Arsenal 2016-17: Get Ready For A Xhak-attack

JimBoSox9

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Dreadful fucking performance. Is Cazorla the engine that actually runs this team?
I think you can make an argument that he can play forward and creatively relative to his replacements that facilitates the interchanging movement of the front four. I prefer general fatigue (the subs should have come in at least 10m earlier) and Conq's deficiencies versus Santi's uniqueness as the easier explanations. The manager has been proven mostly right in his deployment of forwards, but I remain skeptical of his high opinion of Conq as both stalwart and two-way player. We missed Xhaka and even Ramsey today, but dunno if Arsene would have taken advantage of them.
 

mikeford

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Against Middlesfrigginborough, Arsenal shouldnt NEED to employ Xhaka, Cazorla or Ramsey, if we're honest about the situation.

And yet, it felt as though even though Arsenal had the ball for about 80% of the time, Middlesborough should've won BIG if not for Petr Cech.
 

JimBoSox9

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Against Middlesfrigginborough, Arsenal shouldnt NEED to employ Xhaka, Cazorla or Ramsey, if we're honest about the situation.
This is just a fairly absurd statement in the face of today's EPL.

And yet, it felt as though even though Arsenal had the ball for about 80% of the time, Middlesborough should've won BIG if not for Petr Cech.[/QUOTE]

True. This was not a great day for the Kos-Mustafi pairing in addition to Conq.
 

mikeford

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How is it an absurd statement? Arsenal still started 2 of the... what 10, 20 best players in the world?

That should be good enough AT HOME to take out a freshly promoted side.
 
...and next up are eight eminently winnable games:

vs. Basel (Champions League)
at Burnley
vs. Swansea
vs. Ludogorets Razgrad (Champions League)
vs. Middlesbrough
vs. Reading (EFL Cup)
at Sunderland
at Ludogorets Razgrad (Champions League)

If Arsenal can do no worse than winning six and drawing two of those games before the much tougher stretch of vs. Tottenham, at Man Utd and vs. PSG, then I'll start getting excited about longer-term prospects.
WWWWD in the first five of these eight, so nicely on course, I think. Mind you, Arsenal needs more consistency - I'd rather have seen a pair of efficient 2-0 wins over Ludogorets and Middlesbrough than one dazzling win and one dismal draw. That's how Arsenal is most likely to come unstuck and (again) fail to properly challenge for the title this season.
 

miracleofmidre

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Arsenal should heavily rotate tomorrow, like, almost everyone. It's only October, and the heavy schedule surely played a role on Saturday. Just imagine if they continue with four competitions through the spring while other teams' schedules slim down. Losing to Reading would be unpleasant, and perhaps bad for confidence. But would it be the worst thing in the world, long-term?

Hopefully none of Ozil, Sanchez, Koscielny, Walcott, Monreal, Bellerin at the very least see the pitch at any moment.
 

the1andonly3003

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glad to see Iwobi hit the bench for a breather today. Iwobi and Bellerin have been playing a lot

with Giroud and Sanchez on the pitch together, did you notice if they lined up with 2 up front? or was Giroud playing behind Sanchez?
 

InstaFace

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Alexis is supposedly injured but might play Chile anyway and Arsene is pissssssed
Arsene might be pissssssed, but Alexis was the difference last night between a win and a loss vs Uruguay. He created one goal that was 100% his own work on a screamer from the 18 line, created another on a breakaway that was 80% his own work, and got the third going with a run that set up Beausejour's cross to Vargas.

Arsenal may get back an Alexis that's more in-form than the one that left them a week ago.
 

the1andonly3003

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Arsene might be pissssssed, but Alexis was the difference last night between a win and a loss vs Uruguay. He created one goal that was 100% his own work on a screamer from the 18 line, created another on a breakaway that was 80% his own work, and got the third going with a run that set up Beausejour's cross to Vargas.

Arsenal may get back an Alexis that's more in-form than the one that left them a week ago.
so there is no torn hamstring/quad?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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That was one of the worst matches I've seen us play in a long time but I'll take the point.

