The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

heavyde050

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Can't argue with facts there.
Are those facts correct? Didn't make hit his first two passes (the incompletions were taken off the board by penalties). I think Mac finished 3-6 with last pass being intercepted. Also, didn't Zappe come in and get a lead of 14-10. I mean Zappe fell apart in the second half as much as the defense did.
So I am not sure how it was an uphill fight "all game".

Edit - and Mac only got three total drives - 2 three and outs and the pick.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Are those facts correct? Didn't make hit his first two passes (the incompletions were taken off the board by penalties). I think Mac finished 3-6 with last pass being intercepted. Also, didn't Zappe come in and get a lead of 14-10. I mean Zappe fell apart in the second half as much as the defense did.
So I am not sure how it was an uphill fight "all game".

Edit - and Mac only got three total drives - 2 three and outs and the pick.
There is nothing more depressing than which of our 2 QBs played worse but here we are.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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This very much. After last season, I did not expect this.
But then again, we're talking about a 2nd year QB who had a terrific rookie season coming off injury & a rookie QB with potential, at least as a capable backup or a decent starter.

I'm just not sure if the cups are half empty or half full yet but I'm leaning towards the latter.
 

radsoxfan

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After another week of healing and having knocked off some rust, I am looking forward to Mac leading the team to a win over the Jets.

Getting to 4-4 and solidifying his hold on the starting job would be a nice way for Mac to enter the 2nd half.

It's been an odd start to his second season for a variety of reasons, but I wouldn't give up on him yet.
 

heavyde050

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But then again, we're talking about a 2nd year QB who had a terrific rookie season coming off injury & a rookie QB with potential, at least as a capable backup or a decent starter.

I'm just not sure if the cups are half empty or half full yet but I'm leaning towards the latter.
Yeah, it is probably best to look at as half full OR just hope the Pats can get a guy like Hooker in the draft!
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Yeah, it is probably best to look at as half full OR just hope the Pats can get a guy like Hooker in the draft!
I'm more inclined to really shore up the OL. I'm convinced Jones would have equaled or bettered Zappe's performance vs Lions if given the same amount of protection.
 

scottyno

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Are those facts correct? Didn't make hit his first two passes (the incompletions were taken off the board by penalties). I think Mac finished 3-6 with last pass being intercepted. Also, didn't Zappe come in and get a lead of 14-10. I mean Zappe fell apart in the second half as much as the defense did.
So I am not sure how it was an uphill fight "all game".

Edit - and Mac only got three total drives - 2 three and outs and the pick.
They also leave out the offensive line not blocking anyone the first 2 drives including 3 penalties by Brown and a pretty easy drop by Harris right before the interception.
 

Cellar-Door

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They also leave out the offensive line not blocking anyone the first 2 drives including 3 penalties by Brown and a pretty easy drop by Harris right before the interception.
There were holds, but... I thought the line wasn't any worse for Mac, he bailed on decent pockets which has been a theme all year, and leads to some of the holds because he isn't where he's supposed to be.
 

rodderick

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There were holds, but... I thought the line wasn't any worse for Mac, he bailed on decent pockets which has been a theme all year, and leads to some of the holds because he isn't where he's supposed to be.
Yeah, it's about time we start blaming Mac for some of those pressures. OLs don't struggle for two drives and then magically improve when the other guy comes in. Zappe just has better pocket presence.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Mac's pick might have hit the skycam wire.
View: https://twitter.com/DougKyed/status/1585055173327867904?s=20&t=J2MSg7ngHyNYPAn2gA4VMA

Doug Kyed: A Bills fan here found that Mac Jones' interception might have hit the SkyCam wire. I slowed the video down as much as possible. Also not sure how much it actually affected things if it did hit the wire, but it's interesting. Genuinely have no idea if it hit the wire or not. It does appear that the wire springs back after the ball passes it, or that could be my eyes playing tricks on me. Good find by @BillsFilm, though.
 

Dollar

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If the SkyCam interferes with just one pass over the course of the season, it's not worth keeping around. I can't remember ever saying "I'm so glad we have the SkyCam for that great shot."
 

Bergs

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Shitty that that may have happened, but I think it is picked either way, and regardless it was a horrible decision by Mac.
The "picked either way" bit seems silly to me, but agree with the "horrible decision" bit.
 

lexrageorge

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Shitty that that may have happened, but I think it is picked either way, and regardless it was a horrible decision by Mac.
The only problem with that conclusion is that Mac may have felt he had an on-target throw to an open receiver down the sideline; the expected trajectory of the throw is now unknown. Cannot expect him to see or avoid a guy wire.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If the SkyCam interferes with just one pass over the course of the season, it's not worth keeping around. I can't remember ever saying "I'm so glad we have the SkyCam for that great shot."
If that one pass is thrown by, say Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes or a player who gets attention because they have an attractive mother vs the Patriots, its absolutely worth keeping around.

