Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

Who you got?

  • Celtics in 4

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 18 4.6%
  • Celtics in 6

    Votes: 146 37.2%
  • Celtics in 7

    Votes: 127 32.4%
  • Warriors in 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Warriors in 5

    Votes: 23 5.9%
  • Warriors in 6

    Votes: 56 14.3%
  • Warriors in 7

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,205

Caspir

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
6,886
Fresh new Audemars as well.
The watch, luggage, tshirt and chain combo coming off an ECF Game 7 road win is top 5 nba drip. Most of these players look like they’re headed to the Met Gala with their off the wall outfits. JT keeps it very smooth.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,275
The watch, luggage, tshirt and chain combo coming off an ECF Game 7 road win is top 5 nba drip. Most of these players look like they’re headed to the Met Gala with their off the wall outfits. JT keeps it very smooth.
Tatum can definitely throw on some met gala off the wall fits sometimes but 80% of the time he keeps it simple and clean. 1st Team League Fits guy
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,016
Will these games actually tip off close to 9 pm (or, in some cases, 8 pm), or will we have to suffer through the pregame bullshit they threw out for the Eastern Conference Finals?
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,895
Los Angeles, CA
KD/Dray getting into Twitter pillow fight

Any chance KD is deep down rooting for the C's?
He's so insecure that this mega millionaire future HOFer gets into arguments with randoms on Twitter over his playing ability and legacy (and has used burners to do so in the past, at least).

OF COURSE he wants the Celtics to win.
 

Red Averages

owes you $50
SoSH Member
Apr 20, 2003
9,055
Tomorrow is going to be brutal waiting until 9pm for the game. Maybe a good excuse to get a post work, workout in while watching Titletown on YouTube.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,895
Los Angeles, CA
Zarba is awful. His crew officiated the atrocious ECF Game 6.

NBA announces referees for NBA Finals

Tony Brothers (11th Finals)
James Capers (11th)
Marc Davis (11th)
Kane Fitzgerald (4th)
Scott Foster (15th)
John Goble (6th)
David Guthrie (5th)
Courtney Kirkland (2nd)
Eric Lewis (4th)
Josh Tiven (3rd)
James Williams (2nd)
Zach Zarba (9th)
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,275
Zarba is awful. His crew officiated the atrocious ECF Game 6.

NBA announces referees for NBA Finals

Tony Brothers (11th Finals)
James Capers (11th)
Marc Davis (11th)
Kane Fitzgerald (4th)
Scott Foster (15th)
John Goble (6th)
David Guthrie (5th)
Courtney Kirkland (2nd)
Eric Lewis (4th)
Josh Tiven (3rd)
James Williams (2nd)
Zach Zarba (9th)
My god how is Eric Lewis reffing in the finals….that’s a sad sad statement on the state of officiating right now
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,391
My god how is Eric Lewis reffing in the finals….that’s a sad sad statement on the state of officiating right now
They’d be better off with a random whistle generator for his area of responsibility. I am hoping this match-up, which features fewer bully ball types, leads to better officiating (that is, they don’t become a central part of the story).
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,714
Hope the series is a happy as this Warriors Celtics interaction
Nice pull. Even though the details of that trade are forever lasered in my brain, I somehow forget to associate those Warriors (the ones that gifted us a HOF front court) with these Warriors, if you know what I mean.

Something I'd forgotten about:
Originally, Boston had hoped to lure Virginia's 7 foot 4 freshman Ralph Sampson out of college
That's an insane emphasis on the front court, especially given that Cowens hadn't yet surprised the team by retiring.

Also, you know you're reading a clipping from the early 80s when you're reading about "The expansion Dallas Mavericks drawing boos for drafting Kiki Vandeweghe"
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
27,957
Saskatoon Canada
The forward spot became so physical Cowens decline, as a but undersized meant he was done. He had huge problems with Chocolate Thunder in the playoffs. A guy I know got to meet Dr J and he talked about the Arms race for bigs. The Cs got Parish, so the Sixers had to get Moses.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
The forward spot became so physical Cowens decline, as a but undersized meant he was done. He had huge problems with Chocolate Thunder in the playoffs. A guy I know got to meet Dr J and he talked about the Arms race for bigs. The Cs got Parish, so the Sixers had to get Moses.
The Sixers had to deal with both Parish and Kareem, so Moses was acquired to deal with both. Paid off handsomely for them. Moses was a beast.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,494
The forward spot became so physical Cowens decline, as a but undersized meant he was done. He had huge problems with Chocolate Thunder in the playoffs. A guy I know got to meet Dr J and he talked about the Arms race for bigs. The Cs got Parish, so the Sixers had to get Moses.
God, Cowens would have made so much m8ney if he played today - I have no doubt he woyld have extended his jumper to tbe 3P line.

In fact, as I think about it, if you squint, Cowens and Al Horford have some similarities (I won;t say similar games).
 

