How to get back in this thing

chawson · May 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
Performing Above Expectations:
- Eovaldi: 2.94 era (career 4.15)
- Wacha: 1.38 era (career 4.07)
- Hill: 2.86 era (career 3.78)
- Whitlock: 1.25 era (he's been great in his short MLB career but a 1.25 era is not a reasonable expectation for anyone)
- Robles: 1.74 era (career 4.36)
- Davis: 2.92 era (career 5.19)

Performing Roughly At Expectations:
- Bogaerts: .883 ops (career .814, so .883 is better, but only 2 homers so far, which is worse)
- JDM: .889 ops (career .881)
- Brasier: 3.00 era (career 3.37)
- Strahm: 3.12 era (career 3.79)
- Diekman: 4.15 era (career 3.74)

Performing Below Expectations:
- Devers: .766 ops (career .843)
- Vazquez: .537 ops (career .688)
- Dalbec: .456 ops (career .771)
- Story: .586 ops (career .855; road career .748)
- Verdugo: .598 ops (career .777)
- Hernandez: .567 ops (career .741)
- Bradley: .571 ops (career .702)
- Arroyo: .523 ops (career .674)
- Pivetta: 7.84 era (career 5.26)
- Barnes: 7.71 era (career 4.13)

So of the 21 guys listed, 6 are doing better than expected - and of those 6, 4 are starting pitchers (counting Whitlock), and all 6 are pitchers. 5 are performing right around what you'd expect, and of those 6, 3 are pitchers. 10 are underperforming, and of those, 8 are hitters.

So the lineup really only has 3 guys doing ok - none are over performing - X, JD, and maybe you could put Devers in that category. And the rest are sucking big time. The pitching has held up okay actually, with just a couple of pitchers really sucking badly.

We can blame Cora, but it's not really on the manager when proven veteran players are just all sucking like this. It's not really on Chaim either. It's mainly on the players who are just dragging this team down into the sewer. I mean, it's true that Chaim did acquire JBJ and Story, and he hasn't gotten a better player at 1b, and he did sign Barnes to a big deal. But come on. Barnes CANNOT pitch to a 7.71 era. Neither can Pivetta. And 7 regulars in the lineup have ops numbers in either the .400s or .500s. I mean, no GM, no manager, can expect THAT.

I think league-adjusted weighted statistics make more sense to use right now. The deadened/humidored balls seems like too big a story to draw conclusions from ERA/OPS.

I’m rarely a fan of using career stats for anything predictive, particularly ERA. Hansel Robles may have a 1.74 ERA, but he’s got a 4.82 FIP and -0.2 fWAR. Vazquez is indeed bad, but I don’t think it helps a ton to compare his OPS this season to a benchmark skewed by his hyperinflated juiced ball year in 2019. Eovaldi has a completely different arsenal than he did with the Yankees and Marlins.

View: https://twitter.com/matthewpouliot/status/1522269855243767808?s=21&t=2k2lNsoBN68l5wS8c3z6AQ

Tweet from Matthew Pouliot, NBC Sports:
Lifetime OPS
.682 - Deivi Cruz
.679 - Dee Strange-Gordon
.676 - MLB teams in 2022
.675 - Miguel Cairo
.673 - Yuniesky Betancourt
.672 - Neifi Perez

The Sox have been bad, no doubt. But the whole league is in weird territory.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · May 7, 2022

The Sox are officially in last place, 9 games out and 1/2 game behind Baltimore for 4th.

2 runs on only 6 hits last night to fall to 10-17.

They’re shaping up to be far worse than the 2012 team.

Rovin Romine · May 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
We can blame Cora, but it's not really on the manager when proven veteran players are just all sucking like this. It's not really on Chaim either. It's mainly on the players who are just dragging this team down into the sewer.

The coaching staff does bear some responsibility for getting guys unstuck, and implementing a better game strategy - even running up pitch counts and taking walks, as opposed to aggressivity. Which the entire league knows about.
Ditto for not pulling starters early, etc.

