Sure. So why didn't they offer it again in the 2022 off-season?In theory, it could have also been a move for 2023. We just saw them overpay the Mets for pitching this deadline and if the price was right, I could see how getting Sale last season for a song could make sense.
You're absolutely right, coming out at a very convenient time.Sure. So why didn't they offer it again in the 2022 off-season?
Overall though, this is 100% a smear job. It may be a truthful one, but it's very much someone on the Sox talking to a reporter and painting a negative picture of what happened. That should probably be kept in mind instead of assuming that it's completely factually correct.
They signed Eovaldi as well. They were clearly still very much hunting for starters.You're absolutely right, coming out at a very convenient time.
I would point out that they did sign DeGrom that off-season and they may have revisited talks if they missed on him.
EDITED: To the larger part, I don't think it really matters because as someone else pointed out, we don't know that ownership would have ended up letting him the savings to sign SP in the 22 off-season. Just wish casting on our part.
Sorry, I was not clear. I wasn't responding to that post in particular. Just a general sense of things.FWIW, my post means it makes zero sense for Texas to pick up an injured Chris Sale that year when there was no guarantee he'd make it back. . .and then would have to be ramped up.
It's possible that deal was offered. But it's more likely the deal was either something else, or a trial balloon or a figure of someone's imagination.
See - I think what the Sox did was actually the norm, and a team would only depart from this if they were in all-hands-on-deck, win-now-or-else mode. Most teams aren't going to toss a useful player off of the 40-man, tie up a spot on the 40-man for the offseason (when you might want to protect someone for Rule 5), and start a young player's service clock (or burn an option year) for a marginal upgrade at a backup position. The cost just isn't worth the meager payoff. Even for a team in the midst of a window, the GM has to think about the future at least a little bit.That reminds me, the other thing that was really clear from the management of the roster was that they were not trying to maximize this year - they were trying to protect the future.
They called up Caleb Hamilton & Jorge Alfaro rather than giving Ronaldo Hernandez a chance when he is clearly a much better player than Hamilton & almost certainly better than Alfaro. & it's not because they didn't know that, it's because they were prioritizing the future over this year.
Same thing with the bullpen all year... bringing up fungible guys rather than any pitcher who has a chance to be part of the future & that they would have to risk losing if they took them off the 40.
They easily could have won 2 or 3 more games this year just doing things like that. It was clear based on all those moves that they were not prioritizing winning this year, which was frustrating to me, but I assume would not be how they operated next year as their window opened.
Who are the late-90s Expos and Marlins these days?Well, here's hoping that all these super awesome trades that seem too good to be true are available for our new GM & he says "yes" when presented with these opportunities.
Carrabis verified this through the Rangers - not the Sox. Bloom definitely misjudged Sale’s ability to contribute to the 2023 team and beyond. That extra money would look very nice heading into the off-season, regardless of prospect return.
Do you think Sale's current salary matters this winter?Carrabis verified this through the Rangers - not the Sox. Bloom definitely misjudged Sale’s ability to contribute to the 2023 team and beyond. That extra money would look very nice heading into the off-season, regardless of prospect return.
How did Carrabis know to call the Rangers?Carrabis verified this through the Rangers - not the Sox. Bloom definitely misjudged Sale’s ability to contribute to the 2023 team and beyond. That extra money would look very nice heading into the off-season, regardless of prospect return.
Bradford reported the same trade as being on the table.How did Carrabis know to call the Rangers?
Also really fishy that a guy who essentially a mouthpiece for the team is breaking this, as opposed to an actual reporter like Speier, Bradford or McAdam.
Two Athletic reporters reported the same thing this morning, I can’t remember who it was and I’m not looking it up right now. I don’t think this was created out of thin air.How did Carrabis know to call the Rangers?
Also really fishy that a guy who essentially a mouthpiece for the team is breaking this, as opposed to an actual reporter like Speier, Bradford or McAdam.
Shivving someone with True Stuff is usually the best way to do it. And the Sox ownership are some of the best at shivving people on their way out.Two things can be true here: 1. Bloom blew some pretty significant decisions during his time here, which— well, that's a reason to fire someone 2. The Sox are shivving him out the door. One doesn't cancel out the other.
