New Britain Rock Cats Moving To Connecticut's Armpit

Papo The Snow Tiger

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Probably only Connecticut SOSH'ers would care about this, and probably most of them won't give a shit, but the New Britain Rock Cats, the AA affiliate of the Twins, announced they're moving to a new stadium that's to be built in the north end of Hartford for the 2016 season. I'm ripping pissed about it. One of my favorite things is to go to a Rock Cats game, especially with my 8 year old daughter on a Sunday afternoon. New Britain Stadium is very convenient, easy in, easy out, and not too far from home. It's also a very beautiful stadium, only 20 years old. There's nothing wrong with it. There's a parking lot surrounding the stadium, and it's only $5 to park. Attendance in New Britain is not a problem either, they're in the middle of the pack for Eastern League attendance and sold out last weekend.The problem is, yet again, greedy owners. It's like they never cared about the fans since they bought the team, they're only trying to make a quick buck. I used to see the old owner at all the games. I haven't seen the new clowns at all the last two years. The new site in Hartford is at the north end of town, and traffic will be horrendous, especially on weeknights. There's no parking lot planned either, so suckers going to a game can look forward to paying $15 to $20 to park in a city lot and then look forward to walking the streets of Hartford in the dark after the game. There's now way I'll ever step foot in that new stadium, I'll drive to either Norwich or Bridgeport to see a game. I'd rather spend the money on gas than put another nickel in Josh Solomon's pocket. Thanks for letting me vent.
 

OCST

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This sucks.  I grew up in the area.  I now live in NYC and it's been a while since I've been to a NB game, but I go once in a while when visiting family (my 10-year-old niece loves it).
 
Nothing to add but I agree 100% with your positive view of the current park and the fact that this sucks.
 

sittingstill

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Sea Dogs fans in southern New England would care, too. New Britain and Portland are equidistant from my house. They had a nice little park there--been to several Portland road series. 
 

Traut

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I travel all over the state - all the time. The armpit of Connecticut is Waterbury. 
 

The Flying Dutchman

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I was saddened to hear this as well - It was a convenient place to catch a game on a summer night.
 
I remember watching the New Britain Red Sox play in the same location as a kid. I have gone to see Pedroia, Jacoby, and recently Mookie and Swihart play there.
 
I am a little excited for a new stadium to bring a little life to hartford but I'll reserve judgement until I see the plans.
 

mabrowndog

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Orange Julia said:
CT's armpit is Norwich.
 
hittery said:
No, it's Bridgeport. Jesus.
 
Trautwein's Degree said:
I travel all over the state - all the time. The armpit of Connecticut is Waterbury. 
 
As a former resident of Bloomfield, I can speak to the evils of North Hartford. It was pretty awful then ('88-'90) and I'm betting it hasn't improved. I'd like to hope that a new stadium there might spawn some redevelopment of the surrounding area, but that's probably a pipe dream. It certainly never happened in and around City of Palms Park down in Fort Myers.
 
But as a former resident of Town Plot, the only decent part of the city of Waterbury (and still protected by old-world Mafia), I hereby concur with the right honorable attorney. The vast majority of Waterbury is an absolute pit.
 
Condolences to the New Britain fans. First the Stanley Tools/Black & Decker merger (with subsequent layoffs), and now this. I guess N.B. is destined to become the new Bristol.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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$60 million for a new stadium, the city is bleeding money already because of the ridiculous salaries and benefits given to city employees and retirees.
 
Plenty of gross body parts for CT cities like Hartford, Bridgeport, Waterbury, New Britain, Norwich, etc....armpits, sweaty balls, stinky feet.
 

steveluck7

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mabrowndog said:
 
 
 

 
Condolences to the New Britain fans. First the Stanley Tools/Black & Decker merger (with subsequent layoffs), and now this. I guess N.B. is destined to become the new Bristol.
I did go to grad. school @ CCSU. Maybe it's time to work on my bodycount
 

1918stabbedbyfoulke

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The entire state is an armpit. There is not a straight stretch of interstate highway in the whole state. Did you know that "Connecticut" is an old Algonquin Indian word that means "impediment"?
 

mabrowndog

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Oh, and since there were no links about this in the opening post, here's one.
 
