Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

Who you got?

  • Celtics in 4

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 18 4.6%
  • Celtics in 6

    Votes: 146 37.2%
  • Celtics in 7

    Votes: 127 32.4%
  • Warriors in 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Warriors in 5

    Votes: 23 5.9%
  • Warriors in 6

    Votes: 56 14.3%
  • Warriors in 7

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .

djbayko

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Another takeaway: It does not appear to me that Williams re-injured anything in the playoffs where the meniscus is concerned. This looks more like rehab at this point, where the extra rest in this series might allow him to move around well most of the time. Very positive development, if so.
Agreed. And with 2 days rest between games, this is big. @radsoxfan, any comments on what you saw?
 

lovegtm

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Some of Poole's as well as the other Warriors struggles are a direct function of the C's defensive pressure. The Grizzlies and Mavs played good defense vs Golden State but they don't have the same quality of personnel as Boston. This is not an easy match up for GS and especially Poole who can eat when he gets the right target. Not sure whom he can depend on beating looking across the C's rotation.
Yes, this was something I felt got lost in a lot of pre-series analysis that naively looked at Memphis or Dallas' defensive rating. Those are good defensive teams, but the Celtics are at another level when they lock in. They also play a defense that was basically designed to stop this version of the Warriors, so at their best, it makes things really tough.

I thought drop coverage against Steph was great, once Al and Rob started meeting him higher (Al was particularly good at this, although Rob got a block). The only real counter for Steph is to take them into the lane, or back it out and attack 1-on-1, with the goal of getting into the lane. The Celtics are confident that they can rotate behind that with size when it happens, so he wasn't getting easy layups on the times he did get through, even though he'll hit floaters at an ok clip.
 

lovegtm

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The Warriors stunted hard daring the Cs to make 3s. It worked until it didn't
Yup, and there will be games in this series where it works, and the Celtics don't make shots.

Teams have made this bet against the Celtics for 3 straight rounds now (actually, Brooklyn was the only one who really played straight up). The Celtics are just good enough at shooting that it's probably a losing bet over 7 games, but not sure what else you do, since it is effective in bottling up JB and JT when it works.
 

lovegtm

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Final thing I'll say about this game: man, it is a difference playing GS after Milwaukee and Miami. The physicality is like 2 notches lower on the Richter scale. Even when stuff is going badly, and the Warriors are playing good defense, they don't make you feel them.

Still think this will be a close series, but the physicality difference is night and day. Interested to see whether the Warriors start to get beat up as the series go on, since they may take significantly more attrition.

EDIT: this manifests when the Dubs are on offense too. They just don't have that guy you're worried about banging you in the paint and getting FTs. After playing Giannis and Jimmy, it's a crazy change. The Celtics clearly feel good about running Steph off the line and just figuring it out in rotation, because it's not going to end with layups and FTs by some physical freak.
 
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m0ckduck

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A sneaky key in this game was that Jordan Poole was horrendous. 2-7, 1-5 on 3s, only 9 points, 4 turnovers, -19. He's always bad on defense but you hope he can make up for it on offense. He didn't tonight. Tough night for @Sam Ray Not.
This is what jumped out at me as well: Poole was totally overmatched when asked to initiate the offense. I was surprised by the extent to which they had to run everything through Curry in order to get looks against the C's D. In related news, he finished 5-17 after the hot first quarter, so they might have a problem here with regards to fatigue. As others have noted— great is Steph is— this is where you feel better about the C's trying to contain a guy who is roughly my size, rather than an alien like Giannis or a player so adept at picking up fouls as Butler.
 
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benhogan

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Final thing I'll say about this game: man, it is a difference playing GS after Milwaukee and Miami. The physicality is like 2 notches lower on the Richter scale. Even when stuff is going badly, and the Warriors are playing good defense, they don't make you feel them.

Still think this will be a close series, but the physicality difference is night and day. Interested to see whether the Warriors start to get beat up as the series go on, since they may take significantly more attrition.

EDIT: this manifests when the Dubs are on offense too. They just don't have that guy you're worried about banging you in the paint and getting FTs. After playing Giannis and Jimmy, it's a crazy change. The Celtics clearly feel good about running Steph off the line and just figuring it out in rotation, because it's not going to end with layups and FTs by some physical freak.
Agreed. The Dubs on-ball pressure isn't nearly as brutal as Miami/Mil. Never felt like they were going to live-ball turnover Boston and run out some easy transition points. I need to go re-watch this game, see what happened with the Dubs zone, see where the C's breakdowns were in Q3 and the Dubs breakdowns were in Q4. The adjustments in Game 2 will be fun to see.