Our normal setup just doesn't work without Santi and Bellerin. We have no creativity in midfield, no threat wide on the right, and inevitably Alexis and Ozil start dropping so deep to get the ball that we lose any focal point through the middle. Until at least one of those guys come back, Wenger should just play Giroud through the middle and try to find a way to grind out points.
 

lars10

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I am really at my wits end with Ramsey.
Ramsey is part of the problem IMO. The team has played well without him but now that he's back I expect him to do the same things he's been doing for a while now..which is to play out of position..cheat into the box and constantly get in the way of the forwards. His passing has also been horrid. I think he thinks he's much better than he is and plays that way...even though he's not scoring anymore and his passes aren't connecting.
 

BostonJack42

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1. Why can't Ramsey slide into the place vacated by Santi's injury? I don't get playing BOTH Elneny and Coquelin unless your just trying to hold a lead. He wants to play in the middle.
2. Sanchez was dropping way too far back to pick up the ball. He shouldn't be grabbing short passes from the CBs.
3. I don't know what you do with Giroud. His record coming off the bench is so vastly superior to what he provides when he starts.
4. I know a lot of people are down on Ox but I personally love seeing him come on the pitch. He actually drives towards the goal once in awhile. Very refreshing to see.
5. All and all I will take the point.
 

JimBoSox9

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1. Why can't Ramsey slide into the place vacated by Santi's injury? I don't get playing BOTH Elneny and Coquelin unless your just trying to hold a lead. He wants to play in the middle.
2. Sanchez was dropping way too far back to pick up the ball. He shouldn't be grabbing short passes from the CBs.
3. I don't know what you do with Giroud. His record coming off the bench is so vastly superior to what he provides when he starts.
4. I know a lot of people are down on Ox but I personally love seeing him come on the pitch. He actually drives towards the goal once in awhile. Very refreshing to see.
5. All and all I will take the point.
2 is a function of 1, and 1 is because Ramsey thinks he's a hero 10 every time he's on the pitch, and can't keep to his defensive responsibilities like Santi can. The latter has massively improved his work rate and tackling over the last couple years, he's pretty underrated for it.
 

lars10

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2 is a function of 1, and 1 is because Ramsey thinks he's a hero 10 every time he's on the pitch, and can't keep to his defensive responsibilities like Santi can. The latter has massively improved his work rate and tackling over the last couple years, he's pretty underrated for it.
Also Ramsey can't pass accurately it seems. Tries a lot of unorthodox passes that don't find their man way too often for my tastes.
 

Silverdude2167

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Why would you do the fucking away goals rule before straight goal differential?

The one time Arsenal should win the group because they have performed better (so far).
They get screwed because of away goals.
 

mikeford

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No clue what the hell Iwobi was trying to do on the own goal.

Also Carl Jenkinson... its nice that yer grandpa was a Gooner and all, but you're terrible at this sport and you need to not play for Arsenal anymore. Please.
 

the1andonly3003

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Away goals is a trash rule that should be done away with in the first place.
I thought away goals on head to head matchup was because PSG and Arsenal were tied on goal differential entering/leaving today's match

I've noticed that Ozil disappeared now that Ramsay returned (last two matches)
 

miracleofmidre

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Barring some sort of turnaround, which would be unexpected at this point, it's time to sell Ramsey. He's not developing (rather, the opposite)' he's not reliably healthy, per the comment above he stunts Ozil when he appears, there's really nothing positive about his presence that I see with my naked eye. Other metrics may say otherwise, so I'd be curious to know what they are, but I don't see any compelling reason to keep him around.

Why, again, did he buy Xhaka?
 

lars10

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Barring some sort of turnaround, which would be unexpected at this point, it's time to sell Ramsey. He's not developing (rather, the opposite)' he's not reliably healthy, per the comment above he stunts Ozil when he appears, there's really nothing positive about his presence that I see with my naked eye. Other metrics may say otherwise, so I'd be curious to know what they are, but I don't see any compelling reason to keep him around.