Return of the Dewey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 17, 2001
3,108
Pants Party
The forward spot became so physical Cowens decline, as a but undersized meant he was done. He had huge problems with Chocolate Thunder in the playoffs. A guy I know got to meet Dr J and he talked about the Arms race for bigs. The Cs got Parish, so the Sixers had to get Moses.
Yeah, and the arms race finally ended a little after the 1984 draft when 7 foot Sam Bowie was picked over MJ.
 

Return of the Dewey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 17, 2001
3,108
Pants Party
God, Cowens would have made so much m8ney if he played today - I have no doubt he woyld have extended his jumper to tbe 3P line.

In fact, as I think about it, if you squint, Cowens and Al Horford have some similarities (I won;t say similar games).
Ralph Sampson would be a beast in today’s NBA. Taller version of TimeLord with a nice mid range jumper (which I have no doubt he could’ve extended to 3p line). Sorta like Embid I guess. The knock on him was his lack of great post game despite being 7’4. However that would fit right in to a team like Warriors, Celts etc.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,238
ESPN would have killed Bill Russell for only scoring 8 points in 48 minutes in Game 4.
3-9 from the field; 2-5FT; 5PF. The gamethread at Grandparents of Sam Horn would have been calling for Red's head for not giving Clyde Lovellette a few minutes instead of letting Russ go the whole 48.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,714
3-9 from the field; 2-5FT; 5PF. The gamethread at Grandparents of Sam Horn would have been calling for Red's head for not giving Clyde Lovellette a few minutes instead of letting Russ go the whole 48.
I also love the idea of averaging 25.2 rebounds per game for a series but finishing second to somebody else.
 

Dotrat

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 11, 2002
2,135
Morris County NJ
Good pluck.

That's a whole lotta future NBA titles in those opponent's resume.

Celts front line (Chief McHale, shadow of '86 Walton) was crippled with bad/broken wheels by the time they survived the Pistons and had to play Showtime.
The '86 Celtics and '87 Lakers were the best teams I've ever seen--That's always been my Fantasy Finals match-up.
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
8,848
NYC
Ralph Sampson would be a beast in today’s NBA. Taller version of TimeLord with a nice mid range jumper (which I have no doubt he could’ve extended to 3p line). Sorta like Embid I guess. The knock on him was his lack of great post game despite being 7’4. However that would fit right in to a team like Warriors, Celts etc.
Hmm, I was too young in Sampson’s day to have a much more detailed impression of him than, “he’s wicked tall,” but my sense is that a somewhat lumbering, high-center-of-gravity type like him would be absolutely roasted by the elite perimeter creators/shooters of the three ball era. Plus, I always got the sense he was kinda soft. Maybe something along the lines of a Kristaps?

Cowens by contrast seems to have had the quickness, coordination, and more normally-proportioned 6’-9” frame — à la Bam, Horford, Looney, Portis, et al. — that thrives in today’s NBA. Plus he was a tireless dog, which plays well in any era.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,494
Not a single voice in support of Jaylen Brown as the next most impactful player in the Finals (after Curry and Tatum). I would be thrilled if Golden State overlooks him like The Ringer writers did but somehow I doubt it.

https://www.theringer.com/2022/6/1/23149279/nba-finals-boston-celtics-golden-state-warriors
Thanks for posting. I agree with you that JB is being overlooked here. He should have some pretty good matchups to attack, unless - as one podcast mentioned - they start Wiggins on JB and Klay on JT since Klay isn't moving as well as he used to.

Article also mentions this: "In the past five seasons, Boston has allowed the fewest points per direct chance in the NBA when defending off-ball actions, according to Second Spectrum." That sounds super, but does anyone know what that really means?
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,475
Melrose, MA
Not a single voice in support of Jaylen Brown as the next most impactful player in the Finals (after Curry and Tatum). I would be thrilled if Golden State overlooks him like The Ringer writers did but somehow I doubt it.

https://www.theringer.com/2022/6/1/23149279/nba-finals-boston-celtics-golden-state-warriors
As weird as it seems I more or less think they are right.

In a series where Curry is best offensive player and most impactful player on the Warriors, the guy guarding him (Smart) becomes extremely impactful.

The Celtics aren't even here if Al Horford doesn't get them past the Bucks and he is the Celtic with the most to lose in a loss.

For the Celtics to roll out their best possible defense they need Rob to be able to play effectively.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,494
Hmm, I was too young in Sampson’s day to have a much more detailed impression of him than, “he’s wicked tall,” but my sense is that a somewhat lumbering, high-center-of-gravity type like him would be absolutely roasted by the elite perimeter creators/shooters of the three ball era. Plus, I always got the sense he was kinda soft. Maybe something along the lines of a Kristaps?
Funny, it sounds like people are comparing Victor Wembanyama to Sampson.

I think Ralph was way better than Kristaps. If Kristaps was playing in the pre-3P era, he'd probably be closer to Brad Sellers. Yes, Ralph could get pushed around, but he was getting pushed around by the likes of Moses and Parrish, not Marcus Smart. Also, no one in today's NBA would be guarding Ralph Sampson.

