Alex Verdugo, new Red Sox star!

luckysox

Indiana Jones
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Apr 21, 2009
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Yep, fuck this kid. I hope he fails here and I’m not lying. I don’t want to root for him, unless and until he comes out and says, “I’m embarrassed about that night. I'm working in being a better person. I plan to keep working on that, and to direct my charitable work toward helping women and girls that are exploited,” I hope he sucks and they release the shit head. And Bloom shit the bed on this. If this was the only thing they could get done, they shouldn’t have done it.
 

Brianish

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Dec 11, 2008
5,556
Didn't realize Verdugo was one of these guys. Didn't realize these guys were still in baseball.

Welp, I hate this now. I'd legitimately be happier if we cut him loose tomorrow.
 

JimD

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Nov 29, 2001
8,681
Yep, fuck this kid. I hope he fails here and I’m not lying. I don’t want to root for him, unless and until he comes out and says, “I’m embarrassed about that night. I'm working in being a better person. I plan to keep working on that, and to direct my charitable work toward helping women and girls that are exploited,” I hope he sucks and they release the shit head. And Bloom shit the bed on this. If this was the only thing they could get done, they shouldn’t have done it.
I hope that is exactly what they do. Nothing can make up for what that young woman went through that night, but there is potential for positive action here that can help others.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Sep 12, 2003
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I hope that is exactly what they do. Nothing can make up for what that young woman went through that night, but there is potential for positive action here that can help others.
He recently gave an update on his back, while dressed as the Meme Scumbag Steve. Not sure if there is much hope for this kid.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8khLmuRRTV0


Scumbag Steve
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/scumbag-steve
I hope attendance and ratings are brutal. I wont be giving them a dime.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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Apr 14, 2009
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Yep, fuck this kid. I hope he fails here and I’m not lying. I don’t want to root for him, unless and until he comes out and says, “I’m embarrassed about that night. I'm working in being a better person. I plan to keep working on that, and to direct my charitable work toward helping women and girls that are exploited,” I hope he sucks and they release the shit head. And Bloom shit the bed on this. If this was the only thing they could get done, they shouldn’t have done it.
This is where I'm at. And the fact that he's the antithesis of Betts, both on and off the field at age 23, makes this whole situation even more excruciating. Bloom off the rose of Chaim and the season. I'm going to still watch, because summer wouldn't be summer without me watching 120+ ball games and it's been a quarter century of me spending those months like that, but the Sox are less talented as a team and Boston less talented as a community without Betts, not even factoring Verdugo being a shitheel.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Oct 23, 2001
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So I guess its not too soon to add this guy to the "Who is the most disliked Red Sox player acquisition ever? AT THE TIME OF ACQUISTION" thread?

I wonder what are the chances of him being a 21st century version of Stan Papi, who only ended up appearing in 48 games for the Bosox. Between the back, the attitude and the molestation, its not hard to imagine his tenure being short.
 

Salem's Lot

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Bloom is going to figure out really quickly that this isn’t Tampa. People actually pay attention here. This kid is going to (rightly) get ripped to shreds in this market until he’s eventually moved for a couple of A ball lottery tickets that we’ll never hear about. You just can’t bring guys like this in, especially in a trade for a guy like Mookie Betts. The whole organization is tone deaf.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
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Bloom is going to figure out really quickly that this isn’t Tampa. People actually pay attention here. This kid is going to (rightly) get ripped to shreds in this market until he’s eventually moved for a couple of A ball lottery tickets that we’ll never hear about. You just can’t bring guys like this in, especially in a trade for a guy like Mookie Betts. The whole organization is tone deaf.
Agree

Agree

Agree

Agree

Agree

He better not make it to March 8th, or there's going to be a march of another kind down Daniels Parkway.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Bloom is going to figure out really quickly that this isn’t Tampa. People actually pay attention here. This kid is going to (rightly) get ripped to shreds in this market until he’s eventually moved for a couple of A ball lottery tickets that we’ll never hear about. You just can’t bring guys like this in, especially in a trade for a guy like Mookie Betts. The whole organization is tone deaf.
Is it possible they didn’t know about this? Not sure which story I like better — that they missed it or that they ignored it.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Is it possible they didn’t know about this? Not sure which story I like better — that they missed it or that they ignored it.
Of course they know about it. It's the old Luhnow way, trade for a distressed asset because it's available.