The Courant has reported that the Eastern League affiliate of the Minnesota Twins has agreed to sign a 25-year lease with the city beginning in 2016 if Hartford builds a new baseball stadium.
 
City council members met with Mayor Pedro Segarra, Corporation Counsel Saundra Kee Borges and Development Director Thomas Deller, among others, Tuesday evening. Segarra asked council members for their support to build the 9,000-seat stadium, the sources said.
 
Council members who spoke on the condition of anonymity said Segarra has at least five votes for several proposals related to the new stadium, including buying the land at Main and Trumbull streets just north of downtown. At least five council members must vote in favor of a resolution for it to pass. Those resolutions are expected to be considered at Monday's council meeting.
 
The sources declined to disclose how much the stadium would cost, but said city bond money would be used to pay for it. They said the city is planning to call a press conference Wednesday to disclose more details.
 
The Rock Cats' current $110,000-a-year lease with the city of New Britain runs through Dec. 31, 2015. The Rock Cats, a Double A team affiliated with the Minnesota Twins, play in the Eastern League.
 
Two city officials said Monday that a tentative deal had been reached for the team to relocate to Hartford, but that a finalized agreement had not been signed.
 
People with knowledge of the situation said Hartford could contribute millions to the effort. Gov. Dannel P. Malloy's office has declined to comment on the prospective deal – and a spokesman for the state Department of Economic and Community Development, James Watson, said Tuesday that the agency is "not involved in any way."
 
The obligatory "clueless politicians denying & backtracking" portion of our program:
 
New Britain Mayor Erin E. Stewart has dismissed the possibility of the team's moving to Hartford.
 
On Tuesday, she maintained her display of confidence, saying that the team's general manager, Tim Restall, had "assured me 'no, this is not true' " in a phone conversation the previous night. She said that the team's relationship with the city is so strong that "I find it very hard to believe they would do this … without speaking to me."
 
However, Restall's account of the conversation was less definitive.
 
In response to a phone message informing him of what Stewart had said, Restall emailed The Courant Tuesday afternoon to "clarify my conversations with Mayor Stewart yesterday. We actually had two quick conversations. As GM, I'm focused on day to day game operations, I told the Mayor I was surprised at the news reports and that I knew nothing of it. We talked briefly that we had a great weekend at the ballpark. That was it."
 
Restall did not respond to a subsequent email asking if it was possible that Solomon could have been talking or negotiating with Hartford officials without informing Restall.
 
Sources said the Rock Cats also considered moving to Springfield, and that the negotiations to move the team to Hartford were in part an effort to keep the franchise in Connecticut.
 
Officials on Tuesday said the Rock Cats approached Hartford leaders about 17 months ago with the idea of moving to the city.
 
The obligatory "Connecticut Baseball History Lesson" chapter:
 

Minor league baseball was last played in Hartford in 1952. The then-Boston Braves had an affiliate, the Hartford Chiefs, who played at Bulkeley Stadium in the South End. When the Braves moved to Milwaukee in 1953, the farm team also moved.
 
The Eastern League has had franchises in Waterbury, West Haven, Bristol, New Haven and Norwich, but by far the most successful and enduring has been New Britain.
 
The Red Sox moved their farm team from Bristol to New Britain in 1983. Joe Buzas, a longtime minor league owner, had control of the team until 1999.
 
New Britain Stadium opened in 1996 and seats 6,146.
 
When a group led by Bill Dowling bought the franchise in 2000, the team found new life. It has set attendance records nearly every year.
 
Dowling's affiliation with the team ended this spring. New Britain Double Play LLC, led by Solomon and his siblings, Jim Solomon and Jennifer Goorno, assumed control of the franchise from Dowling.
 

And finally, the obligatory "Confirming Papo's Attendance Reports" segment:
 
Attendance has never been a problem in New Britain.
 
The Rock Cats just drew more than 21,000 to New Britain Stadium this past weekend, a team record for a three-game series.
 
 

Doug Beerabelli

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Worked in Waterbury, lived in Meriden, although near Southington border. Spent time traveling to court in Hartford, Bridgeport, New Haven, New Britski, Torrington, etc.

