Penn State AD and Sandusky Charged

Dehere

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What awful, vile people.
They're kids. They're stupid. Don't be too hard on them. Most of them will have kids of their own someday and look back and be ashamed that they went to this idiotic rally.

Paraphrasing another poster: focus on the 34,000 PSU students who aren't there.
 

CaptainLaddie

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This is weird.

PITTSBURGH -- Channel 11 News is looking into the disappearance of the district attorney who chose not to prosecute former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky more than a decade ago.

Ray Gricar disappeared in 2005. Gricar’s car and laptop were found along the Susquehanna River, but police have yet to find the former district attorney.
 

Alternate34

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Disgraceful. I hope the Big Ten boots them out. There should be no involvement with a University who at all levels both academic and sports administration protects a child predator.
I don't think this makes any sense. I would suspect none of the deans and department heads of the college had anything to do with protecting a child predator. I would venture that many/most/all of these academic departments resented the football program for receiving so much attention at what is supposed to be an academic institution. If you didn't mean the word all, then I suggest you don't use the word all.
 

bosoxsue

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Welp, I think we all saw this coming but still... just... ugh


http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/local_sports/exclusive%3A-victims-double-in-penn-state-case-110811
Does this mean he might be arrested again soon and will be behind bars where he belongs? Or at least have his bail revoked?
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I would like to mention that this guy is probably guilty as hell, however I would be concerned about these "new cases" that are popping up today. Some sicko's will always try to cash in on something like this. I read the grand jury report (its on deadspin), just horrible things in there. Every single person in that athletic department dropped the ball...hell, the whole administration dropped the ball, this transcends sports in its potential impact.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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If they really are going to force out Paterno, they have to can the Prez and the AD too.
Agreed, you can't force one out and keep the other two. However you could also argue that Paterno has more power than anyone at that school...hell its an absolute fact.
 

sachmoney

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As an alum of a big sports school, I'll defend the kids, not for supporting Joe, but wanting to hold onto the football program. Sports are a big part of the experience at any big time football school. A big part of that is winning. These kids are confused and they're in denial because they're losing something that is dear to them. I'm sure many of them have a great fondness for the program and what JoePa has done for the Penn State football program on the field. Many of them grew up rooting for this team, watching teams like the undefeated 1994 team (I guess these kids might have been too young for that, huh?) or the many other strong Penn State squads of the last 15-20 years. JoePa has been very influential in making their school what it is because of the football program's winning tradition. The football program is a huge source of pride at Penn State. JoePa stepping down is a huge loss to the program and the university. These kids are losing a part of what makes them whole.

In time, they'll understand the wrongdoings of Paterno, but they'll need time to digest the reality and magnitude of what went on.
 

Alternate34

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As an alum of a big sports school, I'll defend the kids, not for supporting Joe, but wanting to hold onto the football program. Sports are a big part of the experience at any big time football school. A big part of that is winning. These kids are confused and they're in denial because they're losing something that is dear to them. I'm sure many of them have a great fondness for the program and what JoePa has done for the Penn State football program on the field. Many of them grew up rooting for this team, watching teams like the undefeated 1994 team (I guess these kids might have been too young for that, huh?) or the many other strong Penn State squads of the last 15-20 years. JoePa has been very influential in making their school what it is because of the football program's winning tradition. The football program is a huge source of pride at Penn State. JoePa stepping down is a huge loss to the program and the university. These kids are losing a part of what makes them whole.

In time, they'll understand the wrongdoings of Paterno, but they'll need time to digest the reality and magnitude of what went on.
The kids are too young to remember 1994, but their parents, several of them alumni aren't. To say that the football program is a huge source of pride at Penn State is an understatement. The stadium fills up, the parking lots fill up, every single weekend (unless they have a 1AA school on the schedule).

However, there is an argument that that is part of the problem here. A university should not have the football program be its center. It happens all of the time, but it shouldn't. That the administration and the athletic department cared so much about its reputation because of its centrality to the school indicates that something was wrong.
 

Jnai

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I would venture that many/most/all of these academic departments resented the football program for receiving so much attention at what is supposed to be an academic institution.
I don't know how it worked at Penn State, but I was a Grad Student at Iowa (another Big 10) program, so I can offer a few insights from my experience there:

- By and large the Football Team is loved by the school, including academic departments. There isn't really any resentment of the huge national spotlight put on football because it puts a huge spotlight on the University. Most of the professors I knew were fans and took their families to games. Maybe there are other parts of the University that feel differently, but Psychology/Biology/Neuroscience/Computer Science seemed pretty pro-athletics.

