2020 Pats: Bengals Coach Implies Patriots Taping Play Signals

tims4wins

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I'll check it out on the upcoming SC but, I think my post made it sound worse than was my intent. It seemed more of "this is a minor infraction of the rules and the only thing that could make it into something more would be a connection to football ops". I did not get any sense that he had info to that effect or even that he was hoping for more to come of it. Unlikely as it might seem, he seemed to treat this, y'know...objectively.
Thanks for the clarification. That's good to hear.
 

Salem's Lot

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Everyone is trying to see this in the worst light possible even though it's pretty clear what they were doing.
You should hear the nitwits on 98.5 now. They’re trying to say that since the producer guy said “my bad” to the 3-4 security people in his face at the time that that is an admission of guilt. Like nobody has ever used the phrase “my bad” to de-escalate a situation.
 

RedOctober3829

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You should hear the nitwits on 98.5 now. They’re trying to say that since the producer guy said “my bad” to the 3-4 security people in his face at the time that that is an admission of guilt. Like nobody has ever used the phrase “my bad” to de-escalate a situation.
Yeah unfortunately I have it on as background noise and hear Felger thinks the footage wasn't for the DYJ special and that the team should get fined $1 million and docked a 3rd round pick. This is the drive time, most popular show in Boston and sets the narrative for a lot of people.
 

Haunted

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Yeah unfortunately I have it on as background noise and hear Felger thinks the footage wasn't for the DYJ special and that the team should get fined $1 million and docked a 3rd round pick. This is the drive time, most popular show in Boston and sets the narrative for a lot of people.
"Their own sports reporters think they're guilty!"

TMZ has better quality journalism than this.
 

PedroKsBambino

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That's not the logic he mentioned. I'm legitimately confused as to how you read that and got there. It specifically says "on our sidelines". Unless you are being deliberately uncharitable to the term "sidelines".
I don't know what is confusing there---there is no argument that the video people were on the Patriots sideline at the time, is there? Thus, when the person says Belichick should be accountable they can only be using an incredibly broad definition of 'sideline' And once you are doing that, you certainly can't argue that what a player does off the field is less on the coach than what a team employee outside of football ops does off the field.

It's an idiotic quote given the known facts.
 

tims4wins

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I don't know what is confusing there---there is no argument that the video people were on the Patriots sideline at the time, is there? Thus, when the person says Belichick should be accountable they can only be using an incredibly broad definition of 'sideline' And once you are doing that, you certainly can't argue that what a player does off the field is less on the coach than what a team employee outside of football ops does off the field.

It's an idiotic quote given the known facts.
No one was on the Bengals sideline. What are you talking about???
 

PedroKsBambino

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The quote I was responding to was:

From Peter King’s Monday column:

‘One club official asked me Sunday: “The NFL has told us that anyone on our sidelines doing anything illegal or wrong—that falls on the head coach. So why doesn’t this fall on Bill Belichick?”
The obvious comment---which I think has been made here---is that the video crew wasn't on the Patriots sideline so it has nothing to do with Bill Belichick (based on current facts, at least).

The other interpretation one could have---that the head coach is responsible no matter what---is fairly silly, and would mean (among other things) coaches are responsible for what players do off the field as well. Which of course is not what the NFL every has applied as a standard
 

E5 Yaz

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King was on the Rich Eisen show this morning and said he was told at the owners' meeting that if this had been any other franchise, it would be seen as no big deal
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Now Ernie Adams was part of this according to them. This is bananaland.
Hahaha. Ernie Adams doesn't need sideline footage of opponents - he is widely known to be an expert telepath.


People are saying that the Ravens and Colts have lobbied to make sure he is locked in a "Mirror Guy" protected room all season long.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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The hot takes are becoming performance art. Nick Wright: “The prestige franchise in the league is addicted to cheating.”
This is one of many reasons why each SB win is so, so, sweet. The usual media idiots and well-intentioned "analysts" all repeat past BS as part of the evidence against the Pats. F'em all.
 