I mean, the main people involved were Nick Francona and Gabe Kapler, both with Red Sox ties. Of course they knew all about it.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
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Of course they know about it. It's the old Luhnow way, trade for a distressed asset because it's available.

I mean, the main people involved were Nick Francona and Gabe Kapler, both with Red Sox ties. Of course they knew all about it.
Exactly. Bloom is banking on an undervalued asset. He knew exactly what he was getting.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
24,369
If they missed this they should fire the whole front office and start over.
What if they knew about it and did it anyway? Were they hoping to pull one over on us? Were they thinking this was no big deal? Did they interview the guy and came away convinced that he really isn't that bad a dude?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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What if they knew about it and did it anyway? Were they hoping to pull one over on us? Were they thinking this was no big deal? Did they interview the guy and came away convinced that he really isn't that bad a dude?
They saw 23 and cheap. That's likely all it was.

Even taking away the assault incident, Verdugo is a highly questionable return. Injuries, maturity, attitude, and effort are all huge problems.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
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Jul 15, 2005
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What if they knew about it and did it anyway? Were they hoping to pull one over on us? Were they thinking this was no big deal? Did they interview the guy and came away convinced that he really isn't that bad a dude?
They were probably just looking at the talent. This kind of thing doesn’t get publicized in a market like Tampa, so Bloom probably thinks they can get away with it.
 

MartyBC

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Jul 22, 2017
50
People forgave Kobe Bryant and he actually did it. Now the whole world mourns him and any media outlet bringing up Kobe at age 19 gets hit hard for it. One journalist reporter or whatever they call themselves these days lost her job over it. Was Kobe a POS? Did he deserve a second chance? Should he have failed at basketball?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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People forgave Kobe Bryant and he actually did it. Now the whole world mourns him and any media outlet bringing up Kobe at age 19 gets hit hard for it. One journalist reporter or whatever they call themselves these days lost her job over it. Was Kobe a POS? Did he deserve a second chance? Should he have failed at basketball?
Yes. No. Yes.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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People forgave Kobe Bryant and he actually did it. Now the whole world mourns him and any media outlet bringing up Kobe at age 19 gets hit hard for it. One journalist reporter or whatever they call themselves these days lost her job over it. Was Kobe a POS? Did he deserve a second chance? Should he have failed at basketball?
If Kobe (he was 25 or 26, not 19...not that it matters much) did what he did today, I honestly think he never plays in the NBA again.
 

Archer1979

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This is a case of either apathy vs. ignorance for the front office and neither is encouraging. They either didn't know (which I find disconcerting given that SOSH found it in pretty short order) or they didn't care enough to think that this was an issue (which elicits about ten different types of negative responses).

Let's hope someone in the deal has an undisclosed elbow tear or something so we can rip this one up and start over again.
 

Rovin Romine

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Well, it's concerning, but really people need to slow their hot-take roll on this one, and bone up on reading skills.

1) He was with a group in public - the group included a 17 year old. There's no indication Vurdugo knew her age or invited her, or bought her drinks, and short of that, this is nothing. How many of you at age whatever insisted on carding strangers when drinking at a bar in public?

2) Group goes to hotel. Again, there's no indication that Vurdugo knew someone else was assaulting this girl. How many of you at age whatever patrolled house parties to make sure nothing untoward was happening anywhere at any time? In fact, per the article, the sexual assault stopped when others, including Vurdugo, returned.

3) Per the article there was a fight between the women. How many of you at age whatever played the hero an intervened in fights between people whom (in all likelihood) you just met earlier that day. There's no indication anyone's life was in danger, or specifics about the length and details of the assault.

So yeah, he was near some stupid (and criminal) shit that happened in 2014-2015.

