TRADE DEADLINE GAME THREAD

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
10,961
I really hope we don't move YM or Devers today. YM is obvious but Devers is arguably our only elite power bat in the minors. YM is profiled as a 15-25HR guy in the majors (with another 25+ steals and 50+ doubles) whereas Devers has 30+HR potential.

Beni is an interesting piece because I think he is ultimately more valuable to another team than Boston. You don't need an elite athlete like Beni to play 1/2 the games in Fenway. I'd be comfortable with a package headlined by AB/Kopech/Edro for Sale, possibly throw in Ockimey or Basabe as well.

They should not give up 2 of the big 3 in any trade short of Mike Trout.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,850
As long as generational pitch-framing genius Christian Vazquez and All-Star Gritty Sparkplug BROCKHOLT! are included as two of Boston's "best" I'm okay with this news.

Otherwise, step back from the ledge, DDski!

This isn't selling out for Miley, this is Sale. That ledge is more like a curb.
 

heavyde050

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2006
11,257
San Francisco
Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 9s9 seconds ago
Complication w/Moncada is @RedSox having invested $63 million in bonus and taxes to sign him. Puts him in separate category.
The complication should be that Moncada is a potential Franchise player, a superstar.

DD should not even be thinking of trading Moncada unless for Trout, Machado, etc. Those trades aren't happening.

There are only a handful of players worth Moncada and for me Sale isn't one of them, especially if YM was only part of the package.
 

Maximus

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
5,774
Phil Rogers is the MLB.com columnist for the White Sox.

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 3s4 seconds ago
Yoan Moncada viewed as unlikely piece in Chris Sale talks. Potential @RedSox package leads w/Andrew Benintendi, Eduardo Rodriguez.

Yep. I have been saying Benintendi, Edro, ++ since yesterday for Sale. I'd do that deal if I was DD. Sale gives us a top of the rotation starter for multiple years in a pitching market that won't have top end talent available for a couple of years. Sale, Price, Wright, Porcello, Pomeranz is a nice rotation going forward until Kopech and Groome are ready. I'd expand the deal to include Robertson to bolster the pen and take back his $'s to minimize talent going back to the ChiSox.
 

grimshaw

Member
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
4,220
Portland
I don't believe Groome can be traded until after the World Series, and not even as a ptbnl.

"Fangraphs’ Dave Cameron reports that Major League Baseball emailed all 30 teams today to announce that, effective following this year’s draft, players selected in the amateur draft will be permitted to be traded beginning the day after the conclusion of the World Series.

The change is a much-needed revamp of the previous iteration, which had prohibited clubs from trading players for one year after being drafted. However, because the rules regarding players to be named later (PTBNLs) stated that teams had six months to determine the PTBNL in question, a loophole had been exploited in which prospects from the most recent draft were simply included as a PTBNL in trades that occurred more than six months after the draft in which they were selected.

In order to prevent any further loopholes, MLB has explicitly stated that any PTBNL must be eligible to be traded at the time the trade is agreed upon. In other words, draftees cannot be included as PTBNLs between their draft and the completion of the World Series"

From MLB trade rumors originally last year.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
Yep. I have been saying Benintendi, Edro, ++ since yesterday for Sale. I'd do that deal if I was DD. Sale gives us a top of the rotation starter for multiple years in a pitching market that won't have top end talent available for a couple of years. Sale, Price, Wright, Porcello, Pomeranz is a nice rotation going forward until Kopech and Groome are ready. I'd expand the deal to include Robertson to bolster the pen and take back his $'s to minimize talent going back to the ChiSox.
I'd take Robertson as well.

Say for instance this is the deal.

Chicago receives: EdRo, AB, Basabe and 2 other prospects on a mid tier level

Boston gets Robinson Sale and another small player

This could work. I'd also watch out for the Yankees in this sweepstakes as well. They also have the ammo to get Sale.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,275
Yep. I have been saying Benintendi, Edro, ++ since yesterday for Sale. I'd do that deal if I was DD. Sale gives us a top of the rotation starter for multiple years in a pitching market that won't have top end talent available for a couple of years. Sale, Price, Wright, Porcello, Pomeranz is a nice rotation going forward until Kopech and Groome are ready. I'd expand the deal to include Robertson to bolster the pen and take back his $'s to minimize talent going back to the ChiSox.

