2020 TB12: The Decision 2020

How Would You Feel if Brady Left?

  • Completely devastated

    Votes: 24 13.0%
  • Very disappointed but still got BB

    Votes: 84 45.4%
  • Hold my beer until we know our next QB

    Votes: 29 15.7%
  • Eh, this may turn out to be a plus

    Votes: 32 17.3%
  • Let the Stidham era begin!

    Votes: 16 8.6%

  • Total voters
    185
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tims4wins

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I think it's his way of saying, "I'm not asking for $30 million a year. I'm asking for a better team around me." I think he understands the cap situation quite well and knows that every dollar he takes is a dollar they can't spend on other talent. He's in it to win it, not to take home the most money.

I expect a 2-year contract at around $23-25 million a year, with the rest of the money going to upgrade key offensive positions.
How much better of an overall team can they put around him though? As was pointed out, injuries happened. And they went 12-4, should have beaten Miami and been 13-3 and the 2 seed.
 

NomarsFool

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I expect a 2-year contract at around $23-25 million a year, with the rest of the money going to upgrade key offensive positions.
But that's what they paid him last season. If he comes back at the same number, there isn't much available for upgrades. If he wants improvement, he's going to need to come back at a lower number. Thuney is gone unless they pay to keep him. Wynn is back for the whole year, thankfully. Andrews is back (hopefully). So, those two things help, but they need to either re-sign Thuney or find someone else who can do as good a job (which isn't cheap). Then, they probably do need to find at least one capable WR and one capable TE (they realy didn't have either last season). Then hope Sanu and Harry play better (reasonable hope).
 

BaseballJones

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But that's what they paid him last season. If he comes back at the same number, there isn't much available for upgrades. If he wants improvement, he's going to need to come back at a lower number. Thuney is gone unless they pay to keep him. Wynn is back for the whole year, thankfully. Andrews is back (hopefully). So, those two things help, but they need to either re-sign Thuney or find someone else who can do as good a job (which isn't cheap). Then, they probably do need to find at least one capable WR and one capable TE (they realy didn't have either last season). Then hope Sanu and Harry play better (reasonable hope).
I guess they're screwed then.
 

BaseballJones

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How much better of an overall team can they put around him though? As was pointed out, injuries happened. And they went 12-4, should have beaten Miami and been 13-3 and the 2 seed.
They can quite possibly field a much better team. The defense should be excellent again. The OL could be greatly improved simply with the return of Andrews. The WR corps probably will look similar but I don't think it was that bad. I think that guys like Harry and Meyers will only get better. It might help if Tom shows up for OTAs though.

TE is really the spot where they can improve dramatically, and probably for not that much money. They paid basically nothing for the TE position and it showed. Even modest improvements can probably make enormous differences in the on-field product. That's where I expect them to make the most improvements.
 

E5 Yaz

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The defense should be excellent again.
Devin McCourty, Kyle Van Noy, Jamie Collins and Danny Shelton (in descending order of importance) are all free agents. The first two, primarily, could draw prohibitive offers. Patrick Chung's lack of speed and agility became evident as the season wore on. Lawrence Guy is the only truly reliable guy in the middle of the line. The linebacking corps, especially if Van Noy leaves, is thin (Winovich) hasn't shown yet to be the type of player you can use in coverage, as you can with KVN.

They won't be horrible, by any means, but throwing out a blanket statement like "should be excellent again" isn't something that can be assumed.

The OL could be greatly improved simply with the return of Andrews.
Even if he does return and is back to who he was, you're still looking at the probable loss of Thuney, and the retirement of Scar.

I think that guys like Harry and Meyers will only get better.
Again, there's no basis for this belief. They could get worse. They might be no better than they showed this year. After 2018, the general assessment was that Philip Dorsett was on the verge of breaking out. He couldn't even replace Chris Hogan's effectiveness.

Everything could go exactly as you say. Or none of it could happen.
 