If he's found to be more culpable than the article is suggesting, then yes, it's a concern.

Otherwise, I'm not really sure what the hand-wringing is about.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
42,271
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Yep, fuck this kid. I hope he fails here and I’m not lying. I don’t want to root for him, unless and until he comes out and says, “I’m embarrassed about that night. I'm working in being a better person. I plan to keep working on that, and to direct my charitable work toward helping women and girls that are exploited,” I hope he sucks and they release the shit head. And Bloom shit the bed on this. If this was the only thing they could get done, they shouldn’t have done it.
If we know about it then the press will. The team is going to have to address it and eventually so will Verdugo. 90 percent chance they get it wrong and make it worse because that is always what happens. But at least there is a possibility that it is addressed in a positive way that perhaps takes a step forward instead of a step back.

Because right now that 10 percent chance, or a DFA, are about the only options that are going to rescue this shitty situation.

I just cannot believe the depravity of the events that are reported as having happened in that motel. And while it is still not entirely clear what Verdugo did, just having a guy on the team involved in that night is turning my stomach. If a novel started out with a runaway minor being exploited and treated like that you would spend the rest of the book waiting for the payoff where the bad guys to get theirs. I can’t fucking shake it.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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I love how we all root for this team


Derrick Rose came away just fine 4 years ago.
True, though that was civil. If Kobe case happens today there's a better chance that the case doesn't get dropped, they prosecute him and he does a whole bunch of time in prison.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
42,271
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Well, it's concerning, but really people need to slow their hot-take roll on this one, and bone up on reading skills.

1) He was with a group in public - the group included a 17 year old. There's no indication Vurdugo knew her age or invited her, or bought her drinks, and short of that, this is nothing. How many of you at age whatever insisted on carding strangers when drinking at a bar in public?

2) Group goes to hotel. Again, there's no indication that Vurdugo knew someone else was assaulting this girl. How many of you at age whatever patrolled house parties to make sure nothing untoward was happening anywhere at any time? In fact, per the article, the sexual assault stopped when others, including Vurdugo, returned.

3) Per the article there was a fight between the women. How many of you at age whatever played the hero an intervened in fights between people whom (in all likelihood) you just met earlier that day. There's no indication anyone's life was in danger, or specifics about the length and details of the assault.

So yeah, he was near some stupid (and criminal) shit that happened in 2014-2015.

If he's found to be more culpable than the article is suggesting, then yes, it's a concern.

Otherwise, I'm not really sure what the hand-wringing is about.
Your work exposes you to more depravity than the rest of us. It gives you a different perspective I think. Fair enough. I want no part of it.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Apr 22, 2016
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Well, it's concerning, but really people need to slow their hot-take roll on this one, and bone up on reading skills.

1) He was with a group in public - the group included a 17 year old. There's no indication Vurdugo knew her age or invited her, or bought her drinks, and short of that, this is nothing. How many of you at age whatever insisted on carding strangers when drinking at a bar in public?

2) Group goes to hotel. Again, there's no indication that Vurdugo knew someone else was assaulting this girl. How many of you at age whatever patrolled house parties to make sure nothing untoward was happening anywhere at any time? In fact, per the article, the sexual assault stopped when others, including Vurdugo, returned.

3) Per the article there was a fight between the women. How many of you at age whatever played the hero an intervened in fights between people whom (in all likelihood) you just met earlier that day. There's no indication anyone's life was in danger, or specifics about the length and details of the assault.

So yeah, he was near some stupid (and criminal) shit that happened in 2014-2015.

If he's found to be more culpable than the article is suggesting, then yes, it's a concern.

Otherwise, I'm not really sure what the hand-wringing is about.
I might be more willing to buy that this was some sort of wrong-place, wrong-time immature youth thing if he was otherwise a model upstanding citizen, but he just seems like a dickhead all around (missing practice, being dogged by questions of effort/maturity, etc.). So I'm not exactly willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

At absolute minimum, if the above is true in terms of lack of culpability, he needs to immediately come out and (a) explain exactly what happened on that night and his part in it and (b) make clear that he'll never put himself in that position again. If he instead just gives some version of "I don't want to talk about the past" then he's probably a lost cause.