That's a great point...

CWS get: Benintendi, ERod, Swihart, Owens, Basabe
BOS get: Sale, Robertson

Who says no?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,676
Maine
As a reminder, here's Sale's contract:
  • 13:$0.85M, 14:$3.5M, 15:$6M, 16:$9.15M, 17:$12M, 18:$12.5M club option ($1M buyout), 19:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)
Which is a good reminder why while the White Sox might be shopping him, they have no real reason to move him in the next few hours unless they get what they are asking and not a penny less. The deal starts with two of Benintendi, Moncada and Devers and probably doesn't get back filled with middling/struggling prospects and lottery tickets.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
That's a great point...

CWS get: Benintendi, ERod, Swihart, Owens, Basabe
BOS get: Sale, Robertson

Who says no?
I'd have to really think hard. But my guess is that the ChiSox want BOTH Mondcada and Benintendi. Sale is one of the best starters in the AL and that contract is manageable, to say the least. And to that I say no.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 30, 2006
10,569
Sale is pretty game-changer-y, isn't he? I mean, if he isn't, who is? That turns Price, Porcello, Wright, Pomeranz, ERod into Sale, Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright. Upgrading from this season's EdRo to Chris Sale is, well, damn nice (Or Pomeranz if he were in the deal instead of EdRo, but I think you know what I mean here). I think it would very much change the game this season. You're talking a top 3 that are hard to beat if Price figured something out this past weekend. Now, in the future? Who knows? ERod might turn into a guy as good and reliable as Quintana, or Porcello...or he might be the 2nd coming of Clay Buchholz. Uncertainty is the nature of the trade game. And obviously, it would take at least one of Benintendi and Moncada plus some other names that would have been included in the ML future of the Sox. But Sale is most definitely a game changer. He's one of the best pitchers in the game, period. That's a game-changer to me. Can you tell me what your definition of game changer is?
David Price.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,275
I'd have to really think hard. But my guess is that the ChiSox want BOTH Mondcada and Benintendi. Sale is one of the best starters in the AL and that contract is manageable, to say the least. And to that I say no.
NM
 

ElcaballitoMVP

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 19, 2008
3,932
If CHW are trading Chris Sale, they aren't going to reduce their return by including David Robertson's contract. Which really is not that bad. They could move him in a separate deal and likely pick up a B level prospect.

I will say, an AB, EdRod, Swihart plus one or two more good pieces would be a tough one for CHW to turn down and a tough one for another team to beat.
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
10,961
It is also worth noting that Sale is having a bit of a down year for him and is looking at some regression once his BABIP comes up from .260.
His FB is down 1.5MPH yet his change is up slightly giving him less separation. His K/9 is down 3K/9 over last year (11.82 vs. 8.61) and his FIP is up a full run over last year 2.73 vs 3.69. He is giving up less soft contact and more hard contact than at any point in his career so he has definitely been lucky this year.

If you trade for Sale it is quite possible you are getting something closer to this years David Price than last years Chris Sale. Is that worth AB+? Perhaps but the chances of an overpay are significant.
 

NDame616

will bailey
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
2,315
I can't believe people think Pomeranz would be included in any deal, especially one centered around Sale. Do people not think other teams have the capability of watching out of market games? The guy got traded and in turn has produced three mediocre (at best) starts.
 

BigMike

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Sep 26, 2000
23,244
That's a great point...

CWS get: Benintendi, ERod, Swihart, Owens, Basabe
BOS get: Sale, Robertson

Who says no?
I think Chicago says no. Honestly Chicago's GM should be fired on the spot if he makes that deal. I don't think the last 4 pieces get you Robertson alone. That's a couple back of the rotation starter (maybe ERod has a chance to be #3), and a catcher who failed in his major league chances and now has a significant injury.

Sure if you could trade 2014 Owens, Swihart, and ERod, then there is a lot of value there, but I think all 3 value is WAY down right now.

