The Game Goat Thread: Wk.8 at Buffalo

Mooch

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,492
He doesn’t have Brady to bail him out
You were killing it in your post up until here. The last two seasons were the opposite. Belichick and his defense bailed out Brady over and over again. Hell, if not for Belichick and Belichick only, Brady has probably half as many rings, if we’re really being honest here. I’m as big of a Brady guy as anyone but this is about 12 Zakims too far.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,083
How would that happen?
Trade Gilmore, play Stidham and the rookies, and lose out. 2-14 gets you in the ball game. You’d be worse than the Jets who would have the tiebreaker. Houston and Jacksonville have to play each other so somebody is getting to at least 2 wins. Pats play at Houston and could easily lose that one. Dallas and Washington play each other and aren’t losing out. Falcons aren’t losing out.

All of this is unlikely but there is a path. It involves 11 straight losses and the Pats won’t be favored in many of those games.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,646
Arkansas
cam

but i wouild sell after today lucky win by denver bill should call elway and say Tunney and guy for albert O and denver 3rd in 2021 elway wants to win at all costs too u need a good te albert o can play denver needs ol and D-line help its a long term win for ne
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
Trade Gilmore, play Stidham and the rookies, and lose out. 2-14 gets you in the ball game. You’d be worse than the Jets who would have the tiebreaker. Houston and Jacksonville have to play each other so somebody is getting to at least 2 wins. Pats play at Houston and could easily lose that one. Dallas and Washington play each other and aren’t losing out. Falcons aren’t losing out.

All of this is unlikely but there is a path. It involves 11 straight losses and the Pats won’t be favored in many of those games.
If we lose twice to the Jets they still have the tiebreaker?
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
I figure Jets would be behind us in the tank standings, no? Or is it purely SOS?
No, you’re right. I assumed for some reason the Jets also get two wins along the way, but that may very well not happen.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,369
Obviously - I mean *OBVIOUSLY* - none of us has a clue what's going on in Foxboro, in the locker room, in meetings, during practice, etc. We have no idea what BB is seeing.

But from where I sit, the rest of this season should be all about developing younger players and looking forward. That means giving guys like Onwenu, Uche, Myers, Harris, Asiasi, Keene, Winovich, Dugger, Taylor, and yes, Stidham, as much playing time as possible. If they actually look good, hey great, you've got something. If they look terrible and you go 4-12, awesome, you're getting a top-10 pick in the next draft.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,749
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Obviously - I mean *OBVIOUSLY* - none of us has a clue what's going on in Foxboro, in the locker room, in meetings, during practice, etc. We have no idea what BB is seeing.

But from where I sit, the rest of this season should be all about developing younger players and looking forward. That means giving guys like Onwenu, Uche, Myers, Harris, Asiasi, Keene, Winovich, Dugger, Taylor, and yes, Stidham, as much playing time as possible. If they actually look good, hey great, you've got something. If they look terrible and you go 4-12, awesome, you're getting a top-10 pick in the next draft.
I'm on board with this. You gotta see what you have in some guys that could potentially be a part of the next contender the Patriots put together. I'm also 95% sure Stidham stinks, but going into 2021 you can't have any doubt as to what he is as a player. Give him snaps, fuck it.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,014
Oregon
Same here. Nothing worse than a shit season where you’re not even developing your young players.
Not that we'd ever hear why they're not.

When someone asks about it this week, and the answer is "we put the players out there who give us the best chance of winning," i hope the next question is why Winovich and Jennings don't give them a chance of winning
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,012
Mansfield MA
Does anyone have any thoughts as to what this is all about?
The impression I get is Belichick doesn't trust Winovich's run D and doesn't like to play him in games where he thinks other teams are going to run a lot. Winovich only played 8 and 11 snaps in the two Buffalo games last year, and he only played 2 snaps in the divisional loss to the Titans. Invariably the run D is terrible in those games; whether that proves Belichick right or wrong, I am not sure.