Taller version of TimeLord with a nice mid range jumper (which I have no doubt he could’ve extended to 3p line).
He's like TL without the quick leaping (but he didn't need it since he was 6 inches taller) and Sampson had a great handle too. Born too early.

Here's some video of Ralph (including a lot of finals video v Cs).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKctffMW7w4
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
Ralph Sampson would be a beast in today’s NBA. Taller version of TimeLord with a nice mid range jumper (which I have no doubt he could’ve extended to 3p line). Sorta like Embid I guess. The knock on him was his lack of great post game despite being 7’4. However that would fit right in to a team like Warriors, Celts etc.
Sampson was very skilled for a big man, he was nothing like Time Lord other than he was tall and lean. The description was always that he was 7'2(?) but handled the ball like a guard.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,714
Hmm, I was too young in Sampson’s day to have a much more detailed impression of him than, “he’s wicked tall,” but my sense is that a somewhat lumbering, high-center-of-gravity type like him would be absolutely roasted by the elite perimeter creators/shooters of the three ball era. Plus, I always got the sense he was kinda soft. Maybe something along the lines of a Kristaps?

Cowens by contrast seems to have had the quickness, coordination, and more normally-proportioned 6’-9” frame — à la Bam, Horford, Looney, Portis, et al. — that thrives in today’s NBA. Plus he was a tireless dog, which plays well in any era.
There was nothing lumbering about Sampson. He was probably the most agile of really, really tall guys ever. (Edit: it’s between him and Kareem, but Ralph was a better ball handler and two inches taller.)

What hindered Sampson—other than injuries— was the fact that he never developed any bread-and-butter offensive moves. He was so physically prodigious throughout college that he’d never needed to. That, plus he had this insistence on showing that he could play a guard’s game rather than just playing to his height.
 
Last edited:

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
5,870
Having TL back for this series, even if it's only for twenty minutes a game, is vital. There should be at least two days of rest between games, which will hopefully give him time to rest up. I hope he can stay out there.

Other big thing for me is how GSW handles the ball pressure and length the Celtics will bring on defense. Draymond, Curry, and Poole averaged almost 9 turnovers just by themselves. As a team GSW was second to last in TOV.

Celtics, of course, will face much the same issue. GSW getting Iguodala, Gary Payton II, and Otto Porter Jr back is a little scary, as Tatum and Brown can obviously be pretty loose with the ball themselves.
 

uk_sox_fan

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 11, 2006
1,273
London, England
Vivek Ranadive will likely be poaching anyone he can from Boston after the season is over. That's what I take away from this chart.
I looked up the overall HTH results (i.e. regardless of H/A) and the C's are the only franchise with a winning record over the W's and are one of 3 with a positive scoring margin:

Since 2015 (incl playoffs):
BOS 9-7 +63 +3.9/g
TOR 9-12 +45 +2.1/g
MIL 6-9 +15 +1.0/g
UTA 17-21 -32 -0.8/g
ATL 5-10 -35 -2.3/g
BRK 4-11 -43 -2.9/g
DET 4-11 -83 -5.5/g
MIA 5-11 -94 -5.9/g
PHI 4-12 -101 -6.3/g
LAL 11-20 -102 -3.3/g
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,275
Been hearing rumblings from a friend who does analytics for a Vegas book that lots of sharp money is coming in on the Celtics around town. This ESPN piece echoes that to some degree:

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/34024550/golden-state-warriors-driving-most-bets-win-game-1-nba-title-boston-celtics-drawing-underdog-interest
That makes sense. The models love the Celtics and a lot of the people picking against them are showing some major recency bias with that disastrous last 3 minutes against the Heat (even Zach Lowe admitted this himself before picking Warriors in 7)
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,714
The hyper-focus of the punditry on the C’s
offensive ineptitude during the final minutes of ECF G7 just seems overblown. It would be like picking the Manning-led Colts over the Pats circa 2003 because the NE had just advanced from an ugly rock-fight win over the Titans where they had bled the clock and barely held on to win. It might have been ugly vs Miami but those are the rules of engagement that the Heat impose
(to their credit). You can’t say that the same ugliness is going to carry over into the Finals while the Warriors are simultaneously playing a clean, wide-open style of basketball.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,057
Hingham, MA
The hyper-focus of the punditry on the C’s
offensive ineptitude during the final minutes of ECF G7 just seems overblown. It would be like picking the Manning-led Colts over the Pats circa 2003 because the NE had just advanced from an ugly rock-fight win over the Titans where they had bled the clock and barely held on to win. It might have been ugly vs Miami but those are the rules of engagement that the Heat impose
(to their credit). You can’t say that the same ugliness is going to carry over into the Finals while the Warriors are simultaneously playing a clean, wide-open style of basketball.
If Smart drills one of those three wide open looks that he missed, and the Heat never cut it to a one possession game, I wonder how the narrative changes.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,275
If Smart drills one of those three wide open looks that he missed, and the Heat never cut it to a one possession game, I wonder how the narrative changes.
It changes a lot. I don’t think there’s any question that the discourse has massively changed because of that
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,494