Offseason Rumors/News

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
8,848
NYC
He may get easier assignments, but teams definitely try attacking him, and it doesn’t really work.

He’s a REALLY smart defensive player.
Yeah. He's also gotten really strong in his 30s, so trying to bully him on either end of the floor doesn't work like it used to.
 

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
5,200
Lynn
Yeah. He's also gotten really strong in his 30s, so trying to bully him on either end of the floor doesn't work like it used to.
Yeah I should have phrased that better, I meant that teams try to force switches so they can attack Steph on the defensive end. But….it doesn’t really work.

It’s a credit to him, especially because I still see people try to make him sound like a bad defender.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,951
Isle of Plum
Yeah I should have phrased that better, I meant that teams try to force switches so they can attack Steph on the defensive end. But….it doesn’t really work.

It’s a credit to him, especially because I still see people try to make him sound like a bad defender.
He also gets attacked out of pure desperation, in the theory that calories burned on D won’t be used on O. Didn’t love how that played out most recently, but even if he’s holding up it’s still probably the right choice to keep going at him.
 

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
5,200
Lynn
thanks for posting

most defensive metrics are pretty questionable but that list is about as good as it gets (matches the eye test)
What I do when I see something like that, is go and check the matchup difficulty on bball index. Then I just use a combination of that, the numbers from above, and eye test.

Tatum and Rob both being that good defensively is insane.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,014
Imaginationland
Yeah. He's also gotten really strong in his 30s, so trying to bully him on either end of the floor doesn't work like it used to.
He's usually the weak point of the Warriors' D in the same way that Derrick White is the weak point of the Celtics' D. He isn't an all defense level point guard, but he hasn't been a liability on that end in forever.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
Yeah I should have phrased that better, I meant that teams try to force switches so they can attack Steph on the defensive end. But….it doesn’t really work.

It’s a credit to him, especially because I still see people try to make him sound like a bad defender.
He has never been a bad defender. He has had periods of slightly below average, but for most of his career has has been an above average defender. Harden should be taking whatever shit goes Steph's way for bad defense. His DARKO graph is pretty gross.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
thanks for posting

most defensive metrics are pretty questionable but that list is about as good as it gets (matches the eye test)
Yeah it's a pretty reliable list of on-ball awesomeness. Doesn't tell the off-ball story, but it sure as shit passes the eyeball test for on ball stoppers.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
If the bar is "better than Kornet" Brad may have unearthed something

Attached his NBA/Knick highlight reel

Looks like he can move/has agility. Hopefully, he shows up in the best shape of his life

Vonleh will join a group that includes Matt Ryan, Bruno Cabloco, Juwan Morgan, (potentially Juhann Bergarin) the two-way contract players (J.D. Davison and Mfiondu Kabengele) for the final 2-3 roster spots.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/8/2/23288767/noah-vonleh-boston-celtics-what-to-expect-good-fit-robert-williams-al-horford
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
maybe the Celtics didn't offer Brown +White + pick for KD?

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-nets/kevin-durant-to-meet-joe-tsai-trade-demand/

There was a recent report that the Nets had weeks ago turned down an offer of Jaylen Brown, Derrick White and a first round pick from the Celtics, but others have disputed to Heavy that such a proposal was ever truly on the table.

A personnel exec from another club expressed disappointment with the process.

“I think there’s some teams that aren’t very happy that when they talk to Brooklyn it gets in the papers,” he said. “That doesn’t help. I’ve talked with a couple of teams that are not happy with the rumors that creep out of there through all this. It’s not a good way to do business.”

Unless, perhaps, the Nets are trying to roil the waters in Boston and damage the relationship with Brown.
 

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
5,200
Lynn
maybe the Celtics didn't offer Brown +White + pick for KD?

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-nets/kevin-durant-to-meet-joe-tsai-trade-demand/

There was a recent report that the Nets had weeks ago turned down an offer of Jaylen Brown, Derrick White and a first round pick from the Celtics, but others have disputed to Heavy that such a proposal was ever truly on the table.

