Ghost and/or Nink?Solder feels like the most likely candidate to me. And no, I have no clue who'd play LT afterwards
Ghost and/or Nink?Solder feels like the most likely candidate to me. And no, I have no clue who'd play LT afterwards
I don't think the economics work for Gronk or DMac this offseason, but they are 2018 candidates.Based on past moves -- Collins, Jones, Mankins, Seymour, Milloy, -- my fear would be that Gronk and DMac are the likeliest victims.
Would Nink really count? We all kind of expect him to be gone and he really isn't a huge part of the team anymore - more of a situational guy at this point. Gost certainly would qualify in my book. I think Solder would as well.Ghost and/or Nink?
Point ceded. Nomario's scenario on Butler, meanwhile, is fascinating/chillingWould Nink really count? We all kind of expect him to be gone and he really isn't a huge part of the team anymore - more of a situational guy at this point.
Butler. Are you kidding me? He is an elite corner and someone they would easily give the money to since he is young, plays his ass off and doesn't complain. He is not someone you dump for a second round pick considering he will at least get a first round restricted free agent tender. He is a building block to the defense. The Pats haven't signed anyone to big money at corner because they haven't had anyone as good as Butler since possibly Ty Law or Asante Samuel after that. Butler is also a much better player than Samuel was.I don't think the economics work for Gronk or DMac this offseason, but they are 2018 candidates.
Butler is a guy I could see getting the Collins / Jones treatment. He's definitely earned a big deal but the Patriots haven't tended to sign cornerbacks to big money. They used a high pick on Cyrus Jones and traded for Eric Rowe and have a couple other young guys in Justin Coleman and Jonathan Jones. They could bring Ryan back on a middleish deal, draft a CB in the first or second round, and trade Butler for something valuable (a second?).
I'm not looking forward to the future "Malcolm, GO!" thread...Butler. Are you kidding me? He is an elite corner and someone they would easily give the money to since he is young, plays his ass off and doesn't complain. He is not someone you dump for a second round pick considering he will at least get a first round restricted free agent tender. He is a building block to the defense. The Pats haven't signed anyone to big money at corner because they haven't had anyone as good as Butler since possibly Ty Law or Asante Samuel after that. Butler is also a much better player than Samuel was.
Every year the cap is going up. Its time to stop dicking around with young top talent and pay them fair market value.I'm not looking forward to the future "Malcolm, GO!" thread...
Jokes aside, I think he certainly qualifies as a possibility, albeit hopefully a remote one. At the end of the day, we have no idea how any player is viewed by BB and staff. I would like to think that Butler will be the next McCourty because he's absolutely earned it and is basically everything you can hope for in a CB. But we don't know what his or his agent's demands are. There is always potential for a divorce no matter who the player is.
I mean "dicking around" has done the team ok. But I do agree they are at a point where they have to pick a few players and spend market value. BB has done so well managing the cap that there is a significant surplus, and letting that just sit around doesn't do much good. Butler seems like the obvious choice to start with, then maybe Hightower, though I wouldn't be totally stunned to see someone like Ryan or Adouye get it instead. Harmon, too. Hightower is getting up there for LB age and he's hurt all the time. If someone gives him guaranteed money that keep him a significant cap hit for 4 years, I can't be too upset if they let him walk.Every year the cap is going up. Its time to stop dicking around with young top talent and pay them fair market value.
I don't really get the "are you kidding me?" reaction after we just saw them trade Collins and Jones (and Hightower might walk, too). Nothing's sacred here.Butler. Are you kidding me? He is an elite corner and someone they would easily give the money to since he is young, plays his ass off and doesn't complain. He is not someone you dump for a second round pick considering he will at least get a first round restricted free agent tender. He is a building block to the defense. The Pats haven't signed anyone to big money at corner because they haven't had anyone as good as Butler since possibly Ty Law or Asante Samuel after that. Butler is also a much better player than Samuel was.
I don't get it either. Ive moved towards the pay Butler/building block camp, but if they did something like the Jones trade and used the money/assets for something else it would be completely within the Patriots MO.I don't really get the "are you kidding me?" reaction after we just saw them trade Collins and Jones (and Hightower might walk, too). Nothing's sacred here.
