Kyrie is dirty rotten no good and we have schadenfreude…?

InstaFace

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Those teams could have traded for him now, no?
Yes, but plenty of teams' situations will be different in the summer than at the trade deadline. Plus they'd be guaranteed ~4 years of him* in a S&T, whereas they'd be rolling the extension dice getting him now.

* ("This food is awful!" "Yes, and such small portions!")
 

radsoxfan

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I think both of these things can be true:

1. The Luka/Kyrie fit is awkward and chances are it won't work out too well

2. This is a worthwhile trade and risk for the Mavs

They aren't going anywhere with this roster and they know it. If Kyrie backfires, let him go in the offseason and they have a max slot lined up (I read somewhere).

Plus the West is flat and there is a non-zero chance this boosts them towards the conference finals.

Feels like a win-win trade from where I'm sitting.
 

bigq

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I think both of these things can be true:

1. The Luka/Kyrie fit is awkward and chances are it won't work out too well

2. This is a worthwhile trade and risk for the Mavs

They aren't going anywhere with this roster and they know it. If Kyrie backfires, let him go in the offseason and they have a max slot lined up (I read somewhere).

Plus the West is flat and there is a non-zero chance this boosts them towards the conference finals.

Feels like a win-win trade from where I'm sitting.
Agree and I think this is a great summary. I don’t fully understand Steph’s injury or how long he will be out but it feels like the West is wide open. There is no dominant team in the West and anything can happen in the playoffs.
 

ManicCompression

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-If Luka leaves the Mavs when he's a free agent in 2027.
I think it's possible that Luka looks around at the end of this season and:
- sees that the team sucks
- sees that Kyrie torpedoed the season through injury or some other weird shit (can we really expect him to not act out on a team this time?)
- sees that they just traded his best friend on the team (DFS)
- sees that Dallas has no way of improving the roster around him

And then he decides... why would I stay here for another four years? The rumblings about him being unhappy are already starting. I think there's a better than even chance he starts pushing for greener pastures this offseason
 

ManicCompression

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For those saying that they open up a max slot in free agency if Kyrie leaves, who are they signing into it? This class leaves a lot to be desired, unless you want to max out a 34 year old James Harden and pair him with Luka, or a 32 year old Khris Middleton. Even the restricted free agents suck: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

That reasoning just seems like lipstick on a pig - cap space is nearly worthless to a contending team without the ability to sign good players with it. And to give up a future first and valuable rotation players for the privilege to it seems like a really bad idea.

Save for the slim, slim chance that Kyrie becomes an entirely different human than the one he's been for a decade, this trade seems like a disaster for Dallas, one last desperation heave to put a star next to Luka. They couldn't even get off bad salary like Tim Hardaway Jr. in this trade? Dwight Powell?

IDK, the team around Luka stinks, but I'd keep the powder dry until the summer when more players will be available and you can get a cleaner fit beside Luka (and someone who will reliably show up and play games for your team).
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think both of these things can be true:

1. The Luka/Kyrie fit is awkward and chances are it won't work out too well

2. This is a worthwhile trade and risk for the Mavs

They aren't going anywhere with this roster and they know it. If Kyrie backfires, let him go in the offseason and they have a max slot lined up (I read somewhere).

Plus the West is flat and there is a non-zero chance this boosts them towards the conference finals.

Feels like a win-win trade from where I'm sitting.
maybe—that’s not unreasonable. If you don’t have immediate pressure form Luka, though, you’ve given up three assets for a brief rental and that’s a big gamble.
 

Kliq

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Terrible, terrible trade for Dallas. Giving up picks plus DFS, who is their most reliable wing defender and a key rotation guy for a hollow scorer who meshes poorly with your once-in-a-generation superstar and will quit on your team at any moment. Dallas is getting shredded to pieces in the playoffs even if Kyrie plays well and stays healthy. Awful, awful trade. Huge dub for the Nets though.
 

radsoxfan

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For those saying that they open up a max slot in free agency if Kyrie leaves, who are they signing into it? This class leaves a lot to be desired, unless you want to max out a 34 year old James Harden and pair him with Luka, or a 32 year old Khris Middleton. Even the restricted free agents suck: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

That reasoning just seems like lipstick on a pig - cap space is nearly worthless to a contending team without the ability to sign good players with it. And to give up a future first and valuable rotation players for the privilege to it seems like a really bad idea.

