New and Improved--Pablo Sandoval, 3B

Al Zarilla

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I thought I heard somewhere (here, or maybe on a recent broadcast) that Pablo dislikes playing first and after being injured playing it for SF said he doesn't want to do it again. Or am I misremembering?
Right, I've posted that a couple of times here, having heard it from Mike Krukow, Giants color guy I think it was. Actually, the only time I've heard that he said it was right after the injury in 2012, I think it was. The way it's looking for him now, he'd better do whatever they ask him.
 

Plympton91

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I still cannot believe the Red Sox actually went into 2017 with both the primary and secondary plan being for Pablo Sandoval to be the starting third baseman. A platoon of Rutledge and Holt is a fine third option though, so there's that to look forward to, or maybe Marco Hernandez can prove his AAA numbers will translate to the majors and take over the LH side of the platoon.

Rafael Devers, Red Sox Nation begs you to accelerate your development even more than you already are.
 

In my lifetime

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I still cannot believe the Red Sox actually went into 2017 with both the primary and secondary plan being for Pablo Sandoval to be the starting third baseman. A platoon of Rutledge and Holt is a fine third option though, so there's that to look forward to, or maybe Marco Hernandez can prove his AAA numbers will translate to the majors and take over the LH side of the platoon.

Rafael Devers, Red Sox Nation begs you to accelerate your development even more than you already are.
I am actually thrilled that at this point in the season, the RS look absolutely solid at every position including starting staff, and the pen (albeit not nearly as solid) with the exception of 3B. The have weathered more than their share of injuries and illness, while playing at a pace to win 95 games(SSS noted). As they get healthy, the offense should round into shape. If 3B remains a big problem, they should be able to address that later in the season with a short term fix to hold down the spot until Devers is ready.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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How did Panda look at Second Base on Friday after Pedroia left the game?
Like any other second baseman, only a bit plumper. He was there for two batters (4 pitches) who flied out to RF and LF respectively. Nothing really to judge him on, except maybe handling the throw back to the infield from Betts, which was uneventful.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Nothing in the short term would be my guess given the fact that non-passable defense was always, by far, the most likely outcome going in to this season with Pablo as your guy there..
I agree with this for the most part but I do wonder just how bad he would have to be at 3rd for them to make a move and if it's possible he could even be that bad.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Can we see how severe it is before we DL him, please?
Unless the Sox are going to DL Pedroia, they're going to start running out of warm bodies to man the infield, real soon.

You can't run a club with only 11 healthy position players. And that doesn't even get into the issue of whether Barnes gets suspended for throwing the beanball at Machado (since that could be appealed and delayed).
 

Byrdbrain

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Farrell more or less said he didn't want a player as important as Betts getting hurt playing out of position. The implication being that he, quite reasonably, didn't care if Sandoval got hurt.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Anyone opine as to why the solution to the Pedroia injury wasn't to put Selsky in the OF and bring Betts in to 2B?
Byrd covered the reason Farrell gave, but I would imagine recency would be a factor as well. Even if Sandoval hasn't played 2B proper in years, if ever, shifting for LHHs does take him to that side of the infield on occasion. So he's been there before and has probably taken grounders there in preparation for those shifts.

Meanwhile, when was the last time Betts spent time in the infield? 2015?
 

Rovin Romine

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Byrd covered the reason Farrell gave, but I would imagine recency would be a factor as well. Even if Sandoval hasn't played 2B proper in years, if ever, shifting for LHHs does take him to that side of the infield on occasion. So he's been there before and has probably taken grounders there in preparation for those shifts.

Meanwhile, when was the last time Betts spent time in the infield? 2015?
I don't disagree with protecting Betts, especially for a single inning, but Betts was a full time 2B in the minors.

Theoretically, if Pedroia were out indefinitely, it might make some sense to move Betts back to 2B full time. That would suppose Betts can play a decent 2B, we have no good 2B candidate, and we have 3 other excellent OFs. We're pretty close to that situation now. On balance though, they should probably leave him where he is.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I was definitely speaking only to the situation of finishing that game in terms of recency being a factor. That is by no means an argument that Sandoval would be a better solution at 2B than Betts if Pedroia was out for an extended period. If Pedroia were out for the year or something like that, I think Betts becomes a prime candidate to play 2B if the OF alternatives are better than the ones for 2B.
 