BaseballJones

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Devin McCourty, Kyle Van Noy, Jamie Collins and Danny Shelton (in descending order of importance) are all free agents. The first two, primarily, could draw prohibitive offers. Patrick Chung's lack of speed and agility became evident as the season wore on. Lawrence Guy is the only truly reliable guy in the middle of the line. The linebacking corps, especially if Van Noy leaves, is thin (Winovich) hasn't shown yet to be the type of player you can use in coverage, as you can with KVN.

They won't be horrible, by any means, but throwing out a blanket statement like "should be excellent again" isn't something that can be assumed.



Even if he does return and is back to who he was, you're still looking at the probable loss of Thuney, and the retirement of Scar.



Again, there's no basis for this belief. They could get worse. They might be no better than they showed this year. After 2018, the general assessment was that Philip Dorsett was on the verge of breaking out. He couldn't even replace Chris Hogan's effectiveness.

Everything could go exactly as you say. Or none of it could happen.
Of course, that's pretty true for anything else anyone else has thought possible. In 2008 we all were 100% confident that Brady was going to light it up and he got hurt in the first quarter and missed the season. Who knew that Welker was going to tear his ACL right before the playoffs. Also...who knew that Malcolm Butler would emerge to be a star and make the biggest play in SB history? Who expected Sony Michel to rip through defenses during the 2018 playoff run?

I mean, you're 100% right. Everything I suggest could happen. Or none of it could. Or anything in-between. I can't find fault with your statement there.
 

E5 Yaz

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Of course, that's pretty true for anything else anyone else has thought possible. In 2008 we all were 100% confident that Brady was going to light it up and he got hurt in the first quarter and missed the season. Who knew that Welker was going to tear his ACL right before the playoffs. Also...who knew that Malcolm Butler would emerge to be a star and make the biggest play in SB history? Who expected Sony Michel to rip through defenses during the 2018 playoff run?

I mean, you're 100% right. Everything I suggest could happen. Or none of it could. Or anything in-between. I can't find fault with your statement there.
That's not really the point, though. I'm not talking about unexpected things during a season.

What I'm saying is that you can make blanket statements that the defense should be excellent again, considering the losses it faces; that the offensive line should be better, with thunk and Scar leaving; or that two rookie receivers have to be better next year.

You're making such statements as though they are facts.

Just take one of them: Even if we grant that Andrews will come back and be close to his peak, why should that make better an OL w/o Thuney and under a new coach?
 

nattysez

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Negotiations will begin "in a couple of weeks." I interpret that as during or immediately after the NFL Combine which starts about February 26 and concludes March 1.

By that time, Brady should have back-channeled his way to an understanding of what’s out there. Last week, I wondered whether it was advantageous for the Patriots if teams did make their pitches to Brady before "legal tampering" begins on March 16.

My understanding is that the Patriots aren’t worried about other team’s financial pitches. Their business with Brady revolves around the direction of the 2020 offensive personnel, Brady getting some input on that and Brady’s role in the team’s future. They aren’t going to be super-vigilant about tampering.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/where-things-stand-between-tom-brady-and-patriots-free-agency-looms?amp&__twitter_impression=true
 

BaseballJones

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That's not really the point, though. I'm not talking about unexpected things during a season.

What I'm saying is that you can make blanket statements that the defense should be excellent again, considering the losses it faces; that the offensive line should be better, with thunk and Scar leaving; or that two rookie receivers have to be better next year.

You're making such statements as though they are facts.

Just take one of them: Even if we grant that Andrews will come back and be close to his peak, why should that make better an OL w/o Thuney and under a new coach?
To the bolded statement of yours, I will actually quote myself several times and comment on them:

"They can quite possibly field a much better team." - "Quite possibly" is not a statement of fact. It's a statement of....possibility.

"The defense should be excellent again." - "Should" is also not a statement of fact. It's a statement of possibility that I happen to think has a high probability of occurring. First, I didn't say elite...I said excellent. They were elite last year, and so even if they dropped off, they could still be excellent. Second, they had quality players who didn't play a ton because of the tremendous depth in front of them. So losing key players doesn't necessarily mean they'll drop off as a total defense. I think there's tons to work with still, even if they lose a few starters.