And when the team is struggling, good managerial decisions that result in stealing wins are gold. I've seen none. That said, if there are no immediately obvious better options for 6 of the 9 in the lineup, there's not a lot for the GM and manager to do. And, considering that, we must add the scrubs with over 10 plate appearances:
Arroyo - .523 OPS
Plawecki - .299
Shaw - .000
Cordero - .502

I think it would be largely malpractice if (for example) Duran hit but was benched to give Hernandez "a chance to find his swing." Right now even the gleam of marginal effectiveness has to be valued over "getting them going."

moondog80 · May 7, 2022

Rovin Romine said:
I think it would be largely malpractice if (for example) Duran hit but was benched to give Hernandez "a chance to find his swing." Right now even the gleam of marginal effectiveness has to be valued over "getting them going."

It would be JBJ benched in that scenario, no?

Petagine in a Bottle · May 7, 2022

Looking at last nights lineup, how many of the batters who appeared for the Sox do we expect to be on next years team? Duran, Story, Devers, and Verdugo probably? But seems like that might be it. On the pitching side, Davis? Brasier? Kind of feels like almost everything could go. But, since the Sox are pretty deep in the “a few years away from the bigs” department, what should they be looking for / expect to get back in return for what they have to sell? They need major league ready players, but I think it will be hard to get those kind of players- although perhaps it’s get what you can and work on using prospects to get major league talent in the off-season.

(And this is probably more in the sellers discussion. Given the expanded playoffs, the team (like most teams) won’t be out of it for a long time but is there a point where you decide your team isn’t a contender?)

chawson · May 7, 2022

Rovin Romine said:
I think it would be largely malpractice if (for example) Duran hit but was benched to give Hernandez "a chance to find his swing." Right now even the gleam of marginal effectiveness has to be valued over "getting them going."

Kiké Hernandez was one of the couple dozen most valuable players in the league last year and is currently in his walk year. You think he should be benched after a bad month following a short spring training in favor of our below-average defensive center field hopeful Jarren Duran?

moondog80 · May 7, 2022

chawson said:
Kiké Hernandez was one of the couple dozen most valuable players in the league last year and is currently in his walk year. You think he should be benched after a bad month following a short spring training in favor of our below-average defensive center field hopeful Jarren Duran?

I'm not saying Kike needs to be benched, but last year was out of line with the two previous ones (though to be fair, similar to 2018). 2021 Kike might not be coming back.

Sandy Leon Trotsky · May 7, 2022

moondog80 said:
I'm not saying Kike needs to be benched, but last year was out of line with the two previous ones (though to be fair, similar to 2018). 2021 Kike might not be coming back.

I was pretty frustrated by early season Kiké Hernandez in 2021 too. Glad I didn't put any stock in 30 games worth of playing time

But--- clearly the aggressive approach is garbage. It may have been useful when opposing pitchers knew that batters would always take a first pitch around the league and saw it as a chance to hit a meatball.... but now if they're changing that approach, it seems like a bad strategy again. Patience is always good but if pitchers are grooving a pitch down the middle as a strategy to get a strike knowing that you'll watch it go by, then being aggressive is good there. But that's not the case now.

Petagine in a Bottle · May 7, 2022

Simple solution is trading Bogaerts and moving Hernandez to 2b, or trading Hernandez. Or dump Bradley and platoon Duran / Davis. Or, all of the above

chawson · May 7, 2022

moondog80 said:
I'm not saying Kike needs to be benched, but last year was out of line with the two previous ones (though to be fair, similar to 2018). 2021 Kike might not be coming back.

Kiké has a 32 percent pop up rate right now. Last year it was 12 percent. It’s frustrating as hell but I don’t think this suddenly, permanently, became who he is.

tims4wins · May 7, 2022

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
The Sox are officially in last place, 9 games out and 1/2 game behind Baltimore for 4th.

2 runs on only 6 hits last night to fall to 10-17.

They’re shaping up to be far worse than the 2012 team.

.370.

The 2020 team even managed .400. (24-36)

2012 was .426 (69-93).

