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ehaz

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Cotillo is on twitter saying this is more evidence of the Sox acting like a small-market team. So I guess people can actually get paid to act like CHB commenters and misinterpreting some words from somewhere to match the thoughts in your head. It's an ancient story of humanity's failings, I know. Or he just doesn't understand "evidence." Anyway I refuse to link to his twitter. [Edit] Well there it is! Soxhop beat me to it.
"But according to one person with knowledge of the talks, the Red Sox prefer to tackle other areas of the roster and reduce payroll before committing to the free agent."

Why is Cotillo wrong to tweet that? Ken Rosenthal and Jen McCaffrey are essentially confirming his reporting from earlier in the week that the Sox want to keep reducing payroll before signing someone.

I suppose you could say the right interpretation is not that they need to cut before they spend for any FA, but for Teoscar specifically because they've got money earmarked for a potential Shota Imanaga contract before that [the "tackle other areas" part]. But still. Couldn't a big market team afford a 1-year deal for Lucas Giolito, another mid-tier SP, and Teoscar without needing to cut payroll? It's not a totally unfair observation.
 

dynomite

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Yeah, that’s a good point. Besides the Dodgers, what teams are actually spending this offseason? Most teams aren’t very active so far.
I wonder how this stacks up to prior years. I think because half of the top 10 free agents by CBS's rankings are still available it feels like most teams are sitting still, but further down the list of notable free agents there's been a fair amount of activity: Cardinals gave Sonny Gray $25M AAV, the Phillies gave Aaron Nola $24.5M AAV, the DBacks gave ERod $20M AAV, while Giolito, Seth Lugo, Wacha, Gurriel and Montas are all making ~$15M from various teams.

This list might feel different once Snell, Montgomery, Hader and others start to sign.
 

Auger34

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Well, I think the key point, one that nobody wants to hear, is that the Sox are looking to reduce payroll before they make any other FA signings. It’s come up in several reports and is usually dismissed as being fake news, but seems like there could be a there there.
Yeah, basically every reporter who covers the Red Sox or baseball has said different variations of this and it somehow turns into a pile on on Chris Cotillo.
He’s said it, McAdam has said it, Speier said it, now Rosenthal and McCaffrey said it.

Maybe it’s agents spreading false rumors but this is widespread at this point. I know none of us want to hear it but let’s not pretend like it’s one rogue writer saying it
 

chrisfont9

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"But according to one person with knowledge of the talks, the Red Sox prefer to tackle other areas of the roster and reduce payroll before committing to the free agent."

Why is Cotillo wrong to tweet that? Ken Rosenthal and Jen McCaffrey are essentially confirming his reporting from earlier in the week that the Sox want to keep reducing payroll before signing someone.

I suppose you could say the right interpretation is not that they need to cut before they spend for any FA, but for Teoscar specifically because they've got money earmarked for a potential Shota Imanaga contract before that. But still. Couldn't a big market team afford a 1-year deal for Lucas Giolito, another mid-tier SP, and Teoscar without needing to cut payroll? It's not a totally unfair observation.
It's a fine distinction. There are some suggestions that they are interested in reductions here or there, but they aren't very concrete and they sound more like what we see in the Athletic, that it is about flexibility. The Cotillo point is that they are altering their behavior to become Tampa North, which is an exaggeration of, again, pretty lightly sourced quips and comments.
 

Auger34

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Maybe, but what else would a GM say to an agent in this kind of situation? Totally guessing here, but I don’t think Breslow (or anyone) would say, We’re interested in Teoscar, but we have got to secure a trade for Duran/Yoshida first.
No, but he 100% could say

“We have interest in Teoscar but we have to move some money around first. Please keep us up to date on his offers and if he’s close to signing anything. We want him on the team.”
 

chawson

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"But according to one person with knowledge of the talks, the Red Sox prefer to tackle other areas of the roster and reduce payroll before committing to the free agent."

Why is Cotillo wrong to tweet that? Ken Rosenthal and Jen McCaffrey are essentially confirming his reporting from earlier in the week that the Sox want to keep reducing payroll before signing someone.

