Patriots Training Camp 2022

BigSoxFan

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One-dimensional is a bit harsh. A one-dimensional back is someone with one skill that defines them in the role. Antowain Smith was a one-dimensional back. He was big, strong, and slow. His only thing that defined him as an NFL back was his play strength.

Harris is big, fast, can run downhill, can cut back, can jump-cut, and has a ton of versatility as a runner. He may not be a pass-catching back, but I don't think of him as one-dimensional in any way, as I think that does a disservice to his skillset that allows him to gain yards in a number of different ways and schemes.
I think it's a bit of a semantic argument. We clearly have different definitions of "one-dimensional". Mine is far more simple. If a RB isn't a threat to catch a pass, then I view him as one-dimensional. Doesn't matter to me if he's more dynamic as a runner than an Antowain Smith type back. When Damien Harris is in, teams know they don't have to really cover him out of the backfield. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have value in a variety of running formations, which he clearly does.

If Rhamondre can become a bigger threat out of the backfield, then that's something the Pats haven't really had in a lead back since, I dunno, Dion Lewis?
 

BaseballJones

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The Patriots' RB room doesn't have any big names, but it's LOADED with talent. Harris is an exceptional running back (in the running department).

2020: 137 att, 691 yds, 5.0 avg, 2 td
2021: 202 att, 929 yds, 4.6 avg, 15 td
Last two seasons: 339 att, 1,620 yds, 4.8 avg, 17 td (1 td every 20 rush att)

That's pretty awesome.

Stevenson is even more talented. A little slower 4.63 compared to Harris' 4.58, but more power and more receiving skill. Both are tanks with good speed and shiftiness. And the other Harris was a top SEC running back, averaging 5.5 yards per attempt during his career at South Carolina facing all those awesome SEC teams. And Strong was only the fastest RB in the draft. So tons of talent anyway, even if none of the RBs are big time names.
 

BaseballJones

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I think it's a bit of a semantic argument. We clearly have different definitions of "one-dimensional". Mine is far more simple. If a RB isn't a threat to catch a pass, then I view him as one-dimensional. Doesn't matter to me if he's more dynamic as a runner than an Antowain Smith type back. When Damien Harris is in, teams know they don't have to really cover him out of the backfield. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have value in a variety of running formations, which he clearly does.

If Rhamondre can become a bigger threat out of the backfield, then that's something the Pats haven't really had in a lead back since, I dunno, Dion Lewis?
The Pats can use the scouting report on Harris to their advantage though. If teams know they're running most of the time he's in the game, then just use play action in key moments and they'll totally be sold on the run.
 

BigSoxFan

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The Pats can use the scouting report on Harris to their advantage though. If teams know they're running most of the time he's in the game, then just use play action in key moments and they'll totally be sold on the run.
Yup. The play action is absolutely a weapon that Harris allows them to have. With 2 hopefully good and healthy TEs, that's meaningful.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Harris was also seventh on the team in catches, with 18 (in 21 targets). Rhamondre was eighth with 14 (in 18 targets), though I'd agree that Stevenson shows more potential in the passing game.
  • Harris played 407 snaps, carried 202 times, was targeted 21 times out of 205 snaps where he didn't carry (10%).
  • Stevenson played 265 snaps, carried 133 times, was targeted 18 times out of 132 snaps where he didn't carry (13%).
  • Bolden played 342 snaps, carried 44 times, was targeted 49 times out of 298 snaps where he didn't carry (16%).
  • White played 63 snaps, carried 10 times, was targeted 14 times in the 53 snaps where he didn't carry (26%).
  • JJ Taylor played 52 snaps, carried 5 times, was targeted 4 times in the 48 snaps where he didn't carry (8%).
Granted, there are things pass receiving backs (and perhaps Stevenson in time) will do out of the backfield that Harris may not. But he's caught a decent number of passes in his career for a guy that is being called a zero in the passing game. His catch rate for his career is 82% and he was at 86% last year, way better than Sony Michel (a career 65%) who, to my eye, was used in similar limited ways in the passing game.
 

Cellar-Door

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The Patriots' RB room doesn't have any big names, but it's LOADED with talent. Harris is an exceptional running back (in the running department).

2020: 137 att, 691 yds, 5.0 avg, 2 td
2021: 202 att, 929 yds, 4.6 avg, 15 td
Last two seasons: 339 att, 1,620 yds, 4.8 avg, 17 td (1 td every 20 rush att)

That's pretty awesome.