BigSoxFan

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This is one of many reasons why each SB win is so, so, sweet. The usual media idiots and well-intentioned "analysts" all repeat past BS as part of the evidence against the Pats. F'em all.
I’d really love to know where the inflection point was for Pats hatred with America. Nobody hated the Niners like this. Feels like it was in place by Spygate already. Pats were the bees knees after SB36 but it’s almost like people got pissed when they proved 36 was no fluke.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I’d really love to know where the inflection point was for Pats hatred with America. Nobody hated the Niners like this. Feels like it was in place by Spygate already. Pats were the bees knees after SB36 but it’s almost like people got pissed when they proved 36 was no fluke.
I think it was during the undefeated season when the Patriots "ran" the score up on everyone. And to be honest, as much as I despise Mercury Morris, I always root against the late season undefeated teams.
 

Marciano490

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I’d really love to know where the inflection point was for Pats hatred with America. Nobody hated the Niners like this. Feels like it was in place by Spygate already. Pats were the bees knees after SB36 but it’s almost like people got pissed when they proved 36 was no fluke.
What's odd to me, though not at all surprising (disappointing, sure), is how in all the shit talk I hear about the Patriots, nobody ever mentions Hernandez or signing Haynesworth or Dillon or Harrison. That to me is the gross side of winning at all costs.

In most other sports, including football, innoculous cheating is celebrated. There was a play a few weeks ago where a receiver was tackled, ran the ball forward a bit and placed it down, and the confused refs goofed the new line of scrimmage. The announcers thought it was the best thing ever.
 

lexrageorge

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I’d really love to know where the inflection point was for Pats hatred with America. Nobody hated the Niners like this. Feels like it was in place by Spygate already. Pats were the bees knees after SB36 but it’s almost like people got pissed when they proved 36 was no fluke.
The Patriots were supposed to always be the laughingstock franchise. Sure, they were allowed to have their occasional Super Bowl appearance; they were even allowed to win one.

But then they broke the narrative by sticking around. Belichick did not go out of his way to genuflect to the media, which bothered some. Remember "they hate their coach". There was Ron Borges' cutting edge analysis of the Seymour and Light draft (that one will never get old). And the Patriots responded by winning two more. And then they kept winning in a league designed for parity.

Spygate came at a too convenient time. It allowed everyone to say "Aha, that's why they were so good; they CHEATED!!". And then they the audacity to win 3 more Super Bowls.
 

RedOctober3829

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Nick Wright saved the best for later. What happened in Cleveland was one of two things: Belichick ordered the camera crew to go film the field or the producer thought he’d get an extra atta boy or good job from the organization when he showed the film because they embrace cheating.
 

E5 Yaz

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Nobody hated the Niners like this.
Consider the media landscape at that time. It's exacerbated by the hot-take, instantaneous bloviating by anyone with the mic or a keyboard.

I think it started with the Belichick jumping ship on the Jets (alienating a segment of the NY media), followed by the Tuck Rule game -- which despite being the correct call, confounded the average fan tuning in for the playoffs. Add in ESPN getting put out by the attitude by the organization, and it built from there
 

RedOctober3829

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Consider the media landscape at that time. It's exacerbated by the hot-take, instantaneous bloviating by anyone with the mic or a keyboard.

I think it started with the Belichick jumping ship on the Jets (alienating a segment of the NY media), followed by the Tuck Rule game -- which despite being the correct call, confounded the average fan tuning in for the playoffs. Add in ESPN getting put out by the attitude by the organization, and it built from there
I know a number of fans (not Raiders fans either) who hate the Patriots because of the Tuck Rule. It’s crazy.
 

steveluck7

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...or the producer thought he’d get an extra atta boy or good job from the organization when he showed the film because they embrace cheating.
Amazing that someone actually said this seriously.
I almost mockingly asked a poster earlier in this thread if he thought the guy was just gonna inter office the video to Bill and hope to score points
 

Jimbodandy

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You should hear the nitwits on 98.5 now. They’re trying to say that since the producer guy said “my bad” to the 3-4 security people in his face at the time that that is an admission of guilt. Like nobody has ever used the phrase “my bad” to de-escalate a situation.
Nobody should hear the nitwits on 98.5, now or ever.
 
