2018-19 Offseason Thread

moondog80 said:

Buchholz was very good last year, and if this comes down to whoever is willing to give Eovaldi an extra year, I'd definitely consider him a real alternative.

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We don’t need a starter this year. They need bullpen relief ace help way more than they need a 5th starter, and their payroll situation sucks with Betts coming up on a $300 million payday, Bogaerts likely getting $20 million per, with no obvious replacement for him in sight, and Bradley or his replacement not cheap, JD will almost surely opt out and need to be resigned to $20 plus million per, with Edro and Barnes (if they were to break out at all) not too far behind.

They Sox aren’t the Yankees. They can’t have all the newest and bestest shiny objects

joe dokes said:

Ultimately, I think that's where I am. There's pretty good reasons on both sides of the "sign him" issue. He was great. But he had been mediocre. His elbow might explode. He's only 28.
Management seems to have a fair handle on things.

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They're also telling us what they want to tell us. They certainly have a fair handle on things, we just don't really know what that means.

Plympton91 said:

We don’t need a starter this year. They need bullpen relief ace help way more than they need a 5th starter, and their payroll situation sucks with Betts coming up on a $300 million payday, Bogaerts likely getting $20 million per, with no obvious replacement for him in sight, and Bradley or his replacement not cheap, JD will almost surely opt out and need to be resigned to $20 plus million per, with Edro and Barnes (if they were to break out at all) not too far behind.

They Sox aren’t the Yankees. They can’t have all the newest and bestest shiny objects

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I agree, which is why I consider Buchholz a real option on a one-year, 7 figure deal.

moondog80 said:

I agree, which is why I consider Buchholz a real option on a one-year, 7 figure deal.

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I wouldn't touch Buchholz. The only thing he's ever shown consistency in is his inconsistency. Yes, in very limited innings last year he put up very good numbers. He's only once in his entire 12-year MLB career had two straight seasons with era numbers less than 4.20 (2010-11, 2.33 and 3.48, respectively). He's the rolleriest of roller coasters and I want no part of that.

I guess I'd take it if the 7-figure deal was like... $1,000,000 - the minimal 7-figure deal. But to spend actual money on the guy? No thank you.

Buchholz threw 100 decent, if lucky, innings last year, nearly half of them against the pathetic lineups of the Marlins, Giants, and Padres. He tops out at 90 and turns 35 this year. Pass. [BaseballJones beat me to it.]

I'm crossing my fingers for Jon Gray, who I think is the trading-block starter most likely to be liberated without including Beni or Devers.

BaseballJones said:

I wouldn't touch Buchholz. The only thing he's ever shown consistency in is his inconsistency. Yes, in very limited innings last year he put up very good numbers. He's only once in his entire 12-year MLB career had two straight seasons with era numbers less than 4.20 (2010-11, 2.33 and 3.48, respectively). He's the rolleriest of roller coasters and I want no part of that.

I guess I'd take it if the 7-figure deal was like... $1,000,000 - the minimal 7-figure deal. But to spend actual money on the guy? No thank you.

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Haven't you pretty much also described Eovaldi too? Other than on the positive side, he's younger but on the negative side, his peaks have never approached Clay's peaks?

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:

Haven't you pretty much also described Eovaldi too? Other than on the positive side, he's younger but on the negative side, his peaks have never approached Clay's peaks?

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Exactly. Would you rather go 85/4 for Eovaldi or 6/1 for Buchholz, with the difference being spent elsewhere?

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:

Haven't you pretty much also described Eovaldi too? Other than on the positive side, he's younger but on the negative side, his peaks have never approached Clay's peaks?

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Kind of yeah. Recency bias for me and Eovaldi, plus he's younger and he dominated the Yankees and the postseason.

BaseballJones said:

Kind of yeah. Recency bias for me and Eovaldi, plus he's younger and he dominated the Yankees and the postseason.

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The dominated the Yankees thing was true last year, but doesn't mean much for next year without knowing what the Yankees lineup is going to look like (likely 2 new players + healthy Sanchez). If you take that away, do you still value him as much? Yankees fans were excited about Happ dominating the Sox until he had a big clunker too...

crow216 said:

The dominated the Yankees thing was true last year, but doesn't mean much for next year without knowing what the Yankees lineup is going to look like (likely 2 new players + healthy Sanchez). If you take that away, do you still value him as much? Yankees fans were excited about Happ dominating the Sox until he had a big clunker too...

