2021-22 NBA In-Season News/Transactions

HomeRunBaker

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This is as good a place as any to share this but strong words from Billups on his time with Tyronn Lue.

Clippers coach Tyronn Lue brought Billups onto his staff last year, giving him a load of responsibility and repeatedly telling him to get ready for job offers. Billups snaps his fingers, “He was of the mindset that it would happen very quickly. Me? I thought it would happen in a couple years.” “He forced me to ramp up, and I’m glad he did,” Billups said. “He’s the wizard. He helped me with everything. I learned from the best. He was very patient with me.”
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting article on Oladipo, who could be an "X Factor" in the playoffs if healthy, and his rehab here: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/3/23/22991383/victor-oladipo-injury-miami-heat. One thing in the article that I didn't know is that his second surgery in 2021 was a result of the first surgery not going correctly. (Not in this article, but elsewhere Oladipo describes how in his first rehab he never felt right and would wake up with sharp pains in his knee - probably a good time to switch doctors.) And then there was this description of his rehab:

Oladipo was starting over completely. He even had to learn how to walk again, according to Valdes. Following his surgery in New York, Oladipo worked out at the National Basketball Players Association facility in Manhattan, where he would get steps in on a low-impact underwater treadmill. Only when Dr. Glashow was convinced the tendon was fully attached again did Oladipo begin strength training in Miami.
There was good reason for the abundance of caution. Among basketball players, quadricep injuries are relatively uncommon. According to InStreetClothes.com, only Tony Parker, Blake Griffin, Carmelo Anthony, and Malcolm Brogdon are among the few players to have missed extended time in recent years with quadriceps tendon injuries. “There was nothing from a quad tendon aspect to go off of,” said Stefan Valdes, who has a doctorate in physical therapy and has treated Oladipo for the past two years. “Previously, tendons were thought of like, once they become degenerative, they’re basically dead tissue.”
Not anymore. Science and medicine have changed since Parker’s 2017 injury essentially ended his career as a starter. Not only can the tendon heal, but it can also become stronger and more resilient when trained at the right intensity.
At Movement Lab in Miami Lakes, Valdes’s days with Oladipo included at least 90 minutes of lifting and another two hours of basketball drills. They brought in force plates to analyze imbalances in Oladipo’s body and utilized blood-flow-restriction training to isolate the muscle without putting stress on the joints. Valdes said it can make a 20-pound goblet squat feel like 300 pounds. “When utilizing this method, it allows you to train at [a high] intensity while still protecting the surgery,” Valdes said. Everything they did was meant to make Oladipo stronger than ever, which meant pushing his body beyond its limits.
“It becomes more of a mental thing,” Valdes said.
In August, Oladipo agreed to re-sign with the Heat on a minimum deal, and then returned to training camp in October. He still wasn’t sprinting at full speed, nor was he ready for full-contact drills. Together, Valdes and the Heat’s strength-and-conditioning team would relay Oladipo’s rehab assignments to the coaching staff.
“Give him 20 minutes, get him spot shots, get him 45 minutes, make him run, get him tired. Stuff like that,” said Heat assistant coach Anthony Carter.

Rooting for him to come back but seems like next year is more likely than this year. Amazing what medicine/rehab can do these days.
 

sezwho

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Interesting article on Oladipo, who could be an "X Factor" in the playoffs if healthy, and his rehab here:

Rooting for him to come back but seems like next year is more likely than this year. Amazing what medicine/rehab can do these days.
Its truly astonishing and I root for folks showing that level of commitment. My ankle is a mess from basketball injuries and not accessing the right amount or type of rehab, and it has impacted the subsequent 30 years. I wonder what this type of program looks like for normal weekend (Siri really wanted this to read ‘weakened’ ) warriors with regular old insurance…I’ve gone back a couple times for rubber bands PT, etc with quite limited results: I think the compensations are too hard baked to unpack without better tools.

Closer to topic: Oladipo healthy can definitely impact a game or even series.
 

ElUno20

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This is as good a place as any to share this but strong words from Billups on his time with Tyronn Lue.