I suppose you could say the right interpretation is not that they need to cut before they spend for any FA, but for Teoscar specifically because they've got money earmarked for a potential Shota Imanaga contract before that [the "tackle other areas" part]. But still. Couldn't a big market team afford a 1-year deal for Lucas Giolito, another mid-tier SP, and Teoscar without needing to cut payroll? It's not a totally unfair observation.
One question is whether they simply want to clear players — and Cotillo is framing it as payroll for purposes of his story.

It would not be untrue! But Cotillo never quoted anyone in his original piece (even anonymously), and since he’s doing a ton of other informed speculation, this could be all it means.
 

Auger34

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It's a fine distinction. There are some suggestions that they are interested in reductions here or there, but they aren't very concrete and they sound more like what we see in the Athletic, that it is about flexibility. The Cotillo point is that they are altering their behavior to become Tampa North, which is an exaggeration of, again, pretty lightly sourced quips and comments.
How do you know that it’s lightly sourced? Multiple people have hinted at it or outright said it, including some of the best baseball reporters around.

He also never said “Tampa North”, just that they aren’t behaving as a big market club.

I get that you don’t like the message but this is a pretty crazy twisting of what has been said and tweeted to make the messenger look bad
 

Rovin Romine

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Remember your ancient history 101?
In the religion of ancient Rome, a haruspex[a] was a person trained to practise a form of divination called haruspicy,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haruspex#cite_note-2 the inspection of the entrails[c] of sacrificed animals, especially the livers of sacrificed sheep and poultry.
-wiki
That's what Sosh has been doing for over a month, at least. It's kind of cute.
Um. . .@InsideTheParker, be safe with that avatar of yours, OK?
 

chawson

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Yeah, basically every reporter who covers the Red Sox or baseball has said different variations of this and it somehow turns into a pile on on Chris Cotillo.
He’s said it, McAdam has said it, Speier said it, now Rosenthal and McCaffrey said it.
Where has Speier said that they’ve indicated they need to trim payroll? His most recent story (post-Sale trade) says nothing like it.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/01/03/sports/some-early-takeaways-job-craig-breslow-is-doing-red-sox-chief-baseball-officer/?p1=StaffPage

Because the Sale deal was consummated at roughly the halfway point of the offseason, it could be one of a number of interlocking gears in a broader strategy. That stands in contrast to the Betts/Price trade, which occurred so late in Chaim Bloom’s first offseason that the free agent market — particularly for starting pitchers — was thoroughly picked over.

That’s not the case now. The Sox can still spend on a bat such as Teoscar Hernández as well as sign or trade for a starting pitcher. They still have money — roughly $40 million to spend while remaining comfortably below the luxury-tax threshold of $237 million, if that is a goal. Possibilities remain.

“There’s plenty of time left in the offseason,” said Breslow. “There are still plenty of opportunities that we continue to engage in, both in free agency and the trade market.”
 

nvalvo

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If you want something, pay for it. Otherwise you're a thief. There's not really a ton of grey area here.

And, uhh, no, the Athletic will not be fine. Are you remotely familiar with the financial state of journalism today?
They were sold to the NYT. I think they're okay. (I also subscribe, because it's worth the money.)
 

Dewey'sCannon

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I think most of this "reporting" is designed simply to generate clicks on their websites. They know that "Team X is interested in Player Y" is overplayed and tired, so they go with the negative spin to get you to read the story. A hot stove variation of "if it bleeds, it leads."

I'm willing to wait to see what happens before I get all worked up about who they will or won't sign. I don't think any of this is coming directly from Red Sox sources - it's other teams or agents, who certainly have their own agendas on these matters. (as do the writers, as noted above)
 

chrisfont9

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How do you know that it’s lightly sourced? Multiple people have hinted at it or outright said it, including some of the best baseball reporters around.

He also never said “Tampa North”, just that they aren’t behaving as a big market club.

I get that you don’t like the message but this is a pretty crazy twisting of what has been said and tweeted to make the messenger look bad
Who are those reporters quoting? It's never anything convincing, which makes me think agents, and it's never even hinted that this is coming from the Sox. The latest Athletic piece is probably the best indication of what's actually there, since it's from Rosenthal and their beat writer, and at least "someone with knowledge of the talks" -- but they aren't saying "OMG IT'S A CHANGE IN THEIR SPENDING!" like the more shrill sources are. They are saying they want to pair a major free agent signing with some savings. That's probably good business, not some sea change. If people are reading a change from big market club behavior into that, that's baseless supposition.
 

