Point taken—coulda, shoulda, woulda—and bitching about it, while cathartic, doesn’t get the team where it needs to be. Nevertheless, it played a huge role in putting the team in the roster position it finds itself in now, AND, much like the bear in your post above, it’s roosting, fat ass is staring us in the face.I’m tired of hearing about the 2015 draft. It was a flaming disaster but it was 6 years ago.
Not only is that draft extremely relevant to today’s issues as stated above, it also gives me zero faith that this management team can draft well going forward. Other than Charlie McAvoy, have they hit on a pick since Sweeney took over?You're never going to hear the end of the 2015 draft because like Bagwell for Andersen it continues to kill the club to this day. It's still extremely relevant especially when Barzal is fucking up our shit and we could have taken him instead of two fucking guys who can't play and a third who has had only one decent season.
I said it in the game thread but that 2015 draft is Donnie's legacy. Fair or unfair, that's the way it is. If he doesn't fuck it all we likely have at least one more Cup and a lot more postseason success.
Yes Pastrnak was drafted in 2014.Do we still get Pasta if we nail the 2015 draft?
Carlo was also in 2015. Swayman in 2017. Other than that...yikes. Not a single player taken in the '18, '19 and '20 drafts has played in a single NHL game.Not only is that draft extremely relevant to today’s issues as stated above, it also gives me zero faith that this management team can draft well going forward. Other than Charlie McAvoy, have they hit on a pick since Sweeney took over?
LOL...I'm losing at this gameYes Pastrnak was drafted in 2014.
Hanifin hasn't turned into anything special and if anything was a bit underwhelming as the #5 overall pick. Still doesn't excuse seriously overdrafting 2 of the 3 players with those consecutive picks. If we look at the moves from that particular offseason:Imagine getting a decent player in those spots instead of having to rely on Tinordi in these playoffs. Or a constantly injured Carlo and Miller.
I can't believe they really thought they could package those three picks for Hanafin, as was rumored. Talk about insane naivete.
I'm tooNot a single player taken in the '18, '19 and '20 drafts has played in a single NHL game.
Arthur Kaliyev and Nils Hoglander were taken within 10 picks of Beecher in 2019. Kaliyev has played only 1 NHL game, but appears to be a good prospect, whereas Hoglander put up 13g 14a in 56 games for the Canucks this season. I didn't dig beyond that, though I think I would take both players over Beecher (who I remember being touted as a high floor pick due to his size and speed).I'm too lazy to do the research but have any players drafted after them played NHL games? It's not like they've had high picks and those are still recent drafts so that factoid doesn't totally surprise me.
I thought the Bruins tried to and either Chara thought he should have had a bigger role than the Bruins pitched or found it easier to accept it with a new team.Well, if we're using our 20/20 hindsight (and the 2015 draft was indeed a full-blown disaster), should we have brought back Z in a reduced role this season? Obviously, you can't predict injuries, but would've much preferred him on the ice than the glorified waiver wire detritus not named McAvoy or Grzelcyk
Not really. Their top pick in 2018 was Axel Anderson at 57. Only 3 players drafted after him have played more than 40 games in the NHL so far.I'm toolazybusy to do the research but have any players drafted after their played NHL games? It's not like they've had high picks and those are still recent drafts so that factoid doesn't totally surprise me.
Yeah that's about what I figured, I'm sure there would be 1 or 2 but it's not like guys outside the top half of the first round regularly jump right into the NHL in a season or two. It's not unheard of, but also not an indication of poor drafting if it didn't happen, imo.Arthur Kaliyev and Nils Hoglander were taken within 10 picks of Beecher in 2019. Kaliyev has played only 1 NHL game, but appears to be a good prospect, whereas Hoglander put up 13g 14a in 56 games for the Canucks this season. I didn't dig beyond that, though I think I would take both players over Beecher (who I remember being touted as a high floor pick due to his size and speed).
The above does not do much to contradict your point. The Bruins drafted too late in 2018 (pick 57 - Axel Andersson) to quibble over who they should have taken and the 2020 draft was too recent to judge and the Bruins first pick was late in the 2nd round (pick 58 - Mason Lohrei).
It wasn't the Bruins choice to not bring back Z in a reduced role. All indications were that they offered him a contract but would not guarantee that he would be an every game player. They were set on Grzelcyk on the left and wanted 2 out of the Lauzon, Zboril, Vaak group to get sufficient playing time to know what they had. They could have hid the fact that he'd be a healthy scratch at times, especially early in the year. They treated him with respect and let him make his own decision. Washington told him he would be part of the everyday line up and he took up their offer.Well, if we're using our 20/20 hindsight (and the 2015 draft was indeed a full-blown disaster), should we have brought back Z in a reduced role this season? Obviously, you can't predict injuries, but would've much preferred him on the ice than the glorified waiver wire detritus not named McAvoy or Grzelcyk
Players drafted by the Bruins from 2015-present have a total of 110 NHL goals, 91 of which are from Debrusk and McAvoy. The 2014 class has 298, with only one of those players still with the team. The 2011 draft class has 0 outside of Dougie Hamilton, 2012 has 39, 2013 has 7.I'm toolazybusy to do the research but have any players drafted after their played NHL games? It's not like they've had high picks and those are still recent drafts so that factoid doesn't totally surprise me.