100% agreed that this is Bloom pulling an "Astros-signing-Osuna" move, and that's really troubling.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I really do think Bloom has no idea that this isn't Tampa. He could have gotten away with this back there. In Boston, it's fertile ground for discussion, exposure, and criticism, all of it highly deserved.

Is he gonna sign Luke Heimlich next, as Luhnow wanted to? (Cheap shot but you get the idea).
 
Last edited:

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,369
Well, it's concerning, but really people need to slow their hot-take roll on this one, and bone up on reading skills.

1) He was with a group in public - the group included a 17 year old. There's no indication Vurdugo knew her age or invited her, or bought her drinks, and short of that, this is nothing. How many of you at age whatever insisted on carding strangers when drinking at a bar in public?

2) Group goes to hotel. Again, there's no indication that Vurdugo knew someone else was assaulting this girl. How many of you at age whatever patrolled house parties to make sure nothing untoward was happening anywhere at any time? In fact, per the article, the sexual assault stopped when others, including Vurdugo, returned.

3) Per the article there was a fight between the women. How many of you at age whatever played the hero an intervened in fights between people whom (in all likelihood) you just met earlier that day. There's no indication anyone's life was in danger, or specifics about the length and details of the assault.

So yeah, he was near some stupid (and criminal) shit that happened in 2014-2015.

If he's found to be more culpable than the article is suggesting, then yes, it's a concern.

Otherwise, I'm not really sure what the hand-wringing is about.
I'm re-reading the article. Which isn't an actual news article, I don't think, but some sort of blog. That's not to say it isn't speaking truthfully; on the contrary, I have no reason to believe it's wrong. But after re-reading it, nowhere does it mention Verdugo actually doing anything wrong. It was the two women who attacked this girl, and Baldwin who sexually assaulted her. And apparently he stopped when the others (presumably Verdugo included) returned.

So we don't really know what involvement Verdugo had in all this. Maybe he was there when the women were attacking this poor girl. Maybe he let it happen. Maybe he laughed and encouraged it. Maybe he tried to tell them to cut the crap. We don't know. But if we are to believe the story, he had nothing to do with the sexual assault piece of the story, as it happened when he was out of the room and as soon as he returned, it stopped. Or maybe it stopped when Baldwin heard the door start to open. Maybe Verdugo had no clue that was happening. Or maybe they entered, saw what he was doing, and they let it continue for a few minutes before Baldwin stopped.

We really don't know much of anything.

Maybe the Sox interviewed him and came away believing that he didn't really do anything wrong in that situation. I have no idea. What appears to be true is that he was somewhat involved in a horrible situation where a girl was physically and sexually assaulted. That's enough to raise a lot of red flags for me. But I am willing to see if there is further information on this because it's *possible* that he actually didn't do anything wrong and wasn't really "involved" in any of the wrong-doing at all. It's certainly possible that he did, but it's possible that he didn't. This is wayyyy less clear (in terms of what Verdugo did or didn't do ) than the Kobe rape case.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,091
Well, it's concerning, but really people need to slow their hot-take roll on this one, and bone up on reading skills.

1) He was with a group in public - the group included a 17 year old. There's no indication Vurdugo knew her age or invited her, or bought her drinks, and short of that, this is nothing. How many of you at age whatever insisted on carding strangers when drinking at a bar in public?

2) Group goes to hotel. Again, there's no indication that Vurdugo knew someone else was assaulting this girl. How many of you at age whatever patrolled house parties to make sure nothing untoward was happening anywhere at any time? In fact, per the article, the sexual assault stopped when others, including Vurdugo, returned.

3) Per the article there was a fight between the women. How many of you at age whatever played the hero an intervened in fights between people whom (in all likelihood) you just met earlier that day. There's no indication anyone's life was in danger, or specifics about the length and details of the assault.

So yeah, he was near some stupid (and criminal) shit that happened in 2014-2015.

If he's found to be more culpable than the article is suggesting, then yes, it's a concern.