Auger34

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I don't have a Globe subscription and my free articles are done. Maybe @SouthernBoSox (he posted about it here) can help me out here but the first Speier article written after Sean McAdam's "big market" piece said something similar.
 

Sprowl

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What’s the difference of me doing that or one of the guys in this forum posting all the key quotes from the article into this thread? I think The Athletic will be fine.
Posting 1-2 key quotes with link (even if paywalled) is OK; posting the whole article or even all the key quotes is not.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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One question is whether they simply want to clear players — and Cotillo is framing it as payroll for purposes of his story.
This is a very good point. The 40-man is full. The number of DFA-able guys is arguably small, at least if you assume that none of the pitching flotsam Breslow has acquired so far are going to be that quickly dumped. So it could well be that Breslow wants to make roster space with a trade before he makes too many free agent moves. Nothing to do with the money at all.
 

chrisfont9

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I don't have a Globe subscription and my free articles are done. Maybe @SouthernBoSox (he posted about it here) can help me out here but the first Speier article written after Sean McAdam said that they weren't looking to spend as a "big market" said something similar.
Right, and IIRC that was pretty vaguely linked to "industry sources" or something like that. Might be proven right in the end but it is vague, could easily be from agents who are NOT honest brokers, they are negotiators, and we won't really know until we see the results. That's what I mean by lightly sourced. It might be right but they aren't giving us much reason to depend on what is said. [I may be thinking too much like a lawyer.]
 

YTF

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"But according to one person with knowledge of the talks, the Red Sox prefer to tackle other areas of the roster and reduce payroll before committing to the free agent."

Why is Cotillo wrong to tweet that? Ken Rosenthal and Jen McCaffrey are essentially confirming his reporting from earlier in the week that the Sox want to keep reducing payroll before signing someone.


I suppose you could say the right interpretation is not that they need to cut before they spend for any FA, but for Teoscar specifically because they've got money earmarked for a potential Shota Imanaga contract before that [the "tackle other areas" part]. But still. Couldn't a big market team afford a 1-year deal for Lucas Giolito, another mid-tier SP, and Teoscar without needing to cut payroll? It's not a totally unfair observation.
I think it's the addition of this..." more evidence of them not acting like the big-market team they are. Period." that makes him look like a tool. The market has been slow AF and while we all wait for bigger moves to come, Breslow has been busy. Is there any reason not to think that moving more payroll can put them in a better position to make another two or three big moves and still keep them in a position to still be at or near the luxury tax? Let's remember, there are guys we want to extend as well.
 

mikcou

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One question is whether they simply want to clear players — and Cotillo is framing it as payroll for purposes of his story.

It would not be untrue! But Cotillo never quoted anyone in his original piece (even anonymously), and since he’s doing a ton of other informed speculation, this could be all it means.

That is not what the article that he is responding to says. It pretty clearly says that the source says they want to clear salary not just players. Maybe Jen Mccaffrey and Ken Rosenthal are completely changing the nature of what their source said, but there's a ton of smoke here that the Sox have a budget that is lower than 1st LT threshold, never mind the second.
 

Cassvt2023

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This front office has shown that it doesn't leak so far. Did anyone hear whispers about the Verdugo trade w/ Yankees, O'Neil coming from ST Louis, or Sale heading to ATL? A lot of it is to garner clicks. Some of it is agents just doing there jobs to get the most for their clients. Much of it is just sloppy and or lazy reporting. It's fun to read about it all and speculate, but until I see an actual confirmed deal come across my MLB.com app, this is all just silly season.
 

chrisfont9

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I think it's the addition of this..." more evidence of them not acting like the big-market team they are. Period." that makes him look like a tool. The market has been slow AF and while we all wait for bigger moves to come, Breslow has been busy. Is there any reason not to think that moving more payroll can put them in a better position to make another two or three big moves and still keep them in a position to still be at or near the luxury tax? Let's remember, there are guys we want to extend as well.
Right, that is pure exaggeration on his part, and real journalists guard their credibility more carefully than this. He's not even slightly critical when it comes to supporting his narrative. Highly suspect if you ask me.
 

chawson

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I don't have a Globe subscription and my free articles are done. Maybe @SouthernBoSox (he posted about it here) can help me out here but the first Speier article written after Sean McAdam's "big market" piece said something similar.
Here’s what he wrote in the section you’re remembering, on Dec. 24.

