It’s not a question of pissing away a lead. It’s a question of ensuring 3 quality starts in the next two weeks, saving the bullpen and getting yourself quicker to a point where you can just shut things down and rest people. The 116 wins business exists only in these threads — I’m rather certain the RS want no part of that.Magic number? If they can’t survive a few missed starts by one pitcher with a 10 plus game lead and 39 games left, then they’ve got bigger issues.
Sale’s personal interest is in not being fried by the playoffs again. Just so happens that the Sox have the same interest.
Unless your definition of "legitimate" is unique, I'm not sure how you can say that.It might be something as simple as the Sox giving some guys an extra look because they aren’t happy with 1 or 2 of the current guys in the rotation/pen. Obviously the number one reason is to limit his innings. I highly doubt this injury is legitimate. However I’d be stunned if he’s back before September 1st when rosters expand to manipulate the roster count for the playoffs.
It wasn't a phantom injury, maybe?If it were really a phantom injury designed to get him rest, why would they have brought him back to pitch in one game? That doesn't make sense.
Hurt, not injured. Fair enough.It wasn't a phantom injury, maybe?
Like, he was hurting. They put him on the DL. He felt a bit better, so they tried him out. He was awesome, but it still hurts, so they're shutting him down again.
Like, one way of looking at this is to say, OMG they had to do it again! THIS IS BAD!! Another is to follow DRS's lead and think, so they're following the same protocol as last time, that went OK but there was still discomfort, so they're staying with their plan.
It's not a phantom injury.If it were really a phantom injury designed to get him rest, why would they have brought him back to pitch in one game? That doesn't make sense.
You know a cynical man might note that for starting pitchers a 10 day DL with 3 retro days is a bit of a scam. For one start you get 7 days of another player.
For a team with a good lead in August ....
Yeah, I'm more concerned now than I was before, but I have to say that I love that this team I willing to have players not "play through it". Obviously, where they are in the standings has a lot to do with them being able to do this, but it's nice to see them give guys rest and time to heal, instead of "manning up" and playing through it (I'm looking at you, X).
Obviously, it makes sense to be more concerned that when he came back and we hoped he was healed.I doubt it’s imaginary but maybe a little nagging plus a little convenient would be my uneducated guess.
Hurt, not injured. Fair enough.
But the notion that this is protective bubble wrap and nothing more or, even more laughably, they want to look at other guys, please ...
I agree with that. I'm taking issue with the notion that this is simply manipulating the 10-day DL to get him extra rest down the stretch. Obviously, none of us can make more than an educated guess as to the severity of the problem, but I think that for the most part we can agree that it's not just an attempt to keep him fresh under the guise of an injury.It wasn't a phantom injury, maybe?
Like, he was hurting. They put him on the DL. He felt a bit better, so they tried him out. He was awesome, but it still hurts, so they're shutting him down again.
Like, one way of looking at this is to say, OMG they had to do it again! THIS IS BAD!! Another is to follow DRS's lead and think, so they're following the same protocol as last time, that went OK but there was still discomfort, so they're staying with their plan.
I don't think they would have brought him back last time if it was a manipulation, so yeah. Like, if they did that, it would be reckless and reverse my entire assessment. So yeah--I think they're just playing this by the book. Which is odd that that looks so weird to us, but that's another thread.I agree with that. I'm taking issue with the notion that this is simply manipulating the 10-day DL to get him extra rest down the stretch. Obviously, none of us can make more than an educated guess as to the severity of the problem, but I think that for the most part we can agree that it's not just an attempt to keep him fresh under the guise of an injury.
The hope is it’s somewhere in the middle. Mild, nagging shoulder that they will take zero chances with. Seems like he wouldn’t be able to pitch like he did Sunday if he’s seriously injured.I agree with that. I'm taking issue with the notion that this is simply manipulating the 10-day DL to get him extra rest down the stretch. Obviously, none of us can make more than an educated guess as to the severity of the problem, but I think that for the most part we can agree that it's not just an attempt to keep him fresh under the guise of an injury.
"Just a little bit more of the same [feeling in the shoulder from] the last episode we had," said Sale. "Just trying to stay on top of things and get it better."
"When I started throwing again, [my shoulder] just kind of didn't respond the way we wanted it to," said Sale. "[It] didn't really bounce back the way we wanted it to. [We'll] just kind of adjust and kind of map things out and see where it takes us."
Sounds, again, like just an abundance of caution."We've still got a lot of season left. We don't want to overlook that. At the same time, we want to be able to kind of sprint across the finish line -- not limp into it. Like I said, [it's] bad timing, obviously. Anybody who knows me knows I'm not the biggest fan of what's going on right now, but it is what it is. You deal with it, keep your chin up, put one foot in front of the other and just keep grinding."
Why does my brain insist on reading this in Mike Ehrmantraut’s voice. I’m going to hope that it’s the Sox just insisting that for once in his career Sale is ready for October, but it’s hard to see the collar cutter willingly sit if he feels he can go. Maybe Cora is much more persuasive than his predecessors?Going nowhere near a bridge railing, but Sale and the RS have a strong shared interest in melting that magic number and Sale has a strong personal interest in not being seen as Stephen Strasburg’s body double when the day comes he hits FA.