Hartford is the Connecticut of armpit.

I'm sure all the New Britain residents will hop on the new busway to go to games.
 

mabrowndog

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I didn't notice that the Courant article I posted was from yesterday. Here's another report from today, now that they've actually held the dog & pony show:
 
New Britain's minor league baseball announced plans Wednesday to move about 15 miles north to Hartford, where the capital city plans to build it a $60 million stadium.
 
Josh Solomon, the managing partner of the Double-A Rock Cats and Hartford Mayor Pedro Segarra held a news conference Wednesday on the steps of Hartford City Hall to provide details of the agreement, which calls for an almost 10,000-seat stadium to be ready in time for opening day in 2016.
 
The stadium is planned for Main Street, just north of Hartford's downtown, near the intersection of Interstates 91 and 84. The team has agreed to sign a 25-year lease, officials said.
 
"The ability to provide our fans with a state-of-the art facility at the junction of two major highways in downtown Hartford was something we couldn't pass up," Solomon said.
Segarra said the stadium has the support of city council and will be built primarily with city bonding money. He said the city owns most of the land involved and has agreed to buy an additional parcel for $1.7 million. He said construction would involve shifting a section of Trumbull Street.
 
The city does not plan to add any additional parking and has been studying how to schedule games to avoid creating major traffic problems, he said.
 
Segarra estimated the new stadium would create 600 full-time jobs and 900 construction jobs, while generating about $2 million in annual revenue for Hartford.
Segarra said he anticipates other tenants using the facility, and said he hopes to get the state's "collegiate community" involved.
 

AlNipper49

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Doug Beerabelli said:
Worked in Waterbury, lived in Meriden, although near Southington border. Spent time traveling to court in Hartford, Bridgeport, New Haven, New Britski, Torrington, etc.

Hartford is the Connecticut of armpit.

I'm sure all the New Britain residents will hop on the new busway to go to games.
Yeah Bridgeport and Waterbury are no question awful places. However driving around each you notice a lot of character peeking out from the rubble of being on the bottom of the social scale. The character brought from economic booms of past, or today's incoming immigrants who maintain an admirable quality of trying to improve their adopted home no matter how large that challenge seems.

Hartford on the other hand is just fucking ugly. Most municipal buildings are of the dirty granite variety. The city is he to some level of prosperity , which promptly leaves at 5pm every day. It serves as a contrast to the depression left behind. The business that pops up around gentrified strongholds within the city aren't mom and pop bodegas which serve as community hubs, but fucking Applebee's which pays 10 bucks an hour and will fire you if your friends come to talk to you while working. Its as dead souled of a city that you'll ever find.

It even sucks driving through that shithole. Missing the exit for 84 from 91 is both easy to do and impossible to recover from.
 

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This is a complete boondoggle. Can't wait to see who gets indicted for what. Something this bad for the public doesn't happen without multiple crimes being committed. Prior to the stadium being announced, I was talking with a real estate agent in Hartford. He believes property taxes in the city will double in the next 2 to 4 years.

I've been to New Britain a number of times. Never once did I think the stadium was inadequate. It's nice.

The other shoe here is the Rock Cats rent is going up 500% from what they're paying now. Can't wait for ownership to "renegotiate" the deal with the city in 2017.

Not to mention this probably diverts money from the Civic center. Hartford will cry when a new arena gets built in East Hartford. This is a kick to the groin of the golden goose - UConn athletics.
 

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Harford County will remain exclusive minor league territory of the Rock Cats. The stadium in New Britain will largely be unused. Their best hope is luring an independent league team.

A sad day for a struggling town.
 

Average Reds

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AlNipper49 said:
Yeah Bridgeport and Waterbury are no question awful places. However driving around each you notice a lot of character peeking out from the rubble of being on the bottom of the social scale. The character brought from economic booms of past, or today's incoming immigrants who maintain an admirable quality of trying to improve their adopted home no matter how large that challenge seems.

