And lose out on MHJ? I can see the logic behind it for sure, but MHJ is a game changer.If the Pats have the #2 pick and don't want a QB, they should trade back with someone who does IMO.
And lose out on MHJ? I can see the logic behind it for sure, but MHJ is a game changer.If the Pats have the #2 pick and don't want a QB, they should trade back with someone who does IMO.
ACC is a lot different than WyomingAs someone who doesn't watch all that much college football during the season, how comparable is Maye's situation in college to Josh Allen's? Because we ding prospects for playing with superior talent all the time, so is this a case of not having the surrounding cast to put up Heisman winning numbers?
Sure, but they also play better competition than Wyoming, I'm asking in terms of how comparable their talent is in relation to opponents.ACC is a lot different than Wyoming
I don't think any one non-QB is really a game-changer. If I'm picking that high, I want a QB, or I want to turn it into multiple pieces.And lose out on MHJ? I can see the logic behind it for sure, but MHJ is a game changer.
I doubt it. I think Daniels is rising fast though, and that's more on how he's playing than Maye maybe coming back to him.Beginning to wonder if Drake Maye played himself outside the top 4 QBs this year. T
This is a great draft for a quarterback-needy team to own an early pick. Maye is a young player and not without his faults, but he has promising talent and more big-time throws on his tape than any other passer in this class.
2024 NFL Mock Draft: Bears take Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels crashes top 10 - The AthleticHe has a dynamic skill set to create explosive plays with his arm and legs.
At the beginning of the season, I wouldn’t have guessed that Daniels would appear in the top 10 of my first mock draft. But in studying his tape and seeing his continual improvements, you start to run out of reasons why he doesn’t belong. I think several teams slotted in the top 10 will think the same way.
They have some good talent. Devontez Walker is a stud and future NFL player. Their RB Hampton is having a big year and he looks good to me. Not really sure about the OL but it’s not like Maye doesn’t have anything to work with.Sure, but they also play better competition than Wyoming, I'm asking in terms of how comparable their talent is in relation to opponents.
I like MHJ.... I don't think he's the best WR prospect in 25 years by a mile, and he'd have to be that to be worth taking over a QB or over the haul you get for a top 2 QB tradeup. Even then I probably wouldn't do it. A Jamar Chase type can't miss stud is awesome.... but he doesn't do much if your QB or line are bad. I'd much rather get more assets and take Franklin, Thomas, Egbuka or something in the 2nd or trade to late 1st for a slider (Odunze?)... or sign Tee Higgins. I think the value of a QB whether you take him, or you turn him into another top 6-8 pick plus a bunch of other assets is way higher than MHJ. You might even get your stud WR in the trade down (like Moore last year).And lose out on MHJ? I can see the logic behind it for sure, but MHJ is a game changer.
Their O-line is not that good, particularly compared to the lines of the guys putting up top numbers (Penix, Nix).They have some good talent. Devontez Walker is a stud and future NFL player. Their RB Hampton is having a big year and he looks good to me. Not really sure about the OL but it’s not like Maye doesn’t have anything to work with.
UNC was ranked around 20 in the pre-season and fell out of the top 25 after a lack luster season. They obv aren't an LSU/BAMA/Michigan but do have some talent. Their D was pretty horrendous but Maye had a disappointing season any way you look at it. His stats across the board are down this season compared to last. I like Josh Downs but if Maye's #s were impacted that much from losing Downs I'd be concerned.As someone who doesn't watch all that much college football during the season, how comparable is Maye's situation in college to Josh Allen's? Because we ding prospects for playing with superior talent all the time, so is this a case of not having the surrounding cast to put up Heisman winning numbers?
Walker and Maye really didn't start playing football together until like October of this year. Walker started his college career at NC Central, then played 2 seasons at Kent State, before transferring to UNC. The NCAA denied him eligibility when the season started, claiming he was a 2 time transfer even though he never played a snap for NC Central. They reversed their decision in early October, after he missed the first 4 games or so of the season, so they've really not had a ton of time to work on chemistry.They have some good talent. Devontez Walker is a stud and future NFL player. Their RB Hampton is having a big year and he looks good to me. Not really sure about the OL but it’s not like Maye doesn’t have anything to work with.