A personnel exec from another club expressed disappointment with the process.

“I think there’s some teams that aren’t very happy that when they talk to Brooklyn it gets in the papers,” he said. “That doesn’t help. I’ve talked with a couple of teams that are not happy with the rumors that creep out of there through all this. It’s not a good way to do business.”

Unless, perhaps, the Nets are trying to roil the waters in Boston and damage the relationship with Brown.
I love Bulpett, but no way I go with him over the combination of Shams, Woj, Windy, Fischer, and then the likes of KOC, Lowe, Weiss, Murphy, etc.
 

Smokey Joe

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2001
1,155
I love Bulpett, but no way I go with him over the combination of Shams, Woj, Windy, Fischer, and then the likes of KOC, Lowe, Weiss, Murphy, etc.
It depends on what you mean by “make an offer”. If you have a conversation with another team;
Celtics- “So what are you looking for in exchange for Durant?”
Nets- “From you? Brown, Smart and some picks.
Celtics- “No f’ing way.”
Nets- “Well you would have to include somebody to make the salaries match. How about White?”
Celtics- “Ugh! If we gave you 2 starting players, we wouldn’t be giving you any picks. Maybe one.”
Nets- “Three picks and three swaps”
Celtics- “We’re gonna have to think about this. We’ll call you back.”

Is that an offer? It is if you are a sports writer trying to generate some clicks. It is if you are the Nets trying to pump up KDs price. I am not impressed with Woj or Shams. They do a lot of favors for teams and agents in exchange for access and don’t feel they have work to hard to corroborate stuff like this.
All of those other writers are happy to generate their own clicks with these reports without spending too much time checking up on them.
Then when the furor dies down, Bulpett can generate more clicks by debunking the story.

And so it goes.
 

Strike4

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,895
Portland, Maine
I love Bulpett, but no way I go with him over the combination of Shams, Woj, Windy, Fischer, and then the likes of KOC, Lowe, Weiss, Murphy, etc.
But they aren't mutually exclusive. If it's part of Brooklyn's agenda and they put it out there, it's not like all these reporters were wrong. Brooklyn might just have gone too far with something they had done previously with other teams, and the Celtics reacted in a stronger manner. Nets might have touched the stove on this one.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,458
I love Bulpett, but no way I go with him over the combination of Shams, Woj, Windy, Fischer, and then the likes of KOC, Lowe, Weiss, Murphy, etc.
I will say Lowe on his pod was talking with someone (Marks?) about how the idea that there are "offers" like it's fantasy football isn't really accurate, you just talk about guys and it's very fluid, so when you hear that an offer was made.. unless it was something that was ready to go to the league and got shot down by the owner, it is more "we discussed these guys in non-concrete terms"

As to the reports from Woj and Shams... I trust 100% that what they printed is exactly what the BKN front office person told them, which is all they really do... they aren't investigating, thye just post what they get texted.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
I will say Lowe on his pod was talking with someone (Marks?) about how the idea that there are "offers" like it's fantasy football isn't really accurate, you just talk about guys and it's very fluid, so when you hear that an offer was made.. unless it was something that was ready to go to the league and got shot down by the owner, it is more "we discussed these guys in non-concrete terms"

As to the reports from Woj and Shams... I trust 100% that what they printed is exactly what the BKN front office person told them, which is all they really do... they aren't investigating, thye just post what they get texted.
This.

Nobody is accusing Woj and Shams of dishonestly. That's what they were told...by Brooklyn. Doesn't mean that any offer was made.

As always with this shit, follow the money. Who benefits from this story? And would they have incentive to stretch the truth to get an angle out there? In this case, the answers are "Brooklyn" and "yes".

Doesn't mean that it's bullshit, but it could be.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,178
Washington
I have a hard time seeing Brooklyn and Boston seriously engage with each other at all if Brown wasn't on the table, but I can buy that all the details beyond that were fluid.

But maybe Boston really isn't that interested in Durant and didn't engage beyond checking in or something.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,458
I have a hard time seeing Brooklyn and Boston seriously engage with each other at all if Brown wasn't on the table, but I can buy that all the details beyond that were fluid.