"The OL could be greatly improved simply with the return of Andrews." - "could be" is not a statement of fact either. It's a statement of possibility. And I gave a reason why. Andrews is more important to the OL than Thuney is, for a number of reasons. If I had to choose between Andrews at C and Karras at LG or Karras at C and Thuney at LG, I'd take Andrews/Karras over Karras/Thuney every time.

"The WR corps probably will look similar but I don't think it was that bad. I think that guys like Harry and Meyers will only get better. It might help if Tom shows up for OTAs though." - "probably" is not a statement of fact. It's a statement of possibility, though one with a higher degree of confidence. And I think that the young guys improving is likely given that generally, if players have ability, barring injury, they improve as they get older and move towards their primes. Also, I mentioned that Brady showing up for OTAs would be important, not necessarily for his own personal development, but to help him develop better rapport with these receivers.

So, no, I didn't really make many statements "as though they are facts". I made them as possibilities, with a varying range of probability.
 

streeter88

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BBJ, I think everybody would like the Patriots to invest in a TE and some WR weapons to get faster at WR. However, I think your evaluation of the WR corps(e) is fairly at odds with the rest of the posters on this thread.

I agree with E5 Yaz though that the defense has some very real downturn risk with free agency, and it’s nowhere near guaranteed that the OL will be better next year even if Andrews does manage to return.

Maybe we can look forward to the running game beIng better with the return of Develin.

And I really hope they draft well and some of the 2019 class pans out better this year.

Will be a very interesting 2 months.
 
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BaseballJones

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BBJ, I think everybody would like the Patriots to invest in a TE and some WR weapons to get faster at WR. However, I think your evaluation of the WR corps(e) is fairly at odds with the rest of the posters on this thread.

I agree with E5 Yaz though that the defense has some very real downturn risk with free agency, and it’s nowhere near guaranteed that the OL will be better next year even if Andrews does manage to return.

Maybe we can look forward to the running game beIng better with the return of Develin.

And I really hope they draft well and some of the 2019 class pans out better this year.

Will be a very interesting 2 months.
Well BB thought enough of Harry to use a first round pick on him. He doesn’t have a sterling track record drafting WRs but I have to believe he sees something that makes him think he’s going to be a quality WR. Edelman is obviously still really good. Sanu has been a good WR his whole career. Not a stud, but solid. Both in Cincy and Atlanta. No reason he shouldn’t be solid here too. They have good receiving RBs in White and Burkhead (though Burkhead could be a cut). I think they need to add another WR and definitely a TE or two.
 

Harry Hooper

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The very attractive New Orleans is off the board as a landing spot for Brady. Can he get the Bears to dance?
 

j-man

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thank goodness drew lock went 4-1 or Denver wouild be in the mix

bur if I was Elway I wouild still make a offer anyway if only to slow down KC mo and it wouild be 2y 55 mil with a 35 million opinion for 2022 and while I don't want AB or gronk to get brady I wouild bring them in rem Denver has 65 million in cap space a young superstar WR in sutton a top 10 TE in fant 5 top 100 picks in the 2020 draft a top 10 defense other than @KC @NE with brady Denver wouild be a lock for 11 or 12 wins the only worry in Denver needs 3 OL'S that wouild the only holdup

but lucky for u and me drew lock went 4-1 so is a non issue
 

streeter88

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Well BB thought enough of Harry to use a first round pick on him. He doesn’t have a sterling track record drafting WRs but I have to believe he sees something that makes him think he’s going to be a quality WR. Edelman is obviously still really good. Sanu has been a good WR his whole career. Not a stud, but solid. Both in Cincy and Atlanta. No reason he shouldn’t be solid here too. They have good receiving RBs in White and Burkhead (though Burkhead could be a cut). I think they need to add another WR and definitely a TE or two.
So let’s go back to your original contention which was that the wide receiver corps was not as terrible as everyone else thought it was this past year. Objectively it actually was terrible - after Edelman no WR had more than 27 catches.