I see your argument here, and gun to head I think trading out of top 3 is probably the move, but stud WR has become the 2nd most individually important position in the NFL. If they don't go QB (lord help me) I think I'd rather see them go WR R1 and OT R2. Although this draft feels deeper at WR then OT, getting a truly elite WR1 instead of a solid WR 2 feels like a bigger gap in impact then the gap between an elite OT like Fashanu and solid OT's a bit farther down the board.I like MHJ.... I don't think he's the best WR prospect in 25 years by a mile, and he'd have to be that to be worth taking over a QB or over the haul you get for a top 2 QB tradeup. Even then I probably wouldn't do it. A Jamar Chase type can't miss stud is awesome.... but he doesn't do much if your QB or line are bad. I'd much rather get more assets and take Franklin, Thomas, Egbuka or something in the 2nd or trade to late 1st for a slider (Odunze?)... or sign Tee Higgins. I think the value of a QB whether you take him, or you turn him into another top 6-8 pick plus a bunch of other assets is way higher than MHJ. You might even get your stud WR in the trade down (like Moore last year).
Their O-line is not that good, particularly compared to the lines of the guys putting up top numbers (Penix, Nix).
One thing worth noting... it isn't Solid WR 2 vs. Elite WR 1. Guys drafted late 1st and early 2nd are often also WR 1s. Maybe you don't get Chase, but you can get a WR 1 there.I see your argument here, and gun to head I think trading out of top 3 is probably the move, but stud WR has become the 2nd most individually important position in the NFL. If they don't go QB (lord help me) I think I'd rather see them go WR R1 and OT R2. Although this draft feels deeper at WR then OT, getting a truly elite WR1 instead of a solid WR 2 feels like a bigger gap in impact then the gap between an elite OT like Fashanu and solid OT's a bit farther down the board.
Bust rates need to be considered here- I believe WR's bust at a higher rate then OT's; at the very least I feel like they have higher variance in rookie contract production- but when you are down as bad as the Pat's are, you need to take some swings to get back to playoff contention.
I think Hampton is more of a sure thing than Walker actually. Total stud. Kind of like Rham but better in the A gap.They have some good talent. Devontez Walker is a stud and future NFL player. Their RB Hampton is having a big year and he looks good to me. Not really sure about the OL but it’s not like Maye doesn’t have anything to work with.
You forgot to include Harry and Thorton in those Solid WR 2 lists.One thing worth noting... it isn't Solid WR 2 vs. Elite WR 1. Guys drafted late 1st and early 2nd are often also WR 1s. Maybe you don't get Chase, but you can get a WR 1 there.
Here are guys drafted between 25 and 55 recently:
2019- Hollywood Brown, Deebo Samuel, AJ Brown
2020- Aiyuk, Higgins, Pittman
2022- CHristian Watson, Pickens
2023- Jayden Reed
Lot of those guys are more #1 or very top end #2 type guys.
Busts are busts, they happen. The point was more, the idea that you only get #1 WRs in the top 5 or top 10 isn't particularly accurate, many WR 1s get drafted late.You forgot to include Harry and Thorton in those Solid WR 2 lists.
Saw another comparison to Big Ben.I love the kid, but obviously, there are months and months and months of scouting and pro days and combines still to come, so who knows. Right now, he reminds me more of Josh Allen than anyone.
Exactly. #1 WR doesn't really mean everything. This team needs an X, a legit one.#1 WR aren't really game changers without the QB either. Garrett Wilson is a great receiver but it doesn't really translate into wins for the Jets. Same for Chris Olave in New Orleans. You need the guy to get them the ball in order for them to be game changers. Chase isn't nearly as impactful without Burrow.
I voted MHJ in the poll originally but I think I'm now a QB or trade down voter.
I like the thought on Big Ben as a thrower, and a guy who can move around is tough to bring down in the pocket, but Maye is a different guy in space. Way more athletic than Big Ben, who ran a 4.75 at the combine. I suspect we'll see Maye around 4.60, maybe lower.Saw another comparison to Big Ben.
On the field.
Yeah, it's quite possible they said Big Ben, but more athletic. I'm sure we'll see lots of comparisons. Evan Lazar compares him to Justin Herbert.I like the thought on Big Ben as a thrower, and a guy who can move around is tough to bring down in the pocket, but Maye is a different guy in space. Way more athletic than Big Ben, who ran a 4.75 at the combine. I suspect we'll see Maye around 4.60, maybe lower.