Flipping it around, I think a lot of the reasons you list are reasons why Butler might not be long for the Patriots. On the open market, what does he get? North of $12 MM / year? $14 or $15 (what Josh Norman signed for last offseason)? If he's interested in maximizing his earnings, I have a hard time seeing the Patriots going in that neighborhood for a cornerback. They just do not value the position that highly in terms of their economic and draft investment (the Patriots spent less than $5 MM in CBs in 2016; only Carolina spent less. They were 32nd in 2015). I expect it will come down to:
1) can they leverage the RFA year of control to sign Butler to a below-market deal?
2) If no, they still might decide to let him play out the year and then let him walk for a comp pick.
3) If they think he might be a headache in a walk year (I don't have any reason to think that, but I wouldn't have had any reason to think that for Jones or Collins, either) or they like the return better than the comp pick, they could trade him.
I wouldn't be surprised by any of the three possibilities, frankly.
This argument doesn't make sense though - they spend the money every year.What's the goal here, though? To win the Superbowl 35 million under the cap? Fully understanding that the cap rolls over, eventually you have to spend the money somewhere or it just sits there, .
You're going to have to explain what you mean by this further. Pretty much every dollar a team can give to a player is accounted for in the cap. The Patriots have spent almost everything they could. There's no extra money that they could have spent - its ALL been rolled over since rolling cap space has been allowed.but in a cashflow sense that money wasn't spent by the organization, and is available for capital projects or distributions as the Krafts' whims may prefer. No other spending of the team's revenues will affect what room they have under the salary cap.
I always loved the old clips with Belichick telling Bruschi, Seymour, and Wilfork all kinds of stories about when he used to coach the 80's Giants with LT, Pepper Johnson, and Carl Banks. And it just got me thinking that these days, he's probably telling similar stories about the 01-04 Pats defense to the team today.
I understand they usually spend, but the point is that they are in arguably the best cap shape they've ever been in. They have lots of money for relatively few position needs and are set up nicely moving forward. At some point you gotta throw down a market contract or two.This argument doesn't make sense though - they spend the money every year.
Not spending it on Butler doesn't mean they're not going to spend it at all.
I don't know I could argue for 5: Brady, Gronk, Hightower, McCourty, Butler. To say nothing of Slater.s, and not having many players who are top-5 at their position (arguably we only have 2)
If that's the way we look at it, neither is Brady (18th among QBs in 2016 cap hit) or Gronk (6th among TEs in 2016 cap hit).I don't know I could argue for 5: Brady, Gronk, Hightower, McCourty, Butler. To say nothing of Slater.
However, Hightower and Butler aren't being paid like that. Yet. So, perhaps your point holds.
Eh, he pushes everything right, as long as he got help from Thuney he'd be fineGhost would make a terrible left tackle
Well sure, but they aren't on rookie contracts.If that's the way we look at it, neither is Brady (18th among QBs in 2016 cap hit) or Gronk (6th among TEs in 2016 cap hit).
I'd argue Gronk is absolutely fair market right now, given you can expect him to miss half the season. Brady is obviously an insane steal.If that's the way we look at it, neither is Brady (18th among QBs in 2016 cap hit) or Gronk (6th among TEs in 2016 cap hit).
In addition to Slater, I think there's an argument Trey Flowers could be added to the list as arguably a top 5 guy if we're projecting for 2017. Were there 5 interior linemen better than him the second half of 2016? He's hitting his physical prime now, as well, and should have plenty of room to grow.I don't know I could argue for 5: Brady, Gronk, Hightower, McCourty, Butler. To say nothing of Slater.
However, Hightower and Butler aren't being paid like that. Yet. So, perhaps your point holds.
Certainly could argue that. I'd disagree, as despite the games missed, he's ranked 2nd, 1st, 1st, 11th, 1st, 2nd and 4th among TEs in DYAR in his 7 years as a pro. Since 2011, he's ranked 29th, 17th, 21st, 9th, 2nd and 6th in cap hit.I'd argue Gronk is absolutely fair market right now, given you can expect him to miss half the season. Brady is obviously an insane steal.
What a great game this was. On the first point, I agree – its kind of amazing to think how conservative the Pats were on their second to last drive, running on third and long, particularly in light of the fact that the final drive a few minutes later took ginormous balls to call.Interesting decision to run on third and eight or so with 2:20 left in the game when a first down wins. There's no real clock advantage there. The two minute warning is coming up either way. Pretty conservative. Forgot about that. Also forgot how bad the punt was, though in retrospect a better punt maybe doesn't leave enough time if the Rams score.
Madden's commentary is a bit too conservative. With the Rams having no timeouts, the Patiots could have kneeled at any time and run at least 40 seconds or so. It wasn't a consideration until third down, which never came.
