Alex Cora's first season

Boggs26

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Also, he might not have been a 1st rounder, but he was a 3rd rounder who played for 14 years in MLB, it's not like he's some AAAA guy who was randomly handed a managing gig...
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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The only thing that makes me intensely dislike baseball, is baseball’s book of unwritten rules. It’s like high tea at Buckingham Palace with these guys.

Who the hell is Phil Nevin? Who cares that he was a former number one pick? From what I remember he was a bit of a prick back then.

And Mike Scioscia is the measuring stick? Get out of here with that crap.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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The only thing that makes me intensely dislike baseball, is baseball’s book of unwritten rules. It’s like high tea at Buckingham Palace with these guys.

Who the hell is Phil Nevin? Who cares that he was a former number one pick? From what I remember he was a bit of a prick back then.

And Mike Scioscia is the measuring stick? Get out of here with that crap.
You may be confusing him with PhilNevin23
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Definitely room for improvement, I expected a (quick) learning curve but so far I'm very happy with him. The one issue that he's dealing with though is the strange bench. However... with Hanley possibly injured and out, it makes more sense. If everyone is healthy it's one of the most oddly constructed benches I've seen but of course that's more on DD than Cora
 

Rasputin

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No, I do not think he should have sat immediately after his performance on Tuesday night.
You keep saying this like it's a reason to do anything. It's not. Benintendi wasn't working out of a slump, adjusting his mechanics or anything. His approach was fine and the hits weren't coming. There's zero gained by making sure to play him the day after they started coming. Zero.
 

TheoShmeo

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You keep saying this like it's a reason to do anything. It's not. Benintendi wasn't working out of a slump, adjusting his mechanics or anything. His approach was fine and the hits weren't coming. There's zero gained by making sure to play him the day after they started coming. Zero.
It's hard to argue with the notion that sitting him down in game 2 was not a problem after he went 2-5 in game 3. Then again, you wrote this after we saw the results.

Either way, hat tip to @Merkle's Boner for making the point well in advance and making it well.

Being Red Sox Wrong in these kinds of circumstances is nothing but good. So I'll wear it proudly.
 

joe dokes

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It's hard to argue with the notion that sitting him down in game 2 was not a problem after he went 2-5 in game 3. Then again, you wrote this after we saw the results.

Either way, hat tip to @Merkle's Boner for making the point well in advance and making it well.

Being Red Sox Wrong in these kinds of circumstances is nothing but good. So I'll wear it proudly.

Actually, I think it would be just as hard to argue the point if he went 0-40 last night. YMMV.
 

joe dokes

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My mileage varies a lot. But at least you're consistent.
First you said you weren't reacting to the loss when you said that benintendi should have been in the lineup for game 2 vs NYY:
Second, my Cora observation had NOTHING to do with the loss. Telling me to get used to it is pedantic and flat wrong. Other posters made the point in the game thread BEFORE the game, I agreed with them then, and I decided to note it in the thread about Cora. I'm in the NY area, am stuck with YES during games that are not nationally televised and even the Yankees announcers were saying that sitting AB was curious given that he had hit well the night before and had been cold before then.
But now you say its OK to judge the wisdom of his sitting after he has a good game after siting:
It's hard to argue with the notion that sitting him down in game 2 was not a problem after he went 2-5 in game 3.
My point is that the game before OR the game after have nothing to do with the wisdom of sitting him. Your point is that you think the Sox would be 15-0 with you at the helm.
 

Reverend

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The only thing that makes me intensely dislike baseball, is baseball’s book of unwritten rules. It’s like high tea at Buckingham Palace with these guys.

Who the hell is Phil Nevin? Who cares that he was a former number one pick? From what I remember he was a bit of a prick back then.

And Mike Scioscia is the measuring stick? Get out of here with that crap.
Do you think we could make a baseball version of Morning Crescent?

Does @URI still exist? He would excel at something like this.
 

JimBoSox9

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Do you think we could make a baseball version of Morning Crescent?