In fairness this is a terrible example. ‘91 was a one QB draft and the Patriots passed on that QB twice with the picks they got for Russell Maryland (three times if you include the fact that when that QB went on the market (because the Falcons already had Chris Miller) they declined to trade for him). Overall ‘91 was just a pretty bad draft.I think people confused the media’s need to cover a horse race with an actual debate among front offices. Manning was always going to be the #1 pick. The hype for Manning was monstrous. Leaf was something to talk about for the months leading into the draft. And that was during the glory days of sports talk radio. There needed to be a debate that generated takes.
I’m of the opinion that a franchise in need should always take the QB if a legitimate one is available. I mean we’ve seen our very own Pats execute both approaches.
In 1991 the traded away the #1 pick to disastrous results.
In 1993, with far from a finished team, they took Bledsoe.
Herbert is the comp Dane Brugler uses too. Dane has him as the #1 player on his board.Yeah, it's quite possible they said Big Ben, but more athletic. I'm sure we'll see lots of comparisons. Evan Lazar compares him to Justin Herbert.
Yeah, if they don't like the top two guys, I'm not one to judge. But to draft a non-QB in that spot is insane.If the Pats have the #2 pick and don't want a QB, they should trade back with someone who does IMO.
(1) They're not passing on Williams, if only because they're not getting to #1 (barring a trade, anyways)What will this board look like in a couple of years if the Pats pass on both Williams and Maye, and one or both of them becomes a stud? We will clearly never get over the loss of Mookie but if they pass on these guys they better get the Dallas/Hershel Walker haul.
I share this dream. I watch a lot of Michigan games, and JJ has all the tools. He needs some more experience (the wolverines don’t air it out much), but his character and work ethic are off the charts. He’s a way way better player than Nix was at the same ageTrade the #3 overall to Arizona to get the LT Fashanu at 4 and my Binkie JJ McCarthy ~ 20 with the Texans pick is kind of my dream scenario.
For sure. It was a truly lousy first round. I’m just speaking to the broader case of trading down to get pieces instead of a QB. There’s QBs to be had this year. We need one. Don’t overthink it if we have a chance to land one.In fairness this is a terrible example. ‘91 was a one QB draft and the Patriots passed on that QB twice with the picks they got for Russell Maryland (three times if you include the fact that when that QB went on the market (because the Falcons already had Chris Miller) they declined to trade for him). Overall ‘91 was just a pretty bad draft.
If the Pats get a potential QB1 AND Odunze in the first round, its run through the wall time for me - obviously we ARE dreaming.Draft Williams or Maye at #2 overall.
Draft Malik Nabers or Joe Alt or Rome Odunze at #9 overall (LAC -> NE for Bill Belichick).
A man can dream.
“What the fuck? He drafted a corner named Kool-Aid!!!??”The Pats ending up with a top 3 pick will result in this board being the most angry we have ever been with a draft. It’s basically guaranteed.
Then again, there will be a mad, exhilarated scramble to be the 78533798th person to make the 534909643327898322nd joke about Bill trading a first rounder for 30 7th rounders so he can take 25 long snappers, 4 players from D-II schools, and trade the last pick for a 2026 6th rounder. Who would wanna miss that? It gets funnier and more clever by the telling.The Pats ending up with a top 3 pick will result in this board being the most angry we have ever been with a draft. It’s basically guaranteed.
2. Arizona Cardinals: Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State
Another embattled quarterback under an organizational microscope: Kyler Murray, as he returns from last season’s injury. Neither Arizona general manager Monti Ossenfort nor head coach Jonathan Gannon drafted Murray or signed him to his lucrative extension, which creates plenty of unknowns for this franchise. But we do know that a trade of Murray is unlikely — who’d trade for that contract? — and cutting him would be easier to stomach a year from now.
In this scenario, I have them keeping Murray (and his hefty contract) for at least one more season.
Last year, the Cardinals drafted an Ohio State offensive tackle in the top 10, and they go back to Columbus for one of the best wide receiver prospects of the last few decades. This pick would come on the 20-year anniversary of Arizona selecting Larry Fitzgerald at No. 3 in 2004, which is interesting because Harrison reminds me of a leaner version of Fitzgerald.
https://theathletic.com/5096030/2023/11/29/nfl-mock-draft-2024-caleb-williams-drake-maye-bears-cardinals/3. New England Patriots: Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina
With their quarterback situation in shambles, the Patriots have a bottom-five offense.