Hartford on the other hand is just fucking ugly. Most municipal buildings are of the dirty granite variety. The city is he to some level of prosperity , which promptly leaves at 5pm every day. It serves as a contrast to the depression left behind. The business that pops up around gentrified strongholds within the city aren't mom and pop bodegas which serve as community hubs, but fucking Applebee's which pays 10 bucks an hour and will fire you if your friends come to talk to you while working. Its as dead souled of a city that you'll ever find.

It even sucks driving through that shithole. Missing the exit for 84 from 91 is both easy to do and impossible to recover from.
 
This is precisely - and I do mean precisely - my take on it.  (Although I will admit that I'm not as familiar with Waterbury, as I usually zoom by it on I84.)  As difficult as it might be to imagine, I could see Bridgeport being turned around.  There's a base there to work with, and there are sections of the city that are quite nice.  The same is true (to a lessor extent) in Waterbury.  The only thing stopping it is actual leadership and a commitment to the welfare of the towns rather than the few in power. 
 
It is worth noting that the politics of both cities are so fucked up that there's no way this change will happen in our lifetime.  Still, I can dream.
 
I can't dream about Hartford, as it has nothing.  An empty waste land with no soul where all the wealth packs up and leaves at night.  The north end is particularly awful unless your vision of heaven is strip malls, strip joints and check cashing facilities side-by-side.
 
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to echo what some people said, this sucks. The Rock Cats ... in New Britain ... is a good time. The move to Hartford sucks.

Anyhow, there's no way Waterbury is the armpit. And I love Nip, the gold coaster's take on Waterbury (awful place???). Have you even lived there or spent more than a minute there outside of asking directions at an off exit convenience store? Bunker Hill, Town Plot, area over by Holy Cross, etc. - its nice. Yes, being that its a city and not a town, they have an urban area. But outside of that ...

Now Hartford, thats a different story.
 

Average Reds

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HillysLastWalk said:
to echo what some people said, this sucks. The Rock Cats ... in New Britain ... is a good time. The move to Hartford sucks.

Anyhow, there's no way Waterbury is the armpit. And I love Nip, the gold coaster's take on Waterbury (awful place???). Have you even lived there or spent more than a minute there outside of asking directions at an off exit convenience store? Bunker Hill, Town Plot, area over by Holy Cross, etc. - its nice. Yes, being that its a city and not a town, they have an urban area. But outside of that ...

Now Hartford, thats a different story.
 
I don't think you know where Nip lives.
 
Edit:  Or maybe I don't.  But I wouldn't consider either of us gold coasters by any means.  I also don't think his take on Waterbury was uncharitable, but YMMV.
 

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Hartford's always tried the "one quick fix" attempt at urban renewal.  The Civic Center, Adrian's Landing, etc.  But people drive into the city, do their thing, then drive out.  
 
Providence makes for an interesting contrast (if you wind the clock back to the 70s/80s) - the city invested locally, in zones that encouraged foot traffic.  Mostly cultivating art galleries, small retail, etc.  That ended up anchoring large retail.
 
The cities aren't mirror images of each other, so that's something of a simplification, but Hartford never really seemed to want to put people on the ground after business hours.  That said, Hartford could have a lot going for it, if it were used properly. 
 
BTW, we always just called it "the north end" not "North Hartford."  Is that a new thing?
 
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Average Reds said:
I don't think you know where Nip lives.
 
Edit:  Or maybe I don't.  But I wouldn't consider either of us gold coasters by any means.  I also don't think his take on Waterbury was uncharitable, but YMMV.
I agree that he had a good take on the architecture, and the character. I was just commenting specifically on "awful place". Which is a tad extreme, well, unless you are stuck at the bottom of Willow st, or over by Walnut st!! I dont want you to think Ive taken offense, or didnt see the good in what he was saying.

And you may be right. But from being a member here for 14 years now, I got the impression it was along 95 somewhere between fairfield and norwalk, or maybe one of those towns between danbury and 95 (the name of the road/route is escaping me). But I could be wrong, no doubt.
 

AlNipper49

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HillysLastWalk said:
to echo what some people said, this sucks. The Rock Cats ... in New Britain ... is a good time. The move to Hartford sucks.