Stevenson is even more talented. A little slower 4.63 compared to Harris' 4.58, but more power and more receiving skill. Both are tanks with good speed and shiftiness. And the other Harris was a top SEC running back, averaging 5.5 yards per attempt during his career at South Carolina facing all those awesome SEC teams. And Strong was only the fastest RB in the draft. So tons of talent anyway, even if none of the RBs are big time names.
And there is a chance the most productive player will be none of those, but instead Ty Montgomery taking the James White role
 

nattysez

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Al Breer says the Pats have been dangling Isaiah Wynn in trade. Not sure they've really got enough o-line depth to move him, but...

“New England’s really tight to the cap, and my sense is they’d like to use a surplus they might have at one position or another to alleviate that and maybe pick up a draft pick or two,” Breer wrote in his latest Monday Morning Quarterback column. “The one guy I know definitively that they’ve talked with other teams on is Isaiah Wynn, their first-round pick from 2018. Wynn, though, is on a $10.4 million fifth-year option, which has made it tough to move a guy who, four years after he was drafted, is still seen as a tackle/guard tweener.”
https://nesn.com/2022/08/patriots-rumors-new-england-discussing-possible-isaiah-wynn-trade/
 

Super Nomario

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Assuming Wynn out in a trade, you then move Onwenu to RT where he performed FAR better than he has at either guard spot. Then Hambright or Sherman to RG with either Ferentz or Russey as backup interior lineman.
This is a really, really green IOL group in that case. Strange and Russey are rookies. Sherman played 6 snaps last year, all on STs. Hambright has 1 NFL start. Ferentz, despite being 33, only has 6.
 

shawnrbu

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View: https://twitter.com/GregABedard/status/1562122887741419521?s=20&t=vcZZEwk6YTVfNtKplrSpAQ


“Raiders have completely dominated both sides so far. First 3 Patriots snaps in team: stuff, stuff, sack. Jones 5 of 9 in 7 on 7. Henry reception only one down the field. Offense looks deflated coming off. Carr sliced up Pats in 7 on 7. Devante Adams is unfair.”

View: https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1562122931307552768?s=20&t=vcZZEwk6YTVfNtKplrSpAQ


“Raiders have had the upper hand in every drill I’ve seen so far today. Having the better day on offense and defense.”
 

BaseballJones

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It’s just preseason camp but that’s pretty discouraging stuff. Though I think the Raiders will be good this year and…. Football isn’t played 7 on 7.
 

rodderick

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I think we're far enough into the off-season to realize running the ball has been a major struggle for them. And considering their passing offense played off the run game last year, either they spread teams out and put a whole lot more on Mac's plate or they somehow figure out the new running scheme in two weeks. These issues have popped up in virtually every single practice according to he beat.
 

DJnVa

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These are small sample sizes broke up into even smaller sample sizes.
 

Bowhemian

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I think it is worth noting that while this certainly isn't good news, these 2 teams play each other later this season. It is quite possible that BB is keeping things intentionally bland and somewhat predictable.
 

RedOctober3829

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I hope everyone realizes this rollercoaster type of practice from the offense is what's to be expected right now. Installing a new offense is really hard and there will be kinks to work out. I have been saying this for a while and I still stand by it: if the OL stabilizes, gets the communications down, and becomes a solid unit that they have the skill guys to be a good offense.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think we're far enough into the off-season to realize running the ball has been a major struggle for them. And considering their passing offense played off the run game last year, either they spread teams out and put a whole lot more on Mac's plate or they somehow figure out the new running scheme in two weeks. These issues have popped up in virtually every single practice according to he beat.
And they haven't popped up in the pre-season games. I'm not going to worry about the running game based on practice drills. If they get to the actual regular season games and struggle... then I might worry.
 

Harry Hooper

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I think it is worth noting that while this certainly isn't good news, these 2 teams play each other later this season. It is quite possible that BB is keeping things intentionally bland and somewhat predictable.
Given the size of the likes of Brown and Onwenu, there should be a lot of predictable mauling of the defense on running plays.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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This is like judging the economy based off of Tom Brokaw reading the Dow Jones number at the end of the evening news.
 

Van Everyman

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View: https://twitter.com/GregABedard/status/1562122887741419521?s=20&t=vcZZEwk6YTVfNtKplrSpAQ


“Raiders have completely dominated both sides so far. First 3 Patriots snaps in team: stuff, stuff, sack. Jones 5 of 9 in 7 on 7. Henry reception only one down the field. Offense looks deflated coming off. Carr sliced up Pats in 7 on 7. Devante Adams is unfair.”