I think you might be able to get Sale giving up only AB, Kopech, and a couple wildcards. to add Robertson, I think you need to add Devers.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 2, 2006
10,736
NJ
IF they can get Sale for AB and Rodriguez as the 2 main pieces with 2 lesser prospects attached, I think you have got to do it
 

jimbobim

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2012
1,558
It is also worth noting that Sale is having a bit of a down year for him and is looking at some regression once his BABIP comes up from .260.
His FB is down 1.5MPH yet his change is up slightly giving him less separation. His K/9 is down 3K/9 over last year (11.82 vs. 8.61) and his FIP is up a full run over last year 2.73 vs 3.69. He is giving up less soft contact and more hard contact than at any point in his career so he has definitely been lucky this year.

If you trade for Sale it is quite possible you are getting something closer to this years David Price than last years Chris Sale. Is that worth AB+? Perhaps but the chances of an overpay are significant.
All of this I agree with. Still pairing Price Sale this years Porcello as the first 3 starters with this offense in the playoffs and adding Robertson to pen is very very alluring.
 

dbn

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 10, 2007
7,785
La Mancha.
Since Sale has been a regular:
age, year, GS, ERA+, FIP, WHIP
23, 2012 29 140 3.27 1.135
24, 2013 30 137 3.17 1.073
25, 2014 26 173 2.57 0.966
26, 2015 31 114 2.73 1.088
27, 2106 20 128 3.69 1.029

and, as stated, his salary for age 27-30 seasons (not including overhead-costs for new throw-back uniforms):
16:$9.15M, 17:$12M, 18:$12.5M club option ($1M buyout), 19:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)
That's a valuable player/contract. Are his behavioral issues so bad that he'd be traded for one elite prospect; one young, promising MLB pitcher; and some good throw-ins? If they are, are we okay with that? I suspect AB, ERod, + doesn't get it done, but what do I know?
 

SoxLegacy

New Member
Oct 30, 2008
629
Maryland
FWIW, I hope that Dombrowski keeps both Benintendi and Moncada. Seeing them as the last 2 pieces of a potential long term playoff powerhouse team. I would also think the White Sox are looking for one or more of Betts, Bogaerts, and Bradley in the mix. While the short term addition of Sale helps, I believe the longer term outlook would be not as good for the Red Sox. Any inclusion of Kopech weakens an already weak pipeline of pitching.

Just get another lower cost reliever and play the cards you were dealt.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,376
I don't want to move Benintendi or Moncada (or, God forbid, both). But there is no way the 2016 Red Sox are not substantially better with Chris Sale.

Sale, Porcello, Price (if he returns to ace Price), Wright, and Pomeranz make a hell of a rotation.
 

johnnywayback

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 8, 2004
1,421
Trading for Chris Sale means pushing one of Price/Wright/Porcello/Pomeranz out of the playoff rotation. It won't be Price or Porcello. It sure as hell better not be the guy we just traded our best pitching prospect in a generation to get. So that leaves the All-Star. It is practically the very definition of a waste of resources to make that trade right now.

If you really feel like you need to upgrade from Rodriguez in the regular season rotation, which I don't agree with but which is at least a defensible position, do it after the season, when you won't be paying the July premium and when you'll be able to figure out what your Plan B is to having Andrew Benintendi put up a half-dozen 4WAR seasons in LF.
 

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
I don't think Moncada would be involved in any deal but I would be ok with a package built around AB.
In either case the SoxProspects melt down thread would be epic.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,619
CT
No one else is concerned with 3/5 of the starting rotation potentially being lefties?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,676
Maine
Trading for Chris Sale means pushing one of Price/Wright/Porcello/Pomeranz out of the playoff rotation. It won't be Price or Porcello. It sure as hell better not be the guy we just traded our best pitching prospect in a generation to get. So that leaves the All-Star. It is practically the very definition of a waste of resources to make that trade right now.
If Wright is turning back into a pumpkin as his last few starts seem to show, then there should be no qualms about pushing him to the pen in the post-season should it come to that. Especially if you're replacing him with a top 5 in the game type pitcher like Sale.