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Well, as Cora said... 100 plays. Eovaldi throws extremely hard and in today's game, that's enormous. I don't expect him to dominate the Yankees every time out. But he does have the kind of stuff to beat them more often than not.

And again, maybe I'm colored by how great he was for the Sox this year and in the postseason. I mean, I know I am. I don't expect THAT on a consistent basis, but he definitely has the goods to be a very good pitcher.

EdRalphRomero said:

It is likely that one of the current catchers leaves though. If for no other reason than carrying three catchers without the ability to send one of them down periodically is too limiting (yeah it worked out in 2018, but that doesn't mean it is a good approach for this year). I expect them to move one of the three. And I expect them to add a catcher who can go on the 40, but who has options remaining.

The two remaining catchers they have in Pawtucket Oscar Hernandez (25 years old and a .556 OPS in AAA) and Juan Centeno (29 years old and a .598 OPS in AAA) are too lousy even for third catcher options. Dan Butler retired to become the Diamondbacks bullpen catcher. And the highest rated catching prospect they have that I can find is Kole Cottam, a 2018 4th round pick out of Kentucky who spent some time in Lowell last year (.679 OPS).

Seems like a replacement level catcher with remaining options would be of significant value to the team.

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Austin Rei says hi.

John Marzano Olympic Hero said:

85/4 for Eovaldi and it's not even close. AND I'm not someone who thinks that we should pull out all of the stops to sign Eovaldi.

I want no part of Buchholz. NONE.

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Quoted for truth.

crow216 said:

The dominated the Yankees thing was true last year, but doesn't mean much for next year without knowing what the Yankees lineup is going to look like (likely 2 new players + healthy Sanchez). If you take that away, do you still value him as much? Yankees fans were excited about Happ dominating the Sox until he had a big clunker too...

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I personally don’t really give two shits about ‘he dominated team x’ or he ‘he sucks against team y’. I think it’s a load of crap. I think he’s a young, hard throwing who’s made some mechanical and pitch selection/usage changes and it’s clicked for him. The health thing doesn’t worry me; they wouldn’t even consider it if his elbow didn’t look clean. I imagine he will probably be one to be ridden hard and put away wet, probably get 4-5 more years out of him and then he’s garbage, but I’ll gladly take those years.

I’m honestly flabbergasted people are suggesting Buchholz. Jesus Christmas.

John Marzano Olympic Hero said:

85/4 for Eovaldi and it's not even close. AND I'm not someone who thinks that we should pull out all of the stops to sign Eovaldi.

I want no part of Buchholz. NONE.

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Buchholz would be like option 8 out of the list for 2020 that chawson posted, assuming everything else fell through AND he had a good year in 2019.

As I said, I wouldn’t sign any starting pitchers for 2019. They are already 7 deep (Sale, Price, Porcello, Edro, Johnson, Wright, Velazquez), and that totally discounts further development from Shawaryn.

If you’re signing Eovaldi for $21 million a year, then you’re doing so by weakening the Sox at some other position.

They’re at $225 without a closer, without a set up man, and without Eovaldi. (And the catchers still suck, but they’re probably not going to fix that)

Do you want Eovaldi if it means Barnes is your closer with Brazier and Poyner as your top set up guys?

Or are we assuming the Sox are ok with a $260+ million payroll ($225+$21 for Eovaldi+ $10-15 for a closer+$6-8 for a setup guy) this year?

Papelbon's Poutine said:

I personally don’t really give two shits about ‘he dominated team x’ or he ‘he sucks against team y’. I think it’s a load of crap. I think he’s a young, hard throwing who’s made some mechanical and pitch selection/usage changes and it’s clicked for him. The health thing doesn’t worry me; they wouldn’t even consider it if his elbow didn’t look clean. I imagine he will probably be one to be ridden hard and put away wet, probably get 4-5 more years out of him and then he’s garbage, but I’ll gladly take those years.

I’m honestly flabbergasted people are suggesting Buchholz. Jesus Christmas.

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As though the suggestion is as simple as Buchholz or Eovaldi.

Putting it in more tangible terms..spend 85 mil on 4 years of Eovaldi or 1 year of Buchholz (6 mil), 2 years of Wilson Ramos (18 mil), 3 years of Adam Ottavino (45 mil), and 50% of the cost for 2 years of David Robertson?

bosox79 said:

Austin Rei says hi.

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Good catch on the omission. But is he likely to be an option for an up and down guy in 2019? Or will he likely need one more year in AA/AAA? Maybe he can approximate replacement level production, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Plympton91 said:

Buchholz would be like option 8 out of the list that chawson posted, assuming everything else fell through AND he had a good year in 2019.

