I knew that they spelled their names differently, but I couldn't recall which was which so I guessed. Hence, my note about HOF.Isiah.
Isaiah plays for Denver.
(your point, obviously, stands)
I knew that they spelled their names differently, but I couldn't recall which was which so I guessed. Hence, my note about HOF.Isiah.
Isaiah plays for Denver.
(your point, obviously, stands)
For starters, I'd like to see a thread name change...So, when do we officially hit the panic button? Unfortunately, some guys just never recover from injuries to be the player they were before. He certainly can do some things out there, but a big part of his game is atrocious right now. How many times do we see Hayward drive to the basket and either get stripped, get blocked, or some other non-positive outcome?
When pretty much everyone agreed we'd know more? Late this season, possibly *after* the season?So, when do we officially hit the panic button?
Not yet and probably not even within this season. I would say about a month into next season. He suffered a horrific injury and is still working his way back.So, when do we officially hit the panic button?
The medical folks all said he would need a full season of playing time to return to form. So, no panic button need be hit until next season.So, when do we officially hit the panic button? Unfortunately, some guys just never recover from injuries to be the player they were before. He certainly can do some things out there, but a big part of his game is atrocious right now. How many times do we see Hayward drive to the basket and either get stripped, get blocked, or some other non-positive outcome?
If he comes out for 2019-2020 performing exactly as he is now, I'd be concerned. Not until then.So, when do we officially hit the panic button? Unfortunately, some guys just never recover from injuries to be the player they were before. He certainly can do some things out there, but a big part of his game is atrocious right now. How many times do we see Hayward drive to the basket and either get stripped, get blocked, or some other non-positive outcome?
Don't disagree, but isn't this a strong argument for giving more of his minutes now to Brown and Smart?If he comes out for 2019-2020 performing exactly as he is now, I'd be concerned. Not until then.
Not if Hayward needs minutes in hopes of him being an important part of the rotation by the postseason.Don't disagree, but isn't this a strong argument for giving more of his minutes now to Brown and Smart?
No. Because if Hayward is going to get better at playing basketball, it will be by playing basketball.Don't disagree, but isn't this a strong argument for giving more of his minutes now to Brown and Smart?
I was specifically responding to the suggestion that he wouldn't be ready until next year.No. Because if Hayward is going to get better at playing basketball, it will be by playing basketball.
That's with the assumption that he needs to keep playing, not take another 8 months off.I was specifically responding to the suggestion that he wouldn't be ready until next year.
And I'm specifically responding, to be ready for next year he has to play NBA basketball. Now is the time for him to play.I was specifically responding to the suggestion that he wouldn't be ready until next year.
Unless he is released to make room for Allen Iverson.And I'm specifically responding, to be ready for next year he has to play NBA basketball. Now is the time for him to play.
If it’s conditioning, the team should know, and they should be working on it. Not playing him 26 minutes a game. You can’t gain conditioning just by playing. And it’s difficult to train hard if you are playing 26 minutes every other night.I have a pet theory - what are the chances that Hayward's performance is chiefly due to fatigue/lack of conditioning right now? He was off his feet for a long time (in April, he said 'The biggest gain I’ve made is in being able to do single leg calf raises with both legs.'). In late June he had surgery again. How much can you keep up your conditioning in the face of that? Rookies hit the rookie wall despite playing and practicing the year before, then doing draft workouts etc. Why not Hayward? All these shots he's missing, his inconsistency, that's a classic sign of fatigue. I simply can't believe the player we saw against Minnesota or against Dallas somehow got worse after playing more games.
This could be just the eternal Hayward optimist/apologist in me though. I'm very interested to see how he does after the all-star break though.
Compare to Tatum last year though - he kept his minutes even after it was very apparent he had hit the rookie wall.If it’s conditioning, the team should know, and they should be working on it. Not playing him 26 minutes a game. You can’t gain conditioning just by playing. And it’s difficult to train hard if you are playing 26 minutes every other night.
If you play BBall, try putting in 15 pounds weights on both legs and see how well you shoot.The thing I don’t quite get is why he is sucking on wide open shots.
If you play BBall, try putting in 15 pounds weights on both legs and see how well you shoot.
He's not sure of what he can or cannot do and he doesn't have the luxury of just throwing up shots to see what sticks.
If this was remotely accurate he shouldn't be playing.If you play BBall, try putting in 15 pounds weights on both legs and see how well you shoot.
He's not sure of what he can or cannot do and he doesn't have the luxury of just throwing up shots to see what sticks.
Why? The Cs have what, $80MM invested in him over the next 3 years. He'snot going to get better if he doesn't play. Plus, for better or for worse, Brad is clearly loyal to him.If this was remotely accurate he shouldn't be playing.
Serious question, but if the main concern is working through injury, getting him back into basketball shape, and reestablishing confidence, can’t he play in the G League for the remainder of the season? This team can compete for a championship without him, especially if Brad add’s another piece this next week. If he’s blocking more consistent players, a change has to be made at some point.Why? The Cs have what, $80MM invested in him over the next 3 years. He'snot going to get better if he doesn't play. Plus, for better or for worse, Brad is clearly loyal to him.