Al Zarilla

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I was definitely speaking only to the situation of finishing that game in terms of recency being a factor. That is by no means an argument that Sandoval would be a better solution at 2B than Betts if Pedroia was out for an extended period. If Pedroia were out for the year or something like that, I think Betts becomes a prime candidate to play 2B if the OF alternatives are better than the ones for 2B.
Wasn't Betts the single most valuable defensive player at any position last year? That level of play would be pretty hard to give up. How good is he at second base? Also, going out to the OF, he had to kind of "stretch out" his arm to get to being able to make the long throws to third and home. Going back to second base would mean getting ready for altogether different kinds of throws. I know in the hierarchy of baseball defensive positions, second base is higher than RF, but moving him back and forth isn't wise. Pedroia isn't done, or out for the year, I hope.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Sandoval to the DL with right knee sprain, Rutledge activated in his place.
No surprise there. That was a lot of force applied to the knee.

Hopefully Rutledge and Hernandez can handle both 3B and 2B without issue. And that in five days' time BROCKHOLT!! is back should Pedroia need to join Panda on the DL.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Josh Rutledge? Career OPS .709 Josh Rutledge?

He's hoping to win a Utility job. If he's the starting Red Sox third baseman for more than 20 games this year this team is in deep deep trouble.
I'd bet he ends up playing more games at third this year than panda.
 

simplicio

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Josh Rutledge? Career OPS .709 Josh Rutledge?

He's hoping to win a Utility job. If he's the starting Red Sox third baseman for more than 20 games this year this team is in deep deep trouble.
Panda's at .646 and -.4 WAR on the season so far and looking like a blind butcher at third. I'll take Rutledge/Hernandez/Holt all the way to the Devers era if it means never having him take the field again.
 

MikeM

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Josh Rutledge? Career OPS .709 Josh Rutledge?

He's hoping to win a Utility job. If he's the starting Red Sox third baseman for more than 20 games this year this team is in deep deep trouble.
We were already swimming in a potentially deeper puddle of inevitable outcome trouble since day 1.

If anything there you hope Rutledge and co is enough to starve off the possibility we have to rush Devers or make a deal for an outside asset. A .700 ops with even average defense probably does that.
 

The Gray Eagle

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If Rutledge put up a .700 OPS as a third baseman, that would be well above what we've had there for the last 5 seasons:
From Speier's 108 Stitches today:
"As a group, Red Sox third baseman have a .237/.293/.366 line since 2013 – bottom four totals in all three categories, with the worst mark in the majors in both slugging and OPS (.659)."
 

Al Zarilla

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We were already swimming in a potentially deeper puddle of inevitable outcome trouble since day 1.

If anything there you hope Rutledge and co is enough to starve off the possibility we have to rush Devers or make a deal for an outside asset. A .700 ops with even average defense probably does that.
Starve off in a Pablo thread, tee hee.
 

dbn

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We were already swimming in a potentially deeper puddle of inevitable outcome trouble since day 1.

If anything there you hope Rutledge and co is enough to starve off the possibility we have to rush Devers or make a deal for an outside asset. A .700 ops with even average defense probably does that.
Amen to the defense. They'll be okay with below average production at the plate from their 3B, but they need at least decent defense.
 

MikeM

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You mean like Steven Wright pinch running and Blake Swihart playing left field? Right.
Wright was a nice but we-all-knew-it-was-fluky half season story, and Swihart is an unproven talent that was already losing some of his can't miss shine. Directly comparing them there to the emerging face of the franchise is kind of a reach imo.

For sanity's sake I have to believe that Farrell doesn't willingly want to have Sandoval's defense at third all year, and hopefully extending into a playoff run latter. So yeah, I also ultimately don't believe he'd be losing any sleep over the possibility that Panda got hurt playing out of position either.
 
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SouthernBoSox

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They absolutely love Marco Hernandez. This is his time... I'd be pretty surprised if he wasn't the "starter" at some point this season.
 

shaggydog2000

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dhappy42

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I'm woulda-coulda-shoulda whining, but have the Sox had a full-time, reliable 3Bman since letting Beltre walk?

