USMNT: To Rüssia With Love

Titans Bastard

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I wasn't able to concentrate on tactics all that much, but what really jumped out at me was how wildly aggressive Panama was. I can't recall a CONCACAF opponent not named Mexico coming to the US and defending so consistently with so few numbers in the back. I'm used to 9-10 opposing players in the screen defending. Panama often had six.

The US is not at a high point in talent or form, but you can't do that in a road game against the USMNT and get away with it unless you are clearly superior in talent. Panama's manager was way too overconfident coming in.

Watching the US get so many opportunities in transition reminded me of Donovan's heyday. Pulisic is like Donovan on the counterattack, but if Donovan had much better dribbling, 1v1 skills in close quarters, and more of a killer instinct. Amazing.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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A couple of times on the break, teammates were zigging when he thought they might zag and he had to go with plan B. A couple of those plays you see in international soccer where guys just don't know each other well enough to know their tendencies. If they can close this out and get to Russia maybe the extended camp and time together will help with that, because it could really be special.

Interestingly, the guy I think he's had the most natural chemistry with in the recent games is Klejstan but hopefully with a little more time together with Josh, Wood and Dempsey we could see some sophisticated stuff.
 

Kliq

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I worry that as good as Pulisic is/is going to be, unless we develop a few other guys from his age group it isn't going to lead to a huge breakthrough in soccer. I fear we would basically be a CONCACAF version of Slovakia, with one world class player and a bunch of mediocre talent surrounding that one superstar.
 

Schnerres

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A propos Stadium:
There´s this superb stadium re-organized for the WC at Ekaterinburg. I mean I see where they come from (I live in a tiny 100k city, where we now have a 50k arena which is mostly halfway filled and the club and the city is overflooded with tons of debt for building this only because of the WC), but having a stand outside the arena? I would never pay 150€ for a seat to have the feeling of sitting on a skyscraper and spying into the arena from 50m away.
 

dirtynine

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Was out watching in a Philly bar (great crowd, there for the US but were just as gleeful about developments in the Yankee game as a Boston crowd would have been). I am not a tactician or game-play analyst, but I thought Altidore had a really strong game. The tap-in was as easy as it was because of his movement. He demanded coverage that seemed to free up Wood. The A-P-W attack really had chemistry, with roles and positioning that played to individual advantages and complimented one another. Jozy is not great when we depend on him to spearhead the attack, but he adds a lot when you mix him in with other creative players. By that I mean that if you could clone Wood, I don’t think a Wood-Pulisic-Wood attack wouldn’t have done as well, even though I like Wood as an individual striker more than Jozy.

But as I said, analysis is not my strong suit. Hell, maybe it’s just CP making everybody shine.

As TB noted, it was really fun to see counter-attacks into wide-open space again. Didn’t expect that. Probably due to the 2002-era team, punchy, counter-attacking underrated underdog remains my favorite version of USMNT to watch. I know we are working to evolve past those days, but even after we grow into a hybrid of 70s Holland and 2010s Barca and are sick of winning™, I’ll still love that identity.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Because of the huge difference in goal differential, the US could basically clinch at least a playoff tie tomorrow if Honduras loses to Costa Rica. And unless Panama can run up the score on CR Tuesday, a point against T&T should get them 3rd place and a ticket to Russia.
The good thing is that CR still has something to play for against Honduras tonight which hopefully blocks any attempt by CR and MEX to try to put HON through by tanking.
 

Infield Infidel

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Was out watching in a Philly bar (great crowd, there for the US but were just as gleeful about developments in the Yankee game as a Boston crowd would have been). I am not a tactician or game-play analyst, but I thought Altidore had a really strong game. The tap-in was as easy as it was because of his movement. He demanded coverage that seemed to free up Wood. The A-P-W attack really had chemistry, with roles and positioning that played to individual advantages and complimented one another. Jozy is not great when we depend on him to spearhead the attack, but he adds a lot when you mix him in with other creative players. By that I mean that if you could clone Wood, I don’t think a Wood-Pulisic-Wood attack wouldn’t have done as well, even though I like Wood as an individual striker more than Jozy.