Can the Passan piece be construed as Chaim using the media to take control of the narrative and divert blame do ownership, then?Two things can be true here: 1. Bloom blew some pretty significant decisions during his time here, which— well, that's a reason to fire someone 2. The Sox are shivving him out the door. One doesn't cancel out the other.
I think it's pretty clear that Bloom did some really good things. & some things that aren't great. I think he set the franchise up nicely for future success overall, but I can 100% understand for several reasons it's better to get a new guy to keep the ball rolling & take the next leap.I love that the Bloomers are still defending him. If he was so good at his job, he’d still be employed. Unless you 100% believe that FSG hired him to do exactly what he did and then planned on canning him the whole time. But I personally can’t buy that argument, given how the last two trade deadlines have gone.
Extremely fair take.I think it's pretty clear that Bloom did some really good things. & some things that aren't great. I think he set the franchise up nicely for future success overall, but I can 100% understand for several reasons it's better to get a new guy to keep the ball rolling & take the next leap.
A lot of the arguments & complaints against Bloom are still ridiculous & unfounded, but there are absolutely valid criticisms, particularly inflexibility.
& if the new reports are true regarding other teams hating working with him & an insane refusal to move on from Sale, it's an even easier decision.
Even without that stuff, though, it really does make sense to move on from a guy associated with so many negative fan memories, even if he was better at that stuff than it appears he was, because his skillset isn't unique.
Bring in a new smart guy from an org that does things the right way like the Braves or Dodgers & allow the collective angst to dissipate.
I think that 90% of those you call "Bloomers" are sort of "eh" about Bloom, but dislike mouthbreathing on principle. This site having cut it's teeth on analytics - trying to see what's actually there instead of just being tribal.I love that the Bloomers are still defending him. If he was so good at his job, he’d still be employed. Unless you 100% believe that FSG hired him to do exactly what he did and then planned on canning him the whole time. But I personally can’t buy that argument, given how the last two trade deadlines have gone.
Unfortunately games aren’t won and lost on spreadsheets. They are won on an actual field. And you can f right off with the mouth breathing stuff. It’s this high horse, fan purity nonsense that has been going on for the last few years here that leads to animosity against the pro-Bloom posters.I think that 90% of those you call "Bloomers" are sort of "eh" about Bloom, but dislike mouthbreathing on principle. This site having cut it's teeth on analytics - trying to see what's actually there instead of just being tribal.
Like I said, I think most of the folks here who get labeled "Bloomers" see that Bloom had pros and cons, and nobody's going to fling themselves out of a window over his being fired. But if one is going to criticize (or praise) the guy, one really ought to try to base it in fact, not mouth-breathing emotion.Unfortunately games aren’t won and lost on spreadsheets. They are won on an actual field. And you can f right off with the mouth breathing stuff. It’s this high horse, fan purity nonsense that has been going on for the last few years here that leads to animosity against the pro-Bloom posters.
Since we are just throwing out our opinions out here on this, I completely disagree with the premise of 90%. Maybe 50% but 90% is definitely way, way too high.I think that 90% of those you call "Bloomers" are sort of "eh" about Bloom, but dislike mouthbreathing on principle. This site having cut it's teeth on analytics - trying to see what's actually there instead of just being tribal.
OK. Who are they? Name some names.Since we are just throwing out our opinions out here on this, I completely disagree with the premise of 90%. Maybe 50% but 90% is definitely way, way too high.
And F’s funny that you throw out “just being tribal” at the end there. I would say that most of the “Bloomers” are incredibly tribal
Absolutely. All sides use the media as mouthpieces to get out some of their agenda. It’s not only the big, bad Red Sox ownershipCan the Passan piece be construed as Chaim using the media to take control of the narrative and divert blame do ownership, then?
I’ll do that as soon as you name the 10% of the posters you deem the “Bloomers”OK. Who are they? Name some names.
This is a great post. The one thing that seems to be a repeated theme from respected reporters is Bloom’s inflexibility and trying to be perfect.I think it's pretty clear that Bloom did some really good things. & some things that aren't great. I think he set the franchise up nicely for future success overall, but I can 100% understand for several reasons it's better to get a new guy to keep the ball rolling & take the next leap.
A lot of the arguments & complaints against Bloom are still ridiculous & unfounded, but there are absolutely valid criticisms, particularly inflexibility.