The Dubs really don't hunt out your weakest defender and back them down ala Bron/Jimmy/Giannis/KD. That's not how Curry/Klay/Poole roll. If Draymond or Wiggins is backing any of our littles down, ala Pritchard, that's a win defensively no matter the result. The human punching bag, Grant Williams, will play a lesser defensive role in this series, PP should get a lot of his minutes.

ALSO White needs to play more early, by the end of Q3 he had only played 20 of the 36 minutes. He's one of the better dribble penetrators on the team and is a very effective perimeter defender against their incessant movement. IME needs to figure out how to get two of three Smart/White/PP combo on the floor when Steph is out there. Having 2 BIGs play drop coverage will give Steph/Poole/Klay/Wiggins too much space to operate in. It's the complete inverse of the previous 3 Series from the EC.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Another takeaway: It does not appear to me that Williams re-injured anything in the playoffs where the meniscus is concerned. This looks more like rehab at this point, where the extra rest in this series might allow him to move around well most of the time. Very positive development, if so.
Rob took the jump ball to open the game. In at least the later games of the Heat series, Rob was starting but Al was taking the jump ball.
 

benhogan

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A sneaky key in this game was that Jordan Poole was horrendous. 2-7, 1-5 on 3s, only 9 points, 4 turnovers, -19. He's always bad on defense but you hope he can make up for it on offense. He didn't tonight. Tough night for @Sam Ray Not.
I doubt it will happen, but I hope nobody tries to spike on or run off @Sam Ray Not on this Board.

His insight on the Dubs is very helpful for understanding what adjustments Kerr may make.
 

joe dokes

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Yes, this was something I felt got lost in a lot of pre-series analysis that naively looked at Memphis or Dallas' defensive rating. Those are good defensive teams, but the Celtics are at another level when they lock in. They also play a defense that was basically designed to stop this version of the Warriors, so at their best, it makes things really tough.

I thought drop coverage against Steph was great, once Al and Rob started meeting him higher (Al was particularly good at this, although Rob got a block). The only real counter for Steph is to take them into the lane, or back it out and attack 1-on-1, with the goal of getting into the lane. The Celtics are confident that they can rotate behind that with size when it happens, so he wasn't getting easy layups on the times he did get through, even though he'll hit floaters at an ok clip.
They *are* confident. I think they were just tentative/not entirely confident yet early in the game.
I'm repeating myself, but there's no scout team preparation for Curry. And a series gives a not-panicking team time to figure shit out.
 

lovegtm

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They *are* confident. I think they were just tentative/not entirely confident yet early in the game.
I'm repeating myself, but there's no scout team preparation for Curry. And a series gives a not-panicking team time to figure shit out.
This is true, and big. There's a lot of stuff about him that you just have to play against to get used to, but once you do, it's more manageable.

In some ways, Curry hitting all those early 3s reminds me of one of those games where Giannis got to the line a bunch, and the Celtics won anyway. It's the thing you're afraid of, it happens, and it's like "oh, ok, that's what it feels like." The fear can be worse than the actual experience, and there are ways to clean it up.
 

lovegtm

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Agreed. The Dubs on-ball pressure isn't nearly as brutal as Miami/Mil. Never felt like they were going to live-ball turnover Boston and run out some easy transition points. I need to go re-watch this game, see what happened with the Dubs zone, see where the C's breakdowns were in Q3 and the Dubs breakdowns were in Q4. The adjustments in Game 2 will be fun to see.

The Dubs really don't hunt out your weakest defender and back them down ala Bron/Jimmy/Giannis/KD. That's not how Curry/Klay/Poole roll. If Draymond or Wiggins is backing any of our littles down, ala Pritchard, that's a win defensively no matter the result. The human punching bag, Grant Williams, will play a lesser defensive role in this series, PP should get a lot of his minutes.

ALSO White needs to play more early, by the end of Q3 he had only played 20 of the 36 minutes. He's one of the better dribble penetrators on the team and is a very effective perimeter defender against their incessant movement. IME needs to figure out how to get two of three Smart/White/PP combo on the floor when Steph is out there. Having 2 BIGs play drop coverage will give Steph/Poole/Klay/Wiggins too much space to operate in. It's the complete inverse of the previous 3 Series from the EC.
Yeah, if GSW wants to mismatch hunt PP with Steph/Klay/Poole, it's going to be a short series. They'll have better counters than that though.