2014 was .438 (71-91).

1992 was .451 (73-89).

1994 was .470 (54-61).

Those are the worst Sox teams of the last ~50-60 years.

moondog80 · May 7, 2022

chawson said:
Kiké has a 32 percent pop up rate right now. Last year it was 12 percent. It’s frustrating as hell but I don’t think this suddenly, permanently, became who he is.

Yeah, I don't think this is who he is. But thinking 2021 is who he is seems very optimistic. I'd love to be wrong.

Would you sign him to a 3 year, 30 million dollar extension right now?

Sandy Leon Trotsky · May 7, 2022

moondog80 said:
Yeah, I don't think this is who he is. But thinking 2021 is who he is seems very optimistic. I'd love to be wrong.

Would you sign him to a 3 year, 30 million dollar extension right now?

yes.

MFYankees · May 7, 2022

Sandy Leon Trotsky said:
I was pretty frustrated by early season Kiké Hernandez in 2021 too. Glad I didn't put any stock in 30 games worth of playing time

But--- clearly the aggressive approach is garbage. It may have been useful when opposing pitchers knew that batters would always take a first pitch around the league and saw it as a chance to hit a meatball.... but now if they're changing that approach, it seems like a bad strategy again. Patience is always good but if pitchers are grooving a pitch down the middle as a strategy to get a strike knowing that you'll watch it go by, then being aggressive is good there. But that's not the case now.

Remembering last year how Schwarber's patient approach seemed to wear off on other batters and make them better. I'd like to see a more patient approach now.

lexrageorge · May 7, 2022

tims4wins said:
.370.

The 2020 team even managed .400. (24-36)

2012 was .426 (69-93).

2014 was .438 (71-91).

1992 was .451 (73-89).

1994 was .470 (54-61).

Those are the worst Sox teams of the last ~50-60 years.

Cross-posting from a similar discussion in another thread:

While I don't expect my response to age well, the two Red Sox teams with worst starts than this one were 1972 (10-17) and 1996 (9-18), and both were back in the playoff hunt in September (I'm ignoring the 2020 CoVid season). I have nothing substantive to add on how to get there other than "play better and coach better".

NYCSox · May 7, 2022

E5 Yaz said:
I remember reading a Letter to the Sports Editor long ago from a fan (a kid, I hope) who said the Red Sox should trade away all their bad players and get good players in return.

So did we give that guy a membership?

Sandy Leon Trotsky · May 7, 2022

NYCSox said:
So did we give that guy a membership?

Hell…. Fire Bloom and replace him with that person!

Toe Nash · May 7, 2022

chawson said:
There's been a little too much economic reasoning around here. It's a pleasure to watch the Mets win after their FO went out and spent a bunch of money on good players. I wouldn't be surprised if the stalled contract negotiations with X and Devers have affected the clubhouse in some way.

Bloom has done a great job rebuilding the system, for sure. But I think he's overstating the value of financial flexibility moving forward. There's a whole mess of issues with the ball this year and I'm sure that has added to frustrations. But more and more, it looks like the Red Sox simply have a shortage of good players, and that shortage extends to those under contract for the 2023-24 teams. Is the plan really that 2025 is the next contention window? Because a 5-year rebuild should be unacceptable for a major-market team.

It's not really economic reasoning, it's being realistic because the farm system has not been very good in the last few years and unless you can predict which FAs will be the best value with incredible accuracy, or have a couple consistently 5+ WAR superstars to build around, you need to have a strong farm system to win. Kevin Gausman does not fix this team and adding a bunch of guys in their mid-30s like the Mets did probably doesn't either.

Here are the useful players from Red Sox' drafts starting in 2015:
2015: Benintendi
2016 (Dombrowski's first): Dalbec, Groome (maybe a fringe MLBer), Santiago Espinal (Traded to Toronto for Steve Pearce)
2017: Houck
2018: Casas, Duran
2019: Eh? Brandon Walter maybe?
2020 (Bloom's first draft, weird short COVID draft): Yorke, Blaze Jordan
2021: Mayer

And they didn't sign a whole lot of good international FAs during that time either. And one of the players they are paying the most money to (that the last guy re-signed) hasn't played this year. That's why they have a shortage of good players! There is little in the farm that they can slot in or trade for help.

