Race and the Red Sox
- Thread starter doctorogres
- Start date
Fans reporting other fans for this kind of behavior would seem to be the most critical element in trying to minimize it. There is simply no way the security staff can be expected to catch all such incidents first hand. Is there anything the Red Sox can do, that they aren't currently doing, to encourage it? Honest question. I go to 10-15 games a year, sit in the bleachers, and have never really had any experience reporting anyone. Does security take it seriously, and are they responsive enough?
I wonder how many of our members are people of color, and if they're willing to comment from their perspective?
(No, I'm not conducting a census, but I have the sense that most of us who've spoken are white.)
(No, I'm not conducting a census, but I have the sense that most of us who've spoken are white.)
It ought to be reported, and the team should have a two-strike policy. First time, you're thrown out for that game. Second time, you're banned for life. Make season ticket holders strictly accountable for the behavior of those using the tickets. Not perfect, but good.
And no, there is no free speech right to use the n-word in a venue packed with tens of thousands of people where alcohol is liberally served.
And no, there is no free speech right to use the n-word in a venue packed with tens of thousands of people where alcohol is liberally served.
I don't know how the response works when people use the text option that Fenway broadcasts before the game but I have seen security react pretty quickly when it's brought to their attention in person. They've come up and asked folks to cut out the swearing or whatever when someone complains. I've seen it first hand when a group of us were asked to sit down during the World Series because people behind us couldn't see, but that's outside the scope here.
What I find somewhat surprising is that the staff that stands by the stairs between section 36 and 37 didn't hear what was being yelled. I guess the people could have been at the far left of section 34 but I know if anyone is yelling loud enough for the CF to hear them from section 36 I can hear it 20 rows back in that section which means the staff can hear it by the stairs.
I would amend this: no second chances. You get caught using racist language, even once, you're banned for life. Period. That's the way soccer teams in the Premier League do it, and that's the way it should be done here.
That is a fantastic idea. I don't expect it to happen, but symbolically, it would be cool.
I'm not against banning the guy for life in theory, but how does that work as a practical matter? Every ticket taker has to have have his face committed to memory and be able to recognize him in an instant, with no false positives? I'm not especially good at recognizing faces, so maybe it's not quite the problem I think. Do parks have facial recognition software?
As for holding ticket holders accountable for the people who use the seats, that seems unreasonable in a day when StubHub is partnered with MLB.
Premier League teams do the banning for life. I'd imagine no one with the banned name gets to buy tickets, that people are scanned for recognition at the park entrances and other fans are encouraged to report any fans who aren't allowed in the stadium.
It's not enough to throw up one's hands and say "It's difficult to ban these pricks for life." Life is hard. Get a helmet. Ban their asses for life, and take steps to enforce the ban to the best of the club's ability. Period.
It's not enough to throw up one's hands and say "It's difficult to ban these pricks for life." Life is hard. Get a helmet. Ban their asses for life, and take steps to enforce the ban to the best of the club's ability. Period.
30 ejections does bother me. Then again, I don't know how many there are each night on average, and how many there are in other cities. Context matters. Also, I assume that many were related to drunkenness, as opposed to something more insidious. Please do not read that as a whitewash of public drunkenness, I just think the difference matters somewhat.
Separately, I share in the positive reaction to the Sox statement and would love to see Jones cheered...in his first at bat.
If this happens again, anyone think someone like Mookie or JBJ would take a stand...and sit?
As a practical matter, there is going to be slippage. Just do the best you can.
I would hold season ticket holders strictly accountable. I have season tickets and would not ever pass them to a knucklehead or someone I do not know. Apart from doing the right thing -- at the very least you are not going to impose on your neighbors -- I'd never put myself in the position of losing the tickets as a result of the actions of some a-hole.
That is the most troublesome part of the whole thing for me too. But never underestimate human being's desire to avoid conflict. At least I hope that's it, and not that a whole crowd of people quietly enjoyed and supported it. Which would be worse.
As a practical matter, there is going to be slippage. Just do the best you can.