But as I said, analysis is not my strong suit. Hell, maybe it’s just CP making everybody shine.

As TB noted, it was really fun to see counter-attacks into wide-open space again. Didn’t expect that. Probably due to the 2002-era team, punchy, counter-attacking underrated underdog remains my favorite version of USMNT to watch. I know we are working to evolve past those days, but even after we grow into a hybrid of 70s Holland and 2010s Barca and are sick of winning™, I’ll still love that identity.
Spot on about Wood. If we are playing any formation with one up top, Wood's just better at playing horizontally across the field and getting into positions to receive the ball from midfield and spearheading an attack.

Jozy has always been better off playing off smaller quicker guys and getting into space. Donovan, Davies, Giovinco with TFC. I'm not that surprised that he worked well with Wood and Pulisic, especially given the kind of space he got yesterday. He's much better using his body for movement and contact away from the ball, and for one touch flicks to play guys in, than he is moving with the ball. Wood's a bit of a wildcard in that he can play alone and along with Jozy. Wood can move but he's also so stout for a smaller guy.
 

Titans Bastard

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Bruce needs to seriously consider switching to a 3-5-2 as a primary formation heading into the WC. As @Cellar-Door noted, last night's formation doesn't offer enough steel in the midfield to deal with top teams.
Arena seems to agree, as he only uses it at home against non-MEX/CR opposition.

(I would have loved to see our DM take a yellow by sending a message to the Panamanian players gunning for CP, but Bradley has been sitting on a yellow card suspension since the first Costa Rica game in November '16. Either way, against top teams Bradley can only do so much.)

A 3-5-2 could offer a more robust midfield while still making the Pulisic-Wood-Altidore triangle possible. I think we have the horses at wingback to make it happen. Villafaña's game is probably better suited to wingback anyway, and Fabian Johnson is perfectly capable of playing there, too. At RWB, obviously Yedlin starts but I think Arriola would be a much better backup at WB than Zusi. Arriola busts his ass, covers a ton of ground, and does a lot of dirty work.

Wood --- Altidore
Pulisic
Bradley --- CM
Johnson -----------------------------Yedlin
Brooks -- Cameron -- Miazga
GK
CM = Acosta, Bedoya, Roldan, Williams, or McKennie
 

InstaFace

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From that article:

Because of his build – and perhaps because our first lasting memory of him with the national team was his bullying of Joan Capdevila as a 19-year-old in 2009 – Altidore has long been pigeonholed by American soccer fans as a target man. As a muscular, physical No. 9 whose athleticism and strength allow him to lead the line, get in the box, and score goals. The real Jozy doesn’t quite fit that description.

Or at least it’s not the only description he fits. He’s also a support striker in a No. 9’s body. On some occasions, that dichotomy leaves him lost in a game that wants to see him as something he’s not, or when he sees himself as something he’s not. But at other times, it’s a blessing.
As long as nobody expects him to have the play style of Olivier Giroud or Diego Costa, he does a number of things quite well. It's his fault, really, for being built like a tank. If he looked like Paul Arriola people would say "his best skill is his passing touch and vision" and judge him on that. Let the Clint Dempseys and Bobby Woods be judged on goals.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I think we all need to love Jozy for what he is instead of perpetually being disappointed that he is not what we want him to be.

Same phenomenon a microcosm for the whole program maybe?

12 goals in the last two hexagonals.

Edit: sorry, it is ten not twelve for Jozy
 
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SoxFanInCali

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Jozy actually reminds me of Peter Crouch when he was with Liverpool. Both guys aren't what you expect when you first see them (Crouch wasn't a great header of the ball despite his height), but they're very good at bringing others into the game and setting them up. The play where he touched it over to Pulisic for his breakaway goal reminded me of the interplay Crouch would have with Gerrard.

The biggest problem with Jozy has always been his health, and the seeming lack of a plan B should he be out.
 

Titans Bastard

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A late equalizer from Costa Rica means that a draw against T&T will almost certainly put the US through. The GD advantage that the US has over PAN and HON is so great that all the tiebreakers favor us.
 