Fortunately now the farm system is improving but as I said above it makes no sense to pay top dollar and block your best prospects in order to be a little better over the next couple years.

It also wasn't a 5-year rebuild as they made the damn ALCS last year (when a lot of short-term FAs played great). You are hoping for impossible things given the lack or prospect development in the Dombrowski period.

Rovin Romine · May 7, 2022

chawson said:
Kiké Hernandez was one of the couple dozen most valuable players in the league last year and is currently in his walk year. You think he should be benched after a bad month following a short spring training in favor of our below-average defensive center field hopeful Jarren Duran?

Read the whole post and try again.

jose melendez · May 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
Performing Above Expectations:
- Eovaldi: 2.94 era (career 4.15)
- Wacha: 1.38 era (career 4.07)
- Hill: 2.86 era (career 3.78)
- Whitlock: 1.25 era (he's been great in his short MLB career but a 1.25 era is not a reasonable expectation for anyone)
- Robles: 1.74 era (career 4.36)
- Davis: 2.92 era (career 5.19)

Performing Roughly At Expectations:
- Bogaerts: .883 ops (career .814, so .883 is better, but only 2 homers so far, which is worse)
- JDM: .889 ops (career .881)
- Brasier: 3.00 era (career 3.37)
- Strahm: 3.12 era (career 3.79)
- Diekman: 4.15 era (career 3.74)

Performing Below Expectations:
- Devers: .766 ops (career .843)
- Vazquez: .537 ops (career .688)
- Dalbec: .456 ops (career .771)
- Story: .586 ops (career .855; road career .748)
- Verdugo: .598 ops (career .777)
- Hernandez: .567 ops (career .741)
- Bradley: .571 ops (career .702)
- Arroyo: .523 ops (career .674)
- Pivetta: 7.84 era (career 5.26)
- Barnes: 7.71 era (career 4.13)

So of the 21 guys listed, 6 are doing better than expected - and of those 6, 4 are starting pitchers (counting Whitlock), and all 6 are pitchers. 5 are performing right around what you'd expect, and of those 6, 3 are pitchers. 10 are underperforming, and of those, 8 are hitters.

So the lineup really only has 3 guys doing ok - none are over performing - X, JD, and maybe you could put Devers in that category. And the rest are sucking big time. The pitching has held up okay actually, with just a couple of pitchers really sucking badly.

We can blame Cora, but it's not really on the manager when proven veteran players are just all sucking like this. It's not really on Chaim either. It's mainly on the players who are just dragging this team down into the sewer. I mean, it's true that Chaim did acquire JBJ and Story, and he hasn't gotten a better player at 1b, and he did sign Barnes to a big deal. But come on. Barnes CANNOT pitch to a 7.71 era. Neither can Pivetta. And 7 regulars in the lineup have ops numbers in either the .400s or .500s. I mean, no GM, no manager, can expect THAT.

It’s striking that four of the people in the “overachieving” category are currently in out rotation and we’re still this bad.

soxhop411 · May 7, 2022

jose melendez said:
It’s striking that four of the people in the “overachieving” category are currently in out rotation and we’re still this bad.

Which is insane as going into the season Our rotation and BP were thought to be the weakest part of the team. When in reality it’s the offense that’s been the worst part of the team and one of the major reasons we are where we are in the standings today.

chawson · May 7, 2022

moondog80 said:
Yeah, I don't think this is who he is. But thinking 2021 is who he is seems very optimistic. I'd love to be wrong.

Would you sign him to a 3 year, 30 million dollar extension right now?

I would, yeah. We need to add two plus defensive outfielders to cover CF/RF next year if neither Cordero or Duran step up. Even if they both do, to the extent we can feel confident giving them starting jobs next year, that configuration is defensively iffy. I don’t think you’d find a potential 4-5 win CF on the market for less than 3/$30, let alone one who wants to be here.