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loshjott

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I don't know what is confusing there---there is no argument that the video people were on the Patriots sideline at the time, is there? Thus, when the person says Belichick should be accountable they can only be using an incredibly broad definition of 'sideline' And once you are doing that, you certainly can't argue that what a player does off the field is less on the coach than what a team employee outside of football ops does off the field.

It's an idiotic quote given the known facts.
Which sideline was the Patriots, the Bengals or the Browns? The Patriots were Foxborough getting ready for the Chiefs at the time.
 

Harry Hooper

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Funny, and this touches on something that will make the Commish have to thrash about a bit. The NFL and teams want to develop more revenue streams such as in-house video and website stuff, and the Pats have been a leader in this realm. The Commish will not be eager to throttle down innovation with such content by imposing a major penalty, but there are various constituencies he will not want to alienate either.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I’d really love to know where the inflection point was for Pats hatred with America. Nobody hated the Niners like this. Feels like it was in place by Spygate already. Pats were the bees knees after SB36 but it’s almost like people got pissed when they proved 36 was no fluke.
I think it is a combination of things. First, the media already hated BB from his Cleveland days and he hasn't made their lives any easier during his 20 years here so there's that. Second, the lazy, stupid narrative wins almost always with the general public, so believing that cheating is the reason they always win is easier than giving them credit for being great, particularly among opposing fan bases. Lastly, media coverage of sports is just so much different now than it was 30 or 40 years ago. It is all hot takes all the time, whoever can say the stupidest, most controversial thing gets the most clicks. Being measured and logical doesn't play in the sports media.

All of that said, DFG and this whole shit show are not a thing that anyone gives a shit about if Spygate never happened. That was an incredibly stupid, incredibly damaging self-inflicted wound that makes every single other of these controversies way more stupid and overblown than they need to be.
 

54thMA

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I really truly love the fact that fans across the league are convinced they have dominated the league for the better part of 20 years because they cheat.

Yup, that's the reason alright, keep thinking that, whatever helps you sleep at night.

The Romans dominated for so long and Napoleon conquered Europe because they cheated.

Sure they did.
 

McBride11

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What's odd to me, though not at all surprising (disappointing, sure), is how in all the shit talk I hear about the Patriots, nobody ever mentions Hernandez or signing Haynesworth or Dillon or Harrison. That to me is the gross side of winning at all costs.

In most other sports, including football, innoculous cheating is celebrated. There was a play a few weeks ago where a receiver was tackled, ran the ball forward a bit and placed it down, and the confused refs goofed the new line of scrimmage. The announcers thought it was the best thing ever.
Did Harrison or Dillon do anything besides being malcontents or outspoken? I thought AH was cut shortly after his murdering tendencies were confirmed. The other AH was certainly a dick and cheap shot artist and did have some off field issues (traffic violations, not paying loans, not paying child support, etc)

It isn't like the Pats brought in Tyreek Hill or Kareem Hunt or Rae Carruth or Ray Lewis.

Not saying the Pats only bring in angels but some of those examples seem overly critical.
 

lexrageorge

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What's odd to me, though not at all surprising (disappointing, sure), is how in all the shit talk I hear about the Patriots, nobody ever mentions Hernandez or signing Haynesworth or Dillon or Harrison. That to me is the gross side of winning at all costs.

In most other sports, including football, innoculous cheating is celebrated. There was a play a few weeks ago where a receiver was tackled, ran the ball forward a bit and placed it down, and the confused refs goofed the new line of scrimmage. The announcers thought it was the best thing ever.
Did Harrison or Dillon do anything besides being malcontents or outspoken? I thought AH was cut shortly after his murdering tendencies were confirmed. The other AH was certainly a dick and cheap shot artist and did have some off field issues (traffic violations, not paying loans, not paying child support, etc)

It isn't like the Pats brought in Tyreek Hill or Kareem Hunt or Rae Carruth or Ray Lewis.