Does @URI still exist? He would excel at something like this.
It's timely, because there's definitely an epochal Catholic/Protestant split shaping up over the acceptance of retaliatory plunking. Bryce Harper isn't the Martin Luthor we need, but he's the Martin Luthor we deserve.
 

TheoShmeo

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First you said you weren't reacting to the loss when you said that benintendi should have been in the lineup for game 2 vs NYY:


But now you say its OK to judge the wisdom of his sitting after he has a good game after siting:


My point is that the game before OR the game after have nothing to do with the wisdom of sitting him. Your point is that you think the Sox would be 15-0 with you at the helm.
I'm guessing this is meant as a joke or an attempt at a witty parting shot. Or maybe you actually think that. No matter, it's an abject failure on your part either way.

The tone of my remarks was that I thought it was a mistake to sit AB after a slow start followed by a great game, and I quickly acknowledged that @Merkle's Boner made a good point that maybe this stuff is much more in fans and media members' heads than reality. And yes, I do believe that had AB gone 0-40 starting with game 3 of the Yankees series, that it would have tended to support that removing him from game 2 would have been a blunder.

But damn, I'm not particularly dug in on this point about Cora. That was my view but who knows, maybe it was wrong. I have written above that I think he's doing a fantastic job. I love his demeanor and self deprecating manner. I like how he handled Phil Nevin. I like his Xs and Os thus far.

The point is that we should be able to discuss individual moves without an implication that anyone thinks that Cora is an idiot or that any of us is somehow more qualified to manage the Sox. What a bizarre notion in my case.

I get it. You are either fixated on me or just generally miserable (maybe it's both), and without total surrender to your position, that you will continue to post these little barbs.

Here's to Alex Cora and his apparently correct decision to give Andrew Benintendi a day off, regardless of his good at bats in game 1 of the Yankees series. And here's to debating individual moves he makes going forward without this level of bullshit.
 
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BaseballJones

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Not sure how much of this goes to Cora or the launch angle revolution (TM), but as of right now, here's where the Sox' offense is in the AL rankings:

Runs - 2nd
HR - 12th
Avg - 2nd
OBP - 1st
SLG - 2nd
OPS - 2nd
XBH - 1st

So they're raking. We're basically seeing the combination of one of the best pitching staffs with an elite-performing offense, along with a solid defense, and the result is 12-2. I think we'll see some regression in all these areas (including the W-L record, obviously), but this is a very encouraging start.

BTW, JD Martinez' last 8 games: 11-33 (.333), 5 r, 2 2b, 1 3b, 3 hr, 11 rbi

And several really loud outs to the deepest parts of the ballpark. Slash line for April: .302/.304/.605/.909
 

JimD

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There's been a lot made about the Sox having such an easy schedule to start the year, but it should be pointed out that the Cubs faced what appeared to be a similarly easy start to their 2018 season and have gone only 7-7 thus far, including a split to the dreadful Marlins and only one series win thus far.
 

PrometheusWakefield

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I give Cora a ton of credit right now for committing to Hanley in the three spot in our lineup. I thought that was a highly questionable decision, as of two months ago I viewed Hanley as a pretty marginal player on this roster. Cora made it clear with his lineup that he viewed Hanley as a primary component of this offense and Hanley has responded by reminding us all how much talent this guy has.

I think if Cora had used Hanley the way I had envisioned - platooned and batting out of the six or seven spot - it might be a different story.
 

Rasputin

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There's been a lot made about the Sox having such an easy schedule to start the year, but it should be pointed out that the Cubs faced what appeared to be a similarly easy start to their 2018 season and have gone only 7-7 thus far, including a split to the dreadful Marlins and only one series win thus far.
Yeah, the schedule stuff has always been a little bit true and a lot bit nonsense. Really good teams crush the hell out of mediocre and bad teams. The Red Sox are crushing the hell out of mediocre and bad teams. They've also made the pre-season favorite New York Yankees look pretty mediocre. The Baltimore Orioles, who took three out of four in New York just managed to kinda make a game interesting for the first time this series.

The Red Sox probably aren't 13-2 without playing the nine games against the Florida teams, but they aren't much worse.