In his 24 years as head coach in New England, Bill Belichick has never drafted in the top five, but this season is certainly trending in that direction. That’s the bad news. The good news? This is a great draft for a quarterback-needy team to own an early pick. Maye is a young player and not without his faults, but he has promising talent and more big-time throws on his tape than any other passer in this class.
Williams is definitely better than Stroud but Stroud is better than Maye.How do Maye and Williams compare to Stroud as prospects at this point in their careers? I don’t remember him being talked about in awed tones, but he’s having the kind of impact I imagine we’re all dreaming of.
Probably not possible as the Bears will want to move on from Fields. And the Pats have too many other holes to give up all their remaining draft capital.I want Caleb and only Caleb. I wonder what it would take to move from 2 to 1.
I don’t think this is true. I think the general consensus is that Maye and Williams are both the best QB prospects since LawrenceWilliams is definitely better than Stroud but Stroud is better than Maye.
At the very least I remember Brugler and others saying around draft time last year that Young/Stroud/Richardson would all be behind Williams and Maye.I don’t think this is true. I think the general consensus is that Maye and Williams are both the best QB prospects since Lawrence
Correct. I think there’s some recency bias going on with Stroud since he’s been good in the NFLAt the very least I remember Brugler and others saying around draft time last year that Young/Stroud/Richardson would all be behind Williams and Maye.
On the plus side, he's a player willing to run through walls for you.“What the fuck? He drafted a corner named Kool-Aid!!!??”
If Carolina wins a game or two and the Pats are at #1 how about if they trade their #1, their second-round pick this year or next year's first-round (or both) to Chicago for both their first round picks and Justin Fields? Pats get two top ten picks, one of which is MHJ, and a QB. Bears get their guaranteed slot to draft Williams or Maye as the Pats won't want either. I don't see the Bears finishing ahead of (or behind, depending on your perspective) the Giants, and if the Cards decide to move on from Murray then they'll miss out on both.Probably not possible as the Bears will want to move on from Fields. And the Pats have too many other holes to give up all their remaining draft capital...
The speculation on Fields recently was he would get back an early 3rd maybe. So not insane, but also I don't think trading out of the full rookie deals of Williams/Maye for 1 year of Fields (2 if you commit to the $23M option) makes any sense. In that type of scenario (the unlikely one of CAR winning 2 games and CHI being set on one QB at all costs) I think you trade down with picks take the other of the top 2 QBs then add Alt/Fashanu at the Bears pick. Overall though, my guess is CHI would also rather have 2 of the top 5 players in this draft than the #1 pick. However, seems highly likely they'll be lucky enough to get both.If Carolina wins a game or two and the Pats are at #1 how about if they trade their #1, their second-round pick this year or next year's first-round (or both) to Chicago for both their first round picks and Justin Fields? Pats get two top ten picks, one of which is MHJ, and a QB. Bears get their guaranteed slot to draft Williams or Maye as the Pats won't want either. I don't see the Bears finishing ahead of (or behind, depending on your perspective) the Giants, and if the Cards decide to move on from Murray then they'll miss out on both.
Is that lopsided/ ridiculous? Or is Fields established as worthless?
I’m guessing you didn’t watch Monday nights gameIf Carolina wins a game or two and the Pats are at #1 how about if they trade their #1, their second-round pick this year or next year's first-round (or both) to Chicago for both their first round picks and Justin Fields? Pats get two top ten picks, one of which is MHJ, and a QB. Bears get their guaranteed slot to draft Williams or Maye as the Pats won't want either. I don't see the Bears finishing ahead of (or behind, depending on your perspective) the Giants, and if the Cards decide to move on from Murray then they'll miss out on both.
Is that lopsided/ ridiculous? Or is Fields established as worthless?
All Monday night told me about Fields is that he's not going to be in Chicago, and that coaching staff shouldn't be either. When you talk about not setting a player up to succeed that is it. I don't think Fields processes well enough to be an NFL starter, but a gameplan where you all but announce you won't throw downfield is insane against a defense that wants to blitz all the time, even more so when one of your QB's better skills is his ability to buy some time then let it rip.I’m guessing you didn’t watch Monday nights game