What a great story, thanks for posting it. I grew up in town so the "Johnny Foxboro" stuff cracks me up.Yes, Virginia, there is a Johnny Foxborough:
Robert Kraft greeted them in his office and the Patriots owner told Mark that he knew his story, and that he was proud of his resiliency. They visited the trophy room where, at the time, there were four sterling silver footballs waiting for a fifth, and they toured the locker room. The Patriots were out on the practice field, completing their final session at home, so Clagg didn’t get to see Brady, who was embedded in his preparation routine. But they ran into Rob Gronkowski, the star tight end on injured reserve. When he learned the identity of the visitor, Gronkowski chuckled heartily and said, “Wait until Tom hears Johnny Foxborough is here!”
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/02/21/nfl-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-johnny-foxborough-mark-clagg-foxborough-warriors
The fact that there were multiple Best.Superbowl.Ever. posts tells you everything you need to know about that pathetic fanbase.Wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but here is the Gang Green SB 51 thread, if you've got a half hour or so and want to see it from another side. A lot of hatred for the Pats but also a lot of admissions about the GOAT QB and GOAT coach when it was over. Had to laugh about this post and how we always think Jim Nantz hates the Pats:
I'm not counting out the Cheats unless it's 60-0, but this is NOT what I expected. Jim Nantz, that shill, is probably standing on a chair somewhere with a rope around his neck getting ready to end it all.
http://forums.jetnation.com/topic/131181-super-bowl-game-thread/
Yeah. Everyone knows it was 48.The fact that there were multiple Best.Superbowl.Ever. posts tells you everything you need to know about that pathetic fanbase.
Any time a team centers the ball and then the guy tries to kick the ball through the H arrangement, it's called a FG, right?Just about halfway through but the, "TD Cheats, but missed FG, hardy-har. How does it feel to be the Jets you cheating pricks?" had me spitting up beer. What a pathetic fanbase
That was by far the most entertaining non Patriots SB I've ever watched. I thoroughly enjoyed that game.Yeah. Everyone knows it was 48.
Ditto. Living in Colorado at the time made it all the sweeter. My neighbors hated me that night. Manning Face!That was by far the most entertaining non Patriots SB I've ever watched. I thoroughly enjoyed that game.
Yes, Virginia, there is a Johnny Foxborough:
Robert Kraft greeted them in his office and the Patriots owner told Mark that he knew his story, and that he was proud of his resiliency. They visited the trophy room where, at the time, there were four sterling silver footballs waiting for a fifth, and they toured the locker room. The Patriots were out on the practice field, completing their final session at home, so Clagg didn’t get to see Brady, who was embedded in his preparation routine. But they ran into Rob Gronkowski, the star tight end on injured reserve. When he learned the identity of the visitor, Gronkowski chuckled heartily and said, “Wait until Tom hears Johnny Foxborough is here!”
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/02/21/nfl-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-johnny-foxborough-mark-clagg-foxborough-warriors
2001-02 to 2016-17 (less 2008). 15 Seasons with the Belichick-Brady combo at the helm of the Patriots.
14 of those seasons in the playoffs (93.3% of the time)
14 of those seasons with divisional titles (93.3% of the time)
12 of those seasons with 11 or more wins (80.0% of the time)
11 of those seasons with 12 or more wins (73.3% of the time)
11 of those seasons making it to the AFCCG (73.3% of the time)
7 of those seasons making it to the Super Bowl (46.7% of the time)
6 of those seasons with 13 or more wins (40.0% of the time)
5 of those seasons winning the Super Bowl (33.3% of the time)
5 of those seasons with 14 or more wins (33.3% of the time)
0 of those seasons with fewer than 9 wins (0.0% of the time)
Basically, 3 of every 4 years they're playing for the conference championship. Nearly half of their seasons together, they're in the Super Bowl. One out of every three seasons they're winning a Lombardi.
And never, ever having anything other than a winning season. Only missing the playoffs once, and that on a tiebreaker.
It's just unbelievable.
Thanks for these. I'm still chuckling. Cackling, maybe...The Steelers, under Tomlin, have gone to 3 of 10 AFC Championship games. That is pretty good. If they go to the next 7 in a row they still won't have matched BB's 11 in 17 years.
Makes me wonder how long Manish has until he jumps.That article makes me wonder how long it will be until there is a salary cap or term limits for head coaches ... you know, in the name of parity.