Anyhow, there's no way Waterbury is the armpit. And I love Nip, the gold coaster's take on Waterbury (awful place???). Have you even lived there or spent more than a minute there outside of asking directions at an off exit convenience store? Bunker Hill, Town Plot, area over by Holy Cross, etc. - its nice. Yes, being that its a city and not a town, they have an urban area. But outside of that ...

Now Hartford, thats a different story.
 
1. I also note Bridgeport, which is actually on the "gold coast"
2. It's not just a city with a bad urban area.  It has horrific crime rates (easily top 10 crime index) and a disatrous school system.  If towns like Waterbury, Bridgeport and Hartford, which lead in violent crimes not an "armpit" then what is.  New haven hasn't been mentioned yet but they are up there in crime rates.  Head on down to Stamford
3. All shit towns have good areas.  Bridgeport has a boatload, which are largely ethnic strongholds akin to Waterbury.  That doesn't mean that they're nice towns.  I grew up in a pretty good area of Lawrence, MA.  That doesn't mean the town isn't something out of a Mad Max movie.  
4. I'm very familiar with Waterbury,  I spent maybe a month there looking at investment property. 
5. Bunker Hill that you mention first in nice areas I saw a number of places and couldn't find any property turnover due to the local schools being absolutely burnt out husks of organizations.  
 

AlNipper49

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HillysLastWalk said:
I agree that he had a good take on the architecture, and the character. I was just commenting specifically on "awful place". Which is a tad extreme, well, unless you are stuck at the bottom of Willow st, or over by Walnut st!! I dont want you to think Ive taken offense, or didnt see the good in what he was saying.

And you may be right. But from being a member here for 14 years now, I got the impression it was along 95 somewhere between fairfield and norwalk, or maybe one of those towns between danbury and 95 (the name of the road/route is escaping me). But I could be wrong, no doubt.
 
Yeah I live in basically the last white trash stronghold in Fairfield County.   
 
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Hey, Im seeing the good now ... all the pissed off people in New Britain can now take the new busway from New Britain to Hartford to see the Rock Cats! Malloy ... economic genius!!
 

Plantiers Wart

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How about we call it "NoHa" and that should draw people in.
 
Bad idea.  Finances don't add up, city can't afford to build it with all the budget woes they already have. There has to be state money involved, but that won't come out until after the election. 
 
And why is it a good idea to pay 500% more for rent, when you are sharing concessions and getting nothing from parking?  If this place seats 9,000, that's only 1500-2000 seats more than they already fill.  If they sell out every game, they can probably bring in $1 million more in ticket sales.  Half of that goes to the higher rental.  Buy does anyone think they are going to sell out every game?
 

Plantiers Wart

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But the busway does not get you to the stadium - or even to downtown  Hartford.  The last stop is going to be by the Courant/State Armory, and then there will be a "turnaround" near Bushnell  Park, but not a stop.  That leaves you with a good 15 minute walk at least to get obver to the stadium area.   And supposedly there is some talk of a soccer team interested in hartford?  So they can screw this all up by making a mulitsport stadium that will have no charm/appeal. 
 
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AlNipper49 said:
1. I also note Bridgeport, which is actually on the "gold coast"
2. It's not just a city with a bad urban area.  It has horrific crime rates (easily top 10 crime index) and a disatrous school system.  If towns like Waterbury, Bridgeport and Hartford, which lead in violent crimes not an "armpit" then what is.  New haven hasn't been mentioned yet but they are up there in crime rates.  Head on down to Stamford
3. All shit towns have good areas.  Bridgeport has a boatload, which are largely ethnic strongholds akin to Waterbury.  That doesn't mean that they're nice towns.  I grew up in a pretty good area of Lawrence, MA.  That doesn't mean the town isn't something out of a Mad Max movie.  
4. I'm very familiar with Waterbury,  I spent maybe a month there looking at investment property. 
5. Bunker Hill that you mention first in nice areas I saw a number of places and couldn't find any property turnover due to the local schools being absolutely burnt out husks of organizations.
Oh yeah, no doubt the school systems are poor. Suburban waterburians send their kids to schools like Kaynor Tech, or the private Catholic schools.