Save for the slim, slim chance that Kyrie becomes an entirely different human than the one he's been for a decade, this trade seems like a disaster for Dallas, one last desperation heave to put a star next to Luka. They couldn't even get off bad salary like Tim Hardaway Jr. in this trade? Dwight Powell?

IDK, the team around Luka stinks, but I'd keep the powder dry until the summer when more players will be available and you can get a cleaner fit beside Luka (and someone who will reliably show up and play games for your team).
Even if the chance it works is small, you've cleared the decks a bit for next year, something that had to be done anyway.

I guess the only true downside is if you think Dinwiddie, FInney-Smith, those picks are going to have some major value for future roster construction? I don't really see the big downside long term, but maybe those things have more value than I'm giving them credit for?
 

radsoxfan

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maybe—that’s not unreasonable. If you don’t have immediate pressure form Luka, though, you’ve given up three assets for a brief rental and that’s a big gamble.
Do people really think the assets they gave up are that valuable?

If they were, I have a feeling they would have aimed higher than someone with as much baggage as Kyrie.
 

bigq

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Do people really think the assets they gave up are that valuable?

If they were, I have a feeling they would have aimed higher than someone with as much baggage as Kyrie.
The 2029 unprotected first could be quite valuable.
 

ManicCompression

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Even if the chance it works is small, you've cleared the decks a bit for next year, something that had to be done anyway.

I guess the only true downside is if you think Dinwiddie, FInney-Smith, those picks are going to have some major value for future roster construction? I don't really see the big downside long term, but maybe those things have more value than I'm giving them credit for?
But clearing the decks for what? How many players on that list are worth even more than your mid-level? What does that cap space do in reality for the Mavs? They can't trade anyone into it because they have limited picks .

The missed opportunity is that you could convey your Knicks pick this year and get off that obligation finally and go into the offseason and potentially trade two picks and swaps or some combination thereof for a different target (Siakam? Paul George? IDK how season will shake out but there's way more time in summer to get trades going for surprising players).

The biggest downside is that Luka is so miserable after you acquired someone who notoriously makes teams miserable and suddenly he wants to leave.
 

mcpickl

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I think both of these things can be true:

1. The Luka/Kyrie fit is awkward and chances are it won't work out too well

2. This is a worthwhile trade and risk for the Mavs

They aren't going anywhere with this roster and they know it. If Kyrie backfires, let him go in the offseason and they have a max slot lined up (I read somewhere).

Plus the West is flat and there is a non-zero chance this boosts them towards the conference finals.

Feels like a win-win trade from where I'm sitting.
Did this trade even boost them though?

Kyrie is a better player than Dinwiddie, but I don't know if he's a better fit with Luka. I feel like Kyrie is going to think he's a 1B to Luka when Luka is still going to dominate the ball. I kinda like having the bigger Dinwiddie who knows his role and has shot 40% from 3 as a Maverick.

Losing Dorian Finney Smith on top as their only decent defender is a huge loss for them in my opinion.

Unless they have another miracle trade in them to find some forward help, and they don't have much in assets left to trade, I think they might actually be a worse team than they were this morning.

What is their starting lineup right now?

Luka, Kyrie, Hardaway Jr., Reggie Bullock and Dwight Powell?

Or Wood instead of one of Bullock/Powell?

They're going to score, but they're going to need to at an astronomical level because they're going to give up 125 a night.
 

Caspir

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Just clearing the way for the Jaylen for Luka trade next year.

I don’t see how this works, but for Dallas, 100% worth a shot. Nothing to lose and Luka won’t wait forever for a second star.
 

mcpickl

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Do people really think the assets they gave up are that valuable?