I loved Beltre. Knew it was a mistake not to resign him. Had no idea how big of a mistake.
 

nvalvo

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I really hope that you are correct.
Hernandez has had 40 PA, and in that tiny sample he's struck out a lot (10) and barely walked (1 BB, 1 HBP). That means that in that tiny sample he has had 28 BIP, and he has been scorching the ball. 12 hard-hit balls per fangraphs, 8 medium, 8 soft. 9 LD, 14 GB, 5 FB, 0 PU.

He has a high BABIP at .393, but he has earned it. And looking at it like this, it seems sort of strange that his batted ball profile hasn't produced more than one extra base hit.
 

pokey_reese

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Hernandez has had 40 PA, and in that tiny sample he's struck out a lot (10) and barely walked (1 BB, 1 HBP). That means that in that tiny sample he has had 28 BIP, and he has been scorching the ball. 12 hard-hit balls per fangraphs, 8 medium, 8 soft. 9 LD, 14 GB, 5 FB, 0 PU.

He has a high BABIP at .393, but he has earned it. And looking at it like this, it seems sort of strange that his batted ball profile hasn't produced more than one extra base hit.
Yeah, it's hard to really evaluate him at this point, given the small number of PAs, but when the bar is Panda, who has perhaps the worst approach at the plate in the league, it's hard for him to be much worse. Granted, Pablo has shown that he at least has the power to drive the ball out when he happens to run into one (something the team sorely lacks right now), but if Hernandez can be an average defensive 3B then he is probably more valuable right now.

edit: Actually, digging into their batted ball and plate discipline numbers on Fangraphs, Hernandez almost looks like an offensive clone of late-years Panda, but his defensive numbers have been better, as have SSS batted ball outcomes. Exit velocity samples are too small to mean much at this time, but Panda has a slight edge there, which makes sense.
 
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dbn

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I'm woulda-coulda-shoulda whining, but have the Sox had a full-time, reliable 3Bman since letting Beltre walk?

I loved Beltre. Knew it was a mistake not to resign him. Had no idea how big of a mistake.
Recently, when the main board was really quiet, I almost started a fluff-thread asking everyone's favorite RS to play one season or less with the team, with Beltre being my answer. I just love watching great D, and that weird take-a-knee swing is fun, to boot.
 

Byrdbrain

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Don't forget him asking the 3B ump to rule on his check swings and his weird head thing.
He was quirky but he was damned good on offense and defense.
 

Saints Rest

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Resigning Beltre is an all-time great "What If...?" debate.
If he had been re-signed...
- Youks stays at 1B possibly extending his career which probably means...
- no trade for AGon, which probably means...
- no trading away of Anthony Rizzo which may mean...
- no Cubs WS
But with no AGon, maybe there is no Punto Trade, which may mean no 2013 WS victory

Beltre was a huge domino falling
 

Toe Nash

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I'm woulda-coulda-shoulda whining, but have the Sox had a full-time, reliable 3Bman since letting Beltre walk?

I loved Beltre. Knew it was a mistake not to resign him. Had no idea how big of a mistake.
Beltre's deal was 5/80 going into his age 32 year. At the time of the signing he had always been great defensively, but was very up-and-down offensively, with great years in '04 and '10, but no better than a 112 OPS+ any other year. He had also battled some injuries (which impacted his offense). 3B also don't historically age particularly well.

He reached a new level of consistency starting with his year in Boston and now he looks like a Hall of Famer, but I can't say that was expected or that I wanted the Sox to sign that deal at the time (if he would have even signed it).
 

grimshaw

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Recently, when the main board was really quiet, I almost started a fluff-thread asking everyone's favorite RS to play one season or less with the team, with Beltre being my answer. I just love watching great D, and that weird take-a-knee swing is fun, to boot.
You should - that would be a fun thread.
 

soxhop411

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Red SOX say No timetable for Sandoval return.

“@PeteAbe: #RedSox have no timetable as to when Sandoval will start baseball activities. Becoming evident he’ll be out a while.”
 

kelpapa

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Resigning Beltre is an all-time great "What If...?" debate.
If he had been re-signed...
- Youks stays at 1B possibly extending his career which probably means...
- no trade for AGon, which probably means...
- no trading away of Anthony Rizzo which may mean...
- no Cubs WS
But with no AGon, maybe there is no Punto Trade, which may mean no 2013 WS victory

Beltre was a huge domino falling
It also means no jbj and swihart unless you think the Sox would have been able to select them with other picks.