I do think Waterbury is a good place to buy your first house if you dont have kids and are priced out of other areas (which is easy to do on the western side of CT). The mill rate sucks donkey balls but the price per sq ft is awesome. And the location is superb. 30 minutes from everywhere (bridgeport, danbury, hartford, torrington, etc)

I was also just good naturedly chiding you with the gold coast comment!
 

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HillysLastWalk said:
Oh yeah, no doubt the school systems are poor. Suburban waterburians send their kids to schools like Kaynor Tech, or the private Catholic schools.

I do think Waterbury is a good place to buy your first house if you dont have kids and are priced out of other areas (which is easy to do on the western side of CT). The mill rate sucks donkey balls but the price per sq ft is awesome. And the location is superb. 30 minutes from everywhere (bridgeport, danbury, hartford, torrington, etc)
 
No offense, but it's a really, really bad place to purchase a home.  There is very little chance of appreciation and it's tough to sell a house there.  If it's your first house you may get stuck in an awful mess when/if you have a kid and are forced to sell before the kid reaches school age.   Mill rate as you say sucks but insurance also blows. This is what fits the Dave Ramsey profile of "some people are better off renting than buying" -- if you're purchasing in Waterbury then you probably should be renting.  Period.  
 
 If you're measuring on price per square foot then you're better off purchasing a smaller place in an area which you can flip it more easily and you might make a buck or two in the process which is also central to those locations (and I appreciate that - we lived in Norwalk for a few years for its same location flexibility, albeit with slightly different destination profile).  Southbury (currently tremendous upside), Cheshire, Prospect.  A simple stat that I use is home owner occupied property %.  Tenants don't improve properties or areas.  Places like Waterbury have horrible non-occupied rates so from that simple metric you don't expect things to even come close to turning around on a dime, even if it's economic profile changes.  These kind of changes can sometimes take decades to swing, not the profile for potential home purchases. 
 
This is also in line with why Hartford is so soul-less.  Waterbury and Bridgeport both do have ethnic strongholds where home ownership is kind of a misleading statistic.  The Portugese in Bridgeport or Armenians in Waterbury have a tremendous ability to circle the wagons around themselves.  You could be driving through a fucking horrid area of Bridgeport then all of a sudden find yourself in a clean, safe-seeming area that looks like it came off of a 1960s postcard.  Chances are it's one of these ethnic enclaves.  But it's not really a place where you look to flip a house.  It's a place where you buy if you have 12 other family members who want to move in close proximity to you (or have inherited the same houses generation after generation).
 
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Really nice post. You have a good take on things.

I could be biased based on my own experience. Maybe I should change that to a good place to buy if its not at the height of the bubble (or buying near the bottom). During the recent bubble, Waterbury lagged behind every desirable city for a while there. So in 2003 (?), I bought my first house. Two years and 20k in improvements later, I was selling it for for a large profit in the height of the market. Thank you Waterbury! Maybe I was just in the right place at the right time.

Cant stress enough how much I loved the location.  Also, I don't think the elementary schools are bad at all (as they reside in your neighborhood).  It's middle school on up to high school you have to worry about.  So, someone without kids, not buying at the market height, would have a good 12+ year time-frame to utilize cheap housing (example: 1 yr for pregnancy, 5 years preschool, k-thru 6).
 

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As a resident of northwestern CT, while I can't say that this seems like a "good idea" in any objective sense of the word, I'll admit that I am somewhat excited at the prospect of minor league baseball within easy driving distance. I grew up going to Pittsfield Mets games in Western Mass, and while the baseball wasn't good and neither was the city, at least it was something. I'm sure this will be a disaster, and parking will be terrible, and I probably won't go more than once or twice a season, but just having the option is nice.
 

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Sadly, the decaying city movie is playing throughout the region.
 
I'm born and raised in Waterbury and think that Nip has given a pretty good overview on the current state of affairs in the former Brass City.  I would add the Town Plot Italian neighborhood as another example of an ethnic stronghold.  I was raised in Bunker Hill and pretty much spent every summer break 'working' for the local Eastern League entry from batboy through PA and radio work. I attended St. Mary School in downtown and for eight years (our parish church required an almost mille walk to the center of the city to attend mass) and watched the decay take hold and envelop the city as the manufacturing base crumbled.  It has yet to be replaced.  In 7th grade, they started bringing mass to us and only letting 7th and 8th graders make the walk to serve at the daily 12:10 mass because the core was becoming too "dangerous" to walk. 
 
