Workman & Hembree to Phillies for Nick PIvetta and Connor Seabold

Average Game James

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So their #7 prospect and a 27 year old with a career 77 ERA+? Seems light, unless the Philly system is deeper than I give it credit for... On the plus side, Pivetta should fit in just great with the current staff...
 

brandonchristensen

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Brandon Workman had a long and storied career with us. Always liked him. Glad he was here for two.

Hembree was a pitcher.
 

DeadlySplitter

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OurF'ingCity

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So their #7 prospect and a 27 year old with a career 77 ERA+? Seems light, unless the Philly system is deeper than I give it credit for... On the plus side, Pivetta should fit in just great with the current staff...
For two months of Workman and a year and two months for Hembree? Seems about right to me.
 

Ale Xander

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As a sophomore for Cal-St. Fullerton, Seabold had a 96-9 K-BB ratio. Also later won a CC title on the Yarmouth-Dennis team
 

grimshaw

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I happened to be listening to the Phillies broadcast when they announced it. They sounded happy to "give Pivetta a change of scenery" but thought Seabold had a little bit more of a ceiling than JAG. The Sox could probably throw him right in there with nothing to lose.
 

DanoooME

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Yeah, this seems underwhelming. Seabold isn't even in FGs top 40 prospects, so he's not really a prospect at all. And Pivetta never really developed.

These guys will provide good batting practice for the rest of the AL East though.
 

DeadlySplitter

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So their #7 prospect and a 27 year old with a career 77 ERA+? Seems light, unless the Philly system is deeper than I give it credit for... On the plus side, Pivetta should fit in just great with the current staff...
it's two relievers, the better one with way less control. the return was never going to be outstanding. you just hope Chaim is right on one of these two.
 

DJnVa

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So their #7 prospect and a 27 year old with a career 77 ERA+? Seems light, unless the Philly system is deeper than I give it credit for... On the plus side, Pivetta should fit in just great with the current staff...
It's not really light for what this season is. A decent-ish prospect and a 27 year old with a pretty good arm for 2 bullpen guys.
 

WrenHorn

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Pivetta is a sneaky good acquisiton here by Bloom; he's obviously done in Philadelphia given the rough 2019 and early 2020 struggles, but at this price it seems worth it to see if he can regain his 2018 form, where he fanned 10.32/9 and walked sub 3/9 -- with a 3.80 FIP and a 3.42 XFIP.

There are also things to like from 2019, where he fanned nearly 9 per inning but saw a walk rate spike. Seems like the issue here is the long ball, which doesn't bode super well for Fenway but perhaps Bloom likes him in the pen.

You need to find ways to get some starting potential in here with basically none in the high minors, so I like the speculative gamble here.

--

re: Seabold, stats look alright but pretty soft stuff from the right side. Polished college pitcher who might be a #5 SP or long-reliever. I'd have preferred some of the other similar arms in the Phillies system with better stuff [Francisco Morales stands out], but another guy that should help and soon, and could start. Fangraphs has him with a 40/40 fastball, so he's certainly an atypical type with a lot of soft stuff.
 

oumbi

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For two months of Workman and a year and two months for Hembree? Seems about right to me.
Though he did do well in a short amount of innings.

17 innings, ERA 1.06, WHIP 0.588, 3 BB, 22 K.

Maybe there is hope.
 

E5 Yaz

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So Sox traded 2 relievers, saved $300K and get actual players in return?
Well, they didn't really save $300K, since they're on the hook for whatever the new players make, but it's not awful
 

DJnVa

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Well, they didn't really save $300K, since they're on the hook for whatever the new players make, but it's not awful
Stop with the facts.

Looks like Pivetta makes a little less than $600,000, but that's a full season salary.
 

BaseballJones

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So Sox traded 2 relievers, saved $300K and get actual players in return?
The last part is the question.

Pivetta...simply isn't that good. Some somewhat interesting peripherals, but pretty godawful results his whole MLB career. His BEST season featured a 4.77 era in the NL and an 86 era+.

Seabold is interesting. 24 in AA last year, but solid performance there: 40.0 ip, 2.25 era, 1.13 whip, 8.1 k/9. Definitely has potential as a MLB-level bullpen arm, or maybe even a starter (he was a starter in the minors mainly).
 

DJnVa

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The last part is the question.

Pivetta...simply isn't that good. Some somewhat interesting peripherals, but pretty godawful results his whole MLB career. His BEST season featured a 4.77 era in the NL and an 86 era+.

Seabold is interesting. 24 in AA last year, but solid performance there: 40.0 ip, 2.25 era, 1.13 whip, 8.1 k/9. Definitely has potential as a MLB-level bullpen arm, or maybe even a starter (he was a starter in the minors mainly).
Sure, but Pivetta is younger and cheaper and a team in the midst of a rebuild would rather have a 27 year old that *might* be something than two relievers in their 30s that are FA in 2 months. And his FIP in 2018 was 3.79 which isn't bad.

I'm not saying he's anything special. I'm basically saying that dealing guys like we did, if we ONLY come out ahead in the cash outlay is fine. Might as well see if the Sox coaches can figure something out.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Brandon Workman had a long and storied career with us. Always liked him. Glad he was here for two.

Hembree was a pitcher.
Farrell flubbing the late innings in the WS such that Workman batted in like the 8th inning in a close game was an all-timer.