Otherwise, I'm not really sure what the hand-wringing is about.
Thank you. My sentiments exactly, expressed better than I ever could. More of this and less of comparing him to a child molester.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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I might be more willing to buy that this was some sort of wrong-place, wrong-time immature youth thing if he was otherwise a model upstanding citizen, but he just seems like a dickhead all around (missing practice, being dogged by questions of effort/maturity, etc.). So I'm not exactly willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

At absolute minimum, if the above is true in terms of lack of culpability, he needs to immediately come out and (a) explain exactly what happened on that night and his part in it and (b) make clear that he'll never put himself in that position again. If he instead just gives some version of "I don't want to talk about the past" then he's probably a lost cause.

100% agreed that this is Bloom pulling an "Astros-signing-Osuna" move, and that's really troubling.
Yeah, we need to hear from him. At a minimum he was hanging with a guy who assaulted a drunk girl and with “ older women” who seem to get thrills by befriending down and out teenagers and beating the shit out of them. And he has never had to answer for it.

Maybe this is a hot take, but if we’re going to give out benefits of the doubt, I am going to need some convincing.
 

Archer1979

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I really do think Bloom has no idea that this isn't Tampa. He could have gotten away with this back there. In Boston, it's fertile ground for discussion, exposure, and criticism, all of it highly deserved.

Is he gonna sign Luke Heimlich next, as Luhnow wanted to? (Cheap shot but you get the idea).
He'll figure it out when the first "Bloom is Off the Rose" column hits from Shank.

But from all indications, Bloom seems pretty intelligent. I can't see that he wouldn't know what he was getting into with the Boston media with this sort of acquisition. All that said, WEEI must be insane to listen to today.
 

Rovin Romine

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Like he owes all of you something for replacing Mookie?

Jesus.

I bet he wears his pants all funny too.

For whatever it's worth, to the puritanically minded, Kapler said that the players felt remorseful and wanted to apologize (not knowing of any kind of assault.) http://kaplifestyle.com/2019/02/02/my-statement/ Don't know if that includes Vurdugo or not.

***
And, as an aside, I'm not saying there's definitively nothing here. But there really seems to be nothing here, and no further flags of any color that I'm aware of. Poke around if you want; if this guy turns out of have a history of run-ins and close-calls, I'll change my opinion. Right now though, he's like anyone else who didn't live their 20s in a monastery.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Yeah, we need to hear from him. At a minimum he was hanging with a guy who assaulted a drunk girl and with “ older women” who seem to get thrills by befriending down and out teenagers and beating the shit out of them. And he has never had to answer for it.

Maybe this is a hot take, but if we’re going to give out benefits of the doubt, I am going to need some convincing.
Did you see that clip above of him talking about his back? This guy's a complete shithead. Anything he says about this case will be bad and paint him in a bad light.

I hope they Christian Peter him today. I want nothing to do with him.
 
Aug 20, 2017
2,085
Portland
Yeah, we need to hear from him. At a minimum he was hanging with a guy who assaulted a drunk girl and with “ older women” who seem to get thrills by befriending down and out teenagers and beating the shit out of them. And he has never had to answer for it.

Maybe this is a hot take, but if we’re going to give out benefits of the doubt, I am going to need some convincing.
Why did Los Angeles reporters not require this of him? Why did the Dodgers even allow him to play last year given his history and not just cut him? I also want to know why he wears douchey hats.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

Don't know him from Adam
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Mar 14, 2006
9,419
Kernersville, NC
I want to give Verdugo the benefit of the doubt, but it needs to be addressed immediately by the Red Sox. They can't run from this or try to bury it. I really hope they do the right thing here, whatever that ends up being.
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
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Jul 15, 2005
40,371
Pioneer Valley
Well, it's concerning, but really people need to slow their hot-take roll on this one, and bone up on reading skills.

1) He was with a group in public - the group included a 17 year old. There's no indication Vurdugo knew her age or invited her, or bought her drinks, and short of that, this is nothing. How many of you at age whatever insisted on carding strangers when drinking at a bar in public?

