is a slam dunk, but I imagine DD must have thought there was some risk to make the move.
Think about it this way. We'd be terrified if we dealt a controllable All Star pitcher and got a teenaged, undersized A-ball starter back, no matter how good his statistics have been. SD took on some real risk here, and I can see why their fans don't like it, even if I think a neutral observer would say SD got a great deal by moving a cost-controlled Pomeranz before they had to in a seller's market.
We get to time-shift pitching forward to line up with our position-player core, which is hardly a frictionless transaction.
We get to time-shift pitching forward to line up with our position-player core, which is hardly a frictionless transaction.
Getting a cost controlled, young, solid middle of rotation starter comes with a price. I'm actually pretty bullish on DD apparently getting this done without giving up Moncada, AB, or Devers. This club is firmly in the hunt this year, and likely the next 2. Understand Espinoza's upside, but given this window, and his likely time-table for promotion to MLB, I'm ok with this.
Absolutely. DD is not afraid to look dumb way down the road, I think he's been on both sides of this kind of deal.
This is what exactly Dombrowski was brought in to do. What scares me about Pomeranz is that he's already pitched more innings than he has in any other MLB season.
Honestly, anything in the way of a clear, unequivocal rotation improvement that (a) is more than just a rental and (b) keeps Moncada and Benintendi in the organization, is about the best thing we could have hoped for. Espinoza has awesome potential but there's a long road between here and there. I'm fine with this deal.
On the one hand, I would have liked Pomeranz to show some more consistency before giving up a top prospect for him. This is his career year, after all, and its not too long ago that he was traded for Yander Alonso. On the other hand, Espinoza is very far away from making the team. Still, at least Pomeranz is comfortably south of 30 and has had a "top prospect" pedigree before.
I don't like the move. Would have rather Devers but whatever. I can't see this guy being a top of the line starter.
It's a prospect site. What were you expecting. They still hate DD for the last trade.
They already have a fire DD thread. Sosh only has ten fire John Farrel threads. If SOSH doesn't watch out there will be a new big dog in the Sox message board community.
They could of got him for Margot but our idiot GM traded 3 prospects for a reliever last year. What a joke.
Remember that time they
I was thinking of the handwringing that happened when 18 year old Engel Beltre was shipped to Texas for Gagne. Ye of 40 career MLB at bats.
Do we have anything actually confirmed or just a bunch of people on twitter saying Espinoza and potentially nothing else for Pomeranz.
More I think about it the more I like it. I'm kinda shocked by the DD got fleeced sentiment on here. Everyone knew that the starting pitching market was going to be costly and to get a guy who's pitching like a #2 for an admittedly great prospect but who is till 3-4 years away? I don't think he could have done much better. Throw in the fact that we get two more controlled years and that this is Papi's last stand? Well, if you don't overpay a bit now, when do you?
Yeah, I'm fine with dealing away Espinoza, but I probably would have preferred to hang on to him until the offseason when maybe some more impactful players may be available (Gerrit Cole?)
Of course he's not a top of the line starter. You're not going to get a top of the line starter for a teenager whose ceiling is top of the line starter and who won't get there for at least another 3-4 years if he ever gets there. When you trade prospects for established, cost controlled major leaguers, the guy you get is going to be less valuable than the upside of the guy you give. If that's not true then your trading partner is incompetent.
Who said Pom is even going to be a #2? If he can be a low-end #3, that's great with this offense.
This is is what I don't get as well. Espinoza should be part of a package that brings back more than Pomeranz.
I'm just glad they did this now. Gives the folks in Cooperstown two weeks to change Espinoza's cap from Red Sox to Padres in time for the ceremony.