Clippers coach Tyronn Lue brought Billups onto his staff last year, giving him a load of responsibility and repeatedly telling him to get ready for job offers. Billups snaps his fingers, “He was of the mindset that it would happen very quickly. Me? I thought it would happen in a couple years.” “He forced me to ramp up, and I’m glad he did,” Billups said. “He’s the wizard. He helped me with everything. I learned from the best. He was very patient with me.”
Lue really is a top tier coach. Imagine if he had any good players.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Its truly astonishing and I root for folks showing that level of commitment. My ankle is a mess from basketball injuries and not accessing the right amount or type of rehab, and it has impacted the subsequent 30 years. I wonder what this type of program looks like for normal weekend (Siri really wanted this to read ‘weakened’ ) warriors with regular old insurance…I’ve gone back a couple times for rubber bands PT, etc with quite limited results: I think the compensations are too hard baked to unpack without better tools.
I guess if we found the right trainer, video'd some sessioms, and bought a bunch of tools, we might be able to duplicate some of it if we were super dedicated to individual work-outs but these guys (and teams) pour hundreds of thousands (or even millions according to LBJ) into their bodies. Other people I'm sure have better insight into this but from the little I know, the body work people are doing now are light years away from what they did 30 years ago. Just watching some of the pre-game exercises guys do on the court is fascinating to me.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I guess if we found the right trainer, video'd some sessioms, and bought a bunch of tools, we might be able to duplicate some of it if we were super dedicated to individual work-outs but these guys (and teams) pour hundreds of thousands (or even millions according to LBJ) into their bodies. Other people I'm sure have better insight into this but from the little I know, the body work people are doing now are light years away from what they did 30 years ago. Just watching some of the pre-game exercises guys do on the court is fascinating to me.
A lot of it really is dedication. Spending millions won't help much if you aren't willing to do the rehab.
 

RorschachsMask

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I don't think he had much of a chance at first team anyway. He may have to battle just to get on second in fact.

Giannis, Embiid/Jokic, Durant, Lebron are my guess for 1st and 2nd team forwards
After this tweet, I’m pretty sure it’ll end up like last year, with one of Jokic or Embiid for 2nd team center. Tatum (IMO) won’t finish any lower than 2nd team, but I agree it’s more likely than 1st.

View: https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1507809068341149696?s=20&t=LBPuddMa65uEdtFgWnytUA
 
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ManicCompression

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The NBA should just get rid of the positions on the All-NBA teams (and all-star teams for that matter). Skills are the important thing, not positional expectations of height. A team of Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Durant, and Lebron would function just fine on offense and defense and not a single one of them would be thought of as a "guard." Just get the fifteen best players the recognition they deserve and stop with the silly distinctions - it's not like these teams are going to actually play anyone.
 

Euclis20

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I don't think he had much of a chance at first team anyway. He may have to battle just to get on second in fact.

Giannis, Embiid/Jokic, Durant, Lebron are my guess for 1st and 2nd team forwards
If Durant wasn't Durant he probably wouldn't have a shot at 1st or 2nd considering he'll miss at least 1/3 of the year, and if Lebron wasn't Lebron he probably wouldn't have a shot at 1st or 2nd team considering the Lakers are 11 games under .500 and in danger of missing out on the play in games, but it is what it is.

FWIW I don't think Durant is a lock at all for 1st or 2nd given how much time he's missed - LeBron missed 27 games in 2019 and made 3rd team, despite averaging 27/8/8. Durant has also missed 27 games and is averaging 29/7/6.
 

Cellar-Door

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NBA needs to do one of 3 things:
1. Go positionless
2. Go Frontcourt Backcourt and every guy is only eligible for one or the other.
3. Stop this nonsense and just recognize for that the entire history of the awards top 3 players have ended up 2nd and even 3rd team because they all played the same position.

If I were a voter I would categorically refuse to vote EMbiid and Jokic both 1st team, I'm not doing hypos, they played C all year
 

the moops

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Only wort of joking but they should ask basketball fans what position does this guy play? Nobody would say PF for either Jokic or Embiid. Luka would be a PG, but I guess it gets tricky after the C and PG stuff.

There are way too many SG/SF/PF folks that would confuse us all though. Not nearly as many PF/C or PG/SG questions. Is Jaylen a SG or SF? Booker a SG or SF? Tatum a SF or PF? DeRozan?
 

slamminsammya

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Only wort of joking but they should ask basketball fans what position does this guy play? Nobody would say PF for either Jokic or Embiid. Luka would be a PG, but I guess it gets tricky after the C and PG stuff.