DWhite and PP need to play a lot more in this series. Theis needs to be stapled to the bench. And I love Grant, but he's going to see a minutes reduction too.
 

joe dokes

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This is true, and big. There's a lot of stuff about him that you just have to play against to get used to, but once you do, it's more manageable.

In some ways, Curry hitting all those early 3s reminds me of one of those games where Giannis got to the line a bunch, and the Celtics won anyway. It's the thing you're afraid of, it happens, and it's like "oh, ok, that's what it feels like." The fear can be worse than the actual experience, and there are ways to clean it up.
And from the couch, they have Smart, Ime and Horford leading aggressively on both the "here's what we need to do" "and don't worry, well get this" fronts. At no point did they look despondent. Just tentative.
(I was mostly on radio in the 3rd q, but I assume it was generally the same).
 

joe dokes

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Yeah, if GSW wants to mismatch hunt PP with Steph/Klay/Poole, it's going to be a short series. They'll have better counters than that though.

DWhite and PP need to play a lot more in this series. Theis needs to be stapled to the bench. And I love Grant, but he's going to see a minutes reduction too.
Horford only played 33 minutes. He was on fire late, but he probably has a few more in him. I can't see RWill going more than the 24 he did last night, though.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, if GSW wants to mismatch hunt PP with Steph/Klay/Poole, it's going to be a short series. They'll have better counters than that though.

DWhite and PP need to play a lot more in this series. Theis needs to be stapled to the bench. And I love Grant, but he's going to see a minutes reduction too.
Yea staple and duct tape Daniel Theis to the pine. As others have said, TL looked much more mobile. That's huge in the short and long term. I'm also hoping IME plays TL and Horford separately more in this series to lessen Grant/Theis minutes

Grant has a certain, very important role against many teams (Jokic, KD, Giannis, etc). But GSW is a very bad match-up for him. If GSW ever feeds the ball to Looney or Dray in the halfcourt you welcome that development and let them operate/shoot. I don't want an overzealous Grant bumping them and fouling
 

Eddie Jurak

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Horford only played 33 minutes. He was on fire late, but he probably has a few more in him. I can't see RWill going more than the 24 he did last night, though.
I think Theis played a bit because Rob is limited (even without an official minutes restriction) and this is not a Grant series. But the way this game worked out, no one on the Celtics played crazy minutes. Tatum played 42, one more than his playoff average. Brown 38. Horford 33. White 32. Smart 30. Rob 24, Grant and Payton 16 each. With the extra day, the Celtics will head into game 2 well rested.
 

lovegtm

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I think Theis played a bit because Rob is limited (even without an official minutes restriction) and this is not a Grant series. But the way this game worked out, no one on the Celtics played crazy minutes. Tatum played 42, one more than his playoff average. Brown 38. Horford 33. White 32. Smart 30. Rob 24, Grant and Payton 16 each. With the extra day, the Celtics will head into game 2 well rested.
I get the rest needed for Al and Rob, but what is Theis providing against GSW that Grant doesn't? I don't really see it.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I get the rest needed for Al and Rob, but what is Theis providing against GSW that Grant doesn't? I don't really see it.
A second big when Rob, Grant or Al, and another starter is resting. At least that was the case yesterday. Ime may need to rework his rotations a bit to shift Theis minutes to White.
 

lovegtm

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A second big when Rob, Grant or Al, and another starter is resting. At least that was the case yesterday. Ime may need to rework his rotations a bit to shift Theis minutes to White.
Totally; the bolded is what I was getting at.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I think Theis played a bit because Rob is limited (even without an official minutes restriction) and this is not a Grant series. But the way this game worked out, no one on the Celtics played crazy minutes. Tatum played 42, one more than his playoff average. Brown 38. Horford 33. White 32. Smart 30. Rob 24, Grant and Payton 16 each. With the extra day, the Celtics will head into game 2 well rested.
I think Ime was playing Theis to see what he can get out of him, particularly since this series isn't as physical. I think Theis will play sporadically, probably in specific lineup matchups that we'll see.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Grant continues to look flat---not only is not a very good matchup for him, but he has seemed worn down the last 5ish games. As I noted in game thread, I think PP has a role this series---he can chase Poole or Curry effectively and those guys won't punish his size, while his shooting is very helpful at offensive end. Guessing Celts stay small-ish and he and White pick up many of the minutes Grant/Theis got in second halves of prior series.