There are plenty of good reasons not to pull the trigger on Sale (the cost being the first through fifty-ninth reasons), but Wright's position in the post-season rotation is certainly not one of them.
 

grimshaw

Member
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
4,220
Portland
If I'm the White Sox, I wouldn't move Robertson in the same deal as Sale. I would think they'd want the best prospect they can get and worry about Robertson next year while they rebuild. It's not a franchise crippling contract.

Why sell low on him anyhow?
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,101
I think Chicago says no. Honestly Chicago's GM should be fired on the spot if he makes that deal. I don't think the last 4 pieces get you Robertson alone. That's a couple back of the rotation starter (maybe ERod has a chance to be #3), and a catcher who failed in his major league chances and now has a significant injury.

Sure if you could trade 2014 Owens, Swihart, and ERod, then there is a lot of value there, but I think all 3 value is WAY down right now.

I think you might be able to get Sale giving up only AB, Kopech, and a couple wildcards. to add Robertson, I think you need to add Devers.
Wait, what?

Blake Swihart has had 383 major league PA with a semi-respectable 271/328/355. He currently has sprained ankle, but that's not a long term concern.. You're ready to write him off? I'm glad you weren't in charge of JBJ's future at this point last year. There's no way the White Sox wouldn't take those 4 for David Robertson, who hasn't exactly been Mariano Rivera this year. They might even take just Swihart.
 

luckysox

Indiana Jones
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2009
8,076
S.E. Pennsylvania
I'd be thrilled to get Sale and think giving up AB + a lot is worth it. But I do not think it will happen. Chicago would be nuts to consider anything except Moncada and AB given his contract.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,619
CT
I realize the positives of a potential Sale trade. You net a legitimate ace, at or near his prime on what looks like an under-market value contract for the next few years. You look to head into the postseason with a rotation of Price-Sale-Pomeranz-Porcello-Wright.

I just don't know if I want to see them deplete that much of the farm system in one year after the Kimbrel and Pomeranz trades. If it's a choice of AB or Moncada, I'd strongly prefer they keep Moncada, but I also wouldn't want to see a trade of AB, Rodriguez, Swihart, +. I know that part of having a deep farm system is so you can trade prospects for veterans that can help the team, but 2016 might really do a number on the organization as a whole.
 

Toe Nash

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2005
5,600
02130
Trading Swihart right now would be dumb. He's at a low point in value until he can start playing again and they let him settle in at a position (hopefully catcher).

I think they should be shopping Benintendi if Sale is actually available. He's not taking over CR or RF and that limits his value. I like his future but I think he takes a few years to get there and LF is theoretically easier to fill than SP.
 

Pandemonium67

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
5,575
Lesterland
If the wanks want Kopech for Beltran, they have to sweeten the pot by kicking in ARod. He can spell Papi at DH against lefties.

We can balance the deal by throwing in Carl Willis.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
58,878
San Andreas Fault
Beni is an interesting piece because I think he is ultimately more valuable to another team than Boston. You don't need an elite athlete like Beni to play 1/2 the games in Fenway.
Would you consider Carl Yastrzemki elite? Mookie Betts? (although you probably meant you don't need an elite athlete in left field). They brought in a guy they considered elite at the time, exclusively for LF, in Carl Crawford. I know, disaster until the trade with LA. The thing about LF at Fenway, if a guy is a great outfielder, he can play shallow to catch more bloops, throw out more guys at the plate, and still get back for circus catches at the monster. Yaz did these things and we all loved him for them.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,619
CT
Would you consider Carl Yastrzemki elite? Mookie Betts? (although you probably meant you don't need an elite athlete in left field). They brought in a guy they considered elite at the time, exclusively for LF, in Carl Crawford. I know, disaster until the trade with LA. The thing about LF at Fenway, if a guy is a great outfielder, he can play shallow to catch more bloops, throw out more guys at the plate, and still get back for circus catches at the monster. Yaz did these things and we all loved him for them.
I think his point was more along the lines of Manny played LF for the Sox and they won the World Series. Having a guy that can cover ground and throw people out is nice, but more of a luxury than anything.
 

geoduck no quahog

not particularly consistent
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 8, 2002
13,024
Seattle, WA
From 2014:

Annual Chris Sale injury scare results in first trip to disabled list

Not saying Sale is an injury risk, but I hate giving up volume for any single pitcher, given that every single one is one pitch away from ending his season (and no, it's not the same risk as an everyday player).