A bit of context for that strategy: According to The Associated Press, a record eight teams carried payrolls that exceeded the $233 million luxury tax threshold in 2023. The Sox were not among them. According to a major league source, the team finished 2023 with a payroll (as calculated for luxury tax purposes) of $225.7 million, 3 percent below the threshold.

The 2023 season marked the third straight year and 10th time in 17 seasons that Sox spending was within 5 percent (either above or below) of the luxury tax threshold. That said, the team finished no higher than 10th in spending as calculated for luxury tax purposes — its lowest rank in the ownership tenure of Fenway Sports Group.

The fact that the Sox no longer rank among the top few spenders in baseball has led to questions throughout the industry about their willingness to outbid other teams for top-end talent, and uncertainty about the level of the team’s involvement on this winter’s top two remaining starters — Snell and Montgomery. At least in the immediate aftermath of Yamamoto’s signing, the team seemed most active with the next tier of free agents.
So, no. Not at all similar to the Sox are telling agents they need to cut payroll. There are “questions throughout the industry about their willingness to outbid other teams for top-end talent” — implying Ohtani, Yamamoto, Snell and Montgomery — and there is uncertainty about their level of involvement on Snell and Montgomery.

I am quite sure that agents and other GMs have questions about whether the Red Sox are willing to outbid other teams, like always.
 

Auger34

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Right, and IIRC that was pretty vaguely linked to "industry sources" or something like that. Might be proven right in the end but it is vague, could easily be from agents who are NOT honest brokers, they are negotiators, and we won't really know until we see the results.
None of us know the truth or who the sources are but all of the journalists associated with this club have said similar things. It's not just Chris Cotillo (which some people here are saying), it's not just MassLive (so Cotillo and McAdam), it is all of them.

Maybe it's good business, maybe they will spend more. I don't know. I am just tired of everything that's written that's remotely critical of the Red Sox being turned into everyone shitting on the person who wrote it and that the writer is the second coming of CHB.
 

soxhop411

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That is not what the article that he is responding to says. It pretty clearly says that the source says they want to clear salary not just players. Maybe Jen Mccaffrey and Ken Rosenthal are completely changing the nature of what their source said, but there's a ton of smoke here that the Sox have a budget that is lower than 1st LT threshold, never mind the second.
Uh. Those can be interchangeable. Moving someone like david price (a player) also involves moving salaries
 

NickEsasky

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So we're basically at "if a reporter says something that doesn't fit my view of the team it's fake news" on SoSH now.
 

mikcou

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Uh. Those can be interchangeable. Moving someone like david price (a player) also involves moving salaries
Not really. Reducing salary can also reduce 40 man spots, but reducing guys on the 40 man doesnt necessarily clear salary. For example trading Yoshida can clear a roster spot and salary. Trading Bryan Mata can only do one of those (clear a spot).

The wording clearly says they are looking at the first rather than the second. Now, people can feel free to attack the source or the report (noting that at this point were are basically at the top of baseball reporters who have this), but people cant make up what the report actually says.
 

jmanny24

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So we're basically at "if a reporter says something that doesn't fit my view of the team it's fake news" on SoSH now.
it's been that way all offseason. Cotillo has been a solid reporter for people to quote up until now, but suddenly he's this clickbait, negative CHB type? C'mon just because one doesn't agree with his opinion of the offseason doesn't make him wrong (or right so far this winter.
 