I would hold season ticket holders strictly accountable. I have season tickets and would not ever pass them to a knucklehead or someone I do not know. Apart from doing the right thing -- at the very least you are not going to impose on your neighbors -- I'd never put myself in the position of losing the tickets as a result of the actions of some a-hole.
Pretty sure the way it works for the Pats season tickets is that if you sell them through the team marketplace and someone acts up you dont have liability as a season ticket holder. If you scalp them to a random person and they act up, you get your tickets pulled. As a practical matter, the team has to offer some sort of way for season ticket holders to get liquidity for their tickets, particularly in baseball where there are 81 home games.
I would hold season ticket holders strictly accountable. I have season tickets and would not ever pass them to a knucklehead or someone I do not know. Apart from doing the right thing -- at the very least you are not going to impose on your neighbors -- I'd never put myself in the position of losing the tickets as a result of the actions of some a-hole.
Pretty sure the way it works for the Pats season tickets is that if you sell them through the team marketplace and someone acts up you dont have liability as a season ticket holder. If you scalp them to a random person and they act up, you get your tickets pulled. As a practical matter, the team has to offer some sort of way for season ticket holders to get liquidity for their tickets, particularly in baseball where there are 81 home games.
Maybe you wouldn't, but MLB encourages people to sell tickets to complete strangers.
Yeah, if I was going to the game tonight I'd stand and applaud him during his first at bat - not in support of Adam Jones, but out of detest of bigotry.
I am 100% in agreement with this. I'm also for the teams social media accounts to tell us every time it happens to reiterate the point for the jackwagons who don't get it.
In a reseller case they could ban the offending party from buying Fenway seats on that (official) reseller site. If they're not through an official reseller the original holder is at fault. This encourages ticket holders to sell through the official channels which is a win for the team and reseller as well.
According to an article in Forbes on April 3, 2016, based on a study of MLB stadium prices by interest rates aggregator GoBankingRates, the average cost for a couple to attend a game at Fenway Park for that season would be $157 per game.
So, you start by having no fans at games. Instead, you sell a television package for for the entire season for one team for X dollars. Fans who live a distance from the stadium no longer have to drive or find other transportation, thus saving time and money. The owners no longer have to pay for cleaning up the stadium afer games and things like that. They could revamp some of the seating area to lease as office space and when it came time to build new stadiums the cost would shrink considerably.
As for refreshments and souvenirs, clubs could set up neighborhood vendors who make home deliveries, helping local economies throughout the viewing regions.
Then someone else could get rich by inventing a selfie-app for those who want to synchronize the wave through cellphones.
So, you start by having no fans at games. Instead, you sell a television package for for the entire season for one team for X dollars. Fans who live a distance from the stadium no longer have to drive or find other transportation, thus saving time and money. The owners no longer have to pay for cleaning up the stadium afer games and things like that. They could revamp some of the seating area to lease as office space and when it came time to build new stadiums the cost would shrink considerably.
As for refreshments and souvenirs, clubs could set up neighborhood vendors who make home deliveries, helping local economies throughout the viewing regions.
Then someone else could get rich by inventing a selfie-app for those who want to synchronize the wave through cellphones.
I'd love to see this, but baseball is an inherently conservative (as in, don't make waves or changes) sport and I'd be pretty surprised if either guy did something like this, as they're both young players trying to concentrate on their season.
Seems like it's already happening to some degree.
A Yankees fan just emailed me that he heard the idea and expects it to happen.
But yeah, promotion from SoSH members is a good idea.
Because I don't have strong feeling either way about Jones, but I do have very strong feeling only one way about bigotry.
I don't know about Atlanta or NY, but tickets at Camden are about half what they are at Fenway. Seats that are $150+ at Fenway are $60-70 in Camden, and seats that are $30-60 are $15-20. In addition, on a lot of games the Eutaw street seats get released day of for $5.
As someone who grew up in Boston, and now lives in somewhat rural central VA, the idea that Boston is particularly racist is patently absurd. It's way worse down here.