2) Group goes to hotel. Again, there's no indication that Vurdugo knew someone else was assaulting this girl. How many of you at age whatever patrolled house parties to make sure nothing untoward was happening anywhere at any time? In fact, per the article, the sexual assault stopped when others, including Vurdugo, returned.

3) Per the article there was a fight between the women. How many of you at age whatever played the hero an intervened in fights between people whom (in all likelihood) you just met earlier that day. There's no indication anyone's life was in danger, or specifics about the length and details of the assault.

So yeah, he was near some stupid (and criminal) shit that happened in 2014-2015.

If he's found to be more culpable than the article is suggesting, then yes, it's a concern.

Otherwise, I'm not really sure what the hand-wringing is about.
As a woman who declined many times to put myself in this sort of situation, I am inclining towards this point of view. I don't excuse Verdugo, but there seems to be a rush to judgment here in a murky situation. Teenagers on drugs (alcohol is a drug) do some awful things. If Verdugo had done a rape, I would be totally against the acquisition. But I don't see that here.
 

Rovin Romine

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I'm re-reading the article. Which isn't an actual news article, I don't think, but some sort of blog. That's not to say it isn't speaking truthfully; on the contrary, I have no reason to believe it's wrong. But after re-reading it, nowhere does it mention Verdugo actually doing anything wrong. It was the two women who attacked this girl, and Baldwin who sexually assaulted her. And apparently he stopped when the others (presumably Verdugo included) returned.

So we don't really know what involvement Verdugo had in all this. Maybe he was there when the women were attacking this poor girl. Maybe he let it happen. Maybe he laughed and encouraged it. Maybe he tried to tell them to cut the crap. We don't know. But if we are to believe the story, he had nothing to do with the sexual assault piece of the story, as it happened when he was out of the room and as soon as he returned, it stopped. Or maybe it stopped when Baldwin heard the door start to open. Maybe Verdugo had no clue that was happening. Or maybe they entered, saw what he was doing, and they let it continue for a few minutes before Baldwin stopped.

We really don't know much of anything.

Maybe the Sox interviewed him and came away believing that he didn't really do anything wrong in that situation. I have no idea. What appears to be true is that he was somewhat involved in a horrible situation where a girl was physically and sexually assaulted. That's enough to raise a lot of red flags for me. But I am willing to see if there is further information on this because it's *possible* that he actually didn't do anything wrong and wasn't really "involved" in any of the wrong-doing at all. It's certainly possible that he did, but it's possible that he didn't. This is wayyyy less clear (in terms of what Verdugo did or didn't do ) than the Kobe rape case.
I'm addressing this to the board in general. The way civil society works is this.

1) You give people the benefit of the doubt.
2) If you learn something that moves the needle away from that, you make your judgments accordingly.
3) If you have a very strong conviction about your movement, you can advocate publicly for consequences.

I'm pretty disappointed in the board. Yeah, the guy seems like a tool. But it is a far, far jump to say that "maybe" he encouraged a sexual assault because someone nearby was alleged to have sexually assaulted someone. (And keep in mind this is the "groping an unresponsive person" variety of sexual assault. It's not like someone was screaming in the next room and he did nothing).

The idea that many of you want this guy traded ASAP, based on a half-read blog article, pretty much epitomizes the reactive and emotional Boston fan-base.

***
Again, I'm not making any final judgments here. Which is the point. Deal with what's there, not with what you imagine might be.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
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Apr 23, 2010
6,247
from the wilds of western ma
Like he owes all of you something for replacing Mookie?

Jesus.

I bet he wears his pants all funny too.

For whatever it's worth, to the puritanically minded, Kapler said that the players felt remorseful and wanted to apologize (not knowing of any kind of assault.) http://kaplifestyle.com/2019/02/02/my-statement/ Don't know if that includes Vurdugo or not.