I wouldn’t sign any starting pitchers for 2019.

If you’re signing Eovaldi for $21 million a year, then you’re doing so by weakening the Sox at some other position.

They’re at $225 without a closer, without a set up man, and without Eovaldi.

Do you want Eovaldi if it means Barnes is your closer with Brazier and Poyner as your top set up guys?

Or are we assuming the Sox are ok with a $260+ million payroll ($225+$21 for Eovaldi+ $10-15 for a closer+$6-8 for a setup guy) this year?

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They’re at $215M with arb inflation estimates. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/boston-red-sox-salaries-and-contracts.shtml
And yes, I’d rather pay Eovaldi 4/$85 than give Kimbrel six years.

Papelbon's Poutine said:

And yes, I’d rather pay Eovaldi 4/$85 than give Kimbrel six years.

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Are those the only two options?

Papelbon's Poutine said:

They’re at $215M with arb inflation estimates. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/boston-red-sox-salaries-and-contracts.shtml
And yes, I’d rather pay Eovaldi 4/$85 than give Kimbrel six years.

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Kimbrel would be more like $18 mil a year too, not 10-15. But just to get somebody like Robertson as a stop gap will probably take 2-$20. Britton way more than that. Ottavino somewhere in between.

moondog80 said:

As though the suggestion is as simple as Buchholz or Eovaldi.

Putting it in more tangible terms..spend 85 mil on 4 years of Eovaldi or 1 year of Buchholz (6 mil), 2 years of Wilson Ramos (18 mil), 3 years of Adam Ottavino (45 mil), and 50% of the cost for 2 years of David Robertson?

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Eovaldi. And it’s not close. They aren’t signing Ramos, they already have too many catchers and already not playing the best offensive one. In no world is Ottavino worth $15M a year and Eovaldi isn’t worth $21M. Signing Eovaldi does not exclude them from adding a Robertson. And I’d rather root for the Yankees than see Buchholz back in a Sox uniform. So, in short, no.

moondog80 said:

Are those the only two options?

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Did you read the question I responded to?

EdRalphRomero said:

Good catch on the omission. But is he likely to be an option for an up and down guy in 2019? Or will he likely need one more year in AA/AAA? Maybe he can approximate replacement level production, but I'm a bit skeptical.

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If he's on the 40-man, by default he's an option to be an "up and down" guy. They're burning an option on him regardless so they might as well use him if they need him. He can likely cover a Dan Butler like role in 2019 without issue. If it's down to him coming up and starting regularly because of injuries, a la Swihart in 2015, that's probably not a good thing but it's also not something for which you can realistically stash a better option.

Red(s)HawksFan said:

If he's on the 40-man, by default he's an option to be an "up and down" guy. They're burning an option on him regardless so they might as well use him if they need him. He can likely cover a Dan Butler like role in 2019 without issue. If it's down to him coming up and starting regularly because of injuries, a la Swihart in 2015, that's probably not a good thing but it's also not something for which you can realistically stash a better option.

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He's not on the 40 now though right? (Just making sure I am not missing something). At his age and talent profile I worry less about burning his options and more about whether or not he warrants a spot on the 40/can serve as an adequate 3rd string catcher. And I would point out that if we trade one of the 3, we're not really talking about replicating what Butler did last year (where he was the 4th catcher). In the scenario I am positing, he would really be the 3rd catcher. I may be over-rating replacement level catching, but I imagine there is a better option than Rei for 2019.

Red(s)HawksFan said:

If he's on the 40-man, by default he's an option to be an "up and down" guy. They're burning an option on him regardless so they might as well use him if they need him. He can likely cover a Dan Butler like role in 2019 without issue. If it's down to him coming up and starting regularly because of injuries, a la Swihart in 2015, that's probably not a good thing but it's also not something for which you can realistically stash a better option.

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And depending on the metric, our catchers weren't even replacement level this year so the bar isn't hard to clear. The only problem is the Redsox appear to heavily favor defense at the C position and Rei is mediocre.

EdRalphRomero said:

He's not on the 40 now though right? (Just making sure I am not missing something). At his age and talent profile I worry less about burning his options and more about whether or not he warrants a spot on the 40/can serve as an adequate 3rd string catcher. And I would point out that if we trade one of the 3, we're not really talking about replicating what Butler did last year (where he was the 4th catcher). In the scenario I am positing, he would really be the 3rd catcher. I may be over-rating replacement level catching, but I imagine there is a better option than Rei for 2019.