The D was really really bad today. 24 points doesn't seem like a lot, but the Bills really only had 8 drives. D went TD, punt, TD, FG in the second half.
 

shoosh77

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2009
4,374
New Canaan, CT
Trader Bill needs to earn his money the next two days:

Guy to Green Bay for a 5th in 2021
Gilmore to Philly for a 2020 2nd and 2021 4th
Thuney to Browns for a 5th in 2020 and a 3rd in 2021
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,014
Oregon
Trader Bill needs to earn his money the next two days:

Guy to Green Bay for a 5th in 2021
Gilmore to Philly for a 2020 2nd and 2021 4th
Thuney to Browns for a 5th in 2020 and a 3rd in 2021
They more likely will pick up a reserve linebacker from the Lions
 

JokersWildJIMED

Blinded by Borges
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2004
2,741
They simply do not have enough young talent to start putting anyone in the doghouse, and yet Winovich is getting the Malcolm Butler treatment.
 

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
3,994
Burrillville, RI
The impression I get is Belichick doesn't trust Winovich's run D...
This. I don’t know why it’s so confusing to people. Winovich is not a 3 down player, the team has mostly been playing from behind, and they’ve been getting gashed against the run.
Regardless of gameplan, the situation hasn’t dictated many reps for him.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,289
I have no sympathy for a decision intended to protect the run D in a game where you were absolutely shredded anyways by what has been among the worst rushing offenses in the entire league. Have no idea what you think you have to lose by leaving talented players off the field.
 
Last edited:

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
10,154
Westwood MA
Could he have gotten that far in the doghouse over the ill-timed penalty a couple of weeks ago, and jawing a little bit about it on the sideline? I would think/hope Bill has a thicker skin and bigger picture view than that.
That thought occurred to me, I really hope that is not the case.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
10,154
Westwood MA
The impression I get is Belichick doesn't trust Winovich's run D and doesn't like to play him in games where he thinks other teams are going to run a lot. Winovich only played 8 and 11 snaps in the two Buffalo games last year, and he only played 2 snaps in the divisional loss to the Titans. Invariably the run D is terrible in those games; whether that proves Belichick right or wrong, I am not sure.

The D was really really bad today. 24 points doesn't seem like a lot, but the Bills really only had 8 drives. D went TD, punt, TD, FG in the second half.
Thanks. this makes more sense.

Sort of disappointing he's not a three down player.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
10,154
Westwood MA
This. I don’t know why it’s so confusing to people. Winovich is not a 3 down player, the team has mostly been playing from behind, and they’ve been getting gashed against the run.
Regardless of gameplan, the situation hasn’t dictated many reps for him.
So at this stage, he's just a situational pass rusher; do you envision a scenario where that changes or is it simply a case of he's got limitations that will not allow him to become a three down player?
 

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
3,994
Burrillville, RI
I have no sympathy for a decision intended to protect the run D in a game where you were absolutely shredded anyways by what has been among the league worst rushing offenses in the entire league. Have no idea what you think you have to lose by leaving talented players off the field.
What if it’s more about protecting a player from being exposed in situations where he is not well equipped?
Bill always wants to put players in position to succeed. Does it follow that he wants to keep players out of situations where they aren’t likely to succeed?
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,749
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
This. I don’t know why it’s so confusing to people. Winovich is not a 3 down player, the team has mostly been playing from behind, and they’ve been getting gashed against the run.
Regardless of gameplan, the situation hasn’t dictated many reps for him.
He played 5 snaps. We're not arguing over him being off the field on certain down and distances, dude wasn't part of the game plan at all, in any circumstances. The Bills had more than 5 3rd downs in passing situations.
 

Average Game James

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2016
4,346
He played 5 snaps. We're not arguing over him being off the field on certain down and distances, dude wasn't part of the game plan at all, in any circumstances. The Bills had more than 5 3rd downs in passing situations.
Actually, they didn't... there were five instances of 3rd and long excluding the kneel down at the end of the game.
 