There are way too many SG/SF/PF folks that would confuse us all though. Not nearly as many PF/C or PG/SG questions. Is Jaylen a SG or SF? Booker a SG or SF? Tatum a SF or PF? DeRozan?
I think basketball fans in 2022 would recognize these positions are very outdated. Theres really three positions to me and even these are questionable. 1) Primary ballhandler, 2) Big, 3) the rest.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Only wort of joking but they should ask basketball fans what position does this guy play? Nobody would say PF for either Jokic or Embiid. Luka would be a PG, but I guess it gets tricky after the C and PG stuff.

There are way too many SG/SF/PF folks that would confuse us all though. Not nearly as many PF/C or PG/SG questions. Is Jaylen a SG or SF? Booker a SG or SF? Tatum a SF or PF? DeRozan?
They are trying to make this as confusing as possible for the voter. List two C as C and F…..so which one do you vote for as the C and which one for the F? Since they are both their teams C do either get voted as a F? Putting my voting shoes on I’d have no idea how to interpret this.
 

Saints Rest

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NBA needs to do one of 3 things:
1. Go positionless
2. Go Frontcourt Backcourt and every guy is only eligible for one or the other.
3. Stop this nonsense and just recognize for that the entire history of the awards top 3 players have ended up 2nd and even 3rd team because they all played the same position.

If I were a voter I would categorically refuse to vote EMbiid and Jokic both 1st team, I'm not doing hypos, they played C all year
Option 1 makes the most sense, not just today jut where the game is heading. It's no longer 1984.

All-NBA First -- and second -- team should mean the 5 best -- and next 5 best -- players. Period. Regardless of position. Some years that may mean a bunch of Bigs; some years, a bunch of ball-handlers; and many years, a bunch of wings. So be it.
 

Bosoxian

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So the Suns had to choose between Luca and Anton with the #1. They were in a tough position, as Anton played for Arizona, but what if they had picked Luca.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So the Suns had to choose between Luca and Anton with the #1. They were in a tough position, as Anton played for Arizona, but what if they had picked Luca.
I don’t recall the Phoenix conundrum at all. Was there ever any doubt they would choose Ayton? They loved him at the workout, Ayton came away saying he was going to Phoenix, and virtually every mock had Bagley going at #2. @nighthob you would recall better than me.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don’t recall the Phoenix conundrum at all. Was there ever any doubt they would choose Ayton? They loved him at the workout, Ayton came away saying he was going to Phoenix, and virtually every mock had Bagley going at #2. @nighthob you would recall better than me.
I'm fairly certain that your recollection is correct. Ayton was going there. And the Bagley at #2 was widely predicted also, with the obvious caveat that whoever Sacramento picked would be the wrong guy because Sacramento.

I remember some pieces suggesting Jackson and Doncic as wiser choices for the Kings, but expecting Bagley. I don't remember anyone national really throwing Luka at 1, although with a million prognosticators out there someone did.

Amazing to see so many old school bigs so high. That was only 4 years ago, but may as well have been 24.
 

Swedgin

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I don’t recall the Phoenix conundrum at all. Was there ever any doubt they would choose Ayton? They loved him at the workout, Ayton came away saying he was going to Phoenix, and virtually every mock had Bagley going at #2. @nighthob you would recall better than me.
It is accurate to say most mocks had the Suns picking Ayton. It is not the case that Ayton was the clear #1 on folks' big boards. Lots of draftniks identified Luka as the best player in the draft. The reporting/rumors at the time was that the Saver/University of Arizona connection was driving the Ayton pick.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It is accurate to say most mocks had the Suns picking Ayton. It is not the case that Ayton was the clear #1 on folks' big boards. Lots of draftniks identified Luka as the best player in the draft. The reporting/rumors at the time was that the Saver/University of Arizona connection was driving the Ayton pick.
I thought there were some rumblings they didn't like the Luka/Booker pairing either.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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The Suns also picked up Mikal Bridges in that draft (a sneaky terrible move by Philly, who thought that the Miami 2021 unprotected first they got back was gold), which maybe doesnt happen if they draft Luka.

Luka is the better individual player, but Ayton was the right choice for Phoenix. They've been able to build a really good team for the last couple of seasons in part because they are getting really good C play at roughly $10MM per year (putting aside what happens at the end of this season, of course).
 