Why, again, did he buy Xhaka?
I think he stunts their play generally. He's constantly in the box and farther up the pitch than he should be. He's lazy tracking back regularly. Both of those lead to problems for everyone else since it requires them to play less freely since they have to cover for him or move into unnatural positions on offense to accommodate him. Worse yet wenger insists on playing him any time he's healthy regardless if he's in form or the team was playing well without him. These last two games are perfect examples.

And wenger is equally stubborn in not playing Xhaka. It seems at times he refuses to change almost because he knows that's what the fans want. At least Xhaka stays in position.
 

JimBoSox9

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anyone see what happened to Debuchy? surprised he started and not subbed in
Just went down with a hamstring when running, I think. Major setback from him, especially since he showed a nice touch a couple times in the early going, in what was otherwise a cracking good game. If you ignore the ~15m after Gabriel came on out of position, the match probably wasn't as tight as it felt; Sanchez was feeling it something huge.
 

the1andonly3003

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Just went down with a hamstring when running, I think. Major setback from him, especially since he showed a nice touch a couple times in the early going, in what was otherwise a cracking good game. If you ignore the ~15m after Gabriel came on out of position, the match probably wasn't as tight as it felt; Sanchez was feeling it something huge.
http://www.espnfc.com/arsenal/story/3006192/mathieu-debuchy-fears-latest-injury-could-be-severe-arsene-wenger

sounds like Jenkinson may not see a league match in a while too
 

the1andonly3003

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I know it's only the EFL Cup, but Arsenal suck, and are playing with no heart.
what a disaster...there is no reason to lose today's game

you had a ton of highly paid players out there vs. Southampton and laid an egg...Mourinho played his top players against West Ham, who is in a relegation battle

EFL Cup was entirely winnable...Mourinho is on track to win another trophy while Arsene has the FA Cup of 2 seasons ago to look at
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Season pretty much over if recent history is any guide. I hope Wenger just goes with the Xhaka-Ramsey midfield at some point. We are unlikely to win anything with Cazorla anyway so we might as well be entertaining and there is some potential for it all to click for two youngish players and for that to be a very good pairing. In contrast, Xhaka-Coquelin and Xhaka-Elneny are both going to be the basis for some pretty boring static football.

Loaning him was a good move at the time but it would be pretty useful to have Wilshere back right now.
 
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The Gray Eagle

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Wow, Arsenal loses a game for the first time since the opener in August, a league cup match to boot, and you guys are freaking out?

EFL Cup was entirely winnable...Mourinho is on track to win another trophy while Arsene has the FA Cup of 2 seasons ago to look at
Only less than two years without a trophy! What a nightmare. And Mourhino is on track to have a similar record to Moyes at Man U so far. Bully for him.

The EFL Cup was winnable, but only by winning yesterday, then winning a two-match tie with Liverpool, and if we got past that, a probable matchup with Man United. That is not exactly a cakewalk.


Lucas fucking stinks by the way.
Has had exactly zero positive impact on any game he's played for Arsenal
2 assists in 28 minutes of play in the Champions League and 2 goals in 3 EFL Cup matches. Guess that's zero positive impact for a third- or fourth-string striker. No hat tricks or anything!
He has also played 87 minutes in the Premier League already without scoring a single goal, so I guess it's time to declare him a bust.

Season pretty much over if recent history is any guide.
Really? 3 points down in the league with only 25 more matches to play and it's over? I assume you are being sarcastic.

Cazorla should be back in March. So he should miss about 17 matches, and could play in about a dozen matches after that, possibly some very big ones.
He's good and is a big loss, but he is also not young, so it should be expected that he would miss some time. We have options in midfield, it's not the end of the world.

Arsenal haven't played well lately but every team hits rough patches. Cazorla is a loss but he could be back in March. We have other options in midfield.
It would have been nice to win yesterday but that would have bought us two more tough matches against Liverpool right after the packed "festive period" schedule, when the best players are already ragged and susceptible to injury. And it's the league cup! Jeezus.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Really? 3 points down in the league with only 25 more matches to play and it's over? I assume you are being sarcastic.