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You're right. He isn't on the 40-man. That's my error. I know he's Rule 5 eligible this year, so I assumed he'd been added to protect him, but apparently he wasn't. I think my point still stands. He could be the fourth catcher like Butler. I'm of the opinion that they're keeping all three catchers again, though. Dombrowski has said he's open to doing so.

I didn't see that either. I saw Ockimey.

If the Sox lose Eovaldi, what about seeing what the Twins would accept for a package of Kyle Gibson and Jason Castro? The Twins are not contending. They have a lot of young pitching prospects they want to break in this year (Gonsalves, Mejia, Romero, Stewart, Littell, plus their investment in Pineda), and no need to play Castro, who’s been lapped by Astudillo and Garver.

It’s not a sexy move, but the Sox ability to absorb Castro’s contract (and potentially use him) would reduce the cost of Gibson to something we can handle. Castro was hurt last year and I wouldn’t count on him returning to a .720 OPS hitter (solidly above average for a catcher), but he’s one of the better pitch framers in baseball and that’s clearly something DD values.

Devizier said:

Fangraphs projections undersold Corbin by $50 or $40 million, roughly 1/3 of his contract's total value. And he came attached with a QO.

I'm guessing Eovaldi gets quite a bit more than the 3/42-45 that they pegged him at.

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MLBTR had Corbin at 6/$129M, so they were pretty close. They have Eovaldi at 4/$60. So he probably gets 4/$68 or so. That's doable for the Sox.

moondog80 said:

Exactly. Would you rather go 85/4 for Eovaldi or 6/1 for Buchholz, with the difference being spent elsewhere?

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My guess Buchholz would take any guaranteed deal. Personally, I'd offer him a minor league deal with a spring training invite because he's totally unreliable at this point.

Plympton91 said:

We don’t need a starter this year. They need bullpen relief ace help way more than they need a 5th starter, and their payroll situation sucks with Betts coming up on a $300 million payday, Bogaerts likely getting $20 million per, with no obvious replacement for him in sight, and Bradley or his replacement not cheap, JD will almost surely opt out and need to be resigned to $20 plus million per, with Edro and Barnes (if they were to break out at all) not too far behind.

They Sox aren’t the Yankees. They can’t have all the newest and bestest shiny objects

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they will need three starters next year with sale and porcello eligible for FA. And there is less and less money available as the younger players salaries increase. the team has lost three key pitchers from last year's team (Kimbrell, Kelly and Eovaldi). given relievers tend to have high one-year volatility, it's much wiser to go shorter on them than a starter, given the makeup of the roster and window in which the team is poised to win a WS. Eovaldi is clearly the best option for what the team needs this year and next year (and the year after)

Papelbon's Poutine said:

Eovaldi. And it’s not close. They aren’t signing Ramos, they already have too many catchers and already not playing the best offensive one. In no world is Ottavino worth $15M a year and Eovaldi isn’t worth $21M. Signing Eovaldi does not exclude them from adding a Robertson. And I’d rather root for the Yankees than see Buchholz back in a Sox uniform. So, in short, no.

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I definitely do not agree that the presence of Leon and Vazquez means thinking about Ramos (or Grandal) is off the table. That's not really the point though -- spend the surplus however you want. But the idea that it's better to spend 80 mil extra on Eovaldi -- and that's it's not even close -- is preposterous. Buchholz had double the WAR of Eovaldi last year, in fewer innings. In what year was Eovaldi effective and Buchholz not effective?

All things equal, I'd rather have Eovaldi. He's younger and his stuff is better. But things are far, far, from equal. Give me a year of Buchholz plus 80 mil to spend elsewhere every day of the week.

Unless the Sox are willing to simply blow their payroll out of the water, they're going to have to make some very important strategic decisions this and next year and the year after that. I think paying now to set up their starting pitching will be very important. We don't really know what Sale will cost. If he has arm issues like he did this year, and that affects his performance, maybe he doesn't cost as much (then again, maybe they won't want him as much). Price is now locked in. EdRo is cheap for now but will soon cost real dollars. Signing Eovaldi to a sensible 4-year deal would not only bolster the team for this current window, it will help solidify their rotation for the foreseeable future.

Who knows what Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts, and Bradley will cost. But it's not going to be cheap. I don't know that they will be able to extend these guys at under-market prices. So assume Betts goes to free agency after 2020 and gets full market pay. The Sox should pony up the $$ for him, but they will have to figure that that will be well north of $30 million a season, maybe by then closing in on closer to $40 million per season. Holy crap. Or, and this is a crazy thought, if they try negotiations early and get the sense that they probably can't sign him for anything less than that, they probably, with one year to go, trade him for an absolute dump truck full by way of return, which would include a young, cheap up and coming star and several top prospects. I don't want them to go that route, as I'd rather pay him, but it's an option they would have available.