I’m tired of hearing about the 2015 draft. It was a flaming disaster but it was 6 years ago.
I get your point about not banging the 2015 draft in the "where are we now" thread. But I think its a symptom of the single most relevant discussion point for the offseason plan -- fucking up and trusting Donnie to do anything right. You could also talk about every single draft pick he's made except for McAvoy (and Swayman). You could talk about Backes, Moore, Beleskey, Rinaldo, Hayes, and every free agent signing. You could talk about mortgaging the future for short term fixes at the trade deadline.You're never going to hear the end of the 2015 draft because like Bagwell for Andersen it continues to kill the club to this day. It's still extremely relevant especially when Barzal is fucking up our shit and we could have taken him instead of two fucking guys who can't play and a third who has had only one decent season.
I said it in the game thread but that 2015 draft is Donnie's legacy. Fair or unfair, that's the way it is. If he doesn't fuck it all we likely have at least one more Cup and a lot more postseason success.
I don't understand what this has to do with my post, which was specifically responding to SJH's point about the 2018-2020 draft classes.Players drafted by the Bruins from 2015-present have a total of 110 NHL goals, 91 of which are from Debrusk and McAvoy. The 2014 class has 298, with only one of those players still with the team. The 2011 draft class has 0 outside of Dougie Hamilton, 2012 has 39, 2013 has 7.
If you want to go further back, the non-Seguin class of 2010 has 55, 2009 has 20, 2008 has 42 (and they're all Joe Colborne's), and 2007 has 0.
Yeah that's on me, I was reading things quickly and thought it was a blanket comment about their drafting in general.I don't understand what this has to do with my post, which was specifically responding to SJH's point about the 2018-2020 draft classes.
Carlo was also in 2015. Swayman in 2017. Other than that...yikes. Not a single player taken in the '18, '19 and '20 drafts has played in a single NHL game.
There's also that there was no 1st in 2018 or 2020 partly because they had to trade them to make up for blowing the 2015 draft. And the 2018 2nd (Andersson) was part of one of those trades as well.I'm toolazybusy to do the research but have any players drafted after their played NHL games? It's not like they've had high picks and those are still recent drafts so that factoid doesn't totally surprise me.
Yeah, Zboril wasn’t a reach. Central Scouting had DeBrusk as a fringe 1st rounder, and Senyshyn deep in the second round. DeBrusk’s early success might’ve warped your memory on that one.They passed on many good players and AT THE TIME OF THE PICKS both Zboril and Senyshyn were considered huge reaches.
It makes zero difference. So they reached on two of the guys and the third has busted. A distinction without a difference. They had an opportunity to set up the franchise for continued success for many years to come and completely bollixed it.Yeah, Zboril wasn’t a reach. Central Scouting had DeBrusk as a fringe 1st rounder, and Senyshyn deep in the second round. DeBrusk’s early success might’ve warped your memory on that one.
Ouch.which is to trade Patrice Bergeron
Quite a few of the people that were involved in the Seguin trade are still with the organization and I absolutely do not trust them to trade another young star and get fair valueI don't think they'd get anything in a Bergeron trade. His age, contract status and NMC is going to severely limit his market.
Honestly, if we're swinging the wrecking ball, the guy to trade is Pastrnak. He's 25 on a bargain contract at $6.66 million for 2 more years. If handled properly, it could net a gold mine. If not, Seguin to Dallas 2.0, probably even worse.
Unless they are trading Pastrnak for someone like Jack Eichel, it would be a huge mistake. I wouldn’t put it past these idiots to try to trade Pastrnak “to fill multiple holes” like they were trying to do with Seguin.I don't think they'd get anything in a Bergeron trade. His age, contract status and NMC is going to severely limit his market.
Honestly, if we're swinging the wrecking ball, the guy to trade is Pastrnak. He's 25 on a bargain contract at $6.66 million for 2 more years. If handled properly, it could net a gold mine. If not, Seguin to Dallas 2.0, probably even worse.
I mostly agree. I've batted around Pasta for Eichel in my head, haven't fully fleshed it out. Not sure what I'd do. Heart says no, head says maybe. Center is more valuable than winger, solves that problem for the next decade. However, while you've fixed center you've really just kicked the problem from center to wing as suddenly you're trying to find a succession plan for Marchand and Hall (if signed). That said, it's generally easier to find wingers than centers so...I don't know. Eichel also makes $3.4 million more than Pastrnak and the whole "I want a surgery no NHL player has ever gotten" debacle is quite worrisome in a variety of ways. They'd be risking a whole lot based on the medical staff's evaluation of Eichel's health and prognosis.Unless they are trading Pastrnak for someone like Jack Eichel, it would be a huge mistake. I wouldn’t put it past these idiots to try to trade Pastrnak “to fill multiple holes” like they were trying to do with Seguin.
Unless they can get someone in here that can draft, this is academic anyway.