Meanwhile, the Yankees have a really tough month of May with series against Boston, Cleveland, LAA, and two against Houston. If things keep going well--obviously not 140-win pace well, but well--this team is going to be in control of this division heading into the trade deadline.
 

Al Zarilla

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I give Cora a ton of credit right now for committing to Hanley in the three spot in our lineup. I thought that was a highly questionable decision, as of two months ago I viewed Hanley as a pretty marginal player on this roster. Cora made it clear with his lineup that he viewed Hanley as a primary component of this offense and Hanley has responded by reminding us all how much talent this guy has.

I think if Cora had used Hanley the way I had envisioned - platooned and batting out of the six or seven spot - it might be a different story.
I heard Cora say that he visited Hanley (somewhere) before the season started, and Hanley said he was good to go, everything was fine with him and he was totally ready for the season. Cora believed him, put him third in the lineup and all is good (so far).

Did Cora do a tour before the season visiting all the players?
 

chawson

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Yeah, the schedule stuff has always been a little bit true and a lot bit nonsense. Really good teams crush the hell out of mediocre and bad teams. The Red Sox are crushing the hell out of mediocre and bad teams. They've also made the pre-season favorite New York Yankees look pretty mediocre. The Baltimore Orioles, who took three out of four in New York just managed to kinda make a game interesting for the first time this series.

The Red Sox probably aren't 13-2 without playing the nine games against the Florida teams, but they aren't much worse.

Meanwhile, the Yankees have a really tough month of May with series against Boston, Cleveland, LAA, and two against Houston. If things keep going well--obviously not 140-win pace well, but well--this team is going to be in control of this division heading into the trade deadline.
It’s a long way off, but I’d love to see the Yanks as the ones having to beat Ohtani in a single-elimination WC match.

A 5.5-game division lead over them on April 15 really rips. Seems to be a different culture throughout the clubhouse, much less stressed than Farrell’s.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I'm glad this thread hasn't been bumped to complain more about the manager, but the wailing elsewhere about the bench and who is playing and who isn't is incredible. Truly the fellowship of the miserable as someone once said.

This team is 14-2 and some folks just want to complain about the lineup and the use of the starters and the bullpen? Really?
 

Rasputin

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Maybe I'm reading wrong, but I see talking not complaining.

Also, 10% of the way through the season we're 14% of the way to a completely arbitrary milestone that nobody cares about.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Maybe I'm reading wrong, but I see talking not complaining.

Also, 10% of the way through the season we're 14% of the way to a completely arbitrary milestone that nobody cares about.
Yeah, seems like mostly talking to me too aside from a couple obsessive folks. The only realistic complaint has been those wanting to see less Holt and more Lin while Bogaerts is down. But it's a minor and possibly moot thing if Holt is going to start hitting as he's shown the last few days.
 

tims4wins

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The What's Up With These Red Sox thread was closed, so this is probably the next best place.

538 currently has the Sox at 101 wins, 65% to win the division, and 14% to win it all
Fangraphs has the Sox at 99 wins, 65% to win the division, and a shade above 11% to win it all (though that appears to not be updated yet for today)
 

tonyarmasjr

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Yeah, seems like mostly talking to me too aside from a couple obsessive folks. The only realistic complaint has been those wanting to see less Holt and more Lin while Bogaerts is down. But it's a minor and possibly moot thing if Holt is going to start hitting as he's shown the last few days.
Yeah, the discussions are about the 25th/26th guy on the roster and whether the starters should be pitching more innings in all their wins. If those are the worst of our problems...
 

chrisfont9

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These are rather murky perceptions by me but I am beyond shocked how much more prepared the Sox seem compared to last year. Maybe it's just a fresh start or a number of things. Or maybe I had no idea just how bad the coaching staff was last season. They just seem so prepared every day, so locked in, and have been since early March.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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These are rather murky perceptions by me but I am beyond shocked how much more prepared the Sox seem compared to last year. Maybe it's just a fresh start or a number of things. Or maybe I had no idea just how bad the coaching staff was last season. They just seem so prepared every day, so locked in, and have been since early March.
Its crazy that coaching staffs actually can affect performance, and aren't just there to talk to the press.