So yeah, the starting pitching decisions (and the bullpen as well) will be very important this offseason and next. I think Eovaldi is kind of a key type of guy.

Buchholz finished the year hurt - he was scratched from his start on Sept. 14 with a flexor mass strain, and didn't pitch again. He pitched 98.1 innings last year. I don't think he can be counted on as part of the rotation next year.

Plympton91 said:

We don’t need a starter this year.

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We don't? Who's your fifth starter then? Wright, with his bad knee? Johnson, with his career .824 OPS allowed to RHH? Velazquez?

We may not need a starter as good as Eovaldi, but we do need a starter.

Dewey'sCannon said:

Buchholz finished the year hurt - he was scratched from his start on Sept. 14 with a flexor mass strain, and didn't pitch again. He pitched 98.1 innings last year. I don't think he can be counted on as part of the rotation next year.

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Including playoffs, Eovaldi has pitched exactly 11 more innings than Buchholz over the past 3 years.

I get that Buchholz has all sorts of risk. But so does Eovaldi. He was called up to the majors in 2011 and in that time has accumulated 9.6 WAR. How much lower would his price be if the Sox got bounced by NYY? Do we want to pay a huge premium based on a few outings? You'd better be right that you're getting the guy he was over those outings instead of the guy he's been over the past few years. It usually doesn't work out that way.

Savin Hillbilly said:

We don't? Who's your fifth starter then? Wright, with his bad knee? Johnson, with his career .824 OPS allowed to RHH? Velazquez?

We may not need a starter as good as Eovaldi, but we do need a starter.

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The issues you’ve laid out with Wright, Johnson, and Velazquez are the definition of the issues that you have with 5th starters, even on very good teams. And a lot of times, those teams don’t have 3 options that are even that good.

Hey, if John Henry will allow them to have a $260 million payroll, pay a 50%(?) Luxury tax on everything over $210 or so, lose more draft picks, and lose more international signing money for next year, then I’m not going to argue. In that case, let’s sign Eovaldi, Britton/Miller/Ottavino, and Kelly or hopefully better than Kelly, and go to it.

That’s a very short-term philosophy though. come 2020, or soon thereafter, they’ll be the Mets or Mariners, either trying to rig up a wild card long shot or tearing it down to start from scratch.

Plympton91 said:

The issues you’ve laid out with Wright, Johnson, and Velazquez are the definition of the issues that you have with 5th starters, even on very good teams. And a lot of times, those teams don’t have 3 options that are even that good.

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Right - every pitcher out there is roll of the dice to some extent, so why add more gambles when you can just gamble with what is on the roster already?

Devizier said:

A non-guaranteed deal is exactly as much as I'd like to see the team extend Buchholz. I doubt he even matches this year's innings total next year.

If the Red Sox lose out on Eovaldi, they might be best served to wait out the game of musical chairs and sign the remnants. A candidate for "remnant" starter might be someone like Lance Lynn (or possibly even Happ).

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Depending on your metric, Happ is anywhere from the best to third-best starter on the FA market. Wouldn’t remnants would be guys like Edwin Jackson?

Lose Remerswaal said:

What pitchers don't scare you long term?

If you follow baseball you should expect starting pitchers to miss a good chunk of time every 3-5 years. Maybe "just" a half season, but likely longer.

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I guess it comes down to cost. But paying for a hot post season is worrisome. Going into the postseason, I don't think anyone was thinking he'd get what people think he might get now.

If he's commanding $20m/year, I don't know.

Dewey'sCannon said:

Buchholz finished the year hurt - he was scratched from his start on Sept. 14 with a flexor mass strain, and didn't pitch again. He pitched 98.1 innings last year. I don't think he can be counted on as part of the rotation next year.

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Buchholz finished a year hurt??? Very hard to believe

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:

They're also telling us what they want to tell us. They certainly have a fair handle on things, we just don't really know what that means.

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Things have been pretty straightforward since Dombrowski took over.

I came in here to post this piece from Speier, though, on the market for players with two TJ surgeries.

The piece refers to a study with a slightly more systematic methodology than me reading a list of TJS2 recipients and clicking around on baseball-reference.com. And it is much less gloomy about Eovaldi's prospects than I was. Maybe that's true.

moondog80 said:

Including playoffs, Eovaldi has pitched exactly 11 more innings than Buchholz over the past 3 years.