But maybe Boston really isn't that interested in Durant and didn't engage beyond checking in or something.
My guess is both sides are playing media games.
BKN says "oh yeah there was an offer of X,Y,Z" because they were all discussed, and maybe at some point BKN said... yeah we'd be looking for "W,X,Y,Z in this deal" and BOS said "hmm X.Y, Z and W seems like a lot"
BOS is able to say "the deal of X,Y,Z was never made" because they never made a concrete offer, but they discussed those pieces individually and perhaps in tandem.

DO I think BOS made a take it or leave it offer of Jaylen, White and a 1st...... no.
Do I think BOS didn't talk about Jaylen plus as the core of a deal... nope.

I'm sure Jaylen was discussed either directly or by imputation.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,482
I will say Lowe on his pod was talking with someone (Marks?) about how the idea that there are "offers" like it's fantasy football isn't really accurate, you just talk about guys and it's very fluid, so when you hear that an offer was made.. unless it was something that was ready to go to the league and got shot down by the owner, it is more "we discussed these guys in non-concrete terms"

As to the reports from Woj and Shams... I trust 100% that what they printed is exactly what the BKN front office person told them, which is all they really do... they aren't investigating, thye just post what they get texted.
I think it was Bontemps.

IIRC, one of them also said - and the other agreed - that everyone knows that JT is off the table so JB would have to be the centerpiece of a trade and as such the teams could discuss JB without ever mentioning him name.

"We need two starters and picks."

"No we are giving up two starters and we're not giving up multiple picks."
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
I think it was Bontemps.

IIRC, one of them also said - and the other agreed - that everyone knows that JT is off the table so JB would have to be the centerpiece of a trade and as such the teams could discuss JB without ever mentioning him name.

"We need two starters and picks."

"No we are giving up two starters and we're not giving up multiple picks."
Exactly.

Agree with everyone here that Brad didn't call Brooklyn and specifically say, "JT and JB are off the table, what's your offer." There's no point in making that call.

You call and feel out what Brooklyn is looking for. They list a few guys. They don't bother mentioning JT either, because why bother. So they throw out Brown and whatever else they want (Smart, Grant, all the firsts and swaps, Geno, the Bruins Zamboni), and Brad says "you're nuts" and that's that. Maybe he counters with, "you can't be serious about Smart and all of the picks, are you mental?".

Then Brooklyn says that Brown is on the table. He is, by extension, because no phone call happens if he isn't. Doesn't mean that PBS made a formal offer of anything.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Is that a good or bad outcome for the C's? I get it's bad financially but it basically keeps Tatum locked here.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
I mean we are all guessing here, but it seems just as likely that there was an offer of Brown, White, pick(s) as there wasn't.
Yeah we're guessing. Point is that the Celtics wouldn't leak that. So Brooklyn is either leaking it or pushing a false narrative. Either is believable to me.

Is that a good or bad outcome for the C's? I get it's bad financially but it basically keeps Tatum locked here.
I'd rather he gets it and is all but guaranteed to stay here long-term. Guys leave some money on the table, but not megabucks. I think that every team can afford one of those guys without having to load up with a full JAG bench. Especially if they can keep signing other rotation guys to cost effective deals like Marcus and TL.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,700
Saint Paul, MN
Yeah we're guessing. Point is that the Celtics wouldn't leak that. So Brooklyn is either leaking it or pushing a false narrative. Either is believable to me.
There is a third alternative too though. Boston may not want it leaked, but that doesn't prevent someone from opening their mouth a bit too much or someone becoming privy to the information in some other way.

Leaks happen all the time. And they come from any and every side of the equation.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,403
around the way
There is a third alternative too though. Boston may not want it leaked, but that doesn't prevent someone from opening their mouth a bit too much or someone becoming privy to the information in some other way.