Titans Bastard

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As long as nobody expects him to have the play style of Olivier Giroud or Diego Costa, he does a number of things quite well. It's his fault, really, for being built like a tank. If he looked like Paul Arriola people would say "his best skill is his passing touch and vision" and judge him on that. Let the Clint Dempseys and Bobby Woods be judged on goals.
Jozy is still 27 for another month and is already the third highest scorer in American history.

I think we all need to love Jozy for what he is instead of perpetually being disappointed that he is not what we want him to be.

Same phenomenon a microcosm for the whole program maybe?

12 goals in the last two hexagonals.
We have a history of underappreciating our better players at the time. He ended his career as a beloved USMNT player, so people often forget that Brian McBride was shat upon for much of his tenure with the national team.

At CM, it's the same story with Bradley and Reyna.

Players who fail to live out the dreams of insecure US fans with their careers in Europe get it the worst - Donovan, most of all. It's one thing to believe that players aren't reaching their potential by staying in / going to the US, it's another thing to pretend that such a decision has made them worse than they actually are/were.
 

JimBoSox9

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Boyo that's a distinction without a difference, unless we can go back in time and make different choices with reality. Playing against better competition makes one better over the long term, that's just a fundamental truth that you need specific evidence to override.
 

Titans Bastard

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Boyo that's a distinction without a difference, unless we can go back in time and make different choices with reality. Playing against better competition makes one better over the long term, that's just a fundamental truth that you need specific evidence to override.
It's absolutely not a distinction without a difference.

You can believe that players would be better in Europe. That's fine. But what I'm saying is that annoyance with such player decisions has caused certain players to be rated lower than their true level in MLS. So if they'd be an 8 in Europe and are a 6 in MLS, people speak of them as though they're actually a 4.
 

Titans Bastard

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It's USA vs. Ghana! 2006, 2010, 2014 World Cups, 2013 U20 World Cup, and now 2017 U17 World Cup.

  • 1Justin GARCES (GK)
  • 2Jaylin LINDSEY
  • 3Chris GLOSTER
  • 4James SANDS
  • 6Chris DURKIN
  • 8Blaine FERRI
  • 9Josh SARGENT (C)
  • 10Tim WEAH
  • 11Andrew CARLETON
  • 13Sergino DEST
  • 20Chris GOSLIN

I think this will look like:

Carleton - Sargent - Weah
Ferri - Durkin - Goslin
Gloster - Sands - Lindsey - Dest
Garces​

It's a slightly more defensive lineup than the one used against India, which makes sense. Dest comes in at RB, Lindsey shifts from RB to CB, Durkin shifts from CB to DM, Carleton shifts from CAM to LW, and Akinola goes to the bench.

Current weather in New Delhi: 94 F, 35% humidity
 

soxfan121

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Boyo that's a distinction without a difference, unless we can go back in time and make different choices with reality. Playing against better competition makes one better over the long term, that's just a fundamental truth that you need specific evidence to override.
I love TB, but he is never going to admit MLS is a detrimental shitshow. I dunno why - maybe he's really Don Garber? - but the idea that MLS is somewhat akin to playing (for example) in the Eredivisie is an opinion he has not wavered on for at least 8 years, if not more.

OF COURSE playing against better competition is better for development, except when MLS's honor is to be defended, in which case playing for the Chicago Fire is just as good as playing for Vitesse. Never mind that most of the players in MLS would be bagging groceries if Don Garber weren't fixated on selling an inferior American knock-off brand of a good foreign product. The quality of play in MLS is, for anyone who watches the game without a rooting interest, much lower than the EPL's 2nd tier and doesn't match any foreign-domestic league I've seen. MLS players consistently fail to make an impact at the international level and with rare exceptions, are the least skilled, least sporting players on the pitch.

There is not one example of a player who stayed or returned to MLS being "good". Some guys like Bradley and Altidore might have gotten there, but they opted for big fish in a little pond status, and the money, and have regressed as players.

There's a reason America's best player - at age 19! - has spent his entire professional career in one of the best, most competitive leagues in the world, fighting for playing time at one of the top clubs. But yeah... that isn't as important as whether the player loves America.