- I have no idea what the level of academic involvement is at Penn State, but at Iowa there is a group of tenured faculty that cycles through academic advisory boards for the team. My advisor was on one such board and so I went with him to a game - we sat in the AD's booth with the other "important" people, hung out with Fred Mims, the assistant AD (who actually played MiLB and played with Fred Lynn), pretty cool experience. Besides for being schmoozed at football games, they are actually fairly involved in the part of athletics that directly impacts "student" life - they meet with all of the coaches (wrestling, basketball, there are a lot of sports) and sit for some of administrative stuff for athletics (academic probation, hiring, etc). So if PSU has a similar program, it is possible that there were some professors in the know, especially if they frequented these advisory panels. But given that the AD is being charged with covering this entire thing up, I would say it is highly unlikely. This is probably something that never really crossed from the athletics/administration side of the university into the academic side. It will now, of course.
 

dcmissle

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Alternate34

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I don't know how it worked at Penn State, but I was a Grad Student at Iowa (another Big 10) program, so I can offer a few insights from my experience there:

- By and large the Football Team is loved by the school, including academic departments. There isn't really any resentment of the huge national spotlight put on football because it puts a huge spotlight on the University. Most of the professors I knew were fans and took their families to games. Maybe there are other parts of the University that feel differently, but Psychology/Biology/Neuroscience/Computer Science seemed pretty pro-athletics.

- I have no idea what the level of academic involvement is at Penn State, but at Iowa there is a group of tenured faculty that cycles through academic advisory boards for the team. My advisor was on one such board and so I went with him to a game - we sat in the AD's booth with the other "important" people, hung out with Fred Mims, the assistant AD (who actually played MiLB and played with Fred Lynn), pretty cool experience. Besides for being schmoozed at football games, they are actually fairly involved in the part of athletics that directly impacts "student" life - they meet with all of the coaches (wrestling, basketball, there are a lot of sports) and sit for some of administrative stuff for athletics (academic probation, hiring, etc). So if PSU has a similar program, it is possible that there were some professors in the know, especially if they frequented these advisory panels. But given that the AD is being charged with covering this entire thing up, I would say it is highly unlikely. This is probably something that never really crossed from the athletics/administration side of the university into the academic side. It will now, of course.
Only been here a few months, but you are probably right that there are groups like this. I know in my department that the attitude toward the football team ranges from fandom to tolerance to resentment, heavier on that last two parts because of the amount it distracts the students. There are always grumblings about the amount of money devoted to athletics/football program when class sizes keep getting larger with less money for fixed term faculty and graduate assistants. They were hoping for an average class size of about 20 in a few years but have been getting larger since the economic downturn.

My read on the situation could be wrong though. Being in the humanities probably colors it negatively.
 

cheekydave

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Now cut off from his grandkids. GOOD



http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/08/2979216/court-sandusky-cant-be-alone-with.html
 

mabrowndog

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Especially against the backdrop of the sludge that has flowed recently from big time/big money college athletics, do I find it conceivable that DA could be whacked based on what he knew to prevent the toppling of a program -- even if he stood down? Sadly, yes.
FWIW, police investigating the DA's disappearance said they'd found evidence on his home computer that he'd done internet searches on how to destroy a laptop hard drive. They found his laptop with the drive missing, and later found the drive in the river irreparably damaged.

Or so they said.
 

Montana Fan

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Just a bizarre night outside the Paterno household. It sounds more like Joe was addressing a pep rally. Pretty disgusting.

Joe Paterno speaks to students outside home
Thank goodness he at least acknowledged the victims. IMO he has to offer a heartfelt apology. It's not going to mean much but it will show that he at least has some kind of heart. I will be shocked if he doesn't make a statement tomorrow.
 

canderson

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Paterno appears to be a man who for the first time at Penn State has lost control of what is happening around him, and he isn't sure what to do.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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As an alum of a big sports school, I'll defend the kids, not for supporting Joe, but wanting to hold onto the football program. Sports are a big part of the experience at any big time football school. A big part of that is winning. These kids are confused and they're in denial because they're losing something that is dear to them. I'm sure many of them have a great fondness for the program and what JoePa has done for the Penn State football program on the field. Many of them grew up rooting for this team, watching teams like the undefeated 1994 team (I guess these kids might have been too young for that, huh?) or the many other strong Penn State squads of the last 15-20 years. JoePa has been very influential in making their school what it is because of the football program's winning tradition. The football program is a huge source of pride at Penn State. JoePa stepping down is a huge loss to the program and the university. These kids are losing a part of what makes them whole.