Edelman was double teamed the entire year and injured for half of the year. It’s a miracle he had the number of catches and yards he did. And you’re right he is very good still, but he certainly is aging and it’s unclear how he will return from injury.

Harry may well be good in time, but he was on IR and only played five games this year. And in those five games he was really only used sparingly.

Gordon was traded very early and frankly didn’t look as good as he did last year. AB blew up and was no help whatsoever - in fact a $9M cap drain.

Sanu was terrible. Dropped catches, missed routes and blocks, generally seemed a shadow of himself particularly after the injury. Unclear how he will return in 2020.

Jakobi Myers was OK, but again used pretty sparingly, and had a few high profile drops and missed routes.

Viewed all together, I don’t think anyone objectively would call that a good wide receiver corps. Whether that changes in 2020 is really a crapshoot at this point.

What I’m saying is I hope they bring in a veteran wide receiver that’s better than Sanu and I also really hope they draft well and find a burner.

Because if you factor in the decline in the defense that everyone is predicting plus the tougher schedule next year due to playing the NFC West versus NFC East in 2019, I think it’s going to be pretty tough sledding to match 2019’s 12-4.

Edit: what does it say about Dorsett that I completely forgot him and his 29 catches for a paltry 397 yards and five TDs? Edelman had 6 TDs, and after that it’s pretty slim for the WRs (Harry 2 and no one else more than 1).
 
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Harry Hooper

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I am a Curran fan, but a few months back he was going on and on about Brady will be making visits to teams as a FA. Now his latest says Brady will have the teams come to him and pitch.
 

BaseballJones

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So let’s go back to your original contention which was that the wide receiver corps was not as terrible as everyone else thought it was this past year. Objectively it actually was terrible - after Edelman no WR had more than 27 catches.

Edelman was double teamed the entire year and injured for half of the year. It’s a miracle he had the number of catches and yards he did. And you’re right he is very good still, but he certainly is aging and it’s unclear how he will return from injury.

Harry may well be good in time, but he was on IR and only played five games this year. And in those five games he was really only used sparingly.

Gordon was traded very early and frankly didn’t look as good as he did last year. AB blew up and was no help whatsoever - in fact a $9M cap drain.

Sanu was terrible. Dropped catches, missed routes and blocks, generally seemed a shadow of himself particularly after the injury. Unclear how he will return in 2020.

Jakobi Myers was OK, but again used pretty sparingly, and had a few high profile drops and missed routes.

Viewed all together, I don’t think anyone objectively would call that a good wide receiver corps. Whether that changes in 2020 is really a crapshoot at this point.

What I’m saying is I hope they bring in a veteran wide receiver that’s better than Sanu and I also really hope they draft well and find a burner.

Because if you factor in the decline in the defense that everyone is predicting plus the tougher schedule next year due to playing the NFC West versus NFC East in 2019, I think it’s going to be pretty tough sledding to match 2019’s 12-4.

Edit: what does it say about Dorsett that I completely forgot him and his 29 catches for a paltry 397 yards and five TDs? Edelman had 6 TDs, and after that it’s pretty slim for the WRs (Harry 2 and no one else more than 1).
Despite being injured, Edelman had 100 rec, 1117 yds, and 6 td. Dude is still *great*.

Playing only 5 games, Harry had just 12 rec for 105 yds, but he really had 3 td (obviously you recall that he literally had one stolen from him in the KC game after he made a phenomenal play to get in the end zone). Project that production over 15 games (allowing for one injury game) and it's 36 rec, 315 yds, 9 td. Which wouldn't be bad at all for a rookie.