YTF

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So we're basically at "if a reporter says something that doesn't fit my view of the team it's fake news" on SoSH now.
Answering only for myself, when Cotillo adds, " more evidence of them not acting like the big-market team they are. Period." the report becomes more of an opinion piece. IMO, news is (or at least should be) more based in facts. At this point we are far from knowing what this team's payroll is going to be.
 

chrisfont9

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it's been that way all offseason. Cotillo has been a solid reporter for people to quote up until now, but suddenly he's this clickbait, negative CHB type? C'mon just because one doesn't agree with his opinion of the offseason doesn't make him wrong (or right so far this winter.
What we are challenging is people taking vague info and vague sources and exaggerating about what it means. Is it really too fine of a distinction? This is an intelligent forum, I think people can understand it.
 

Auger34

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Here’s what he wrote in the section you’re remembering, on Dec. 24.



So, no. Not at all similar to the Sox are telling agents they need to cut payroll. There are “questions throughout the industry about their willingness to outbid other teams for top-end talent” — implying Ohtani, Yamamoto, Snell and Montgomery — and there is uncertainty about their level of involvement on Snell and Montgomery.

I am quite sure that agents and other GMs have questions about whether the Red Sox are willing to outbid other teams, like always.
I never said "telling agents that they need to cut payroll". I said he said something similar to McAdam who had said that they weren't going to be "big spenders".

The first two paragraphs of that section you quoted make me think that his "industry sources" don't believe the Red Sox are going to spend up to the luxury tax this year....which dovetails nicely with the Athletic article of Teoscar not being top priority (that would be a pitcher) and therefore they need to cut salary to sign him. Which is what Cotillo means when he says they aren't spending like a big market team (which in his estimation is going up to the luxury tax)
These are all very similar reports, the biggest difference being that Cotillo is being way more brazen about it with his tweets.

I don't know if they are right. I am not going to argue about the state of journalism or sources and their agendas, I understand all of that.

I just think it's ridiculous to pretend like any journalist or beat writer covering the team is making shit up or doesn't know what they are talking about because people don't like the specific content. None of these writers are like CHB or John Tomase and it's unfair to categorize them as such because we don't like the message.

EDIT: And I have no idea if the journalists will end up right or wrong. I just trust that they are relaying to us what the chatter is right now. Let's hope that they are all wrong and we blow through the first luxury tax apron and improve the roster
 

jbupstate

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it's been that way all offseason. Cotillo has been a solid reporter for people to quote up until now, but suddenly he's this clickbait, negative CHB type? C'mon just because one doesn't agree with his opinion of the offseason doesn't make him wrong (or right so far this winter.
I refuse to believe the Boston Red Sox run by FSG has a goal to be a mid market team. Point in time. Any reporting X’ing, Tweeting such is full of shit.

They paid Devers last year and were in on Yamamoto. Wasting money for business people is stupid. Even the owner most committed to winning isn’t spending foolishly this year.
 

chrisfont9

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I never said "telling agents that they need to cut payroll". I said he said something similar to McAdam who had said that they weren't going to be "big spenders".

The first two paragraphs of that section you quoted make me think that his "industry sources" don't believe the Red Sox are going to spend up to the luxury tax this year....which dovetails nicely with the Athletic article of Teoscar not being top priority (that would be a pitcher) and therefore they need to cut salary to sign him. Which is what Cotillo means when he says they aren't spending like a big market team (which in his estimation is going up to the luxury tax)
These are all very similar reports, the biggest difference being that Cotillo is being way more brazen about it with his tweets.

I don't know if they are right. I am not going to argue about the state of journalism or sources and their agendas, I understand all of that.

I just think it's ridiculous to pretend like any journalist or beat writer covering the team is making shit up or doesn't know what they are talking about because people don't like the specific content. None of these writers are like CHB or John Tomase and it's unfair to categorize them as such because we don't like the message.

EDIT: And I have no idea if the journalists will end up right or wrong. I just trust that they are relaying to us what the chatter is right now. Let's hope that they are all wrong and we blow through the first luxury tax apron and improve the roster
Yeah, that's not a bad summary IMO. Cotillo pushing it doesn't sit well with me, but I guess that's a matter of taste.
 

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Answering only for myself, when Cotillo adds, " more evidence of them not acting like the big-market team they are. Period." the report becomes more of an opinion piece. IMO, news is (or at least should be) more based in facts. At this point we are far from knowing what this team's payroll is going to be.
Yes. The full twitter quote is: "Yoshida bit is interesting and Breslow is surely listening. With that said, more evidence of them not acting like the big-market team they are. Period."