In time, they'll understand the wrongdoings of Paterno, but they'll need time to digest the reality and magnitude of what went on.
Your observation is probably spot on, but IMO, this seems to be symbolic of a lot of what is wrong about sports.
 

JBill

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Thank goodness he at least acknowledged the victims. IMO he has to offer a heartfelt apology. It's not going to mean much but it will show that he at least has some kind of heart. I will be shocked if he doesn't make a statement tomorrow.
I hope whoever crafts this next statement for him does a much better job than the last one. Expressing "shock" that Sandusky is a monster is a little tough to take when everyone knows what you've testified to, that you knew about at least one crime and did nothing.

And I hope he is genuinely sorry for the victims. Sorrier than he, or anyone else, was when they didn't bother to find out the identity of the 10 year old.
 

doldmoose34

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stick a fork in JoePa, he's done, he just doesnt have a big time church in Rome to flee to like Bernie Law

question for the lawyers on the board, isn't transporting a minor across state lines (taking the kid to the Alamo Bowl) for purpose of sex a FEDERAL crime?
 

twibnotes

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Yes, particularly since another MD prosecutor was killed under similar circumstances busting a NY heroin ring - as pointed out in an earlier post.
Amazing to think the DA was willing to risk life and limb by going after a heroin ring, but he was apparently afraid to go after Sandusky (and by extension, PSU football)
 

Hendu's Gait

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stick a fork in JoePa, he's done, he just doesnt have a big time church in Rome to flee to like Bernie Law

question for the lawyers on the board, isn't transporting a minor across state lines (taking the kid to the Alamo Bowl) for purpose of sex a FEDERAL crime?
If you're referring to the Mann Act, yes, if the sex would be illegal which obviously it is here. And thankfully it was amended in 1986 to be gender-neutral (originally intended with female victims).
 

Jnai

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My read on the situation could be wrong though. Being in the humanities probably colors it negatively.
Probably. Half joking here - in departments where people get grants, they aren't so concerned with the football budget. =)

I can't imagine being on the administrative board that has to deal with this shit.
 

mabrowndog

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ESPN reporting the PSU Board of Trustees has had a conference call, and will now meet tomorrow instead of Friday. They didn't say if the governor will attend.
 

LeftyTG

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I'm sorry but this is just stupid.

Yay! 100,000 people wear blue to the Senior Day game, say a prayer for the victims, cheer on JoePa and everything will be great! Go Lions!

It's sick.
I agree. I clicked on the link, and holy crap the posters on that page from PSU just mindless.
 

Infield Infidel

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I'm sorry but this is just stupid.

Yay! 100,000 people wear blue to the Senior Day game, say a prayer for the victims, cheer on JoePa and everything will be great! Go Lions!

It's sick.
You know, they should just cancel the game! and cancel football! then everyone will forget about this and it'll all be better! Let's go play backgammon!

Forget about JoePa. Forget about the coaches, admin, etc. They're all scumbags in this, that's understood.

There are 80 something kids playing this game. There's a whole other team playing too. There are probably 15-25 seniors for whom this'll be their last home game. This shit is already super fucked up for them, so there's nothing wrong with giving them at least an oasis to do what they do.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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Amazing to think the DA was willing to risk life and limb by going after a heroin ring, but he was apparently afraid to go after Sandusky (and by extension, PSU football)
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Sex crimes involving children are difficult to prosecute. He may simply have felt that he lacked the witnesses he needed for a conviction.
 

twibnotes

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I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Sex crimes involving children are difficult to prosecute. He may simply have felt that he lacked the witnesses he needed for a conviction.
Isn't there value in fighting it? How many kids would have benefitted from Sandusky's activities being made public?
 