Kliq

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Many smart people believed that Luka was incredibly special and should have been the #1 overall pick. It wasn't crazy that Ayton went #1, but Luka was absolutely a viable #1 pick at the time. A lot of people didn't have a good grasp on how incredible Luka was in Europe and what that meant relative to other Euros who had come over in the past. For the people who did know how incredible it was for somebody to be EuroLeague MVP at 19 years old, he was widely considered for the #1 pick.

A weird thing was that the Suns had Luka's former coach, Igor Kokoskov, who had been the Slovenian national team coach, who apparently wasn't super high on Luka. As it turns out, Kokosov was a bad coach, and Luka should have went #1.
 

Kliq

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This guy was all over Luka:

Some quick thoughts as the draft approaches:

- I don't really know what Luka Doncic has done up to this point to lose the consensus #1 pick label. I have very little doubt that right now Doncic is a better basketball player than Ayton and he continues to shine playing basketball against professionals. The resume for what he has accomplished up until this point is just so much thicker than Ayton's, and he is younger than Ayton. I know Ayton has a great physical profile and put up big numbers in college; but I don't see him as a superior prospect than Doncic, who was arguably the best non-NBA player in the world as a teenager this year. I also think a huge part of this is that in today's NBA it's just better to have a versatile wing that can do it all than having a talented big man.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Many smart people believed that Luka was incredibly special and should have been the #1 overall pick. It wasn't crazy that Ayton went #1, but Luka was absolutely a viable #1 pick at the time. A lot of people didn't have a good grasp on how incredible Luka was in Europe and what that meant relative to other Euros who had come over in the past. For the people who did know how incredible it was for somebody to be EuroLeague MVP at 19 years old, he was widely considered for the #1 pick.

A weird thing was that the Suns had Luka's former coach, Igor Kokoskov, who had been the Slovenian national team coach, who apparently wasn't super high on Luka. As it turns out, Kokosov was a bad coach, and Luka should have went #1.
I went digging through about 15 mocks from that year and didn’t find a single one that had Doncic at #1 and only 2 that had Doncic over Bagley. Who were all the people who widely considered Doncic to have gone first?
 

jmcc5400

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I went digging through about 15 mocks from that year and didn’t find a single one that had Doncic at #1 and only 2 that had Doncic over Bagley. Who were all the people who widely considered Doncic to have gone first?
I think the distinction is that many mock drafts try to project what teams will do rather than who the best player is. For example, the Ringer accurately mocked Ayton-Bagley-Doncic but all three analysts (O'Connor, Chau, Tjarks) had Doncic as the best player in the draft. https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2018/
 

Kliq

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I went digging through about 15 mocks from that year and didn’t find a single one that had Doncic at #1 and only 2 that had Doncic over Bagley. Who were all the people who widely considered Doncic to have gone first?
Yeah, I think what Jmcc said is more accurate. I did find a SB Nation person who thought Luka should go number one, and I know Bill Simmons was huge on Luka #1, but I was surprised going back and seeing people like Ayton more than Luka. Even Fran Frischilla thought the Suns should take Luka. But the overall analysis was heavy praise for Luka.
 

ManicCompression

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I went digging through about 15 mocks from that year and didn’t find a single one that had Doncic at #1 and only 2 that had Doncic over Bagley. Who were all the people who widely considered Doncic to have gone first?
As others have noted, Mocks were taking into account what the Suns were pushing w/r/t Ayton being U of A, the fit of Doncic and Booker, etc. When it came to actually ranking the players in the class on a big board, Doncic was often viewed as the best prospect:
Bleacher Report: View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2781782-final-2018-nba-draft-big-board-who-will-take-our-top-prospect-luka-doncic

Ringer https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2018/
Sporting news https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-draft-2018-big-board-prospect-rankings-order-deandre-ayton-trae-young-jaren-jackson-jr/1ux40dxe8oh2z179oyxpcn7sqw

I couldn't find the direct source b/c I don't have Insider, but Givony had Luka as his top player in the class as well: https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/11/6/16612532/2018-nba-draft-big-board-espn-top-100-prospects

There were a lot of concerns about Ayton's work ethic and the idea that he wouldn't work defensively in the NBA (all of which gained momentum when he was outplayed by two star recruits from Buffalo in the tournament).
 