In response to Rosenthal's article promoting: "Teoscar Hernández in? Masataka Yoshida traded? Red Sox weighing moves. With
@ jcmccaffrey"

Breslow listening to people who may be interested in Yoshida is in no way, "evidence of them not acting like the big-market team they are."

That's just absurd.
 

jmanny24

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I refuse to believe the Boston Red Sox run by FSG has a goal to be a mid market team. Point in time. Any reporting X’ing, Tweeting such is full of shit.

They paid Devers last year and were in on Yamamoto. Wasting money for business people is stupid. Even the owner most committed to winning isn’t spending foolishly this year.
I don't have an opinion either way because I don't think we have all of the information. It's just that some of the responses come of as (IMO) any reporting that doesn't jive with ones view is garbage, isn't trustworthy etc. Much in the way (again IMO) at the beginning of the Patriots season the way people reacted when some brought up this being the last season for Belichick, and fast forward 18 weeks and the tide turned there.
 

Auger34

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Yes. The full twitter quote is: "Yoshida bit is interesting and Breslow is surely listening. With that said, more evidence of them not acting like the big-market team they are. Period."

In response to Rosenthal's article promoting: "Teoscar Hernández in? Masataka Yoshida traded? Red Sox weighing moves. With
@ jcmccaffrey"

Breslow listening to people who may be interested in Yoshida is in no way, "evidence of them not acting like the big-market team they are."

That's just absurd.
He's referring to the content of the article. Specifically the bit that has been posted here a few times about how the rumor is that they need to cut salary to sign Teoscar (presumably after they sign a starting pitcher)

EDIT: @ehaz has it posted in bold at the top of this page
 

Rovin Romine

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He's referring to the content of the article. Specifically the bit that has been posted here a few times about how the rumor is that they need to cut salary to sign Teoscar (presumably after they sign a starting pitcher)

EDIT: @ehaz has it posted in bold at the top of this page
We know that how? The burden is on Cotillo to specify what he means.

But let's say that's actually his intent. What facts can we bring to bear on the situation? The Sox are currently $45M under the threshold. They have a glut of OFs including a promising rookie (Abreu), a somewhat duplicative RHB in O'Neill (whom they traded for) and a bat first player (Yoshida) who is signed to a long contract. Teoscar is a defensively challenged RF.

Put the rumor in the context of the actual facts we have. . .and hey, maybe it's not "evidence that they're not acting like a big market team."

Because (I will post it in bold, since that seems to matter) "big market teams" do what exactly in this situation?

What is the norm they are violating in Cotillo's mind?


View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WWRsQNsGZkWuJZwlY8--xVBXMJGjh230D45KiHTHuvY/edit#gid=1520401900
 

Auger34

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We know that how? The burden is on Cotillo to specify what he means.

But let's say that's actually his intent. What facts can we bring to bear on the situation? The Sox are currently $45M under the threshold. They have a glut of OFs including a promising rookie (Abreu), a somewhat duplicative RHB in O'Neill (whom they traded for) and a bat first player (Yoshida) who is signed to a long contract. Teoscar is a defensively challenged RF.

Put the rumor in the context of the actual facts we have. . .and hey, maybe it's not "evidence that they're not acting like a big market team."

Because (I will post it in bold, since that seems to matter) "big market teams" do what exactly in this situation?

What is the norm they are violating in Cotillo's mind?


View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WWRsQNsGZkWuJZwlY8--xVBXMJGjh230D45KiHTHuvY/edit#gid=1520401900
I think it's just common sense since he linked to the article and listening to Yoshida trades doesn't have anything to do with payroll.

I am not sure what you are getting at with the rest of your post and I don't really have an interest in litigating it or the Cotillo tweet anymore. IMO, it's pretty clear he's referring to the Hernandez and cutting payroll thing
 

NickEsasky

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We know that how? The burden is on Cotillo to specify what he means.

But let's say that's actually his intent. What facts can we bring to bear on the situation? The Sox are currently $45M under the threshold. They have a glut of OFs including a promising rookie (Abreu), a somewhat duplicative RHB in O'Neill (whom they traded for) and a bat first player (Yoshida) who is signed to a long contract. Teoscar is a defensively challenged RF.