Starters, White, PP may be the top seven with Grant slotting in for 10-15 minutes a game especially if there's a push from GS on the boards?
 

lovegtm

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I do wonder what this game looks like from the GSW perspective.

I mean, they had long stretches where they were doing exactly what they wanted and it worked exactly how they would want and it was not enough. So what do they do? For all the shit Draymond Green is taking for his revisionist history of the game, the funny thing about it to me is that it is such a passive read of the situation -- like he has no solutions that are within his control and are not just hoping the Celtics play differently.
Yeah, a big problem here is that, pre-series, people were making a big deal about how much their off-ball movement would challenge the Celtics, and how GSW would react if that were shut off. The Celtics shut it off, and it's a problem.

Had the Celtics lost, I think they'd be looking at their miscommunications that let Steph free and the 3rd quarter offensive rebounds, and they'd be confident they could fix it going forward.

For GSW...man, I don't know. Maybe more zone, maybe wait for the Celtics to regress from 3.....Draymond recognizes that the options aren't great.

It's early, and I won't be triumphalist after one game. I remember 2019 Boston-Milwaukee. However, I will say that "changing of the guard" series often look like this.
 

NomarsFool

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PPs shooting would really help. I was thrilled to see all of Whites 3P going in but not thrilled that he was the one who had to take them. I’m not saying PP instead of White, Whites penetration against the zone is critical. But I want an absolute lock down shooter on the floor who will savagely punish the Warriors for doubling Tatum,
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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A sneaky key in this game was that Jordan Poole was horrendous. 2-7, 1-5 on 3s, only 9 points, 4 turnovers, -19. He's always bad on defense but you hope he can make up for it on offense. He didn't tonight. Tough night for @Sam Ray Not.
He was terrible on defense, Duncan Robinson bad. Every time the Cs saw Poole in front of them, I think they scored. I think he's going to be tough to play in this series.
Final thing I'll say about this game: man, it is a difference playing GS after Milwaukee and Miami. The physicality is like 2 notches lower on the Richter scale. Even when stuff is going badly, and the Warriors are playing good defense, they don't make you feel them.
Yeah, the Cs must be loving the lack of physicality from GSW compared to MIL and MIA. However, it seems like in past history, every time the finesse teams loses G1, they come out and become extra physical. I wonder if GSW has it in them.
Yeah, if GSW wants to mismatch hunt PP with Steph/Klay/Poole, it's going to be a short series. They'll have better counters than that though.
I haven't seen any of GSW this season so I was pleasantly surprised that PP held up against Poole. That's super helpful in terms of matchups.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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PPs shooting would really help. I was thrilled to see all of Whites 3P going in but not thrilled that he was the one who had to take them. I’m not saying PP instead of White, Whites penetration against the zone is critical. But I want an absolute lock down shooter on the floor who will savagely punish the Warriors for doubling Tatum,
White's defense on Steph was amazing. I definitely don't want PP chasing around Curry for any substantial portion of the game. Super happy to see White hitting some 3Ps.
 

RorschachsMask

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That contested 3 White hit is when I felt like the game was ours. But how Jaylen came out to start the 4th is what really turned it around, not just the made baskets, but had 5 assists in the quarter as well. Him and Tatum were both ass shooting the ball through 3, Jaylen being able to overcome that was awesome.

If you’re going to shoot like crap, you better heavily contribute elsewhere, and that’s what Tatum did last night. Warriors shot 3-10 against him, and he had 19 potential assists with only 2 turnovers. Last night showed his value in a weird way, even when not hitting shots, he completely warped the warriors defense. Him being a +16 felt right, even with the horrid shooting.

There’s not enough positive I can say about Al and White, they were by far our most consistent players yesterday, and were monsters in the 4th. Eff a pick swap, White is big time.
 
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lovegtm

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I haven't seen any of GSW this season so I was pleasantly surprised that PP held up against Poole. That's super helpful in terms of matchups.
This is something I've been on about with PP for awhile. He's not Kemba/IT -- he is only really a liability against very strong guys who can take him deep in the post and shoot over, or Durant types who just shoot over if you're too small. His lateral quickness is very good, and he's not easy to blow by. Poole and Curry are great assignments for him -- not that he's a Steph-stopper, just that the matchup plays to his strengths.