If they were, I have a feeling they would have aimed higher than someone with as much baggage as Kyrie.
Well, for Dallas, the three assets they sent out were probably 3 of the 4 most valuable non-Luka assets they had to trade(in addition to their 2027 1st). Having starter level players in their prime on good contracts are pretty nice to have. Think of DFS and Dinwiddie as the Celtics version of Derrick White and Malcolm Brogdon in terms of value.

Even if you think the assets they gave up aren't that valuable, it's almost everything they had. Gotta be really careful with your dollar bills when all you have left in your pocket are coins.
 

BaseballJones

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You'd think that two all-world basketball players would be able to find a way to play together. Like, does anyone in the world doubt that Bird and Magic would have been amazing together, even though both were Alphas? I'd like to think that Luka and Kyrie could figure it out - they're both amazing. And it's not like Kyrie didn't figure it out with LeBron, because he did.
 

TrapperAB

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100% Kyrie says some galaxy brain shit about being Luka’s LeBron, the vet who can show the kid how to win.

Oh, to have Luka tell Kyrie to fuck off with some variation of “I’m a lot better than you, so you should be listening to me.”
 

radsoxfan

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Did this trade even boost them though?
I mean, maybe?

I didn't really intend to defend Kyrie or the trade strongly at all, I am glad I'm not a Mavs fan that now has to rationalize rooting for him. But it's an upside play with no long-term commitment.

What they gave up, while perhaps just about all the Mavs have (and not worthless), is honestly just not much.


Darko-Mavs-Nets.png
 
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NomarsFool

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Luka and Irving better average 80 points a game together, because boy is the other team going to light it up.
 

Jakarta

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Nets trying to replicate the 2019 Raptors formula. A bunch of long guys that play hard, built around a single superstar. Unfortunately for the Nets, that success is probably dependent on Simmons becoming 2019 Siakam (or even better 2019 Simmons), although perhaps now he will have the ball in his hands a lot more which may help him be more impactful offensively. Will be interesting to see if it works.
 

benhogan

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I think both of these things can be true:

1. The Luka/Kyrie fit is awkward and chances are it won't work out too well

2. This is a worthwhile trade and risk for the Mavs

They aren't going anywhere with this roster and they know it. If Kyrie backfires, let him go in the offseason and they have a max slot lined up (I read somewhere).

Plus the West is flat and there is a non-zero chance this boosts them towards the conference finals.

Feels like a win-win trade from where I'm sitting.
Plus prevents him from going to the Lakers or Clippers this season. Playoff spots in the West will be precious
 

Kliq

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Any analysis of this trade that isn't some variation of "Kyrie is a malcontent who will find ways to undermine his team" isn't living in reality.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Luka and Irving better average 80 points a game together, because boy is the other team going to light it up.
Teams light up the Mavs now and Doncic can’t get 80 on his own. It’s going to be interesting to see how they play off each other to manipulate iso matchups. Also to see how Doncic being able to take offensive possessions off helps his energy on defense.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Agreed.

Though Luka carrying 15-20 extra lbs probably is a bigger problem for his energy on D.
Maybe Kyrie can be a good influence and turn Luka on to his vegan ways. I can see them ripping off 6 in a row and the two of them hanging out and bonding……..

I can also see Doncic telling the straight truth about Kyrie after he leaves after the season when they get bounced in R1.

Either way…..sign me up!!
 

benhogan

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Any analysis of this trade that isn't some variation of "Kyrie is a malcontent who will find ways to undermine his team" isn't living in reality.
That's pretty much understood. Kyrie will play nice for 30 games/playoff, get a 4yr contract, & once that ink dries he'll burn the Mavs...

I'm mostly happy because there is one less All-Star in the EC. Plus LeBron & Lakers fans are unhappy.

Long NBA season, we need to be fed and entertained
 

InstaFace

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Wait what? Kyrie to the Mavs? What?
It was in fact such a big deal that the WSJ news alerts - the kind that announce, like, major presidential election results from around the world, and only delve into sports when announcing each season's champions - sent out an alert that the Nets had traded Kyrie to Dallas.
 