Not saying the Pats only bring in angels but some of those examples seem overly critical.
I believe Dillon had either been sued or arrested for a DV incident at one point when he was with the Bengals. Or it may have been an assault (non-domestic). Harrison got caught with HGH after he was with the Patriots, but I don't recall anything in his past other than league suspensions and fines for dirty hits. Still, there are 31 other teams that would have easily signed either one and not given it a second thought, so I also don't understand the criticism.

I do wish the Pats avoided Haynesworth. As for Hernandez, he did drop in the draft due to rumored "character issues", but the only official black mark was an arrest for marijuana possession. Cannot really blame the team for anything that happened afterwards.

And don't get me started on Ray Lewis....
 

McBride11

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I believe Dillon had either been sued or arrested for a DV incident at one point when he was with the Bengals. Or it may have been an assault (non-domestic). Harrison got caught with HGH after he was with the Patriots, but I don't recall anything in his past other than league suspensions and fines for dirty hits. Still, there are 31 other teams that would have easily signed either one and not given it a second thought, so I also don't understand the criticism.

I do wish the Pats avoided Haynesworth. As for Hernandez, he did drop in the draft due to rumored "character issues", but the only official black mark was an arrest for marijuana possession. Cannot really blame the team for anything that happened afterwards.

And don't get me started on Ray Lewis....
You're right about CKCD , but the DUI and DV appears to have happened post NFL career from what I can tell.

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/387289-former-bengalspatriots-rb-corey-dillon-arrested-again
 

8slim

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I’d really love to know where the inflection point was for Pats hatred with America. Nobody hated the Niners like this. Feels like it was in place by Spygate already. Pats were the bees knees after SB36 but it’s almost like people got pissed when they proved 36 was no fluke.
It was 2004. I distinctly remember people saying how sick of the Pats they were heading into that Super Bowl. It wasn’t because of Belichick’s bland pressers, or that the franchise had largely been a mediocrity, or whatever. It was because we were on our way to winning 3 titles in 4 years and people started to hate.

At the same time, the Pats also became wildly popular. The Pats are simultaneously the most hated team in thre league, and the 2nd most popular (Cowboys #1).
 

Cotillion

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Just to help level set.

Here are penalties from some recent infractions. Ignoring the ones where no penalty was even enforced.

Of course, they’re the Patriots, so the penalty will be four to five times stronger than it would be for any other team doing the exact same thing. So instead of just the $150,000 fine issued to the Giants and a backward shift 10 spots in the fourth round of the draft when head coach Ben McAdoo illegally used a walkie-talkie during a game, or the Browns getting hit with a $250,000 fine and a GM suspension when the GM was texting to the sidelines during a game, expect a little more. It shouldn’t match the $350,000 fine and stripping of a fifth-round pick that was levied on the Falcons for pumping in crowd noise during games … but it probably will.
Via Michael Hurley.
 

EvilEmpire

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At the same time, the Pats also became wildly popular. The Pats are simultaneously the most hated team in thre league, and the 2nd most popular (Cowboys #1).
I think the bolded is important.

I honestly think some of the Patriots hate has less to do with the Patriots as a team, great success, scandals and all, than it does with a certain kind of Patriots fan. Same with some Cowboys fans. Same with some Yankees fans, particularly ones who jumped on the bandwagon in the 90's. Frontrunning douchebags who are always yapping. The more annoying fans a team has, the easier it is to indulge in the negativity.

Doesn't make it right though.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Wait, we have a "Nations Tears..." thread here in this forum and people are wondering if/when/why fans of opposing teams don't like New England and its fanbase?
 

shawnrbu

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I believe Dillon had either been sued or arrested for a DV incident at one point when he was with the Bengals. Or it may have been an assault (non-domestic). Harrison got caught with HGH after he was with the Patriots, but I don't recall anything in his past other than league suspensions and fines for dirty hits. Still, there are 31 other teams that would have easily signed either one and not given it a second thought, so I also don't understand the criticism.
I think Marciano was referring to James Harrison; not Rodney.
 