Average Game James

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2016
4,346
What's "long"? I'd characterize anything over 3rd and 3 as a passing down.
3rd and long is usually considered anything 6 yards or longer (in the case of this game, it was 3rd and 12, 17, 9, 8, and 8). There was also one instance of 3rd and 5 and two of 3rd and 4, but considering both the weather conditions and that Buffalo ran for 5 yards a carry I don't necessarily agree those are clear passing downs. But even if you want to count those as obvious passing downs, that gets you to 8 on the game. If you want to add in 2nd and 10 or more as obvious passing downs, then we're up to 11. There were not many opportunities in this game for situational pass rushers.
 

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
3,994
Burrillville, RI
He played 5 snaps. We're not arguing over him being off the field on certain down and distances, dude wasn't part of the game plan at all, in any circumstances. The Bills had more than 5 3rd downs in passing situations.
I just counted. 5 plays of 3rd and 5 or more for Buffalo in the entire game. (Maybe 6, not sure how they count the 3rd and 12 that turned into a 3rd and 17 after a penalty. I counted it as 1)
I am still at the point where I give the team the benefit of the doubt in that they see him at practice and don’t think he’s the best fit in non obvious pass rush situations.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
46,767
Hartford, CT
Eh?

KVN spent a few years clowning around on the airwaves, generating plenty of clocks, and it didn’t affect his PT. I’m surprised Kyed is giving that theory any time, even though he does not go so far as to report it as legitimate/agree with it.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,233
Not that we'd ever hear why they're not.

When someone asks about it this week, and the answer is "we put the players out there who give us the best chance of winning," i hope the next question is why Winovich and Jennings don't give them a chance of winning
You can't play the good players and expect to lose.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,089
A Scud Away from Hell
The broadcast mentioned that BBJR is calling the defensive plays.

Is Stephen learning on the job? So far, the defense has played like Patricia is still the DC.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
8,878
Dallas
The defensive line made our linebackers look even worse.

On the defense the goat goes to the entire DL but Cowart and even Guy before he was injured were having bad days in the office.
Bentley is not good trying to plug huge holes. The more space around him the less likely he is to make the play.

Offensively I’d say Cam. It’s been 3 games now: Seahawks, Broncos, and now the Bills where they could have won late and instead 3 losses.

OL had a good day. Running backs showed a ton of life including that Burkhead 3rd and long run to convert. Harris looks good and he’s on the same page with Meyers. This was a good matchup for them. There is a lot from this game they can take and run with. Cam still looks a little slow processing.

At the end of the day we are where we started. This passing game is still a giant question mark going forward. Not that one game was going to change that.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,369
You are what your record says you are. And New England is 2-5.

Their five losses:

1. At Seattle, the best team in the NFC. They lost by one yard. Cam makes it into the end zone on the last play, and that's a win for the Patriots.
2. At KC, the best team in the AFC (yes they're better than Pit or Bal). Playing with Brian Freaking Hoyer at QB, they were within one score til the fourth quarter. A very game effort.
3. Vs Den, by a score. They had practiced twice in two weeks. They were driving for the winning score and had 1st down at the Den 24 with 1:17 to go. And couldn't pull it off.
4. Vs SF, in a blowout. Well, not much to say about this one other than that they got their asses kicked.
5. At Buf, AFCE leaders, by three. Obviously had a chance to win it at the end, but Cam...cammed.

So in four of the five losses, three of which were to very good teams, they were *right there* but couldn't finish the job. So on the positive side, you can say that they might not be as bad as their record indicates. But on the negative side...well...they might just be a loser team finding ways to lose.

They could easily be 4-3, maybe 5-2. Easily. But they're not, and it's time to sell.
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
8,711
The broadcast mentioned that BBJR is calling the defensive plays.

Is Stephen learning on the job? So far, the defense has played like Patricia is still the DC.
It looks like SB is sending in the plays and that Mayo is his right-hand man who's probably also commanding his own unit (LBs seems likely). Having repeated issues getting the right number of players on the field suggests that there have been some communication breakdowns and that maybe the D-coordinator by committee approach isn't a sound one.