View: https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1562122931307552768?s=20&t=vcZZEwk6YTVfNtKplrSpAQ


“Raiders have had the upper hand in every drill I’ve seen so far today. Having the better day on offense and defense.”
If you’re going to post that you should probably also post Bedard’s two followup tweets:

View: https://twitter.com/gregabedard/status/1562133231662538752?s=21&t=UyAM5oIiD7Hsp8pTz7oqvQ




Greg A. Bedard
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It got worse. Worst offensive practice of camp. Jones picked off to end awful 2 minute. He was pissed and paced sidelines after. Run defense only positive today. Pass defense carved up by Carr, Adams and Renfrow. No Waller.



Greg A. Bedard
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Great finish for D and O. Defense stopped Raiders thanks to Carr overthrowing wide open Bolden in end zone. Judon sack, held. Offense got Bourne TD from Jones to end drive that featured good completions to Henry, Meyers, Parker and Smith. One sack on drive. Really strong
 

CoffeeNerdness

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So we can all stop being excited for Tyquan Thornton as well? I mean, both the good and the bad are all based on reports.
Well, for about 8 weeks.

But really it's the play-by-play breakdowns that seem pretty ridiculous. Bad play happened: Boooooooooo! Good play happened: Season saved! It's just the nature of the world we live in, I suppose.
 

Shelterdog

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If you’re going to post that you should probably also post Bedard’s two followup tweets:

View: https://twitter.com/gregabedard/status/1562133231662538752?s=21&t=UyAM5oIiD7Hsp8pTz7oqvQ




Greg A. Bedard
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It got worse. Worst offensive practice of camp. Jones picked off to end awful 2 minute. He was pissed and paced sidelines after. Run defense only positive today. Pass defense carved up by Carr, Adams and Renfrow. No Waller.



Greg A. Bedard
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Great finish for D and O. Defense stopped Raiders thanks to Carr overthrowing wide open Bolden in end zone. Judon sack, held. Offense got Bourne TD from Jones to end drive that featured good completions to Henry, Meyers, Parker and Smith. One sack on drive. Really strong
man if it was the worst offensive practice of camp it’s really bad because he’s twice said this campthat the practice was the worst he’s ever seen an nfl team have in his twenty years!
 

ZMart100

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I hope everyone realizes this rollercoaster type of practice from the offense is what's to be expected right now. Installing a new offense is really hard and there will be kinks to work out. I have been saying this for a while and I still stand by it: if the OL stabilizes, gets the communications down, and becomes a solid unit that they have the skill guys to be a good offense.
It's not really a new offense for the Pats. The Raiders are the team with the new offense.
 

Jimbodandy

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So we can all stop being excited for Tyquan Thornton as well? I mean, both the good and the bad are all based on reports.
I think that we can use scouting reports (even camp ones) to judge new guys that we've never seen in the NFL. There's value in "yeah, guy gets separation, has great footspeed, good hands" when all we have is college tape and combine numbers. Using camp reports to judge whether this year's offense and defense are going to be good seems spotty, just like third stringers battling it out in preseason games.

Sure, maybe the offense, defense, or both might struggle for the first half of the year. This sometimes happens here. But I don't think that camp results are worth much.

If it were reports of infighting among the players or how Bill's precisely-timed practice sessions were all running over and chaotic and shit, that would worry me. Haven't heard any of that though.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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What are the expectations for the Pats this year, though? They seem like a thoroughly middle of the pack team and the current o/u (7.5 - 8.5 wins) seem to reflect that.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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rodderick

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I think that we can use scouting reports (even camp ones) to judge new guys that we've never seen in the NFL. There's value in "yeah, guy gets separation, has great footspeed, good hands" when all we have is college tape and combine numbers. Using camp reports to judge whether this year's offense and defense are going to be good seems spotty, just like third stringers battling it out in preseason games.

Sure, maybe the offense, defense, or both might struggle for the first half of the year. This sometimes happens here. But I don't think that camp results are worth much.

If it were reports of infighting among the players or how Bill's precisely-timed practice sessions were all running over and chaotic and shit, that would worry me. Haven't heard any of that though.
I think when the beat is banging on a specific aspect of the offense struggling pretty much every single day in practice, it's something to keep an eye on, that's all. And it's not like every year we have similar reports and they turn out to be fine, I can't really recall a training camp in which "they can't run the ball" was a constant theme. More than likely they'll figure it out, because Bill is Bill and there is some talent on that side of the ball, but still, considering how huge a role rushing played on last year's team, I'd like them to be further along (and I'd wager most of us never expected that of all things to show up as an issue at this point).
 