The political leadership and intestinal fortitude required to lead the city back is lacking.  The current state of Municipal Stadium renovation work serves as an excellent example of this.
 http://www.rep-am.com/news/local/doc5373acefc5865417827050.txt 
 
When it comes to political corruption and the sick and twisted abuse of power to violate children sexually, Waterbury is a bastion of success.  Joseph Santopietro, Philip Giordano and John Rowland have not only each been convicted of various crimes,  they are also all alums of my high school, Holy Cross.  Their contributions to public service are no longer celebrated in the front lobby trophy case.
 
http://www.connecticutmag.com/Connecticut-Magazine/June-2013/Political-Corruption-in-Connecticut-Corrupticut-Abides/
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/28/nyregion/the-nutmeg-state-battles-the-stigma-of-corrupticut.html
 
When I visit, I can still see what WTBY was (it was even better when my parents were young during the City's peak of industrial success), am sickened by what it currently is, and can't see much of a future.  I hope that changes, but it will be a slow process.  As HLW points out, location is an asset, one of the few the city has going for it and one even the politicians can't screw up, I think. 
 
During my returns, I enjoy family, friends, pizza, hot dogs, ice cream and similar to KO's view of Bristol, the sight of the clock tower in my review mirror.
 
AR, if you're "zooming" through WTBY you can't be driving east bound on I-84, unless you are using a helicopter.
 
Back on topic, I remember when the Sox left Bristol and moved to NB and played at the Hive. They threw that aluminum erector set up in a flash.  The "new" stadium is an obvious improvement and is more than adequate to host Eastern League baseball well into the future.  I'd love to look at the financial plan where the team is projecting revenue growth to cover the insane rent increase of making the move to Hartford.  
 

Traut

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A fantastic post about how the residents of Hartford were screwed behind closed doors.
 
In Hartford, where there is a perpetual struggle to balance the City’s budget, residents are raising questions about who will be funding the stadium, a legitimate question when poor maintenance of parks and other spotty services are explained by the lack of funds. Recently, the Martin Luther King Elementary School was told there was no bond money available to fund repairs for the school.
 
 
I was at City Hall this morning. The talk around the water coolers was overwhelmingly in opposition to this deal.
 

Traut

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Lose Remerswaal said:
Would it make sense for the Norwich team to move to New Britain?  Bigger park, easier access, etc.  
Can't happen because the Rock Cats have exclusivity in Hartford County.
 

Traut

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Plantiers Wart said:
How about we call it "NoHa" and that should draw people in.
 
Bad idea.  Finances don't add up, city can't afford to build it with all the budget woes they already have. There has to be state money involved, but that won't come out until after the election. 
 
And why is it a good idea to pay 500% more for rent, when you are sharing concessions and getting nothing from parking?  If this place seats 9,000, that's only 1500-2000 seats more than they already fill.  If they sell out every game, they can probably bring in $1 million more in ticket sales.  Half of that goes to the higher rental.  Buy does anyone think they are going to sell out every game?
PW, come on man. Part II of this act by the Rock Cats ownership is to claim poverty in year 2 or 3, threaten to fold the team, and "renegotiate" the lease.
 
This thing was more secret than the Manhattan Project. As you're well aware, Hartford is a small town and full of small town gossip. Everyone who is doing something knows everyone else who is doing something. No one I knew, even people I would expect to know, had any idea this was happening.
 

MuzzyField

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Trautwein's Degree said:
Can't happen because the Rock Cats have exclusivity in Hartford County.
Territorial exclusivity actually worked well for me.  This is what keeps the Sox from having a Florida State League team in Ft. Myers (Twins) and "forced" them to play in Sarasota when I lived there in the 90's.  
 

Moosey

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No new parking fucking kills me. That place will absolutely draw less.
 