& if the new reports are true regarding other teams hating working with him & an insane refusal to move on from Sale, it's an even easier decision.
Even without that stuff, though, it really does make sense to move on from a guy associated with so many negative fan memories, even if he was better at that stuff than it appears he was, because his skillset isn't unique.
Bring in a new smart guy from an org that does things the right way like the Braves or Dodgers & allow the collective angst to dissipate.
And I think most of the folks who get labeled “mouth breathers” aren’t 100% anti-Bloom and want a strong pipeline but also want to see actual results on the major league field instead of just hopes and dreams on prospects to come.Like I said, I think most of the folks here who get labeled "Bloomers" see that Bloom had pros and cons, and nobody's going to fling themselves out of a window over his being fired. But if one is going to criticize (or praise) the guy, one really ought to try to base it in fact, not mouth-breathing emotion.
That said. . .how would you characterize your response here?
Agreed. I’m fairly ambivalent about Bloom, but it’s really disappointing to know he had the chance to shed that contract and didn’t do it.Carrabis verified this through the Rangers - not the Sox. Bloom definitely misjudged Sale’s ability to contribute to the 2023 team and beyond. That extra money would look very nice heading into the off-season, regardless of prospect return.
I think it's pretty clear that ownership wanted (1) Bloom to deal Mookie and cut payroll so that they were under the luxury tax threshold, (2) build up the farm system so that the team could have long-term, constant success, and (3) compete for the playoffs every year.I love that the Bloomers are still defending him. If he was so good at his job, he’d still be employed. Unless you 100% believe that FSG hired him to do exactly what he did and then planned on canning him the whole time. But I personally can’t buy that argument, given how the last two trade deadlines have gone.
Jared Carrabis is the single biggest social media personality in all of baseball. He has plenty of sources all over the league.How did Carrabis know to call the Rangers?
Also really fishy that a guy who essentially a mouthpiece for the team is breaking this, as opposed to an actual reporter like Speier, Bradford or McAdam.
I can think of maybe 2, but I'm not entirely sure about them, since I know they've criticized some of Bloom's moves.I’ll do that as soon as you name the 10% of the posters you deem the “Bloomers”
Like I feel like I'm in elementary school?That said… how would you characterize your response here?
Ah yes only the enlightened fully understand. Folks here will hand waive away games lost to injury as not Bloom’s fault when he signed guys who are very injury prone or literally had injuries before they signed like Story.I can think of maybe 2, but I'm not entirely sure about them, since I know they've criticized some of Bloom's moves.
And that's the thing - there are a few people who will explain the potential upsides and downsides of Bloom doing X or Y. But I can't think of anyone who has ever argued all his moves have been successful or that Bloom should try to repeat his 2022 or 2023.
But I think there are a lot of people on this site who can't distinguish between those two things. Like if you try to figure out what Bloom's plan is, you therefore approve of it or something. Like the spreadsheet comment above.
Fair enough. Though I’m not sure why a Rangers source is coming out today and telling the world, “Bloom‘s indecision saved us from a horrible mistake!”The leak didn't come from the Sox side. It actually came from the Rangers side.
Feel free to share your full analysis with us.Ah yes only the enlightened fully understand. Folks here will hand waive away games lost to injury as not Bloom’s fault when he signed guys who are very injury prone or literally had injuries before they signed like Story.
Or folks who view Paxton as a feather in Bloom’s cap because he played for cheap money this year who also ignore that we paid him $10m last year to not throw a single pitch for the Red Sox and could have walked for nothing but felt obligated to give the Red Sox something. So kudos to Paxton.
And look maybe the prospects he got for Renfroe didnt work out but Renfroe wasn’t great. Oh wait we also took on JBJs contract. Ooops. Huge value there.
Because the Rangers don’t have to deal with Bloom any more and there’s already a pigpile on him and there’s nothing these washwomen love more than a good pigpile.Fair enough. Though I’m not sure why a Rangers source is coming out today and telling the world, “Bloom‘s indecision saved us from a horrible mistake!”
Just put me on ignore already you condescending clown.Feel free to share your full analysis with us.