Kiké will figure it out at the plate.

Lose Remerswaal · May 7, 2022

Cordero isn't stepping up.

Archer1979 · May 7, 2022

I'm not one to throw in the towel this early in the season, but it might be time to go the Morgan Miracle route (circa '88) and call up the young studs to see what they can do. This team is not one trade away from being a contender.

Down side is that the starting pitching in the minors isn't ready for prime time...yet. Bringing up pitchers too early is a lot riskier than bringing up a position player too early.

JCizzle · May 7, 2022

Lose Remerswaal said:
Cordero isn't stepping up.

He's got 15 ABs (with a higher OPS in those than Bobby on the season!). He may very well fail, but I think they need to give him a chance to stick at first. I still don't understand how or why this team went into the season with Bobby Dalbec, JBJ, and no alternatives they were ready to insert if needed. Bobby missed a relatively routine throw yesterday and can't hit. I don't understand what more they're hoping to see from him. At least JBJ is hitting at home, for now.

Kliq · May 7, 2022

BaseballJones said:
If the guys that have historically been pretty good would just stop sucking, this team would be in pretty good shape. I don't think that's asking for a miracle.

I guess the debate will be how much of this team is guys' struggling early and they'll return to ass-kicking form, and how much of it is a bunch of guys playing pretty close to their expected level?

Bogaerts and JD have been really good this season, OPS+ of 154 and 152 respectively. Devers has been slower than usual, but still well above average, with an OPS+ of 118. Those guys are hitting close to expected levels.

Vazquez, JBJ, Dalbec and Arroyo have all been pretty bad, but there wasn't a ton of reason to expect them to be particularly good this year; although Dalbec certainly has gotten hot at times and shown the ability to hit really well at the major league level. But I'm not banking on huge turnarounds for those guys.

Kike had a career-year last year, and he isn't THIS bad for sure, but he also has a career OPS+ of 98; he's had some down years throughout his career and I think counting him in as close to being the offensive player that he was last year might be a mistake. There was a reason he was available last off-season.

Verdugo has been the real disappointment this year, and the one I'd expect to get better out of the whole group. He isn't a .219 hitter and I'm pretty confident he at least will be able to figure things out and bounce back.

Story...I don't know. He's certainly better than what he has shown so far this year. At the same time, his numbers away from Coors were substantially worse and while I understand that hitters are always prone to big drop-offs when Coors is their home park due to the dramatic change in conditions, it was a red flag when he was signed and he hasn't shown anything to instill confidence that he will be an all-star level hitter in Boston. He also didn't exactly tear the cover off the ball last season. I'm not ready to pour dirt on him yet, but I'm keeping my bounce-back expectations on the conservative side.

Rovin Romine · May 7, 2022

chawson said:
I would, yeah.

You also endlessly championed Danny "needle and speed" Santana and predicted Franchy would be hitting 35 home runs out of the number 5 spot last year. So here's a not-rhetorical question - Why should anyone trust your take on Enrique Hernandez?

Meaning, on what facts (if any) do you base your analysis?

chawson · May 7, 2022

Rovin Romine said:
You also endlessly championed Danny "needle and speed" Santana and predicted Franchy would be hitting 35 home runs out of the number 5 spot last year. So here's a not-rhetorical question - Why should anyone trust your take on Enrique Hernandez?

Meaning, on what facts (if any) do you base your analysis?

I don’t have a “take” on Kiké Hernández beyond the 4.9 bWAR he put up last year. I’m sorry your personal binky Duran got demoted and won’t fulfill your wish fantasy of supplanting him as our center fielder.

We’ve all got certain players we’re excited about. Not all of them work out, and a lot of them get hurt. If you think my enthusiasm for Kiké Hernández, or to a lesser extent, Cordero and Santana is arbitrarily derived, I suggest you spend some more time with modern statistics. There’s a reason that Chaim Bloom — by all accounts a terrifically smart GM — acquired them, and it’s not for guys like you to rev up your little public mockery campaigns.