For the third straight season, Chris Sale has put everybody through an early-season injury scare. It's getting to be a tradition, kind of like Gordon Beckham's "This is why I've turned the corner this time" speeches, but not nearly as charming.

Especially since this one involves a new wrinkle -- a stint on the disabled list due to a flexor muscle strain in his left arm.

The preliminary results of Sale's MRI showed that his elbow ligament is in working order...
2013

May 21: The day before Sale's next scheduled start, the White Sox scratch him due to a case of mild shoulder tendinitis. Sale wanted to pitch through it, but team doctors told him to take it easy.
2012
May 4: The Sox suddenly announce that Sale will be moved back to the bullpen due to a "slightly tender elbow" in a terribly managed media frenzy.
Of course this is hyperventilating over something that is unlikely to happen, but pitchers are fragile. This one is 6' 6" and weighs 180 pounds.

From 2013:

Will Chris Sale's Mechanics Spell Big Trouble for Him Down the Road?

Just something to be aware of when considering trading a couple of potential stars for one guy.
 

Hee Sox Choi

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 27, 2006
6,133
From Dave Cameron chat just now:

Jimmy
Benintendi/Rodriguez/Devers/Swihart for Sale. Deal?
Dave Cameron
That's a big overpay for Boston.
 

BigMike

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Sep 26, 2000
23,244
Trading Swihart right now would be dumb. He's at a low point in value until he can start playing again and they let him settle in at a position (hopefully catcher).

I think they should be shopping Benintendi if Sale is actually available. He's not taking over CR or RF and that limits his value. I like his future but I think he takes a few years to get there and LF is theoretically easier to fill than SP.
What he said

Wait, what?

Blake Swihart has had 383 major league PA with a semi-respectable 271/328/355. He currently has sprained ankle, but that's not a long term concern.. You're ready to write him off? I'm glad you weren't in charge of JBJ's future at this point last year. There's no way the White Sox wouldn't take those 4 for David Robertson, who hasn't exactly been Mariano Rivera this year. They might even take just Swihart.
His major league numbers are a big better than you suggest, slugging is 386.

the point is he will be 25 next opening day. He may or may not be able to be a major league catcher. There was certainly a great deal of doubt based on his stint with Boston. If you believe he is going to be a strong defensive catcher than a 714 OPS with potential upside is nice. If you think he is going to be a mediocre to poor catcher, then that isn't good enough. Yes there is still a chance that at age 28 he is a 20 HR guy with an 800+ OPS in the majors.
But there is no reason based on the last couple of years for a team outside to pay for that chance. Sure Chicago might take a flier on him as a 4th guy in a deal, but with all the questions about him right now he is a 4th guy in a deal for a guy like Sale (or3rd guy for Robertson). Now if Boston keeps him and he has a good spring, and 3-4 really good months in AAA or good months in the majors, then yes he would have actual trade value at the deadline next week
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,671
I really hope we don't move YM or Devers today. YM is obvious but Devers is arguably our only elite power bat in the minors. YM is profiled as a 15-25HR guy in the majors (with another 25+ steals and 50+ doubles) whereas Devers has 30+HR potential.

Beni is an interesting piece because I think he is ultimately more valuable to another team than Boston. You don't need an elite athlete like Beni to play 1/2 the games in Fenway. I'd be comfortable with a package headlined by AB/Kopech/Edro for Sale, possibly throw in Ockimey or Basabe as well.

They should not give up 2 of the big 3 in any trade short of Mike Trout.
I'll bet the over on YM's HR. Of course my opinion may be colored by the fact that in January 2014 Baseball Prospectus said Mookie Betts projected as "below average power" and 10 home run potential.