Bosoxian

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I don’t recall the Phoenix conundrum at all. Was there ever any doubt they would choose Ayton? They loved him at the workout, Ayton came away saying he was going to Phoenix, and virtually every mock had Bagley going at #2. @nighthob you would recall better than me.
I was living in phoenix at the time. Igor K was the coach at the time and was said to be pushing for Luca, but it was a losing battle given the UA connection ans Sarver’s pushing Ayton. They also have a history of not ever having a true dominant big man (I think they lost the coin flip for Alcindor).
 

the moops

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Luka is the better individual player, but Ayton was the right choice for Phoenix. They've been able to build a really good team for the last couple of seasons in part because they are getting really good C play at roughly $10MM per year (putting aside what happens at the end of this season, of course).
Picking the inferior player is almost never the correct choice. PHO could have found decent center play for 10 million a year but had Luka instead of Ayton.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Picking the inferior player is almost never the correct choice. PHO could have found decent center play for 10 million a year but had Luka instead of Ayton.
And even Phoenix knows this is true at this point, since they didn’t offer Ayton the rookie max extension this past summer, while for Dallas giving the max to Doncic was an easy decision.
 

HomeRunBaker

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And even Phoenix knows this is true at this point, since they didn’t offer Ayton the rookie max extension this past summer, while for Dallas giving the max to Doncic was an easy decision.
I don’t think that is an admission nearly as much as that the game has changed to devalue true 5’s. Had Ayton’s extension come up 5 years ago I’d imagine he would have gotten it.
 

JM3

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I was going through the 2018 draft thread where I used to do most of my basketball posting & was surprised I posted:

"RW to Celtics could be fun."

& then quoted that post 30 minutes later saying "good good" lol

This was my take on the Doncic/Trae trade:

This is just like the Celtics trade with the 76ers last year where the team traded down to get the player they would have drafted anyway.

The difference of course being that the Hawks are morons.
Most of what I read was people's big boards being Doncic/JJJ/Ayton in roughly that order with a lot of people expecting Trae & Bagley to be empty stats guys, especially Bagley.
 

Euclis20

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Akeem/Bowie/Jordan vs. Ayton/Bagley/Doncic - discuss. Lower overall talent level, maybe, but a pretty similar feel to how the top three are panning out, no?
Yeah I've had this same thought. Doncic is clearly the best in the class but no one is killing Phoenix because while he isn't Hakeem, he's a very solid player and fills a need on an excellent Suns' team. If Phoenix had drafted Doncic they wouldn't have traded for Paul, and would likely be worse off today (if only because it's hard to imagine them being much better). No one blames the Rockets for taking Hakeem (one of the greatest centers of all time and got them two titles), and Portland/Sacramento will always regret Bowie/Bagley. Just a couple of terrible choices.
 

Kliq

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Since being traded to Detroit, Bagley is averaging 15-7 on 56% shooting for a Detroit team that has been pretty competitive over that stretch. He was an intriguing buy low candidate for Detroit and he's very talented and only just turned 23.
 

JM3

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Since being traded to Detroit, Bagley is averaging 15-7 on 56% shooting for a Detroit team that has been pretty competitive over that stretch. He was an intriguing buy low candidate for Detroit and he's very talented and only just turned 23.
Bagley is playing almost exactly the same now as he did as a 19 y/o rookie. I can't say I'm particularly inspired.

Rookie year:

15 points, 8 rebounds, 56% TS, .110 WS/48

Since joining the Pistons:

15 points, 7 rebounds, 59% TS, .111 WS/48

He's also blocking 1/3 of the shots he did as a rookie, & the Pistons are a non-competitive -10.1 points per 100 possessions when he's on the court (the Kings were -3.1 his rookie year).
 

Sam Ray Not

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Akeem/Bowie/Jordan vs. Ayton/Bagley/Doncic - discuss. Lower overall talent level, maybe, but a pretty similar feel to how the top three are panning out, no?
Ayton is no (H)akeem, and Luka is no MJ, but I get the basic parallels.

I might put Edwards/Wiseman/LaMelo in that same category, depending how Wiseman's game/health evolves over the couple years.
 

Kliq

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A funny thing about Ayton was a concern coming out of college for him was his motor, and in the NBA I'd say his best attribute is his energy and willingness to run the floor. Coming out there was a belief that he could be a three point shooter as well, something that hasn't really materialized in the NBA, but he could add that almost any time. He's a very good player and the team has been successful; I wonder where he would rank among centers in the NBA?

He's definitely behind:

Jokic
Embiid
Towns
Gobert

After I think you could make a case nobody is better. Next group would be Ayton, Bam, TL, Vuc and Sabonis.