Sanu has been a solid, solid receiver his entire career, both with the Falcons and Bengals. Never the #1 option, but always a solid receiver. He came to NE and promptly, in his first two games, had 12 receptions. He was being...Sanu. Then he got hurt and fought to play through it the entire rest of the year and obviously wasn't the same player. Given his long track record of success in the NFL in two different systems with two different QBs, I think it's a good bet that he will be a solid receiver again next year as long as he's healthy.

I too left off Dorsett because he was bad and I would expect him to not be back next year.

I don't think it's a great or even necessarily a good WR corps. I just don't think it's as bad as others think it is. I definitely see them investing offseason capital on the position. That and TE and probably OL the most.
 

Super Nomario

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Playing only 5 games, Harry had just 12 rec for 105 yds, but he really had 3 td (obviously you recall that he literally had one stolen from him in the KC game after he made a phenomenal play to get in the end zone). Project that production over 15 games (allowing for one injury game) and it's 36 rec, 315 yds, 9 td. Which wouldn't be bad at all for a rookie.
Harry played in eight games, counting the playoff game, and totalled 14 catches for 126 yards and 2 (ok, 3) TDs. He caught fewer than 50% of the passes his way and didn't have a 20-yard reception on the season. The more he played, the worse he got; he had five catches on 14(!) targets for only 50 yards in the final two agonizing losses and was probably the worst offensive player in both. There's some reason for optimism given he was a first-round pick, but let's not sugar-coat it: he was awful in 2019.

Sanu has been a solid, solid receiver his entire career, both with the Falcons and Bengals. Never the #1 option, but always a solid receiver. He came to NE and promptly, in his first two games, had 12 receptions. He was being...Sanu. Then he got hurt and fought to play through it the entire rest of the year and obviously wasn't the same player. Given his long track record of success in the NFL in two different systems with two different QBs, I think it's a good bet that he will be a solid receiver again next year as long as he's healthy.
I mostly agree with this, but he was also awful last year (likely affected by injury, as you note). As he's one of the easiest route to cost-savings, he's hardly a lock to be on the team in 2020.
 

bakahump

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I wonder if the Brady Saga will end up hurting the Pats in more ways then 1.

Lets say "Diggs" is available. If the Pats go after him (and pay a steep price) in hopes of luring Brady back but he decides to leave then "Diggs" is probably wasted resources.
If they decide to wait on Bradys decision, it 1. Makes Brady consider why he should come back to the same team. 2. It lessons the number of "Diggs" available, potentially missing out on someone who could help the team (and by extension Brady).

Its a Catch 22. I think you have to wait and build (or Not Build) around Brady As best you can. Sinking resources into "Diggs" when Stidham may well be the guy pulling the trigger seems suboptimal.

(And yes Substitute Diggs for any Offensive resource TE/WR/OL)
 

E5 Yaz

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I wonder if the Brady Saga will end up hurting the Pats in more ways then 1.

Lets say "Diggs" is available. If the Pats go after him (and pay a steep price) in hopes of luring Brady back but he decides to leave then "Diggs" is probably wasted resources.
If they decide to wait on Bradys decision, it 1. Makes Brady consider why he should come back to the same team. 2. It lessons the number of "Diggs" available, potentially missing out on someone who could help the team (and by extension Brady).

Its a Catch 22. I think you have to wait and build (or Not Build) around Brady As best you can. Sinking resources into "Diggs" when Stidham may well be the guy pulling the trigger seems suboptimal.

(And yes Substitute Diggs for any Offensive resource TE/WR/OL)
They need resources whether Brady is the QB or not. It can be argued that they need more resources across the board if Brady doesn't come back
 

BaseballJones

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Harry played in eight games, counting the playoff game, and totalled 14 catches for 126 yards and 2 (ok, 3) TDs. He caught fewer than 50% of the passes his way and didn't have a 20-yard reception on the season. The more he played, the worse he got; he had five catches on 14(!) targets for only 50 yards in the final two agonizing losses and was probably the worst offensive player in both. There's some reason for optimism given he was a first-round pick, but let's not sugar-coat it: he was awful in 2019.