I'd rather they keep Bergeron, try to build a competitive team around him, and lose in the 1st/2nd round of the playoffs each year than trade Bergeron now. Maybe if they missed the playoffs and Bergeron was clearly at the end they trade him to a contender to give him the opportunity to win a Cup ala Bourque. Short of that, I'd rather the Bruins shoot their shot with Bergeron and miss until he retires (hopefully as a Bruin), even if it sets their rebuild back 3-4 years. Once Bergeron retires, they can completely tear it down if necessary.And after getting rid of Donnie, you let the next GM make the actual real hard but necessary decision for the rebuild, which is to trade Patrice Bergeron, whether to the three teams on his list, or go to him and let him pick the team with the best chance to use his skills.
Otherwise, we're just moving Nick Ritchie for another plug, the proverbial deck chairs. The only move is to get value for Patrice based on his intangibles, before his tangibles decline too obviously.
It's going to need a messy rebuild, and it needs a non-sentimental guy to do it.
This.Quite a few of the people that were involved in the Seguin trade are still with the organization and I absolutely do not trust them to trade another young star and get fair value
The problem with this is that you are not getting the equivalent of a Ratelle/Park package for Bergeron. Those trades don’t happen anymore due to the cap.For the Bergeron perspective, I'd point out Sinden, for all of his later faults, had the guts to trade Esposito, and (akin to potential Bergeron trade), an aging Hodge for Ricky Middleton.
Fiddling around the third liners is not going to do it. You need to guess right on a high draft pick from 2019 and gain about a decade in service. It may be that Bergeron has the best value at the trade deadline, when Hall fetches a #2, where you swap Bergeron for an undervalued recent first round pick of a team going for it all.
It sucks, as the fans here have said, but it's got to be done.
edit: But as everyone has noted, having the guts to make a move is one thing. Having brains is quite another, as Donnie showed in 2015.
A bit unclear in mixing gumption needed for the Espo trade of equal talent, in which they got a bit younger (Ratelle/Park), for the trade I was suggesting needed to be made, Hodge (age 34) for Middleton (age 21). So you'd save Bergeron's cap hit for a ELC contract.The problem with this is that you are not getting the equivalent of a Ratelle/Park package for Bergeron. Those trades don’t happen anymore due to the cap.
Not sure how much the current holdovers were involved in the actual mechanics. Chiarelli was the one the pulled the trigger after Benning made his idiotic "half of Kane" comments. But I agree with the sentiment that it's hardly ever a good idea to give up the best player in a trade unless you're getting some valuable draft capital in return.Quite a few of the people that were involved in the Seguin trade are still with the organization and I absolutely do not trust them to trade another young star and get fair value
Except nobody is doing that trade today. You’re talking about a team trading cost controlled elite talent for a 35 year old with a $6.8 million cap hit. Nobody is taking on $6 million in cap money, and giving away that kind of talent. It just doesn’t happen in today’s NHL.A bit unclear in mixing gumption needed for the Espo trade of equal talent, in which they got a bit younger (Ratelle/Park), for the trade I was suggesting needed to be made, Hodge (age 34) for Middleton (age 21). So you'd save Bergeron's cap hit for a ELC contract.
I went back and watched the Behind the B video on it to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass (a huge possibility), and along with Cam Neely and Sweeney, Scott Bradley was one of the louder voices in the room and he's currently the assistant GM of....the Boston Bruins. So yeah, I'm good on those guys making blockbuster tradesNot sure how much the current holdovers were involved in the actual mechanics. Chiarelli was the one the pulled the trigger after Benning made his idiotic "half of Kane" comments. But I agree with the sentiment that it's hardly ever a good idea to give up the best player in a trade unless you're getting some valuable draft capital in return.
FWIW, I was in Toronto when the Joe Thornton fiasco of a trade went down. A couple of the hockey media guys on the local TV stations mentioned that they chatted with a handful of NHL front offices, including some GMs, and apparently every one of them was willing to give up far more than what O'Connell settled for when he made his panic trade. I'm guessing the same thing happened with the Seguin trade; no attempt was made to get a better deal, despite there being no real deadline to get a trade done.
The deadline they were put on themselves was free agency. Chiarelli's master plan was to move Seguin so they could re-sign Horton. Horton told them he wasn't signing and then they made the decision Seguin still had to go. They cleared like $2.3 off the cap and used it to sign Iginla.Not sure how much the current holdovers were involved in the actual mechanics. Chiarelli was the one the pulled the trigger after Benning made his idiotic "half of Kane" comments. But I agree with the sentiment that it's hardly ever a good idea to give up the best player in a trade unless you're getting some valuable draft capital in return.
FWIW, I was in Toronto when the Joe Thornton fiasco of a trade went down. A couple of the hockey media guys on the local TV stations mentioned that they chatted with a handful of NHL front offices, including some GMs, and apparently every one of them was willing to give up far more than what O'Connell settled for when he made his panic trade. I'm guessing the same thing happened with the Seguin trade; no attempt was made to get a better deal, despite there being no real deadline to get a trade done.