Huge fan of Cora so far. The first 16 games of the season count just as much as the last 16 - and its much nicer to have teams chasing us than be chasing other teams.
 

bosockboy

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These are rather murky perceptions by me but I am beyond shocked how much more prepared the Sox seem compared to last year. Maybe it's just a fresh start or a number of things. Or maybe I had no idea just how bad the coaching staff was last season. They just seem so prepared every day, so locked in, and have been since early March.
Without a doubt. A manager's biggest contribution to me is having a great camp, and having the team playing crisp baseball from the get go. They look in midseason form on offense and pitching. Extremely impressed with Cora, and Levangie also.
 

uncannymanny

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If nothing else I’m loving his rest approach compared to Farrell’s grind-them-to-a-nub version.

I do wonder how much of this is the players themselves, though. Lots of talk this offseason was about how they carried themselves mentally, the Papi hangover, and in general just having fun playing ball. They look like they solved issues and I think that is really on the players.

Of course, it takes a solid support group. I haven’t heard much from the coaches other than Cora, but I’m excited to hear what approaches they’ve taken with regards to the team’s success so far.
 

chrisfont9

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If nothing else I’m loving his rest approach compared to Farrell’s grind-them-to-a-nub version.

I do wonder how much of this is the players themselves, though. Lots of talk this offseason was about how they carried themselves mentally, the Papi hangover, and in general just having fun playing ball. They look like they solved issues and I think that is really on the players.

Of course, it takes a solid support group. I haven’t heard much from the coaches other than Cora, but I’m excited to hear what approaches they’ve taken with regards to the team’s success so far.
Tito was always great at the rest approach. I thought that Farrell had inherited it in 2013, but he obviously forgot all of it along the way.

As to the players, the down cycles of last year are progressing back to the mean, so it's not all about Cora. But some of it is, for certain.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Here's a look at how the pitching big dogs have been used this year compared to last year:

2017:
Sale first 4 starts: 29.2 IP, 425 pitches, 108 batters faced.
2018:
Sale first 4 starts: 22 IP, 365 pitches, 85 batters faced.
7.2 fewer IP, 60 fewer pitches thrown, 23 fewer batters faced.

2017:
Price first 4 starts (coming back from injury, starting May 29): 23 IP, 390 pitches, 98 batters faced.
2018:
Price first 4 starts (one shortened to 1 inning by injury): 20 IP, 280 pitches, 50 batters faced.
Obviously it's hard to compare directly since Price had different issues both years. In 2017, Price came back from injury in late May and pitched 5 innings, 88 pitches. His next start, he went 7 innings, with 92 pitches. His next 9 starts, he threw over 100 pitches each time, then went on the DL for about 2 months and came back as a reliever.

2017:
Porcello first 3 starts: 16.2 IP, 304 pitches, 79 batters faced.
2018:
Porcello first 3 starts: 19.2 IP, 282 pitches, 75 batters faced.

More IP, because he's been throwing the ball much better. But 22 fewer pitches thrown.


2017:
Kimbrel through April 18: 7 games, 7 IP, 117 pitches, 27 batters faced.
2018:
Kimbrel: 7 games, 7 IP, 112 pitches, 26 batters faced.

Almost identical totals for Kimbrel.
 

luckysox

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Both. I expect (hope) he will be more productive than Nunez has been but I just hope he buys in to what Cora is doing.
I'd think at this point in his career - which is to say at the tail end - he's watching what's happening with these young guys right now and is drooling in anticipation of being a part of what could be an awfully special season one more time in his career. Lord knows you can't count on making the playoffs or winning a WS in any season, so when you're a veteran with a bum knee looking at the last part of your career, coming onto a team like this mid-season, I'd think you're pretty excited. I expect this is true for Pedey, and I expect he'll happily slide into the back end of the line up if and when he is ready.
 

Al Zarilla

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Both?