I mostly agree with this, but he was also awful last year (likely affected by injury, as you note). As he's one of the easiest route to cost-savings, he's hardly a lock to be on the team in 2020.
Harry's year was a bit of a disappointment, but given his injuries, I'm content to give him a pass. He flashed potential to me.

Sanu...no he wasn't awful last year in Atlanta or at the start of his time with NE. Some context....

- In Sanu's first 7 seasons (with Cin and Atl), he averaged 49 receptions on 74 targets (66.2%), for 11.6 ypc, and 3.4 td a year in 14.7 games played.

- On a per-game basis, he averaged 5.06 targets, 3.31 receptions, 38.68 yards, and 0.25 td.

- In Sanu's first 7 games of last year (with Atl), he had 33 receptions on 42 targets (78.6%), for 9.5 ypc, and 1 td. Projected out to 14.7 games, that comes to 69 receptions on 88 targets.

- On a per-game basis, he averaged 6.00 targets, 4.71 receptions, 44.71 yards, and 0.14 td.

So the first 7 games of the year last year, many of Sanu's numbers were *better* than his career norms. He was always a solid receiver. But over the first half of last year he was playing even better.

And his first two games with the Pats he averaged 9.50 targets, 6.00 receptions (63.1%), 52.00 yards, and 0.50 td.

And then he got hurt. So before the injury last year, he was playing WELL.

Dude is good. Get him health, get him an offseason with Brady, and he'll be fine.
 

Super Nomario

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Harry's year was a bit of a disappointment, but given his injuries, I'm content to give him a pass. He flashed potential to me.
Injuries, plural? It was just the one, right? And it was a week-to-week thing where he'd already returned to practice before they decided to IR him. Which tells me maybe they already realized he was going to be pretty much useless in 2019. Of course, then I don't understand why they IR'd Josh Gordon ... but nothing they did last year at WR/TE really made much sense.

Sanu...no he wasn't awful last year in Atlanta or at the start of his time with NE. Some context....
To clarify, I meant he was awful with the Patriots (as you note, particularly after injury). I generally agree with your assessment. I'm still not sure he makes the team given their other needs and the potential savings, though I imagine he'd have trade value.

(Dude, you gotta stop putting numbers out to two decimal points when you're taking averages from two games. It's ridiculous)
 

BaseballJones

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Injuries, plural? It was just the one, right? And it was a week-to-week thing where he'd already returned to practice before they decided to IR him. Which tells me maybe they already realized he was going to be pretty much useless in 2019. Of course, then I don't understand why they IR'd Josh Gordon ... but nothing they did last year at WR/TE really made much sense.
Injury singular I guess.

To clarify, I meant he was awful with the Patriots (as you note, particularly after injury). I generally agree with your assessment. I'm still not sure he makes the team given their other needs and the potential savings, though I imagine he'd have trade value.
Yeah he might be moved or cut. I dunno. But replacing him won't be easy. They're short on good WRs as it is.

(Dude, you gotta stop putting numbers out to two decimal points when you're taking averages from two games. It's ridiculous)
Fair point, but not something to get worked up over.
 

Harry Hooper

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I am pretty sure Harry had 2 injuries. There was one {strained quad maybe?} early in camp and then the apparent high-ankle sprain suffered in the preseason game.

Here's a brief on Harry's rookie season from Evan Lazar

If Harry can develop his releases, he’ll be able to transition from an outside release to an inside release to keep defensive backs honest.

Denver’s Courtland Sutton, who has a similar athletic profile and struggled with route running early on in his career, is also a great study for Harry.

Sutton was 142nd out of 143 qualified receivers in separation on all of his routes, only ahead of Harry, but he had 1,112 yards and six touchdowns this past season for the Broncos.

By improving his releases, Sutton made it easier on himself to “stack” the defensive back downfield, which means he’s getting over the top of his man. Even if he can’t run away from the defender, with the DB on his back, Sutton can make the necessary adjustments to the ball to make contested grabs.
 