Good thing Pulisic got hisself an @DrewDawg approved tattoo:

 

Titans Bastard

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I don't think you actually read my response, in which I actually said the thing you are bitching about.

EDIT: This exchange is actually an example of what I'm talking about.

Paraphrasing my earlier comment, players who are an 8 in Europe might become a 6 in MLS, but are treated by the US fanbase like they've become a 4. i.e., they tend to get more stick than they deserve. Altidore is playing some of the best soccer of his career right now, but can the DH3 of MLS @soxfan121 admit it? Nope.

Not one single example of a player who stayed or returned to MLS being good? Really? Are you even trying or paying attention at all?
 
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Titans Bastard

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0-0 in the 25th minute. US has had a few close chances but hasn't finished. Chris Durkin at DM has impressed me most so far. Strong in defense, poised in distribution and twisting out of traffic.
 

soxfan121

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I don't think you actually read my response, in which I actually said the thing you are bitching about.

EDIT: This exchange is actually an example of what I'm talking about.

Paraphrasing my earlier comment, players who are an 8 in Europe might become a 6 in MLS, but are treated by the US fanbase like they've become a 4. i.e., they tend to get more stick than they deserve. Altidore is playing some of the best soccer of his career right now, but can the DH3 of MLS @soxfan121 admit it? Nope.

Not one single example of a player who stayed or returned to MLS being good? Really? Are you even trying or paying attention at all?
Really? We're gonna go with insults from now on? I suppose when your argument is so weak you have no choice but to resort to name calling. Good show.

Altidore scored 23 goals in the Eredivisie. Please show your work on "the best soccer of his career".

Which player(s) who stayed or returned to MLS have gotten objectively "better"?

Keep on Baghdad Bobbing this up, TB. ;-)
 

Titans Bastard

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Really? We're gonna go with insults from now on? I suppose when your argument is so weak you have no choice but to resort to name calling. Good show.
Well, you began your opening paragraph by implying that I'm dishonest. Then you intentionally truncated what I wrote ("some of the best soccer of his career") in order to take my argument out of context. And you've never addressed what I actually wrote and have now clarified multiple times.

We're now onto Phase Two of this trolling effort (goalpost-moving!), so I'll call it a day.
 

soxfan121

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Well, you began your opening paragraph by implying that I'm dishonest.
I meant to imply you are stubborn, and that through eight plus years of arguing about it, you haven't wavered on your opinion that the development of a (worthwhile?) domestic league would be best for the overall program.

Is that wrong?

I did not mean to suggest you are "dishonest"; I disagree strongly with that. We've been at odds on this issue for a very long time but at no point have I thought you were dishonest about it.

I guess a joking reference to you literally BEING Don Garber was inappropriate? I apologize if my intent was unclear and I hope this clarifies.

Then you intentionally truncated what I wrote ("some of the best soccer of his career") in order to take my argument out of context.
Well, I didn't actually address your argument. I dismissed it. I acknowledged it - that you've had the opposite take for a long time - in response to what JimBoSox wrote. I didn't take your argument out of context.

But really, "the best soccer of his career" when the numbers say different, requires some clarification from you.

And you've never addressed what I actually wrote and have now clarified multiple times.
I'm certain I've addressed this point so many times you've decided to name-call over it. ;-)

But to be clear, I think your argument is bullshit. MLS has not done any favors for the development of players who were overseas but were lured home with outsized paydays. It has largely ruined a generation of players. Not one of them has gotten better since joining MLS.

I believe these to be facts. I have, on several occasions, provided evidence. You feel differently. And that's OK.

We're now onto Phase Two of this trolling effort (goalpost-moving!), so I'll call it a day.
C'mon man. Unless you ARE Don Garber, there's no "trolling" here - I am a fan who has a different opinion on what is best for the NT program.

Again, I apologize if I was unclear. I've always appreciated your effort, and fandom, and the discussions. That you feel I'm "trolling" is disappointing, frankly.

Unless you're really Don Garber. In which case, you're a fucking idiot who should go flush your own head down the nearest toilet.
 