I care not one whit for fairness or logical consistency when it comes to my teams.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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If nothing else the wire redirection would explain why Jonnu was not playing to knock the ball out of the DB's hands and was instead jumping straight up.

In case you were interested, here's how Mac's full body of work compares to all of the QB's drafted in 2020, 2021 and 2022.

View attachment 56853
I'd be careful of a few things with this table:
1) The poor play leading to Mac's rough start to this season and why he is not a little closer to #1 on this list coincides with the OC by inexperience committee, after having a competent OC in McDaniels last year.
2) Not that Bailey won't stay high on this list, but let's see where he stands after a greater body of work and opponents getting more film on him. I think even last night we saw the defensive strategy starting to catch up to Zappe, namely the D Line affecting his throws at the line of scrimmage.
 

Section15Box113

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Shitty that that may have happened, but I think it is picked either way, and regardless it was a horrible decision by Mac.
Not sure you can say it would have been picked either way. Appears the wire pushed it down ever so slightly and may have slowed it as well. Could have been enough to have cleared Brisker.

More importantly, by rule, pretty sure it should have been a dead ball and the down replayed, if I recall correctly.
 

54thMA

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That Volin favors Mac is a reason to favor Zappe. Volin is the closest thing in the Bosotn media to Ivan ("always wrong") Ackerman from Annie Hall.

View: https://youtu.be/1VIBA_mPdPA


On a more serious note, the only thing we know is that Bill is going to play the QB who he thinks will give him the best shot to win, regardless of the fall out.

My bet is that he's going to go with Zappe. Mac made a lot of mental mistakes while he was playing and while Zappe has undoubtedly made some too, they have not been as glaring or as costly. Mac also seemed to be pressing while Bailey looks like he is playing "easy." I'm guessing Bill will go with Zappe again against the Bears to increase the sample size, especially if Mac is not 100% by game time.

High class problem they have there in Foxboro compared to the Cam days.
The face palm murders me every time.
 

cshea

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He might've been throwing the ball away and the wire knocked it down. The trajectory does seem to turn down once hit hits the wire. Who knows. Even if it was a throwaway, it was a bad one.
 

Cellar-Door

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So obviously the pick 6 was awful, but in some ways this awful play from him epitomizes this season:
View: https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1586782618108203008


4th and 1, play drawn up to boot left with 1 TE and 1 WR, Mac Boots... the TE is open for an easy 1st.... Mac ignores him, starts dancing around, tries to waive Meyers into a new route completely against Jakobi's momentum.... dumps a duck in the middle of nowhere.
IT's 4th and 1... just give your TE the ball and take the fresh set of downs.

Also, people on twitter arguing this isn't his fault, but the playcall and the line..... the playcall got him in space and a quick open man for a 1st. Nobody was open 3,4,5 seconds in because he already missed the open guy and it's a quick roll-out design. There is a free rusher by design, the boot makes that guy pick to rush Mac or stay under Henry... he rushes Mac, leaving Henry nice and open.
 

reggiecleveland

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Feel free to eviscerate a hoops guy trying to analyze football, but can MAck pass from under center? Can he do play action pass? The entire 2nd half I was 100% guessing pass or run. Under center run, seems the audible was run outside. Shot gun, pass. Shot gun with a running back, run.
 
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Ralphwiggum

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I've been a cautiously optimistic Mac guy, but I don't know anymore. He holds the ball too long, doesn't seem to have much in the way of pocket presence, and has definitely seemed to regress since the training wheels were taken off the offense. I don't think Zappe is the answer either, and ultimately I think they need to continue to ride Mac to give him as many real game reps as he can get to see if he can actually grow into something better than what we are seeing right now, but I'm not hopeful.

It sucks being in QB purgatory in the NFL, but at least we didn't trade up to draft Zach Wilson with the #2 pick.
 

radsoxfan

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I'm confused by Mac, given he looked so much better at the start and middle portion of his rookie year than in season 2.

I get that things dont always improve linearly, but at some point in the next few games he needs to start showing something.

He is making terrible reads and looks skittish back there. Not sure what's up but he clearly is not seeing the field like he should be (or has previously).
 

IdiotKicker

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My view was that unless Mac completely blows up, you ride with him for an extended period this year to see what he has. Today was bad, but Wilson was worse, and Mac’s line was terrible, so obviously this isn’t a complete blow up. Give him some time to get acclimated to game speed again, let’s see how he does for a few more games, but the arrow is continuing to point down after today. Need more from him in terms of decision-making, because he’s not a difference maker because of his arm.
 

kartvelo

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If the OLine were consistently reliable (not even "great," but reliable), it'd be easier to evaluate Mac. But they're all over the place.
 

Marciano490

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Maybe Mac is one of those guys like Jonah Hill who just performs better when he’s a little flabby. Sign me back up for Babyfat Mac.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It really feels like some people criticizing Jones don't watch much NFL beyond the Patriots. What we saw today between the Pats and Jets is what many other fans across the league get week in and week out from what I've seen. It almost feels like a typical Thursday Night game this season.