Rovin Romine · May 7, 2022

chawson said:
I don’t have a “take” on Kiké Hernández beyond the 4.9 bWAR he put up last year. I’m sorry your personal binky Duran got demoted and won’t fulfill your wish fantasy of supplanting him as our center fielder.

We’ve all got certain players we’re excited about. Not all of them work out, and a lot of them get hurt. If you think my enthusiasm for Kiké Hernández, or to a lesser extent, Cordero and Santana is arbitrarily derived, I suggest you spend some more time with modern statistics. There’s a reason that Chaim Bloom — by all accounts a terrifically smart GM — acquired them, and it’s not for guys like you to rev up your little public mockery campaigns.

No offense to Duran, but I'm not personally invested in him. What I'd like to see are effective players on the field. I don't care if it's him or Enrique Hernandez, or Franchy Cordero, or some AAAA flotsam that we grab who gets hot for us. It's not as though my personal sense of worth is tied up with amateur baseball predictions.

It sort of says it all that your analysis is "Hernandez put up a good WAR number." Bravo.

Sandy Leon Trotsky · May 7, 2022

chawson said:
I don’t have a “take” on Kiké Hernández beyond the 4.9 bWAR he put up last year. I’m sorry your personal binky Duran got demoted and won’t fulfill your wish fantasy of supplanting him as our center fielder.

We’ve all got certain players we’re excited about. Not all of them work out, and a lot of them get hurt. If you think my enthusiasm for Kiké Hernández, or to a lesser extent, Cordero and Santana is arbitrarily derived, I suggest you spend some more time with modern statistics. There’s a reason that Chaim Bloom — by all accounts a terrifically smart GM — acquired them, and it’s not for guys like you to rev up your little public mockery campaigns.

Whoa there bud.
Not defending anyone but if you’re going to use any “stats” to defend Kike, Santana and Cordero and throw Blooms signing of them as a shield…. Then those same stats can also clearly show that they would/could all be busts. So far Bloom hit on 2/4 of his projects in ‘21 - Kike and the RF with the arm whose name escapes me- but he’s whiffing across the board so far in ‘22- Wacha being a HR so far though.

JCizzle · May 7, 2022

jon abbey said:
What are your proposed 40 man moves for all these guys?

Can we start with Matt Barnes, Bobby Dalbec, and move from there? I’m struggling to see what value they bring to a major league roster. The team is about to be 10-17, I’m not sure why they’re worried about losing a decent number of these guys.

Cesar Crespo · May 7, 2022

JCizzle said:
Can we start with Matt Barnes, Bobby Dalbec, and move from there? I’m struggling to see what value they bring to a major league roster. The team is about to be 10-17, I’m not sure why they’re worried about losing a decent number of these guys.

10-18.

JCizzle · May 7, 2022

Cesar Crespo said:
10-18.

I’ll add JBJ to the list for good measure by missing a loss

jon abbey · May 7, 2022

JCizzle said:
Can we start with Matt Barnes, Bobby Dalbec, and move from there? I’m struggling to see what value they bring to a major league roster. The team is about to be 10-17, I’m not sure why they’re worried about losing a decent number of these guys.

Sure, I just think if you want someone brought up/brought in, you should propose the corresponding move also. Dalbec is easy because he has options, Barnes is trickier because he is signed for $9M+ for next season but maybe he will be willing to go on the phantom DL while he figures his shit out.

JCizzle · May 7, 2022

jon abbey said:
Sure, I just think if you want someone brought up/brought in, you should propose the corresponding move also. Dalbec is easy because he has options, Barnes is trickier because he is signed for $9M+ for next season but maybe he will be willing to go on the phantom DL while he figures his shit out.

I guess I'm being more pessimistic and asking why we should worry about keeping Barnes on the roster period versus cutting the sunk cost and DFA'ing him? I'm missing the value of keeping the status quo simply for "roster flexibility" that doesn't amount for much since the guys in question have zero trade value.