Put the rumor in the context of the actual facts we have. . .and hey, maybe it's not "evidence that they're not acting like a big market team."

Because (I will post it in bold, since that seems to matter) "big market teams" do what exactly in this situation?

What is the norm they are violating in Cotillo's mind?


View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WWRsQNsGZkWuJZwlY8--xVBXMJGjh230D45KiHTHuvY/edit#gid=1520401900
I can’t speak for Cotillo but it could be as simple as a big market team would get the guy they want and deal with the logjam after the fact.
 

Rovin Romine

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I can’t speak for Cotillo but it could be as simple as a big market team would get the guy they want and deal with the logjam after the fact.
Is that what they actually do? Like if you're replacing one OF/DH bat on a long contract with another? You just sort of wing it? Or eat the salary?

It's possible, but you'd have to show the work. Give some examples and the like.
 

Auger34

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Not really. Reducing salary can also reduce 40 man spots, but reducing guys on the 40 man doesnt necessarily clear salary. For example trading Yoshida can clear a roster spot and salary. Trading Bryan Mata can only do one of those (clear a spot).

The wording clearly says they are looking at the first rather than the second. Now, people can feel free to attack the source or the report (noting that at this point were are basically at the top of baseball reporters who have this), but people cant make up what the report actually says.
100% agree
 

NickEsasky

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Is that what they actually do? Like if you're replacing one OF/DH bat on a long contract with another? You just sort of wing it? Or eat the salary?

It's possible, but you'd have to show the work. Give some examples and the like.
Show my work? Yeah let me just peruse 50 years of baseball transactions and I’ll get back to you.
 

A Bad Man

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My annoyance with the "big market team" rhetoric is its reductiveness. First, "big market team" is not clearly defined and therefore highly subjective. Is it a team that goes over the luxury tax every year? Every other year? By a certain amount? More than the Mets? Or Dodgers? How much do the Red Sox have to spend to justifiably represent their status as a "big market team"? Is it more a feeling? A splashy move? Do we need to have a poll? Secondly, and perhaps most tiresomely, is the fact that we still have many weeks to complete transactions. Judging the offseason at any point before the offseason is over, without the appropriate caveats, is either lazy, sensationalistic, or both.
 

brandonchristensen

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Getting rid of Masa would suck. His first several months were great, and he was an exciting sign last year. I was looking forward to him coming back with a full offseason with the club and mashing the entire year. Hopefully that's just a baseless rumor to get clicks.
 

chawson

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Here’s another instance of Cotillo just kind of like, weirdly hammering his angle to the point of suspending his (and our) intelligence. It’s a video clip of the Masslive podcast he tweeted on the 28th, he and McAdam discussing the rumors about “overspending for Teoscar Hernández” (McAdam). I’ll link here and transcribe:

Cotillo: “I find this to be a strange kind of pursuit. He does make your lineup better, he does make your team better, but he's adding to a place in the outfield where you’re already kind of set. To me, that would just mean that one of the young outfielders has to get traded…I don’t think it makes a ton of sense for them to go out and get an outfielder on a long-term deal — Teoscar Hernández from what I’ve heard is seeking four years.

Just, add a starter! It’s not that hard. You’re okay in the outfield. You’ve got a lot of controllable pieces, you’ve got more balance now with O’Neill than Verdugo. To me, you’re set there. This seems to me kind of maybe a chess not checkers thing, or the moves down the line are not there yet, but to see them aggressive after a position player at this point (is) not exactly what I would have predicted, but it is the case.”
i think this illustrates what Cotillo does. He’s providing baseball content, driving it even. But he’s not reporting on the Red Sox. He’s reporting on Red Sox fan frustration.

The above is certainly not a wrong opinion to hold. But it seems remarkably goofy to me for a mainstream Red Sox reporter to not recognize that the plan is to use an outfielder in a trade, likely for a starting pitcher.

I’m definitely not the sort that wants journalists to do just the facts or anything like that. But this seems just like, goofy in its antagonism: “Just sign a starter, it’s not that hard…”, plus as a bonus, a little anti-intellectual barb with the line about Breslow playing “chess not checkers.”