SamCassellsStones

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I think it was during the undefeated season when the Patriots "ran" the score up on everyone. And to be honest, as much as I despise Mercury Morris, I always root against the late season undefeated teams.
Having spent some time in non-New England areas, i think the perceived arrogance and pretentiousness of both the organization and fan base is at the root of the hate. Spygate and the inflammatory reporting took the hatred to a new level, which is where it still stands today
 

pedro1918

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I remember people hating on Brady for leaving his pregnant girlfriend and hooking up with a supermodel.

Every knew that fling wouldn’t last. Think of the children Tom!!!
 

joe dokes

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My priorities need a "heat check" because it disheartens me the country views my favorite football team as cheaters and our superbowls as illegitimate? OK. It's just kind of annoying that I can't get Patriots related content from any local or national outlet without going through "wHy ArE tHeY tHe OnLy OnEs ChEaTiNg?!?1?one?"
To the bolded: Yes. A thousand billion million times. Maybe more.
 

amRadio

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Not sure how to respond to that. I don't think my "priorities" really matter here and our Superbowls have an asterisk in the minds of the football viewing public. I think that's largely a product of irresponsible reporting and some really dumb conduct on the part of the team.That's a shame, and it makes following the NFL less rewarding. Sorry if that is not a popular opinion.
 

tims4wins

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Not sure how to respond to that. I don't think my "priorities" really matter here and our Superbowls have an asterisk in the minds of the football viewing public. I think that's largely a product of irresponsible reporting and some really dumb conduct on the part of the team.That's a shame, and it makes following the NFL less rewarding. Sorry if that is not a popular opinion.
Fully agree with you. It sucks having to defend them
 

BaseballJones

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Fully agree with you. It sucks having to defend them
It does but what's more frustrating is that 99% of people are completely clueless about this. A good friend of mine, who's a Bills fan, posted the other day that the Patriots beating Cincy..."looked almost as if they knew what Cincy was going to do". Not tongue-in-cheek. Now I just let it go, let him wallow in his own ignorance, but this stuff happens ALL THE TIME. I did write a huge paper on Deflategate (people can PM me if they're actually interested in reading it) that I sent to my cousin who's pretty sharp but who was convinced the Patriots did something. But after reading it, he said, you know what, you've convinced me. And he was serious. So he's not on the "Cheatriots" bandwagon anymore. So...yay.
 

joe dokes

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Fully agree with you. It sucks having to defend them
Breaking rocks in the hot sun also sucks. Luckily for me, it's not my job to do that, either. Maybe I just dont have the mental bandwidth to care. I was in a Maryland hotel bar sunday night with a pile of Eagles fans, most of whom had occupied the stadium earlier in the day for the road game at Washington. They hate the Steelers. I admitted to the Pats-related ambivalence while watching and talking about Bills-Steelers. There was some good-natured shit about cheating, etc. When I said somethign like, "the Eagles are 7-7 and barely beat Washington. they shoud try it." One of 'em bought me the next beer. Some nitwit thinks he "won" because he got a Patriot fan to say, "yeah they cheat, so what?" I got a free beer.
 

Nator

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The hate started back in 2003-2004 for several reasons:

1. They never seemed to have the most talented top-line stars in many of their match-ups. However the versatility and depth of their mid-level talent was far beyond that of any other team. People wanted to see Terrell Owens and Marvin Harrison scoring touchdowns, not David Givens and Christian Fauria.

2. They won ugly. They simply weren't aesthetically pleasing. A lot of 17-13 type wins.

3. They consistently beat the aesthetically pleasing team national media wanted to win.

4. I am not sure why, but beating Manning really pissed off a lot of ESPN and CBS folks. I think they believed in the romantic notion of the golden boy, NFL legacy, number one overall pick vindicating his Dad's forgotten career. The Patriots severely disrupted that. It was made even worse in their eyes that Manning would not even make it into a superbowl before losing, thus robbing them of 2 weeks of fawning uncluttered coverage.

5. Bill's press interactions provided little to no copy for said media, exacerbating disdain created from points 3 & 4.