I get that Buchholz has all sorts of risk. But so does Eovaldi. He was called up to the majors in 2011 and in that time has accumulated 9.6 WAR. How much lower would his price be if the Sox got bounced by NYY? Do we want to pay a huge premium based on a few outings? You'd better be right that you're getting the guy he was over those outings instead of the guy he's been over the past few years. It usually doesn't work out that way.

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Buchholz not only has the injury risk, but he turns 35 midseason. Eovaldi's non-all pitchers get hurt injury is whether his elbow holds up. Its one injury (albeit a serious one). Buchholz has an injury to every body part and is facing father time. You can get a medical opinion on Eovaldi's future. You can't get one on Buchholz.

I'm not sure where I am on Eovaldi, but Buchholz is worth no more than a non-guaranteed invite, and he absolutely cannot be part of any responsible plan that counts on him to be available for even 20 starts. Anythign more is indefensible, IMO.

Signing Eovaldi to a multiyear deal is defensible.

BaseballJones said:

So assume Betts goes to free agency after 2020 and gets full market pay. The Sox should pony up the $$ for him, but they will have to figure that that will be well north of $30 million a season, maybe by then closing in on closer to $40 million per season. Holy crap.

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I could see $30M per, but no way they'll get to $40M. Why? The CBT went up $9M this year and that's the big jump in the whole deal. It only goes up $2M in each of the next two years. No one will hamstring their cap to the tune of almost 20% on one player.

The key on guys like Betts, Harper and Machado are going to be total dollars and total years, not the AAV because there just isn't room for higher and higher AAVs for the next couple of years. It's not like the NFL, where the salary cap has been jumping up $10M to $12M per year. My guess is Betts will cost something like $32-$33M per year, but it's going to take an 8-10 year commitment to get him.

Quick question, years and dollars what do most of you think Eovaldi is worth? Rick Porcello was given a 4 year 82.5 extension before he even threw a pitch for the Sox in April of '15. Given he was 3 years younger, but what's the consensus here? Given what Eovaldi has shown here in a short time, does he fit somewhere in that neighborhood?

DanoooME said:

I could see $30M per, but no way they'll get to $40M. Why? The CBT went up $9M this year and that's the big jump in the whole deal. It only goes up $2M in each of the next two years. No one will hamstring their cap to the tune of almost 20% on one player.

The key on guys like Betts, Harper and Machado are going to be total dollars and total years, not the AAV because there just isn't room for higher and higher AAVs for the next couple of years. It's not like the NFL, where the salary cap has been jumping up $10M to $12M per year. My guess is Betts will cost something like $32-$33M per year, but it's going to take an 8-10 year commitment to get him.

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Yeah you might be right. But I'd probably still do it because with his tool kit, he'll be a very very good baseball player for a long time. At worst, he'll be a top-flight defensive player and baserunner. At worst. But he should be at least a solid gap hitter well into his mid-late 30s. So he may be an overpay in years 8, 9, and 10, but by then it won't likely be a massive overpay.

chawson said:

Pick three pitchers from this list:

Buchholz, Bumgarner, Cahill, Cashner, Chacin, Cole, Eovaldi, Estrada, Fiers, Gibson, G. Gonzalez, Graveman, S. Gray, Happ, Harvey, Hellickson, E. Jackson, Keuchel, Lynn, Miley, S. Miller, Morton, Nova, Odorizzi, Pineda, Pomeranz, Porcello, Roark, Ross, Ryu, Sabathia, Sale, An. Sanchez, Santana, Shields, Shoemaker, Verlander, Wacha, Wheeler, Wood

The Sox could make a trade, but it probably won't be for anyone substantial without giving up Benintendi or Devers. Unless Darwinzon Hernandez continues to break out and is somehow ready in 2020 (it's possible), we need to sign or re-sign three from this list. The bold ones are available now, the others next year. Probably half of them should never pitch for the Red Sox.

Without signing Eovaldi, that task seems extraordinarily difficult.

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How about Bogie plus for Syndegaard. sign either Hechvarria or Iggy.

Doctor G said:

How about Bogie plus for Syndegaard. sign either Hechvarria or Iggy.

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The Mets are going to want a centerpiece with more than one year of control remaining. Any deal for Thor would have to start with Devers, or Beni (if they think he can play CF). You could maybe try to sell them on a package starting with EdRo and Chavis, but I would think that others would beat that offer.