Cazorla should be back in March. So he should miss about 17 matches, and could play in about a dozen matches after that, possibly some very big ones.
He's good and is a big loss, but he is also not young, so it should be expected that he would miss some time. We have options in midfield, it's not the end of the world.

Arsenal haven't played well lately but every team hits rough patches. Cazorla is a loss but he could be back in March. We have other options in midfield.
It would have been nice to win yesterday but that would have bought us two more tough matches against Liverpool right after the packed "festive period" schedule, when the best players are already ragged and susceptible to injury. And it's the league cup! Jeezus.
I was exaggerating for effect and I certainly don't care about the loss in the league cup.

If there has been one pattern for Arsenal over the last 2-3 years, its been that we've been very, very good with Santi Cazorla in central midfield and pretty mediocre when he has been out of the lineup. I don't think that past is necessarily destiny going into the future. But we certainly need to find a way to make the midfield work without Cazorla, Wenger really hasn't done so yet despite many different opportunities to figure it out, and I'm skeptical of his ability to do so now. Although I've been a massive Ramsey critic in general, Xhaka-Ramsey offers the most upside in my view. Its hard for me to see Xhaka-Elneny or Xhaka-Coquelin offering us enough quality or threat going forward to sustain a title challenge.
 

lars10

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Wow, Arsenal loses a game for the first time since the opener in August, a league cup match to boot, and you guys are freaking out?


Only less than two years without a trophy! What a nightmare. And Mourhino is on track to have a similar record to Moyes at Man U so far. Bully for him.

The EFL Cup was winnable, but only by winning yesterday, then winning a two-match tie with Liverpool, and if we got past that, a probable matchup with Man United. That is not exactly a cakewalk.




2 assists in 28 minutes of play in the Champions League and 2 goals in 3 EFL Cup matches. Guess that's zero positive impact for a third- or fourth-string striker. No hat tricks or anything!
He has also played 87 minutes in the Premier League already without scoring a single goal, so I guess it's time to declare him a bust.



Really? 3 points down in the league with only 25 more matches to play and it's over? I assume you are being sarcastic.

Cazorla should be back in March. So he should miss about 17 matches, and could play in about a dozen matches after that, possibly some very big ones.
He's good and is a big loss, but he is also not young, so it should be expected that he would miss some time. We have options in midfield, it's not the end of the world.

Arsenal haven't played well lately but every team hits rough patches. Cazorla is a loss but he could be back in March. We have other options in midfield.
It would have been nice to win yesterday but that would have bought us two more tough matches against Liverpool right after the packed "festive period" schedule, when the best players are already ragged and susceptible to injury. And it's the league cup! Jeezus.
Possible Mourinho is playing his top tier talent in non league matches because that's the only thing he can hope to win this season? He did the same against Man City. Arsene is actually hoping to compete in all competitions but is also playing appropriate lineups to try and keep people healthy and also based on what competitions are actually important.

Edit: if not obvious I'm agreeing with you
 
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coremiller

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I was exaggerating for effect and I certainly don't care about the loss in the league cup.

If there has been one pattern for Arsenal over the last 2-3 years, its been that we've been very, very good with Santi Cazorla in central midfield and pretty mediocre when he has been out of the lineup. I don't think that past is necessarily destiny going into the future. But we certainly need to find a way to make the midfield work without Cazorla, Wenger really hasn't done so yet despite many different opportunities to figure it out, and I'm skeptical of his ability to do so now. Although I've been a massive Ramsey critic in general, Xhaka-Ramsey offers the most upside in my view. Its hard for me to see Xhaka-Elneny or Xhaka-Coquelin offering us enough quality or threat going forward to sustain a title challenge.
Xhaka is really the natural Cazorla replacement (both during Cazorla's injury and long-term). Central midfielders with his range of passing, athleticism, and tackling ability are rare and there's a reason he cost 35m. If Cazorla going down submarines their season it's because Xhaka turns out to be a bust, and it will be Xhaka's failure, rather than Cazorla's injury, that's the real problem. Arsenal can afford to buy 35m players but they can't afford to waste 35m on players who don't contribute.