This is the same point I made yesterday. Arguing against dumbfuckery aimed at Bloom isn't the same as being a "Bloomer". I'm pretty agnostic on the guy, overall. But the Usual Suspects screeching about Mookie Betts have become an embarrassment to themselves, and - more importantly - to the perception of SoSH being "better than that."I think that 90% of those you call "Bloomers" are sort of "eh" about Bloom, but dislike mouthbreathing on principle. This site having cut it's teeth on analytics - trying to see what's actually there instead of just being tribal.
No, I really do want to know. What do you actually think about Bloom.Just put me on ignore already you condescending clown.
Yes. And I'm sure most of the "Bloomers" will be accused of being "Whateverers" when the same cycle repeats itself with the next GM.This is the same point I made yesterday. Arguing against dumbfuckery aimed at Bloom isn't the same as being a "Bloomer". I'm pretty agnostic on the guy, overall.
I’ve probably been one of the loudest pro Bloom people in this thread and even I’ve outright criticized his pitching staff composition, questioned his ability to acquire premium talent, and guffawed at the Sale trade story (given the two sources I’m inclined to believe the broad strokes). I just feel like a lot of the critical thinking often present here outright disappears in this discussion.This is the same point I made yesterday. Arguing against dumbfuckery aimed at Bloom isn't the same as being a "Bloomer". I'm pretty agnostic on the guy, overall. But the Usual Suspects screeching about Mookie Betts have become an embarrassment to themselves, and - more importantly - to the perception of SoSH being "better than that."
So you ADMIT IT!!!! You're a BLOOMER!!!! And MOOKIE BETTS!I’ve probably been one of the loudest pro Bloom people in this thread and even I’ve outright criticized his pitching staff composition, questioned his ability to acquire premium talent, and guffawed at the Sale trade story (given the two sources I’m inclined to believe the broad strokes). I just feel like a lot of the critical thinking often present here outright disappears in this discussion.
Just look at my posts it’s all there. I think Bloom drafted really well. I think he’s way too into hoping oft-injured players somehow stay healthy. I think for guy who was supposedly tasked with being frugal he wasted a good chunk of money on guys like JBJ and a rehabbing James Paxton last year.No, I really do want to know. What do you actually think about Bloom.
Not what you think other people think about Bloom (which seems to be a thing with you) but what you think about Bloom. Put yourself out there like everyone else does. Use some numbers. Live a little.
It’s true. I challenged Mookie Betts to 12 frames of bowling and bowled a 400 so he signed the deal in LA out of spite. Then I did a spinarooniSo you ADMIT IT!!!! You're a BLOOMER!!!! And MOOKIE BETTS!
Here's the thing. You are walking a line that might be accurate for you in terms of moderation. But it's pretty clear which side of that line you're considering "wrong."Just look at my posts it’s all there. I think Bloom drafted really well. I think he’s way too into hoping oft-injured players somehow stay healthy. I think for guy who was supposedly tasked with being frugal he wasted a good chunk of money on guys like JBJ and a rehabbing James Paxton last year.
You want numbers? Just look at the team’s record under his tenure. I’ll give him a pass on 2020. I think they were mostly medicore in 2021 and got hot at the right time and I think 2022 and 2023 were extremely disappointing. He had a chance to build the pipeline while building the major league roster into a contender and failed at the last part so he’s gone. I wasn’t anti-Bloom so much as anti posters who think they view the game at such a higher level than the rest of us because we weren’t sold on Bloom.
Bottom line, we are a reflection of our society. We're in a shitty place where if you seek middle ground your labeled by either side or both. Yer either fer us or agin us. I've been accused of blindly following Bloom and I've had someone post that I'm clearly rooting for him to fail. And it's not just the labeling, DMs we're once away to discuss disagreements in a private, often civil way as not to derail threads. But now....Today it seems acceptable to initiate contact with "Fuck Off. If you have a beef with me, put me on ignore". We are a reflection of our society.I can think of maybe 2, but I'm not entirely sure about them, since I know they've criticized some of Bloom's moves.
And that's the thing - there are a few people who will explain the potential upsides and downsides of Bloom doing X or Y. But I can't think of anyone who has ever argued all his moves have been successful or that Bloom should try to repeat his 2022 or 2023.
But I think there are a lot of people on this site who can't distinguish between those two things. Like if you try to figure out what Bloom's plan is, you therefore approve of it or something. Like the spreadsheet comment above.