berniecarbo1

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stick a fork in JoePa, he's done, he just doesnt have a big time church in Rome to flee to like Bernie Law

question for the lawyers on the board, isn't transporting a minor across state lines (taking the kid to the Alamo Bowl) for purpose of sex a FEDERAL crime?
Moose, I was thinking the same thing. I called my old roomie from the 'Cuse who is a Former Asst US Attorney in Sacramento. He said if it could be shown the intent was to bring the kids across state lines for sexual activity, it could be trafficing and a federal charge.....like up to 20 years in Federal prison. But without more facts on that particualr incident he was unsure. There may also be federal civil rights laws that were violated and in theory conspiracy after the fact charges that could be amended in a supeceding indictment against the administrators and conceivably Paterno. Also Sandusky could face charges in Texas (Alamo Bowl) and Florida (Outback Bowl).

Joe Pa has to step down. There is no way around this. How can he justify allowing this scumbag to come on campus and use the football facilities up until last week? It is just unbelievable. Let's not kid ourselves, Joe Pa ran PSU. He knew everything that was going on in that school, especially from the athletics side of the house. They didn't make a move without getting the "Pa" Blessing.

On a side note, I actually met Sandusky 30 years ago when he came to my high school to recruit my best friend to PSU. My buddy ended up at Michigan but Sandusky was his recruiter. He was then a genuinely decent guy and I remember my friend was really impressed with him and Paterno. He ended up going to Michigan because he was sold on the idea of playing in the Rose Bowl by Bo. I have not been able to get in touch with my friend since this story broke. This whole thing is just like the Church scandal. Another iconic institution of my youth up in smoke....it is sad....and deplorable at the same time.


Excellent Column in Philadelphia Inquirier by Bob Ford...pretty much sums up where PSU has to go from here:

http://www.philly.co...cmpid=125219969
 

JBill

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Board of Trustees released a statement:

http://live.psu.edu/story/56285

They are outraged, etc, will act swiftly and launch an investigation (I like how they mention they will act swiftly and follow that with "at our regular meeting on Friday..."), and they will release their findings and their conclusions of who is responsible.

Anyway, after reading that, my guess is this investigation takes about, oh, all of football season.
 
Sep 27, 2004
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Yeah, that is a stalling tactic. Wow, they are really digging themselves into a huge hole here. Commence liquidating the State Penn endowment to pay for the factory of lawyers who will be working on their legal defenses!
 

canderson

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Bunch of tweets saying :state troopers in riot gear have arrived downtown and begun clearing out the crowd.

Crowd at Old Main now 1000+ strong and growing quickly, chanting Fire Spanier.
 

mascho

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Yeah, that is a stalling tactic. Wow, they are really digging themselves into a huge hole here. Commence liquidating the State Penn endowment to pay for the factory of lawyers who will be working on their legal defenses!
Wow. Stalling tactic indeed. The subtitle to that statement might as well have read "We Expect to see Coach Paterno Carried Triumphantly off the field after our Citrus Bowl Win."
 

sfip

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I'm sorry but this is just stupid.

Yay! 100,000 people wear blue to the Senior Day game, say a prayer for the victims, cheer on JoePa and everything will be great! Go Lions!

It's sick.
It's to try to do something positive out of a horrible situation and unite to give attention to the Blue Ribbon Campaign against child abuse, which isn't new and has existed for 22 years. If that's sick, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm as embarrassed as anyone for what has happened at my alma mater. I hope everyone involved in the cover up gets what's deserved including Paterno. At the same time, I don't agree with the bulk of the posts here about the students outside Paterno's house. I'm not saying Paterno can do no wrong. It sucks that he didn't do more about Sandusky and I wish he had, but Paterno has also done so much over the years for the university, the students, the charities, etc., to more than offset his mistakes of this scandal in my mind, even as dispicable as this scandal is. I'm sure plenty here will disagree with me and some may try to twist this as though I condone something I don't, but I feel the positives Paterno has done shouldn't be forgotten or just tossed aside.
 

Dogman

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It's to try to do something positive out of a horrible situation and unite to give attention to the Blue Ribbon Campaign against child abuse, which isn't new and has existed for 22 years. If that's sick, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm as embarrassed as anyone for what has happened at my alma mater. I hope everyone involved in the cover up gets what's deserved including Paterno. At the same time, I don't agree with the bulk of the posts here about the students outside Paterno's house. I'm not saying Paterno can do no wrong. It sucks that he didn't do more about Sandusky and I wish he had, but Paterno has also done so much over the years for the university, the students, the charities, etc., to more than offset his mistakes of this scandal in my mind, even as dispicable as this scandal is. I'm sure plenty here will disagree with me and some may try to twist this as though I condone something I don't, but I feel the positives Paterno has done shouldn't be forgotten or just tossed aside.