Again, it’s a totally defensible opinion to not want to trade Duran (or Yoshida or Rafaela or Abreu) for any reason. But for a Sox beat reporter to take this kind of approach, knocking the potential signing of a guy who “makes your lineup better” because you can’t be bothered to entertain the idea that we’d trade for a starter. It’s not a good faith effort to understand or report the process here. It’s framing the story from a starting point of complaint, derision, scrutiny.

His whole routine lately strongly suggests Boras’s influence, to me. The implication is that the Sox really need to outbid the field for one of Montgomery or Snell. Those are good players, but it’s certainly not the only way forward.

Of course, days later, we literally do sign a starter — one of the top 8-10 or so on the board — and he hits us the next day with another story about the Sox being cheap.
 

NickEsasky

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I mean you realize that when he’s hosting a podcast he’s a podcast host trying to entertain listeners not acting as a reporter right? Like he can wear two hats. I’m not even saying he’s right or wrong I’m just pushing back against the notion that if a reporter is saying something negative against the Sox they are lying.
 

chrisfont9

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Here’s another instance of Cotillo just kind of like, weirdly hammering his angle to the point of suspending his (and our) intelligence. It’s a video clip of the Masslive podcast he tweeted on the 28th, he and McAdam discussing the rumors about “overspending for Teoscar Hernández” (McAdam). I’ll link here and transcribe:

i think this illustrates what Cotillo does. He’s providing baseball content, driving it even. But he’s not reporting on the Red Sox. He’s reporting on Red Sox fan frustration.
The bolded. That's the job now, and I get it, but I could not be less interested. We've seen at least one report about agents steering players away from Boston because of all the negativity, for what that's worth.

I mean you realize that when he’s hosting a podcast he’s a podcast host trying to entertain listeners not acting as a reporter right? Like he can wear two hats. I’m not even saying he’s right or wrong I’m just pushing back against the notion that if a reporter is saying something negative against the Sox they are lying.
Eeehhhh... I think the top reporters wouldn't do this. Maybe there are enough people already on entertainment corner or being straight reporters and Cotillo is caught in the middle, but it's a tricky place to be, because he *isn't* Carrabis so when he shit-talks it's not going to land the same. Similar with Pete Abe, who is supposed to be a beat reporter but has a long history of inserting his little grudges and barbs. I guess maybe that's all OK and it's on me to tune them out like they're the next CHB, but if you are posturing as a reporter, you should guard your integrity the way you see Rosenthal, Callis, and many others do. If you put on that second hat, I don't know if you can swap it back out for the first one so easily. [My wife reported on politics for a while. She wouldn't vote, and said none of her colleagues would either, on principle.]

This is turning more into a media topic so maybe it should get sent over there. We really need more actual roster moves, soon.
 

NickEsasky

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The bolded. That's the job now, and I get it, but I could not be less interested.


Eeehhhh... I think the top reporters wouldn't do this. Maybe there are enough people already on entertainment corner or being straight reporters and Cotillo is caught in the middle, but it's a tricky place to be, because he *isn't* Carrabis so when he shit-talks it's not going to land the same. Similar with Pete Abe, who is supposed to be a beat reporter but has a long history of inserting his little grudges and barbs. I guess maybe that's all OK and it's on me to tune them out like they're the next CHB, but if you are posturing as a reporter, you should guard your integrity the way you see Rosenthal, Callis, and many others do. If you put on that second hat, I don't know if you can swap it back out for the first one so easily.

This is turning more into a media topic so maybe it should get sent over there. We really need more actual roster moves, soon.
The same Rosenthal who called the Red Sox his goofs of the week a few weeks ago?
 

lexrageorge

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When I hear the phrase "one source with knowlege of the negotiations", and the rest of the sentence implies the players is not receiving the offer he asked for, I can think of one, and only one, possibility of who that "one source" is. Hint: it's not someone who works for the Red Sox.

Rosenthal did not say if this source actually heard this bit of info about wanting to cut payroll directly, or if this source was making an inference based on how the negotiations are going so far.

Should we see where things stand when pitchers and catchers report before declaring the Red Sox operating as a small market team?
 
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