This isn't to say Jones is or isn't the "guy" but its also an acknowledgement that he still might be with the right seasoning. I know some have already made up their minds its not happening and I am not here to sell anyone otherwise.

However, it really feels like the bar of the Pats needing to have the next Brady/Mahomes/Allen to compete is simply unrealistic. Those guys come along very infrequently.
 

8slim

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It really feels like some people criticizing Jones don't watch much NFL beyond the Patriots. What we saw today between the Pats and Jets is what many other fans across the league get week in and week out from what I've seen. It almost feels like a typical Thursday Night game this season.

This isn't to say Jones is or isn't the "guy" but its also an acknowledgement that he still might be with the right seasoning. I know some have already made up their minds its not happening and I am not here to sell anyone otherwise.

However, it really feels like the bar of the Pats needing to have the next Brady/Mahomes/Allen to compete is simply unrealistic. Those guys come along very infrequently.
Geez man, I suspect most people here watch A LOT of NFL. The delta between Mac and Mahones doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be wondering if Mac can be a long term solution. Many of us would be happy with a lot less than Brady. Mac isn’t anywhere near that at the moment.
 

Cellar-Door

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It really feels like some people criticizing Jones don't watch much NFL beyond the Patriots. What we saw today between the Pats and Jets is what many other fans across the league get week in and week out from what I've seen. It almost feels like a typical Thursday Night game this season.

This isn't to say Jones is or isn't the "guy" but its also an acknowledgement that he still might be with the right seasoning. I know some have already made up their minds its not happening and I am not here to sell anyone otherwise.

However, it really feels like the bar of the Pats needing to have the next Brady/Mahomes/Allen to compete is simply unrealistic. Those guys come along very infrequently.
I don't know that I agree. I think that was bottom of the league QB play from both starters. But... my bigger concern is that bottom half of the league is usually a roller-coaster, you have some real terrible games, you have some real good ones, you have mostly ones in-between. Mac has been on the low end of that all year this year. He's bringing you more downside than up, and those guys get replaced every year.

My view was that unless Mac completely blows up, you ride with him for an extended period this year to see what he has. Today was bad, but Wilson was worse, and Mac’s line was terrible, so obviously this isn’t a complete blow up. Give him some time to get acclimated to game speed again, let’s see how he does for a few more games, but the arrow is continuing to point down after today. Need more from him in terms of decision-making, because he’s not a difference maker because of his arm.
I think you play Mac every game this year, and then you draft a QB or sign a real backup in the offseason (like a Dalton not a Hoyer) and put Mac's job on the line in TC.
 

DJnVa

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Geez man, I suspect most people here watch A LOT of NFL. The delta between Mac and Mahones doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be wondering if Mac can be a long term solution. Many of us would be happy with a lot less than Brady. Mac isn’t anywhere near that at the moment.
Yeah well, Mac's team has a better record than Brady's!
 

8slim

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My view was that unless Mac completely blows up, you ride with him for an extended period this year to see what he has. Today was bad, but Wilson was worse, and Mac’s line was terrible, so obviously this isn’t a complete blow up. Give him some time to get acclimated to game speed again, let’s see how he does for a few more games, but the arrow is continuing to point down after today. Need more from him in terms of decision-making, because he’s not a difference maker because of his arm.
Agree completely. He’s the guy for the rest of this season. He’s not giving folks much reason to think he’s a long term solution, but there’s half a season to be played.
 

Arroyoyo

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My assumption is the vast majority of BBTL watches a metric shitton of football.

Because bad QB play exists elsewhere doesn’t mean we should become complacent with it. The goal is for the Patriots not to suck like other teams.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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My assumption is the vast majority of BBTL watches a metric shitton of football.

Because bad QB play exists elsewhere doesn’t mean we should become complacent with it. The goal is for the Patriots not to suck like other teams.
Its just not realistic to expect another good QB right after we got to see something incredibly rare. If you watch other NFL teams, including contenders, you will see bad play by even contending QBs.

Meanwhile, Jones was on the winning team today, which, last I checked, was all that matters in football. To me, some posts here read like we just saw a horrible loss that was all Jones' doing.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Its just not realistic to expect another good QB right after we got to see something incredibly rare. If you watch other NFL teams, including contenders, you will see bad play by even contending QBs.

Meanwhile, Jones was on the winning team today, which, last I checked, was all that matters in football. To me, some posts here read like we just saw a horrible loss that was all Jones' doing.
I generally agree with your approach in game threads but I am not entirely sure what the point is here.

Every one knows that great quarterbacks are rare. But everyone hopes that they maybe have a guy who is one. Maybe I am late to the party but I have been kind of optimistic that we had one. Yeah, I knew it wasn’t probable but up until today I had thought it was possible. He’s not the guy I hoped. Realized it today. He’s the guy we got and of course I will root for him. And I can’t say I am surprised because like you say good quarterbacks are rare.

But it is disappointing and I really think that is all people are expressing as that becomes more and more clear. Maybe you knew all along?