The only "just shoot it over you" guy GS really has is Klay, so we'll see whether they use him to attack PP. They've done it in the past, but doing it too much really takes them out of who they are offensively.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Yeah, a big problem here is that, pre-series, people were making a big deal about how much their off-ball movement would challenge the Celtics, and how GSW would react if that were shut off. The Celtics shut it off, and it's a problem.

Had the Celtics lost, I think they'd be looking at their miscommunications that let Steph free and the 3rd quarter offensive rebounds, and they'd be confident they could fix it going forward.

For GSW...man, I don't know. Maybe more zone, maybe wait for the Celtics to regress from 3.....Draymond recognizes that the options aren't great.

It's early, and I won't be triumphalist after one game. I remember 2019 Boston-Milwaukee. However, I will say that "changing of the guard" series often look like this.
The Warriors essentially let Horford and White shoot a lot. I think that was a similar strategy to what the Celtics and their opponents have done at various times. If they have change things up to cover them, that will mean exposing something else.

I thought Golden State made an effective early adjustment getting Wiggins onto Brown (or did Wiggins have Brown all game?), which the Celtics were not really able to exploit in the second and third quarters, but that type of adjustment will not work forever againt this Celtic team.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This is something I've been on about with PP for awhile. He's not Kemba/IT -- he is only really a liability against very strong guys who can take him deep in the post and shoot over, or Durant types who just shoot over if you're too small. His lateral quickness is very good, and he's not easy to blow by. Poole and Curry are great assignments for him -- not that he's a Steph-stopper, just that the matchup plays to his strengths.

The only "just shoot it over you" guy GS really has is Klay, so we'll see whether they use him to attack PP. They've done it in the past, but doing it too much really takes them out of who they are offensively.
I think that, to the extent he is a liability, it is that teams can hunt him as a matchup, and the Celtics defense plays with that in mind, either trying to deny the mismatch or scram him out of it, instead of other things the defense could be doing. But he's anything but a turnstile.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If you are GS you certainly expect Celts 3 pt shooting to regress some---as we've talked about throughout the playoffs, the Celtics are almost unbeatable when they shoot 45%+ on threes. And that will not hapen every game (or at least, if it does GS does not really have an answer). GS focused on Tatum, and he found the open men who hit their shots. I don't know that GS makes big defensive changes, even giving up 120 points....betting on role players missing still seems smarter than betting on Tatum not producing. They could mix it up more, with some Wiggins one on one on Tatum and some more zone?

GS surely would like to have someone other than Curry who can generate a quality look in the half-court----I know a lot of what they do is motion and cuts and one of the things we saw in the 4th quarter is that no one else could generate their own offense, and Steph went cold. Poole is capable of it but didn't produce and was essentially run off the court defensively. I'm not sure what they have there, though----they are in a negative matchup at every spot (Klay is great, but he's not truly a plus option vs Boston defense; Green is terrible offensively; Looney is not a shot-generator; Wiggins maybe? He flashed in first half. Poole and playing a zone to hide him?) That is the big offensive thing they need to figure out.
 

Strike4

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The great takeaway from that game for me is the wealth of tools the Celtics have left with which to make adjustments to whatever the Warriors try in Game 2. If they just had a game where Tatum went off or something like that feeling would be less so.
 

joe dokes

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I think Ime was playing Theis to see what he can get out of him, particularly since this series isn't as physical. I think Theis will play sporadically, probably in specific lineup matchups that we'll see.
Right. And as bad as he looked in his 6 minutes, he hit a 3 that left him only as a -3 while he was out there. I know what that means over extended time, but he didn't get extended time. Just enough to not over extend RWil and Horford early. Ultimately, Theis may not work out in this series, but to be fair to him, he never got the adjustment time ("oh shit, so this is what its like to actually play them") that the 30-40 minute guys got.
 

DJnVa

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Random crap--where was Van Gundy last night? Not that I really missed him.

I don't always listen to the broadcasters, but the few times I unmuted last night, Mark Jackson was dropping the same pearl of wisdom--"If I was the Celtics I'd really pay attention to Curry here." No shit Mark? Thanks.