He's a clear defensive upgrade. Probably an overall offensive upgrade too, but he shouldn't bat 2nd in this lineup. Wonder how (or if) Cora is going to make that call.
Both. I expect (hope) he will be more productive than Nunez has been but I just hope he buys in to what Cora is doing.
Both, yes. I’ve always seen him as an excellent team player, last year’s disaster with Machado and its side effects notwithstanding. He should buy into what Cora is selling. I don’t know where Cora will slot him in initially, but I like this.

Betts
Pedroia
Beni
Hanley
JD
X
Devers
JBJ
Vazquez

What a lineup. Or, you could move Pedroia down to 7th and move Beni through Devers up. Still, I think Cora etc. might put him second in honor of his exceptional career. Batting orders don’t matter a whole bunch, right?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Tito was always great at the rest approach. I thought that Farrell had inherited it in 2013, but he obviously forgot all of it along the way.
In retrospect, I wonder if Farrell's apparent change to pushing his starters too hard was driven by team performance and thus job security. Like you mention, in 2013 he seemed to balance everything just about right. Then the team shit the bed in 2014 and 2015 so he approached 2016 by more aggressively riding his stars. They won the division so he repeated himself in 2017.

The thing about Tito is, like Farrell, he won it all in his first year, but unlike Farrell, his teams never really stopped winning. Sure there was 2006 and 2010 but even those teams were still well over .500 despite missing the post-season. Between maybe June 2004 and September 2011, there were rarely even whispers that his job was in jeopardy. He never had to manage the regular season like his job depended on success and by and large it worked.
 

Merkle's Boner

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Regarding Pedroia's return and where to place him in the batting order, assuming Beni is hitting the ball well when Pedey's ready, I would prefer to see him toward the bottom of the lineup. I just don't like the idea of moving everyone down one spot whenthey are all performing at or above expectations.

Let Pedey earn the #2 spot.
 

nvalvo

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I would put Pedroia ninth to start, to work him in. He's coming back from knee surgery, so I'm not sure maximizing his PA should be the focus from the get go.

R Betts
L Benintendi
R Ramirez
R Martinez
L Devers
R Bogaerts
L Bradley
R/S Catcher
R Pedroia

Reevaluate as appropriate, but putting Pedroia's .366 career OBP in front of a guy who's been hitting for considerable power makes some sense anyways.
 

chrisfont9

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In retrospect, I wonder if Farrell's apparent change to pushing his starters too hard was driven by team performance and thus job security. Like you mention, in 2013 he seemed to balance everything just about right. Then the team shit the bed in 2014 and 2015 so he approached 2016 by more aggressively riding his stars. They won the division so he repeated himself in 2017.

The thing about Tito is, like Farrell, he won it all in his first year, but unlike Farrell, his teams never really stopped winning. Sure there was 2006 and 2010 but even those teams were still well over .500 despite missing the post-season. Between maybe June 2004 and September 2011, there were rarely even whispers that his job was in jeopardy. He never had to manage the regular season like his job depended on success and by and large it worked.
Good point. I assign Tito more integrity than Farrell, but Farrell was hardly the first manager to panic under the pressure of losing. He also panicked while they were winning the division, so yeah, time for a change.
 

joe dokes

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Regarding Pedroia's return and where to place him in the batting order, assuming Beni is hitting the ball well when Pedey's ready, I would prefer to see him toward the bottom of the lineup. I just don't like the idea of moving everyone down one spot when they are all performing at or above expectations.

Let Pedey earn the #2 spot.

If he was a strat-o-matic card, I'd agree with this. But I dont think you immediately drop to 7th a player with his history, who has been out because he played all last season with a knee that needed surgery. Whatever the analytical view of batting order optimization, it still matters to players, and I don't think that's how you come out of the starting gate with him. Even substantively, its not like his 370 OPB screams "get him away from the top of the lineup."

OTOH-whatever happens, I'm sure they will have talked about it. And ultimately, tough shit, Pedroia has to deal with it. But I think it's better "management" to put him near the top to start with.