Leaks happen all the time. And they come from any and every side of the equation.
Yeah but this front office has no history of it, and Brooklyn's does. It's not a coin flip where this came from. Of course anything is possible. Sometimes the dog actually does eat the homework.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
Is that a good or bad outcome for the C's? I get it's bad financially but it basically keeps Tatum locked here.
It’s a great outcome for Boston, 35% max with 8% raises vs 30% max with 5% raises amounts to a pretty pile of cash. With the cap going up Boston is pretty well situated.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,085
It’s a great outcome for Boston, 35% max with 8% raises vs 30% max with 5% raises amounts to a pretty pile of cash. With the cap going up Boston is pretty well situated.
Yup. Anything that increases the odds of Tatum sticking around in Boston for the entirety of his prime is great news for us. Only potential downside is if his play is impacted by trying to put up numbers to solidify this. Fortunately, I think the Finals run has raised his profile so much that he should be a semi-lock as long as he stays healthy and plays close to his capabilities.
 

jmcc5400

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2000
5,203
Yup. Anything that increases the odds of Tatum sticking around in Boston for the entirety of his prime is great news for us. Only potential downside is if his play is impacted by trying to put up numbers to solidify this. Fortunately, I think the Finals run has raised his profile so much that he should be a semi-lock as long as he stays healthy and plays close to his capabilities.
Yeah. To accentuate the obvious, It would be kind of nice if he plays well enough to be All-NBA. If he doesn’t, the team’s ceiling gets much lower.
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
8,848
NYC
If When Jayson Tatum makes the 2023 All-NBA team

Edit: and yeah, fantastic outcome, given you're talking his peak age 26-30 seasons.

Edit #2: whoops, I misread that as "All-Star Team." I'd say it's basically 100% he's an All-Star, but maybe 50-50 he's All-NBA first team again?

Edit #3: oh wait, is "All-NBA" the top three teams? If so, that's probably 95%.
 
Last edited:

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
11,996
If When Jayson Tatum makes the 2023 All-NBA team

Edit: and yeah, fantastic outcome, given you're talking his peak age 26-30 seasons.

Edit #2: whoops, I misread that as "All-Star Team." I'd say it's basically 100% he's an All-Star, but maybe 50-50 he's All-NBA first team again?

Edit #3: oh wait, is "All-NBA" the top three teams? If so, that's probably 95%.
Yeah, top 3 teams. The man is going to get supermaxxxed.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
14,279
Just to start a new convo... who are your top 5 under 25?

Here's Perks'

1) Luka
2) Ja
3) Trae
4) Tatum
5) Edwards
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
14,279
Going to be honest - mostly just asked the question because I saw the list while at the gym & was like why in the world is Tatum 4th?

I think the more interesting question is best 5 man lineup...

Ja/Edwards/Luka/Tatum/Mobley? Idk, will have to think about it more.

Kinda like Luka/Edwards/Tatum/Ingram/Mobley
 

Swedgin

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2013
701
Luka-Tatum-Trae-Ja-Booker

Really the only interesting spot.
Feel like Tatum, Ja and Luka are in pen. Trae is in pencil because of his D, and 5 is wide open.

Right now I would go with Ant. But at the end of the 22/23 season it would not shock me if any of Zion, Mobley, Cade, Barnes, Paolo, Shai, Lamelo, Garland or Bam were the pick

There is a lot of talent in the league right now.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,271
I’d go
Luka-Tatum-Ja-Zion-Ant

Full disclosure, I’ve always been way more down on Trae than consensus. I thought that ECF run was completely lucky and he’s a complete sieve defensively. It’s absolutely fucking insane that Perk would put him above Tatum but I think Perk is basically just a hot take machine. I’m not sure he even believes that list is correct
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,199
CA
I would have Luka - Tatum - Ja - Edwards - Trae

And of Ja - Edwards - Trae I think that Edwards might be the one competing for the #2 spot a year from now.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,014
Imaginationland
I'm not so certain that Ja belongs above Trae. He's got the physical tools to be a better defender but he's certainly not using them (yet). Add in potential injury concerns with Ja and it wouldn't shock me if a year from now their order is flipped. Very curious to see how he looks alongside Murray.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.