***
And, as an aside, I'm not saying there's definitively nothing here. But there really seems to be nothing here, and no further flags of any color that I'm aware of. Poke around if you want; if this guy turns out of have a history of run-ins and close-calls, I'll change my opinion. Right now though, he's like anyone else who didn't live their 20s in a monastery.
Thank god you're here to slow everybody's hot take roll.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,369
I'm addressing this to the board in general. The way civil society works is this.

1) You give people the benefit of the doubt.
2) If you learn something that moves the needle away from that, you make your judgments accordingly.
3) If you have a very strong conviction about your movement, you can advocate publicly for consequences.

I'm pretty disappointed in the board. Yeah, the guy seems like a tool. But it is a far, far jump to say that "maybe" he encouraged a sexual assault because someone nearby was alleged to have sexually assaulted someone. (And keep in mind this is the "groping an unresponsive person" variety of sexual assault. It's not like someone was screaming in the next room and he did nothing).

The idea that many of you want this guy traded ASAP, based on a half-read blog article, pretty much epitomizes the reactive and emotional Boston fan-base.

***
Again, I'm not making any final judgments here. Which is the point. Deal with what's there, not with what you imagine might be.
As the father of a daughter who was raped less than a year ago, I'm extra sensitive to anything along the lines of sexual assault. I'm not going to remotely apologize for that. If he even had a hint that that was happening and didn't do anything to stop it, you can understand why I have a MAJOR problem with that.

BUT...I'm with you in that having re-read the story, I'm withholding judgment on him because the story is really unclear as to what his role (if any) Verdugo had in particular. It's entirely possible he was involved. It's also entirely possible that he had nothing whatsoever to do with the awful things done to that girl.

I need to know more.
 

Teachdad46

New Member
Oct 14, 2011
128
Vermont
People forgave Kobe Bryant and he actually did it. Now the whole world mourns him and any media outlet bringing up Kobe at age 19 gets hit hard for it. One journalist reporter or whatever they call themselves these days lost her job over it. Was Kobe a POS? Did he deserve a second chance? Should he have failed at basketball?
He was 25. She was 19
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,271
AZ
I'm addressing this to the board in general. The way civil society works is this.

1) You give people the benefit of the doubt.
2) If you learn something that moves the needle away from that, you make your judgments accordingly.
3) If you have a very strong conviction about your movement, you can advocate publicly for consequences.

I'm pretty disappointed in the board. Yeah, the guy seems like a tool. But it is a far, far jump to say that "maybe" he encouraged a sexual assault because someone nearby was alleged to have sexually assaulted someone. (And keep in mind this is the "groping an unresponsive person" variety of sexual assault. It's not like someone was screaming in the next room and he did nothing).

The idea that many of you want this guy traded ASAP, based on a half-read blog article, pretty much epitomizes the reactive and emotional Boston fan-base.

***
Again, I'm not making any final judgments here. Which is the point. Deal with what's there, not with what you imagine might be.
If you have to stamp your opinion with the imprimatur of a lecture about “how civil society works,” and declare those with whom you disagree as a “ movement” you stop being at all convincing.

I’m perfectly fine listening to opposing viewpoints and trying to keep an open mind. In fact, I want to find a way to root for this guy, not the opposite, because I love the Sox. So, I have incentive to keep an open mind if possible. But this form of argument? No.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
23,672
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Thank god you're here to slow everybody's hot take roll.
You're welcome to be the rational one.

As the father of a daughter who was raped less than a year ago, I'm extra sensitive to anything along the lines of sexual assault. I'm not going to remotely apologize for that. If he even had a hint that that was happening and didn't do anything to stop it, you can understand why I have a MAJOR problem with that.

BUT...I'm with you in that having re-read the story, I'm withholding judgment on him because the story is really unclear as to what his role (if any) Verdugo had in particular. It's entirely possible he was involved. It's also entirely possible that he had nothing whatsoever to do with the awful things done to that girl.

I need to know more.
I'm really sorry to hear about your daughter.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,369
I'm really sorry to hear about your daughter.
Thanks. It's been....hell. More for her than me, obviously. But as a dad...holy crap it's been awful. Every father would rather take all that pain on himself than have his kid go through it. It sucks. And it sucks.