Shaky Walton

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Yes, Ben Volin is not the most reliable source, but his article in today's Globe about the Bucs emerging as a possible landing spot for Brady makes some sense. Good WRs, good TE, plenty of available cap room, an existing QB with some serious warts....all factors that make it seem viable. The division is also weaker than the AFC West.
 

DJnVa

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Isn’t the Bucs passing offense built more around down the field throws? That’s not necessarily playing to Brady’s strengths.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Yes, Ben Volin is not the most reliable source, but his article in today's Globe about the Bucs emerging as a possible landing spot for Brady makes some sense. Good WRs, good TE, plenty of available cap room, an existing QB with some serious warts....all factors that make it seem viable. The division is also weaker than the AFC West.
They don't have an existing QB, Winston is a FA.
 

Shaky Walton

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Isn’t the Bucs passing offense built more around down the field throws? That’s not necessarily playing to Brady’s strengths.
Yes, true. Volin noted that and answered it with a bit of a non-sequitur.

The one issue would be scheme fit. Arians’s offense is full of seven-step drops and deep shots down the field, which has never been Brady’s forte.

But Brady definitely fits Arians’s ideal quarterback mold in one sense — he doesn’t throw interceptions.
I think the better answer -- not that I like this answer -- is that the Bucs would most likely adopt their offense somewhat to play to their QB's strengths.

And @Papelbon's Poutine, duly noted about Winston.

Volin also noted the pressence of Jason Licht, Tampa's GM and a former Patriots staffer. Not that this is fresh news, but it's just one more factor.
 

DJnVa

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I'm glad we have Ben Volin to let us know that an NFL head coach's ideal QB "doesn't throw interceptions".
 

joe dokes

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Yes, true. Volin noted that and answered it with a bit of a non-sequitur.



I think the better answer -- not that I like this answer -- is that the Bucs would most likely adopt their offense somewhat to play to their QB's strengths.
So basically, the 117-year old head coach would change what he has been doing for the last 50 years or so.
I think it's more likely that TB hires a new coach than Arians changes his entire offensive approach.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Isn’t the Bucs passing offense built more around down the field throws? That’s not necessarily playing to Brady’s strengths.
It seems like the pieces they need are a lot easier to find than the pieces they have though. Amendola just signed for about $5 million for one year and pass catching backs seem to be available all the time. Could you imagine adding an Amendola like player and Brady on a team with Goodwin and Evans? Unless the line absolutely sucked, Brady would be a video game. Tack on a guy like Theo Riddick or take a chance on Chris Thompson staying healthy and Brady has everything he needs for an extra, what, $7 or $8 million total?

Edit: Godwin not Goodwin.
 

Shaky Walton

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So basically, the 117-year old head coach would change what he has been doing for the last 50 years or so.
I think it's more likely that TB hires a new coach than Arians changes his entire offensive approach.
Well, yeah. Not that I think Arians would totally junk his approach but with the chance to add Brady to his existing weapons and whoever else he might add (as @DennyDoyle'sBoil mentioned), modifying the offense seems manageable to me. It's not like Arians would be making changes to best capture Scott Zolak's strengths as QB. But the chance to mix in a talent such as Tom Brady to that mix should be enough to make Arians adjust. It's not as if Arians hasn't seen what Brady's strengths and weaknesses are, and doesn't know exactly what he would be getting. If he wants and gets him, I would expect him to adjust, and also ask Tom to adjust somewhat, as well.

Unless he's completely stubborn and foolish, which he doesn't appear to be.
 

joe dokes

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Well, yeah. Not that I think Arians would totally junk his approach but with the chance to add Brady to his existing weapons and whoever else he might add (as @DennyDoyle'sBoil mentioned), modifying the offense seems manageable to me. It's not like Arians would be making changes to best capture Scott Zolak's strengths as QB. But the chance to mix in a talent such as Tom Brady to that mix should be enough to make Arians adjust. It's not as if Arians hasn't seen what Brady's strengths and weaknesses are, and doesn't know exactly what he would be getting. If he wants and gets him, I would expect him to adjust, and also ask Tom to adjust somewhat, as well.