Euclis20

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Nets trying to replicate the 2019 Raptors formula. A bunch of long guys that play hard, built around a single superstar. Unfortunately for the Nets, that success is probably dependent on Simmons becoming 2019 Siakam (or even better 2019 Simmons), although perhaps now he will have the ball in his hands a lot more which may help him be more impactful offensively. Will be interesting to see if it works.
They'll have to try that, but as you note it requires Simmons to be Siakam (chances of that happening are even worse than Kyrie being a positive influence on Luka). And even then, there's no one on the Nets who looks like Kyle Lowry, who was an all-star in 2019 (his 5th straight).
 

HomeRunBaker

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Interesting that Doncic now has a Top-5 selling Nike show while the company has released a new Kyrie model in the past week……and now a deal gets done. Hmmmm. If this thing works, yeah I know but just go with it, how big of a marketing campaign will Nike do with the two of them together?
 

TripleOT

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Phoenix with a motivated Kylie next to Booker would have been interesting, considering all the solid role players on the Suns.

I can see why Cuban would gamble on Kylie. He needs a second star, at least, to contend, and he’s got enough condolence in himself to think he can build a relationship with the mercurial (to put it kindly) Kylie. If Kyrie wasn’t happy with playing with LeBron, and wasn’t happy playing with Durant, why would anyone think he would be happy playing with Doncic? Or anyone else, for that matter?
 

snowmanny

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Phoenix with a motivated Kylie next to Booker would have been interesting, considering all the solid role players on the Suns.

I can see why Cuban would gamble on Kylie. He needs a second star, at least, to contend, and he’s got enough condolence in himself to think he can build a relationship with the mercurial (to put it kindly) Kylie. If Kyrie wasn’t happy with playing with LeBron, and wasn't happy playing with Tatum/Brown/Smart, and wasn’t happy playing with Durant, why would anyone think he would be happy playing with Doncic? Or anyone else, for that matter?
fixed

also agree with you on Cuban. Lots of pressure for them to get a second star.
 

The Mort Report

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HomeRunBaker

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Phoenix with a motivated Kylie next to Booker would have been interesting, considering all the solid role players on the Suns.

I can see why Cuban would gamble on Kylie. He needs a second star, at least, to contend, and he’s got enough condolence in himself to think he can build a relationship with the mercurial (to put it kindly) Kylie. If Kyrie wasn’t happy with playing with LeBron, and wasn’t happy playing with Durant, why would anyone think he would be happy playing with Doncic? Or anyone else, for that matter?
Clearly, Kyrie prefers playing with himself.
 

radsoxfan

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Lol Tsai. Wonder about protections on those Lakers picks.

If unprotected, those picks would seemingly have more value than anything they got from the Mavs, though they probably would have had to trade them right away to keep KD happy (or just blow it up).
 

HomeRunBaker

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Lol Tsai. Wonder about protections on those Lakers picks.

If unprotected, those picks would seemingly have more value than anything they got from the Mavs, though they probably would have had to trade them right away to keep KD happy (or just blow it up).
What a deal that would have been for Pelinka! Like the sweetest!! Add Kyrie to LeBron and AD without giving up crap while letting the next GM deal with the Lakers potential high lottery picks going to the Nets.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I get turning down the LA offer since they couldn't get usable players back, but depending on what that Suns pick(s) was, that seems like a stronger return based on the Nets roster. Then again CP3 tends to disappear come playoff time
DFS with that contract is pretty valuable imo. I can see an argument in favor of the Mavs return simply because the Nets turned an expiring asset into two players who have control beyond this season (v one)and both are younger than Paul who feels like he is finally starting to show his age. But the details matter so draft capital is a factor as well...
 

PedroKsBambino

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Lol Tsai. Wonder about protections on those Lakers picks.

If unprotected, those picks would seemingly have more value than anything they got from the Mavs, though they probably would have had to trade them right away to keep KD happy (or just blow it up).
That's the thing for the Nets, though---they have traded their own picks and have no incentive to tank, and really need to keep KD aboard. So even if value-wise the Laker offer makes sense, practically it's kind of creating an ugly few years here if they go that way.