That may well have been the exact reasoning used years ago to not pursue things against Sandusky. The Blue Ribbon Campaign would mean a lot more if the Lions opponent this weekend started the FB page.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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It's to try to do something positive out of a horrible situation and unite to give attention to the Blue Ribbon Campaign against child abuse, which isn't new and has existed for 22 years. If that's sick, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm as embarrassed as anyone for what has happened at my alma mater. I hope everyone involved in the cover up gets what's deserved including Paterno. At the same time, I don't agree with the bulk of the posts here about the students outside Paterno's house. I'm not saying Paterno can do no wrong. It sucks that he didn't do more about Sandusky and I wish he had, but Paterno has also done so much over the years for the university, the students, the charities, etc., to more than offset his mistakes of this scandal in my mind, even as dispicable as this scandal is. I'm sure plenty here will disagree with me and some may try to twist this as though I condone something I don't, but I feel the positives Paterno has done shouldn't be forgotten or just tossed aside.
The positives Paterno has done were tossed aside the second he reported the Sandusky stuff up the ladder and then washed his hands of it.

This is Paterno's legacy now.
 

J.McG

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question for the lawyers on the board, isn't transporting a minor across state lines (taking the kid to the Alamo Bowl) for purpose of sex a FEDERAL crime?
That is a very good question. I listened to the attorney general's press conference Monday and while she said Paterno and Spanier have not been charged, she made sure to not-so-subtly leave the door open on the possibility as the investigation continues. There was certainly no ringing endorsements or platitudes given to Paterno or Spanier for fulfilling their "legal obligation". I expect A LOT more dirty laundry will be aired in the coming weeks. With the national disgust at this story boiling over, neither Paterno or Spanier will be spared.

This would be a career-making case for AG Kelly, and would be a nice resume builder for someone who may be eying an eventual governorship race. Does anyone where this case being prosecuted? In light of the OJ and Casey Anthony debacles, fielding a jury free from members of the JoePa cult of personality will be critical, if at all possible in Pennsylvania

Also thought Francesa made some good points today (he and Kim Jones have been surprisingly excellent in their coverage of this whole story) - We shouldn't be expecting any genuine or specific statements of regret, apology, indignation, etc. by anyone in the Penn State administration. Any such statement could potentially expose the university to even greater liability once the inevitable (and justified) class action suits start rolling in. Penn State stands to lose hundreds of millions of dollars as a result and will be hunkered down in the bunker to do whatever damage control may still be possible (e.g. canceling today's press conference). You can be sure that any statement coming out of Penn State will have been read through with a fine tooth comb by a team of lawyers and devoid of any real emotion.

Paterno is the wild card here. If he feels his job, essentially his whole existence, is no longer secure, he may get to singing like canary. Based on his history, I don't think he is going to go down without a fight. It's going to be very interesting to see if and how the university can get him to walk away and keep quiet. Sadly, this is probably the largest point of debate at these emergency trustee meetings. How and why this was allowed to happen would seem to be of secondary concern based on all we've heard thus far
 

JBill

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At the same time, I don't agree with the bulk of the posts here about the students outside Paterno's house. I'm not saying Paterno can do no wrong. It sucks that he didn't do more about Sandusky and I wish he had, but Paterno has also done so much over the years for the university, the students, the charities, etc., to more than offset his mistakes of this scandal in my mind, even as dispicable as this scandal is. I'm sure plenty here will disagree with me and some may try to twist this as though I condone something I don't, but I feel the positives Paterno has done shouldn't be forgotten or just tossed aside.
I don't agree that the good outweighs his mistakes/at worst intentional coverup, but even assuming it does, is now really the best time to honor the man and his legacy, with child abuse victims coming forward, with the perp still free? Paterno is in no way a victim, and that was what was galling about the show of support.
 

canderson

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Might want to fo follow this Twotter account:

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/DailyCollegian

Masses of students running around, already tearing down piolice barriers, waiting for Spanier to leave the main admin building.

State College's police have a history with mishandling crowd control, leading to all-out riots.