So although I don’t know what it is exactly, it’s not nuthin’.
To me, if it's to be believed (HA!), it's not so much an abundance of caution so much as they are evaluating not based on his performance but on his post-start recovery time.From the horse’s mouth (figuratively, Teixeira is retired):
Sounds, again, like just an abundance of caution.
TSH said Velasquez if he doesn't have to pitch tonightAnyone know who is the starting pitcher tomorrow?
His shoulder didn't feel as good as it should have as soon as it should have after his last start.Going on the DL twice for a shoulder issue a year away from FA , and perhaps risking his chance to win the CYA is not in Sales interests unless he is really hurt. I believe there is an issue here
The one thing giving me pause in potentially agreeing with you is the degree to which the pen has been taxed lately because the team won’t stop winning. Merely skipping starts doesn’t allow them to bring in some relief to the guys in the pen who have been working theirs butts off to close out all these wins.This is not great.
I’ve never been a big believer in the ‘phantom DL’ thing that’s been bandied about here. If there was nothing wrong with Sale outside of them wanting to get some rest, they could skip a start here and there, limit his innings, etc. etc. Not send him to the DL, bring him back, and send him down again.
I guess it’s possible something isn’t wrong with him, but I cannot help but be concerned that something’s wrong here.
Yet there are those saying it is a phantom DL so Sherlock must speak out. We agree, there is an issue. Scotland Yard may stand downHis shoulder didn't feel as good as it should have as soon as it should have after his last start.
He said so. That's an issue. He's on the DL. I don't think we need Scotland Yard.
That is essentially what the Dodgers were accused of doing last year. It’ll be interesting to see how teams game this (if indeed they are) going forward.Doesn't this strike people as the logical evolution of the use of the 10-day DL for a prone-to-fatigue starter? They haven't had this shiny roster toy but for a year - I think they've just figured out how to finesse it with a white lie to skip a start while maintaining maximal roster flexibility.
Wouldn’t Sale and/or his agent be against this, as it raises the perception that he’s an injury risk? Unless he wants to admit to colluding to circumvent the DL rule?Doesn't this strike people as the logical evolution of the use of the 10-day DL for a prone-to-fatigue starter? They haven't had this shiny roster toy but for a year - I think they've just figured out how to finesse it with a white lie to skip a start while maintaining maximal roster flexibility.
Shush. Men at work. Digging furiously in the stall, trying to find the pony.Wouldn’t Sale and/or his agent be against this, as it raises the perception that he’s an injury risk? Unless he wants to admit to colluding to circumvent the DL rule?
This feels like some weird prank where the Red Sox decide to be totally transparent just to see how the fan base reacts.Shush. Men at work. Digging furiously in the stall, trying to find the pony.
We had a test run in April when Price had a case of carpal tunnel and people here were convinced that the club was messing with us and TJ surgery was imminent.This feels like some weird prank where the Red Sox decide to be totally transparent just to see how the fan base reacts.
It will depend on how things evolve. Hurt during the postseason or WS MVP.Wouldn’t Sale and/or his agent be against this, as it raises the perception that he’s an injury risk? Unless he wants to admit to colluding to circumvent the DL rule?
It will a negotiation point to be sure. I do think that October ending will bear heavily on the outcome.Sale may very well have a “fragile” label on him even if he does turn into a playoffs hero.... not many teams will ever have the same cushion the Sox do right now, and thereby the luxury they are (or are they???) afforded with Sale. He may always be considered a bit of a late season risk.
That said.... what’s the ETA for Rodriguez returning?
Yes. If they did it once each for Sale, Price, and Porcello.Doesn't this strike people as the logical evolution of the use of the 10-day DL for a prone-to-fatigue starter? They haven't had this shiny roster toy but for a year - I think they've just figured out how to finesse it with a white lie to skip a start while maintaining maximal roster flexibility.
He's only thrown 115+ all season, so that's clearly not what they're doing.He was out for a couple weeks then pitched less than 70 pitches on his return. Now he’s back out again.
He’s not exactly sounding ready to go 115-120 pitches when he returns.
That's odd because 538's system, from what I hear, does not take injuries into account.Interestingly 538 lowered our odds of winning the WS by 5% since this morning.
Could be, but that also means we would not have to beat both.It could be the fact that a Wildcard game between Yankees and Astros is much more likely. Playing the winner of that is quite the reward for having the best record!
Who are those and what’s their affiliation with the team? There’s “those” that say the Democrats are running a pedo ring out of a pizza parlor...Yet there are those saying it is a phantom DL so Sherlock must speak out. We agree, there is an issue. Scotland Yard may stand down
And that X was done for the year, and that Sale’s TJ was imminent last time. It’s almost as if “those” could learn something from history.We had a test run in April when Price had a case of carpal tunnel and people here were convinced that the club was messing with us and TJ surgery was imminent.
Didn't they already put Price on the 10-day earlier this year?Yes. If they did it once each for Sale, Price, and Porcello.