I just wish Brad would stop putting him on the court in crunch time.
From this article:
According to the NBA.com stats site, the Celtics have a net rating of +1.4 when Hayward is on the floor. When he’s off the floor though this has increased to a +11.4. That’s a full 10 points per 100 possessions better when Hayward is on the bench. Hayward was moved from the starting unit to the bench on November 19. For Hayward himself, it has made no difference. The Celtics still have a net rating of +1.4 when he’s on the floor. The rest of the team though has been even better since he was moved to the bench. When Hayward sits, since November 19, the Celtics have a net rating of 13.9.
He doesn't need reps against suboptimal guys. He needs reps against the best.Serious question, but if the main concern is working through injury, getting him back into basketball shape, and reestablishing confidence, can’t he play in the G League for the remainder of the season? This team can compete for a championship without him, especially if Brad add’s another piece this next week. If he’s blocking more consistent players, a change has to be made at some point.
If it’s a health issue, why does the competition matter? The G league is still full of the top 1% of basketball players in the world. I’d compare it to a long rehab assignment in baseball.He doesn't need reps against suboptimal guys. He needs reps against the best.
I'd prefer 21 minutes to 26 (and think that it matters), but whatever minutes he gets in the NBA are a crapload more valuable than anything in the G league.
He's not learning the game. And the dropoff isn't like getting at bats in AAA. It's much bigger.
I'm not a doctor, but it's an explosiveness issue. Let's say that he has dropped off 10-15% of his prior attack, his physical akills exploding by and over guys. That's the 15% difference that made him a borderline all star instead of a borderline starter. Few of the guys in the G league have that, or they're already on someone's NBA roster. So he's not going to gauge and fine tune that missing part of his game. He'd likely go there and put up 25 every night and learn nothing. It might help his confidence to succeed like that, but it might hurt his confidence that his team even suggests it.If it’s a health issue, why does the competition matter? The G league is still full of the top 1% of basketball players in the world. I’d compare it to a long rehab assignment in baseball.
Jeez, can't a guy have his irony anymore? Talk about anodyne.Done.
It’s still your OP — go ahead and edit it.Jeez, can't a guy have his irony anymore? Talk about anodyne.
edit: look, let's compromise. Find me another suitable star wars quote. "C'mon baby, hold together"? "He's no good to me dead"?
“Um, everything's under control, situation normal.”Jeez, can't a guy have his irony anymore? Talk about anodyne.
edit: look, let's compromise. Find me another suitable star wars quote. "C'mon baby, hold together"? "He's no good to me dead"?
$30M? We can almost buy our own All-Star for that!“Um, everything's under control, situation normal.”
“This isn’t the Gordon Hayward you’re looking for.”
“Help us, Carmelo Anthony, you’re my only hope.”
“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”
“What a piece of junk!”
The idea that he has 30lbs strapped to his feet was part of what I disputed. If he was physically that bad, he would be unable to play.Why? The Cs have what, $80MM invested in him over the next 3 years. He'snot going to get better if he doesn't play. Plus, for better or for worse, Brad is clearly loyal to him.
I just wish Brad would stop putting him on the court in crunch time.
.
I didn't say that GH was playing like he had weights on his legs. I was trying to make the point that if a poster wanted some empathy in what GH was going through, strap on some ankle weights. You know, kind of like an analogy.The idea that he has 30lbs strapped to his feet was part of what I disputed. If he was physically that bad, he would be unable to play.
The best hope for this year, is he figures out his stroke with this new, worse body and can be a valuable bench shooter.
“I think ideally I would have been able to play five-on-five all summer, but I wasn’t able to do that,” Hayward told MassLive after the Boston Celtics win over the New York Knicks. “So I didn’t start playing five-on-five until end of September. Definitely was something I had to adjust to, and so I basically was kinda working my way back at the beginning of the season. But, it is what it is.”
The end of September is the beginning of the preseason, putting Hayward in the unenviable position of trying to learn his teammates while re-learning who he himself was at that point.
Doing the math could have predicted this uptick in athleticism. Instead of playing full-court basketball at the end of May, he began at the end of September, which is a four-month setback. Four months from the end of September is the end of January, which means Hayward is only today getting himself to where he’d hoped to be.
As mentioned elsewhere, a good playoff run from Gordon drastically changes the Celtics leverage and options this offseason. For starters, Kyrie might re-up regardless of AD. I'm cautiously optimistic: that alley-oop last night looked qualitatively different from his other dunk attempts this year.https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/02/boston-celtics-gordon-hayward-is-feeling-his-athleticism-slowly-starting-to-come-back.html
There's been a few posts here about how the second procedure Hayward had set him back. Here he is:
That dunk on Randle at 0:25 is ridiculous. I forgot how explosive he was. It's weird though: a lot of those clips are off his right leg, and you have to think that should come back totally fine, no?I don't think we see the old Gordon until next season. That dunk last night is still far off from this guy.
Woah there, I know his shot was off, but this is a bridge too farSmart was wife fucking
I'm using your words here--but if every game was 8 of 11 and 6 of 7 from three, then of course he's a max player.Iif every game was like last night's, I don't think he's a max player.