Doug Beerabelli

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Great assessments of Waterbury.  Worked there two year back in mid late 90s.   Firm was in a lovely victorian mansion on Buckingham Street - Hillside area.   I drove Pine St and Willow to get there, drove by many hookers with the 1000 yard stare.   Our building was lovely - a former Chase family bastion, likely 8K sq feet, had a former carriage house for the many cars.   And it was worth about $250K.    I was scared to to venture too far out from the property, and was always nervous when being the the last person to leave at night.   But Boulevard area on Hillside had some really nice places - you could see the glory of it, and what it must have been like during the time of the brass barons.   My kid plays baseball games on turf fields next to municipal stadium - looks like no work has been done on it for year.   The municipal golf courses aren't horrible (East Mtn and Western Hills), either and are in pretty good areas (whch of course border better towns like Prospect and Watertown).
 
 
Downtown got a lot of money, which is good, but courthouse and govt. buildings only add so much character.   The Palace renovation was incredible - great venue to see shows.   Town Plot, Bunker Hill are viable enclaves, with ethnic character, nice neighborhoods.   CC of Waterbury is very nice, and a unique (par 69) old Donald Ross course.   People who can afford to will send kids to catholic schools from elementary on up - one of our partners did that with all his kids.   Some good restaurants spread throughout the city.   My dad's business was in the South End, closer to Naugatuck, and I tried to avoid driving South Main into the city at night.   North end is to be avoided, too.   Big geographical area compared to Hartford.   And that's what killed Hartford - not somehow holding onto or sucking in the surrounding suburbs as official parts of the city.   Most big US cities have that component (at least non NE non colonial era ones).   All the $ departs the city to go home to to Glastonbury, Farmington, WHart, Avon, Simsbury etc. at night.  Waterbury has some "suburbs" built in, and more of the money stays.
 
If I had to live in one of those cities, I'd choose Waterbury over Hartford.    Stamford and Norwalk or New Haven I'd prefer over those two, though.
 

mabrowndog

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So here's the stadium site. It's not as far north as I originally thought before seeing the cross streets in the later article. It's just north of the westbound lanes of I-84. On the southern side of the highway, the Civic (XL) Center is less than a quarter-mile from the site.
 
Definitely not much of a chance to further develop the area. Clockwise from upper left you've got a bunch of dilapidated 3-story brick buildings on Main Street, Barnard Brown Elementary School, the Rensselaer-Hartford campus, the 300 Windsor complex for Travelers Insurance, a vacant office building (covering the block between Trumbull, Windsor, Pleasant & Market streets), and the 18-story Crowne Plaza Hotel. So there doesn't appear to be much of a chance for any complementary redevelopment.
 
 

MuzzyField

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I don't think this project, if it actually happens (a big if), will impact in any way eventually replacing the XL Center.  The money for that is going to be driven by the State and it's going to be all about UCONN basketball.  Proximity to the State Capitol Building will be a factor as well.  These folks like convenience when it comes to attending games.   It wasn't an accident that the legislature limited the capacity of the on-campus Pavilion, they wanted all the important games to still be played at the much larger XL Center and not out in the sticks in Storrs.  Same thinking went into the football stadium process as well.
 

Average Reds

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MuzzyField said:
AR, if you're "zooming" through WTBY you can't be driving east bound on I-84, unless you are using a helicopter.
 
 
I have been caught in the I84 traffic squeeze before, and have such a hatred of it that I now plan around it.
 
These days, I'm almost always going through Waterbury early on weekend days (before 6:30am) because I'm taking my daughter to Farmington (for ODP soccer) or when I need to head to Boston for work or to northern New England for any reason.  And I always plan to get through Waterbury either early or late enough so that I can avoid the traffic.  That's a headache that I don't need.
 

bosoxsue

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I scratch my head at the stories I've dealt with the postulate this as being a great thing because it will subsequently revive the downtown thanks to the crowds from the game heading there postgame. Maybe it's because my opinion is colored by going to minor league games with my children, but the only thing I've wanted to do after the game/fireworks/massive amounts of food consumption is get out of Dodge. I've had no desire to go clubbing, and the children with me would have been an obstacle if I did. I'd have to say that I was a fair representation of the demographics at the games I've attended, too.
 
And as for the armpit, have any of you been to Jewett City?