Unless he's completely stubborn and foolish, which he doesn't appear to be.
It would be an interesting experiment for both. But it would still be an experiment and I am skeptical that Brady wants to expermient at this stage of his career. That said, nobody on the outside can really know what motivates him (or Arians).
 

sodenj5

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I would still be surprised if the odds were greater than 50-50 that he leaves New England.

There’s a full thread of speculation, but I would imagine it has to be one of the West Coast teams if he decided to leave. LAC or LVR. Tennessee seems to be happy with Tannehill.

I just imagine that his love for Kraft and finishing his legacy with one team wins out eventually over a new opportunity and potentially more money.
 

jsinger121

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From Karen Guregian

The Patriots still have not reached out to Tom Brady. According to a source, “it’s not looking good”
 

Traut

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I still don't buy it. I guess I am setting myself up to be stunned but so be it.
In many ways it makes sense. This thread is full of scenarios showing how unlikely it is that the Pats will be able to: 1. pay Brady and 2. restock the team.

If he leaves, it's likely because Belichick sees something in Stidham. Plus we know for sure that Brady will not be under center in 3 years in New England.

The sourcing on "very close" to Brady is potentially telling. We know Brady keeps a very tight inner circle. "Very close" is likely Edelman, Guerrero, Yee, or Giselle.
 

jsinger121

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Belichick has always been about getting rid of a guy a year too early rather than a year too late. Even though this is Brady I can see BB doing this.
 

Traut

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Belichick has always been about getting rid of a guy a year too early rather than a year too late. Even though this is Brady I can see BB doing this.
Other than Brady the one constant under BB has been exactly this. If he is driving the car (which is the thing we don't know) - this is the most likely outcome.
 

Shaky Walton

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I still don't buy it. I guess I am setting myself up to be stunned but so be it.
Sadly, I'm expecting Tom to leave, and Darlington's comments this morning are not why.

I can buy that he's in need of a change of scenery. Playing for Belichick has to be difficult, even with all the winning, and Tom's demeanor last season spoke volumes to me. He seemed to be really angry at the lack of skill around him.

I also think that if the Pats and Tom were going to get a deal done, it would have happened already or there would be a lot less noise. I know that Donta tested the market and gave the Pats the chance to match or better what he was offered. And other players have, too. But Tom will inevitably receive offers that will blow away what the Patriots are willing to do. And the wooing itself will be intoxicating.

This, for me, would be a horrible, painful result. But it's one that I'm expecting.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Restructuring Brady's contract last year made little sense, other than it allows Brady to leave without forcing BB to formally sever ties with him. This is BB's decision and if he wanted Brady back he probably would be. It is going to be a painful day for all NEP fans if Brady leaves, but BB is usually correct on these types of things.
 

Traut

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Sadly, I'm expecting Tom to leave, and Darlington's comments this morning are not why.

I can buy that he's in need of a change of scenery. Playing for Belichick has to be difficult, even with all the winning, and Tom's demeanor last season spoke volumes to me. He seemed to be really angry at the lack of skill around him.

I also think that if the Pats and Tom were going to get a deal done, it would have happened already or there would be a lot less noise. I know that Donta tested the market and gave the Pats the chance to match or better what he was offered. And other players have, too. But Tom will inevitably receive offers that will blow away what the Patriots are willing to do. And the wooing itself will be intoxicating.

This, for me, would be a horrible, painful result. But it's one that I'm expecting.
Taking all that Brady has meant to the Patriots out of it - the crazy thing to do here would be to throw 60 million over 2 years at a 43 year old QB. The simplest answer is it likely makes the most sense for each of them to part ways.
 

tims4wins

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I disagree with the idea that if he was coming back it would be “done already “ due to the pending new CBA. If the CBA does get passed it becomes easier to negotiate. We shall see.
 
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