FAKE EDIT: Breen and Van Gundy in COVID protocols.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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One thing about Klay. I have always been a super-admirer of his game but - and I'm sure this is a function of the achilles tear since it's true for KD as well - it looks like his lateral movement has been really reduced, particularly on defense. Injuries suck but it looks like Klay is a mismatch against JB. I wonder if GSW puts Klay on Tatum since Tatum isn't as quick as JB is.

one of the things we saw in the 4th quarter is that no one else could generate their own offense, and Steph went cold. Poole is capable of it but didn't produce and was essentially run off the court defensively.
Draymond can point to our role players getting hot from 3P but Porter and Iguadola also went 5-6 from 3P land, which hopefully isn't going to last. (I still have nightmares from the 3Ps that Iguadola hit against BOS in the bubble when he was shooting something like 20% on 3Ps up to then). And while Wiggins only shot 2-7 from 3P (I honestly thought it was better than that), he was 6-8 from 2P.

I think BOS's defense takes away a good portion of the easy baskets that GSW usually gets. GSW doesn't really have any ISO players other than Steph and Poole so if BOS can contain them, it will be interesting to see where GSW goes for defense. Wiggins obviously tried to create some - he took more shots than Klay.

Kerr has to see if Kuminga or Moody can make a difference IMO. I wonder if he tries one or both of them in G2.
 

benhogan

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Grant continues to look flat---not only is not a very good matchup for him, but he has seemed worn down the last 5ish games. As I noted in game thread, I think PP has a role this series---he can chase Poole or Curry effectively and those guys won't punish his size, while his shooting is very helpful at offensive end. Guessing Celts stay small-ish and he and White pick up many of the minutes Grant/Theis got in second halves of prior series.

Starters, White, PP may be the top seven with Grant slotting in for 10-15 minutes a game especially if there's a push from GS on the boards?
Giannis beat the stuffing out of Grant, probably concussion level beatdowns with some of those elbows, charges and rim runs.

Obviously White will have a massive role but PP should have a much bigger role in this series than GW. 10-15mins seems about right. Also Grant is a mediocre/bad rebounder and offensive boards is basically Dray/Looney's role. Going into this series we knew Grant was a bad fit (along with Theis) and nothing last night told us other. Unless this thing gets real physical, doubt it does, going 2 PGs on the floor at the same time should be a thing.
 

bigq

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But how Jaylen came out to start the 4th is what really turned it around, not just the made baskets, but had 5 assists in the quarter as well. Him and Tatum were both ass shooting the ball through 3, Jaylen being able to overcome that was awesome.
It has been thrilling to see him starring in the King of the 4th role this postseason. His strong play in the final 12 minutes has been a sneaky great story line of these playoffs. I’d love to see it continue.
 

CreightonGubanich

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Dec 13, 2006
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north shore, MA
Yes, this was something I felt got lost in a lot of pre-series analysis that naively looked at Memphis or Dallas' defensive rating. Those are good defensive teams, but the Celtics are at another level when they lock in. They also play a defense that was basically designed to stop this version of the Warriors, so at their best, it makes things really tough.

I thought drop coverage against Steph was great, once Al and Rob started meeting him higher (Al was particularly good at this, although Rob got a block). The only real counter for Steph is to take them into the lane, or back it out and attack 1-on-1, with the goal of getting into the lane. The Celtics are confident that they can rotate behind that with size when it happens, so he wasn't getting easy layups on the times he did get through, even though he'll hit floaters at an ok clip.
The clip of Marcus Smart on the sideline talking about how this isn't the Heat series, and the bigs need to pick Steph up higher on the pick and roll was awesome. Once they started getting out to the line to bother Steph's shot a bit, then retreating, the Warriors had no choice but to play the mismatch game, which is exactly what the Celtics want. They're counting on being able to withstand some possessions with Steph going one on one against Grant or Rob, and I think they're right.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Yeah, a big problem here is that, pre-series, people were making a big deal about how much their off-ball movement would challenge the Celtics, and how GSW would react if that were shut off. The Celtics shut it off, and it's a problem.

Had the Celtics lost, I think they'd be looking at their miscommunications that let Steph free and the 3rd quarter offensive rebounds, and they'd be confident they could fix it going forward.

For GSW...man, I don't know. Maybe more zone, maybe wait for the Celtics to regress from 3.....Draymond recognizes that the options aren't great.

It's early, and I won't be triumphalist after one game. I remember 2019 Boston-Milwaukee. However, I will say that "changing of the guard" series often look like this.
It's one game. We asked in the Mil series what could Milwaukee possibly do to adjust given their limitations and the answers on this board were few. Yet they took it to seven games. We wondered what in the world Miami could do once Butler looked diminished and we had no good reasons why the Heat could win. Yet they took it to seven games and were one Butler three pointer away from winning the series.