Petagine in a Bottle · May 7, 2022

You can DFA as many of these guys as you want, but who do you call up? Casas and Duran, sure. But there’s not a ton of major league ready talent in the system right now.

JCizzle · May 7, 2022

Petagine in a Bottle said:
You can DFA as many of these guys as you want, but who do you call up? Casas and Duran, sure. But there’s not a ton of major league ready talent in the system right now.

Seabold. Fitzgerald. Anyone who might develop either value for the trade deadline or be useful long term for the team.

Cesar Crespo · May 7, 2022

Petagine in a Bottle said:
You can DFA as many of these guys as you want, but who do you call up? Casas and Duran, sure. But there’s not a ton of major league ready talent in the system right now.

Could give Fitzgerald a chance too. Seabold. But yeah, those 4.

Ale Xander · May 7, 2022

Call up Casas, Duran, Fitzy, Seabold, CarMart, Darwinzon, Wong (DFA Plaw or trade CV), Danish, Ort

DFA/trade/faux 60 day IL what you can to fit the guys on the 40.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · May 7, 2022

Cesar Crespo said:
10-18.

The 2012 valentine disasters went 12-16 in their first 28.

Worse than Bobby V. That’s almost impressive.

Diamond Don Aase · May 7, 2022

Petagine in a Bottle said:
You can DFA as many of these guys as you want, but who do you call up? Casas and Duran, sure. But there’s not a ton of major league ready talent in the system right now.

Zack Kelly is 27 years old.

Eduard Bazardo, Kutter Crawford, and Connor Seabold are 26.

Brandon Walter is 25.

Frank German is 24.

Chris Murphy and Josh Winckowski turn 24 next month.

If the Red Sox cannot internally improve upon the likes of Ryan Brasier, Hansel Robles, and Phillips Valdez, then they do not have a developmental system but rather a graduate program for mound mediocrities facing batters often a half-decade younger.

Cesar Crespo · May 7, 2022

Ale Xander said:
Call up Casas, Duran, Fitzy, Seabold, CarMart, Darwinzon, Wong (DFA Plaw or trade CV), Danish, Ort

DFA/trade/faux 60 day IL what you can to fit the guys on the 40.

This is great. "make them fit." You mentioned calling up 9 players to the major league roster while DFAing or trading one.

So now you are just going to wish cast 8 players away off the 26 man roster. Do the work. Make them fit.

Petagine in a Bottle · May 7, 2022

Yeah, if the Sox are in it, everyone is in it. Their record is better than only the Tigers.

There won’t be a trade market for a while, I wouldn’t think, but seems like Bogaerts, Eovaldi, and Hernandez have the most potential value; of course, FA’s to be don’t return nearly as much as they used to. Good news is Sox need help everywhere, so could probably take back prospects at almost any position. Maybe try to staple Barnes to one of the guys with value?

Ale Xander · May 7, 2022

Cesar Crespo said:
This is great. "make them fit." You mentioned calling up 9 players to the major league roster while DFAing or trading one.

So now you are just going to wish cast 8 players away off the 26 man roster. Do the work. Make them fit.

Barnes/Davis/Diekman/Plaw/Sawumara/Brasier/Crawford

Cordero/Robles next if you need their spots.
Try to trade Enrique and Pivetta if you can.

Cesar Crespo · May 7, 2022

Petagine in a Bottle said:
Yeah, if the Sox are in it, everyone is in it. Their record is better than only the Tigers.

There won’t be a trade market for a while, I wouldn’t think, but seems like Bogaerts, Eovaldi, and Hernandez have the most potential value; of course, FA’s to be don’t return nearly as much as they used to. Good news is Sox need help everywhere, so could probably take back prospects at almost any position. Maybe try to staple Barnes to one of the guys with value?

Devers wouldn't be a rental. I know you didn't name him but it would have to be considered.

Petagine in a Bottle · May 7, 2022

Cesar Crespo said:
Devers wouldn't be a rental. I know you didn't name him but it would have to be considered.

Agree. I assume he may fetch more in the off-season, but perhaps not. Sadly, it needs to be investigated if they are going to pay market rate.

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