Titans Bastard

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1-0 FT, US beats Ghana on a strike from Ayo Akinola. Not a great performance, but not bad either. Sargent did a lot of nice little things, but didn't have a huge impact in part because Weah doesn't seem to be great on the wing and Carleton had a bad game at LW. Durkin at DM was really, really good. He was cleaning up messes and cutting out passes everywhere and his passing was comfortable. The defense had a fairly solid game too. The two CMs, Goslin and Ferri, were okay but not great.

Akinola brings a lot of power and pace, but he doesn't look like a great prospect in my eyes. His technique is only okay and he failed to make an obvious pass on several occasions.

US now just needs a tie against Colombia to win the group and have pretty much guaranteed passage to the R16.
 

Infield Infidel

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I've been impressed by Durkin. He has good size, he ain't afraid of contact, and he almost always finds himself in the right place. In the India match there were two or three instances when the US turned the ball over in its own half and Durkin just happened to be right there to clean it up.
 
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wonderland

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In the short period I watched (middle of first half), Durkin really impressed me. That turn he made was really nice.
 

InstaFace

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So here we are, the final day, and with far less angst and pressure than on Friday. All matches simultaneous at 8pm, with Panama hosting CRC and Honduras hosting Mexico.

- Win or draw, and we're in the World Cup, barring black-swan-grade scorelines elsewhere.
- Lose, with either Panama or Honduras winning, and we're playing off against the AFC next month.
- Lose, with both Panama and Honduras winning, and we're out.

Our history against T&T is 18-4-3 all time, 12-2-1 since 1994, but only 3-2-1 on their grounds in that time. The loss was in 2008 in the non-hex group stage of 2010 WCQ (youtube highlight reel), and we featured Guzan, Beasley, Altidore and Kljestan. The North had best Remember.
 

Titans Bastard

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T&T's roster is pretty crap and they'll even be without one of their best players (Molino) who is suspended. The conditions will undoubtedly make this an ugly game, but let's just get the three points.

It's annoying that this match overlaps so heavily with the CONMEBOL madness tonight.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Despite only three points, T&T has been relatively stout at home. They have allowed only 5 goals.

And, of course, they don't get to play themselves, so that has been against pretty good competition. And, through 9 matchdays, their win home against Panama is set to be the result that helps define the entire hexagonal in terms of the third automatic qualification spot.

After the second matchday, I think any one of us would have taken only needing a draw at T&T for auto qualification on the last matchday, but that doesn't mean it's going to be easy.
 

InstaFace

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Shit, I'd settle for "get out of there with only minor injuries". Or major injuries to minor players. The World Cup starts June 14th, we got time for just about anything short of an ACL tear.
 

DJnVa

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Same lineup:

1-Tim Howard, 2-DeAndre Yedlin, 3-Omar Gonzalez, 4-Michael Bradley, 5-Matt Besler, 6-Darlington Nagbe, 9-Bobby Wood, 10-Christian Pulisic,15-Jorge Villafaña, 17-Jozy Altidore, 21-Paul Arriola
 

InstaFace

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I respect that Arena isn't tinkering for the sake of tinkering. Tinker tomorrow; tonight, we qualify, leaving no room for questions about not playing our best 11.
 

Titans Bastard

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Same lineup:

1-Tim Howard, 2-DeAndre Yedlin, 3-Omar Gonzalez, 4-Michael Bradley, 5-Matt Besler, 6-Darlington Nagbe, 9-Bobby Wood, 10-Christian Pulisic,15-Jorge Villafaña, 17-Jozy Altidore, 21-Paul Arriola
I'm surprised Arena didn't rotate at all, given his past choices.

We should see pretty quickly whether it's a mistake or not give Bradley more support centrally. In theory we should have the horses to run rampant against T&T and not have to worry about it.
 

Titans Bastard

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Also, there have been murmurings in the press that Pulisic has some sort of calf issue. Something to look out for if he doesn't look as sharp as he did on Friday.
 

Titans Bastard

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BeIN is an improvement. Away games used to be frequently on PPV only.

I think the sale of these rights is supposed to be shady, even after Traffic's shenanigans were exposed.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
Yeah, we are spoiled in all facets of watching soccer these days. I remember having to pay $20-$30 cover charges in bars that would pony up the fees for the broadcasts.