If anyone here thinks that Golden State doesn't have possible answers here, or that there might be no real way for the Warriors to win this series, they're absolutely nuts. Boston may be better, and it sure seems like they're a good matchup against GS, but the Warriors are really, really, really good and until the fourth quarter - when Boston made every single shot they took just about - GS was in control of the game.

I'm giddy about a game 1 win, make no mistake. But there's a LONG way to go.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
This might have been the best officiated game since the 80s. I don’t understand why it can’t be like this, let them play and call the obvious stuff. The flow was amazing, excluding halftime the game was 2 hours. I know there were tons of 3s, which makes it easier for officials, but we’ve seen plenty of these still turn into slogs. Great pace, action, and drama…from the players. I imagine neutral observers loved it.
The flow of the game was a function of the Warriors style of play with little physicality…..not the refs.

As others have noted, this is not a good matchup for Grant or the 2BIGZ.

What I find amusing is that the publics perception is that the Warriors spread the floor with shooters everywhere……when in reality they play Draymond and Looney (and Wiggins) together a lot.

But the real reason I came here was to show this…..

3DC804AE-CCA2-4D39-93BF-19CDBC50B5FA.jpeg
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,191
Do we think GS will try to push pace more? That is the other way to juice the offense and play to their strengths a bit.

They are not a huge trapping/pressing team but you wonder if they might throw some of that in, especially with their bench unit (perhaps trying Kuminga/Moody as part of those units?) If i were Kerr I'd be trying to figure out how to generate more points from anyone not named "Steph Curry"
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
He was terrible on defense, Duncan Robinson bad. Every time the Cs saw Poole in front of them, I think they scored. I think he's going to be tough to play in this series.
He's a tough play in any playoff series. He's a turnstile.

Not sure he's that much different than Michael Porter. Or IT4. Dude can definitely score effectively but everyone he guards scores even more effectively.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
11,997
It's one game. We asked in the Mil series what could Milwaukee possibly do to adjust given their limitations and the answers on this board were few. Yet they took it to seven games. We wondered what in the world Miami could do once Butler looked diminished and we had no good reasons why the Heat could win. Yet they took it to seven games and were one Butler three pointer away from winning the series.

If anyone here thinks that Golden State doesn't have possible answers here, or that there might be no real way for the Warriors to win this series, they're absolutely nuts. Boston may be better, and it sure seems like they're a good matchup against GS, but the Warriors are really, really, really good and until the fourth quarter - when Boston made every single shot they took just about - GS was in control of the game.

I'm giddy about a game 1 win, make no mistake. But there's a LONG way to go.
I mean, the adjustment for Milwaukee was "hit all 3s while the Celtics collapse in the 4th quarter of game 5". The Miami adjustment was "have Butler make a miraculous recovery from injury and be amazing while Rob and Smart were limited."

Shooting luck is real (some games will likely swing based on that), and injuries are real. I'm thinking more in terms of actual strategy adjustments. The fact that I don't see them doesn't mean they're not there, but I don't see a ton off the top of my head.

The most likely GSW adjustment for game 2 is "do the same stuff but with way more intensity/force", which is often the best game 2 adjustment a team can make in the playoffs.
 

ragnarok725

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2003
6,364
Somerville MA
PPs shooting would really help. I was thrilled to see all of Whites 3P going in but not thrilled that he was the one who had to take them. I’m not saying PP instead of White, Whites penetration against the zone is critical. But I want an absolute lock down shooter on the floor who will savagely punish the Warriors for doubling Tatum,
A Derrick White who is hitting his threes may be the 3rd best player on the Celtics. He's just so good at everything else. I think he's a better match-up for Curry than even Marcus on the defensive side, because he's quicker and moves around screens a bit better.

I think we're going to see more of lineups that are using 2 of White/Smart/PP, since it's clear that was giving the Warriors fits on both sides with offensive spacing and defensive quickness.
 

Mooch

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,494
Do we think GS will try to push pace more? That is the other way to juice the offense and play to their strengths a bit.

They are not a huge trapping/pressing team but you wonder if they might throw some of that in, especially with their bench unit (perhaps trying Kuminga/Moody as part of those units?) If i were Kerr I'd be trying to figure out how to generate more points from anyone not named "Steph Curry"
Here's the main issue with that. This is an older Warriors team with a TON of mileage on their key guys. If you're going to ask Curry, Klay and Draymond to exert that much energy just to create baskets, you may see more than one 4th quarter fade in this series. That, to me, is the Golden State weakness: They haven't been this deep in the playoffs since their key players were quite a bit younger. Maintaining that energy and intensity with 32-34 year olds is no easy task.