Jimbodandy

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I think when the beat is banging on a specific aspect of the offense struggling pretty much every single day in practice, it's something to keep an eye on, that's all. And it's not like every year we have similar reports and they turn out to be fine, I can't really recall a training camp in which "they can't run the ball" was a constant theme. More than likely they'll figure it out, because Bill is Bill and there is some talent on that side of the ball, but still, considering how huge a role rushing played on last year's team, I'd like them to be further along (and I'd wager most of us never expected that of all things to show up as an issue at this point).
That's fair. It bears watching. Was just saying that I'm not worried.
 

54thMA

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What are the expectations for the Pats this year, though? They seem like a thoroughly middle of the pack team and the current o/u (7.5 - 8.5 wins) seem to reflect that.
They've become what other teams used to be; middle of the pack teams that might make the playoffs, then get knocked out in the first round.

This day was coming sooner than later, which makes me appreciate 2001-2018 even more, just an incredible run.
 

BusRaker

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How many times have you seen pitchers get lit up in pre-season or during a rehab stint and then come out strong in games that matter? Maybe a different sport but these players/coaches know the difference between games that count and those that don't. You work at what you suck at
 

Bigdogx

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They've become what other teams used to be; middle of the pack teams that might make the playoffs, then get knocked out in the first round.

This day was coming sooner than later, which makes me appreciate 2001-2018 even more, just an incredible run.
Yup and too many take it for granted because they simply are too young and know of nothing else from this team the last two decades.

It's going to be an uphill battle because like the teams pre-Brady, it will be difficult to get free agents to want to sign here.
 

lexrageorge

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Yup and too many take it for granted because they simply are too young and know of nothing else from this team the last two decades.

It's going to be an uphill battle because like the teams pre-Brady, it will be difficult to get free agents to want to sign here.
Pats have had no problem getting free agents to sign here post-Brady.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Feeling similar, although a couple wins more or fewer also wouldn't be a huge surprise. Maybe I'll start a new thread.
The start of this season feels like the first Cam season for me. No idea what to expect, high anticipation. If Mac let's the ball fly further downfield and takes a 2nd year leap, this team is a contender. Their run game and line will be fine. A top 10 passing offense makes this offense legit.

I'm not expecting an elite defense, but I'm not all that worried about the losses we have back there. More worried about the depth.

If Mac looks similar to last year, then the results will be the same as last year. We don't have an elite defense to allow a game manager to work his way through the playoffs. I don't even know if that's possible anymore.

So, just like most NFL teams, we go as far as the QB leads us.
 

Saints Rest

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How many times have you seen pitchers get lit up in pre-season or during a rehab stint and then come out strong in games that matter? Maybe a different sport but these players/coaches know the difference between games that count and those that don't. You work at what you suck at
Moreover, a decent size measure of the Pats' success during the BB tenure has been their ability to game-plan. Preseason, both practices and games, have ZERO game-planning. So the Pats are essentially playing with one arm tied behind their backs.
 

54thMA

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What are the expectations for the Pats this year, though? They seem like a thoroughly middle of the pack team and the current o/u (7.5 - 8.5 wins) seem to reflect that.
Like others, I've got them at 9-8 and again, like others, 10-7, 7-10 is in play too, I've got them as #11 in the conference.
 

tims4wins

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I'm not going to link all the tweets, but it sounds like the offense had one of their best days of the summer today
 

Bigdogx

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Pats have had no problem getting free agents to sign here post-Brady.
Lmao ok, your placing your comment off of a covid year when all the stars aligned right and they had the cap space to literally throw at people while other teams were cutting to get under it. If you want to take that one year and assume it will happen all the time go for it.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm not going to link all the tweets, but it sounds like the offense had one of their best days of the summer today
Not exactly a high bar to clear…

*ducks*

But, seriously, I’m just ready for the games to begin.
 

lexrageorge

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Lmao ok, your placing your comment off of a covid year when all the stars aligned right and they had the cap space to literally throw at people while other teams were cutting to get under it. If you want to take that one year and assume it will happen all the time go for it.
So, tell us the reasons why the Pats will have trouble attracting free agents, when the evidence indicates otherwise.