Hasn’t been the smoothest sailing with injuries but a decent enough career here through it all.
 

section15

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Seabold seems to be a "middlin'" prospect. Pivetta? Uh... all they can hope is that a change of venue will suit him well. Not much pressure here now, anyway, and the Phils want to get a post-season berth... so it's good for them.

Hembree has another year to go; Workman becomes a free agent and will no doubt get a substantial increase from someone ; it's just that it would have been nice to be able to extend him as he was the only decent bullpen piece the Sox had this year. After all he's been through, the last two years he's been reliable... I'd love to see him come back but doubtful that will happen. If anyone had grit and determination it was Brandon Workman.
 

A Bad Man

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Here's a writeup from philliesminorthoughts.com on Seabold:

Role: #4 Starter

Risk: Medium – Seabold is almost major league ready, he just needs some more polishing. He has enough fastball velocity to not be as risky as some of the Phillies back end arms, but he will need to rely on his secondary pitches and command to have major league success.

Summary: Late in the 2018 season, the Phillies pitching coach staff in Reading cleaned up Connor Seabold’s delivery, and the right hander looked poised to contribute in 2019. This year did not go to plan, however. Seabold missed a couple of months to an oblique injury, and then was limited for another month as he had to have Spring Training over the summer. Much like Spencer Howard, the Phillies sent Seabold to the AFL to build up innings, but he ended the year woefully short. On the mound, Seabold now sits 90-94 with his fastball and can reach back for 95. His breaking ball and changeup are solid pitches, but neither currently projects as plus. With his simplified delivery, Seabold’s plus control comes through more, and he shows the ability to use all of his pitches throughout the strike zone. His lack of a dominant pitch limits him to a backend starter ceiling, but he could be a solid innings eating #4 as soon as 2021, and a major league contributor in some role in 2020 as he rebuilds his innings load.

2020 Outlook: Given the log jam in front of him and his limited innings in 2019, the Phillies are likely to send Seabold back to Reading to open the 2020 season. He likely will be in AAA early in the season, and whether he reaches the majors will likely depend on team need.

ETA: 2021
 

DJnVa

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nvalvo

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This seems like a good return to me.

Hembree is nothing special, and our remaining control of Workman is measured in weeks in a season when there might not be a postseason. Who knows who the PTBNL is.

Pivetta has good stuff. High spin, good velocity fastball, good curve and change. The question is why the results have been so much worse than the underlying pitches, and whether the Sox can find him a way to use his repertoire that works a bit better. Lots of risk there, obviously, but we have an opportunity this season to try some things.

Seabold (or Seafood as my phone would have it) has the track record of a competent starting pitcher in the high minors who has a chance to start in the big leagues. We need some of those.
 

Harry Hooper

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Hopefully the cash in the deal stepped up the quality of the PTBNL.
 

Max Power

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Pivetta has good stuff. High spin, good velocity fastball, good curve and change. The question is why the results have been so much worse than the underlying pitches, and whether the Sox can find him a way to use his repertoire that works a bit better. Lots of risk there, obviously, but we have an opportunity this season to try some things.
When they figure that out, maybe he can share the info with Eovaldi.
 

BaseballJones

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Sure, but Pivetta is younger and cheaper and a team in the midst of a rebuild would rather have a 27 year old that *might* be something than two relievers in their 30s that are FA in 2 months. And his FIP in 2018 was 3.79 which isn't bad.

I'm not saying he's anything special. I'm basically saying that dealing guys like we did, if we ONLY come out ahead in the cash outlay is fine. Might as well see if the Sox coaches can figure something out.
Yep. I’m fine with the deal. I just think it’s a fairly low probability that either of the guys they acquired ends up being even close to as good as either guy they gave up.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Seabold (or Seafood as my phone would have it) has the track record of a competent starting pitcher in the high minors who has a chance to start in the big leagues. We need some of those.
Yep. Even is Seabold ends up just as another Brian Johnson type, that’s not the worst return for two relievers who had zero future on this team.
 

Manramsclan

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Can you guys link the PBTNL report? I've only seen cash considerations in multiple places and still haven't seen a PBNTL listed as part of the trade.
 

chawson

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Fantastic trade. Something’s been off, but Pivetta’s expected production in 2018 was just a hair away from guys like Clevinger, Paxton, Morton and Carrasco, and we get three more years to fix him for a perennial non-tender candidate and six weeks of Workman in a fake season.

It looks like the Phillies told him to throw less of his two-seamer last year because it wasn’t very effective in 2018, but dropping it entirely allowed hitters to sit on his four-seam fastball, which got roughed up. He’s got a great hook, and it’ll be a fun pitch mix experiment to watch.
 
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Manramsclan

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Red Sox official twitter, first tweet now in the opening post
Yikes. Sorry guys.

I just found the initial press release which reads like the tweet from Red Sox official twitter.

No reports currently mention the PBTNL which is strange, especially since that detail could make this deal look very different.
 

The Gray Eagle

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You guys who don't like the return in this deal better prepare yourselves to see how little we get back for Moreland, Bradley, Pillar, and JD. No one wants to give up anything in a season that could end at any time.
 

The Mort Report

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You guys who don't like the return in this deal better prepare yourselves to see how little we get back for Moreland, Bradley, Pillar, and JD. No one wants to give up anything in a season that could end at any time.
And in a normal year they wouldn’t like it but wouldn’t it be close to fair? Two guys that will work the 7th, maybe the 8th? I’m amazed they got a rated prospect(from a system). I was ready for a 18 who threw 95 and a 27 pitcher turned catcher