This actually reminds me a bit of that 1990-1991 Lakers team who lost to the Bulls 4-1. Magic and Worthy looked OLD in that series against a younger and hungrier team.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,499
This is something I've been on about with PP for awhile. He's not Kemba/IT -- he is only really a liability against very strong guys who can take him deep in the post and shoot over, or Durant types who just shoot over if you're too small. His lateral quickness is very good, and he's not easy to blow by. Poole and Curry are great assignments for him -- not that he's a Steph-stopper, just that the matchup plays to his strengths.

The only "just shoot it over you" guy GS really has is Klay, so we'll see whether they use him to attack PP. They've done it in the past, but doing it too much really takes them out of who they are offensively.
Yeah, PP competes hard on defense despite his limitations, which is more than Kemba did. Kemba saved all his energy for the offensive end. In some senses, just competing is important to keep the defense cohesive.

BTW, I personally find that to be annoying when I play with guys like that so maybe I'm biased against it.
 

ragnarok725

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2003
6,364
Somerville MA
I mean, the adjustment for Milwaukee was "hit all 3s while the Celtics collapse in the 4th quarter of game 5". The Miami adjustment was "have Butler make a miraculous recovery from injury and be amazing while Rob and Smart were limited."

Shooting luck is real (some games will likely swing based on that), and injuries are real. I'm thinking more in terms of actual strategy adjustments. The fact that I don't see them doesn't mean they're not there, but I don't see a ton off the top of my head.

The most likely GSW adjustment for game 2 is "do the same stuff but with way more intensity/force", which is often the best game 2 adjustment a team can make in the playoffs.
A few potential areas for GSW to try...
  • More off-ball screening to get switches on to the quick shooters. We saw some down success for them where their big would set a down screen and our big didn't switch and move fast enough to prevent the catch and shoot (I'm thinking of a Klay play from the corner specifically).
  • More active hands and aggression on defense as the ball passes half-court, looking to cause TOs and get the fast break going. This was what killed the Cs in the Heat series. The Warriors need more easy baskets and this feels like the most likely source.
  • Mix in more back-cuts for Klay and Steph. The Cs have been playing the denial pretty heavily. It seems like they started off by protecting the rim more, but not sure how many cuts to the basket the Warriors were even attempting late in the game.
  • More Steph switches on to bigs, followed by drive, pass, and attack close-outs. The bigs started getting real up on Steph after being switched on him in the second half. He should be able to blow by and put the Cs in rotation. When he did drive he was mostly looking for shots which were floaters or mediocre looks. If he can find lanes to kick and put the Cs in rotation, the Warriors will find open outside shots eventually.
I don't know. I'm not sure any of those are real. But they could add up.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,112
Santa Monica
The flow of the game was a function of the Warriors style of play with little physicality…..not the refs.

As others have noted, this is not a good matchup for Grant or the 2BIGZ.

What I find amusing is that the publics perception is that the Warriors spread the floor with shooters everywhere……when in reality they play Draymond and Looney (and Wiggins) together a lot.

But the real reason I came here was to show this…..

View attachment 52142
Warriors are 1-8 in their last 9 Finals games without KD...o_O

I'm here for Durant tweeting Dray
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,392
I mean, the adjustment for Milwaukee was "hit all 3s while the Celtics collapse in the 4th quarter of game 5". The Miami adjustment was "have Butler make a miraculous recovery from injury and be amazing while Rob and Smart were limited."

Shooting luck is real (some games will likely swing based on that), and injuries are real. I'm thinking more in terms of actual strategy adjustments. The fact that I don't see them doesn't mean they're not there, but I don't see a ton off the top of my head.

The most likely GSW adjustment for game 2 is "do the same stuff but with way more intensity/force", which is often the best game 2 adjustment a team can make in the playoffs.
i think this is right on adjustments. I can’t see GS changing their defensive approach on Tatum, for instance, because you’ll live with the secondary guys having to make their shots. And their offense had them up 12 with 12 to go, which is a game you win 95%+ of the time. The adjustment to me was the Celts learning to deal with the speed and suddenness of Curry, which they did well after Q1. If they manage that again in G2, then Thompson, Wiggins, Poole will need to make more tough shots or break down the D with drives and kicks.