You sit in an area where the tickets cost many hundreds of dollars. The bleachers last night were $10 (tier 5 game) and there are lots of those $9 student seats around.
The typical Fenway game has fewer than 5 folks kicked out. Many games have zero.
Two? Under what excuse do they get a second chance to be racist? ONE and DONE.
Love this
No, but you ban them from buying tickets and that will solve most of the problem.
Too many entrances, would slow down the process, and expensive. Tell them they are banned, ban them from buying tickets (e-mail address and address) and put the fear of Papi into them. Hell, make them MEET Big Papi and let him have a short chat with them.
More folks are removed each night due to "gravity" than due to "drunkeness". And general drunkeness and this act are quite different from each other.
Side note, but mistaken identity does happen. I've been at games when certain fans have been complete asses, and security comes down and ejects the wrong people.
So it's confirmed that a peanut bag was thrown at Jones. Is the part that actually involved racism confirmed?
Because throwing stuff at players is poor form, but it's not a Klan activity. It feels like there's lots of racing to accept Jones' claims and trash Boston fans here without any real corroboration.
Because throwing stuff at players is poor form, but it's not a Klan activity. It feels like there's lots of racing to accept Jones' claims and trash Boston fans here without any real corroboration.
I hope you understand the connection between peanuts and African Americans. And why that is racism in of itself.
No confirmation but per Kennedy on EEI 34 fans were ejected last night, one was the peanut thrower and one was ejected for unspecified "language directed at a player".
Which means "racist" language, given Jones' statements last night and the Sox' official apology today.
I really wish folks would not be so lathered to try to find some scenario where the racist statements did not happen. They undoubtedly did, and the Sox need to find a way to stop this from happening in the park.
I really wish folks would not be so lathered to try to find some scenario where the racist statements did not happen. They undoubtedly did, and the Sox need to find a way to stop this from happening in the park.
So "lathered"? I just wanted to hear some corroboration before I get on the "let's give Adam Jones a standing ovation for calling our city racist" train.
Whether or not Jones' allegations are accurate (FTR, I assume that they are), they are out there. Red Sox fans ovating (new word!) Jones sends the message that the actual or hypothetical racist fans do not represent Red Sox fans in general. That's a message I very much do feel and would like to announce were I able to be at tonights game.
To put it another way: I wish the event didn't happen but since it did (or at the very least is said to have happened), I'd love for Red Sox fans to use it as an opportunity to say "F. You, racism and racists."
To put it another way: I wish the event didn't happen but since it did (or at the very least is said to have happened), I'd love for Red Sox fans to use it as an opportunity to say "F. You, racism and racists."
So you think the Red Sox are lying when they apologized to Jones and said no player should be the subject of any kind of racism?
Sam Kennedy on EEI says 34 people were ejected last night, 20 due to alcohol reason. Said 12-15 ejections is a typical night.
Also said they believe Jones and are going to meet with Orioles' reps and Jones. They don't know who said what.
Also said they believe Jones and are going to meet with Orioles' reps and Jones. They don't know who said what.
It could be I guess or maybe a drunk idiot(which there were reports this guy was) had peanuts in his hand and threw them at the player.
This is different than the banana incident that was reported since peanuts are not an unusual snack item at the ball park while a banana most certainly is.
I believe Jones that he heard what he said he heard, I don't know if it was one person or more and I don't think it is an indication that Boston is more racist than any other city.
We don't need to fish for racism. Calling him the n-word is racist and stands on its own merit. Throwing a half bag of unwanted peanuts isn't racist. It's just fucking stupid.
I guess we had to have one member who would play the concern-troll. Wish I could say I'm surprised it was you, but I'm not.
That's where the black patrons were asked to sit in segregated theaters.
Whether that makes peanuts racist and if this drunk was literate enough to know that is another thing.
What are you looking for - a video confession from the culprits? A grand jury finding? There's enough there to generate an apology from the RS, and apparent corroboration of the general problem from Price.