2020 Coaching Carousel: #AnyoneButMcDaniels

Zincman

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JMD's poor performance with the Broncos and his subsequent waffling on the Colts may be a large factor in his seeming fall from favor. Do he and Caserio leave for clown show in Cleveland? Looks like the last opportunity especially if the Patriots slide further.
 

Harry Hooper

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Bedard on the radio today tossed in at one point that he'd heard that BB actually favored Judge as his successor with the Pats.
 

RedOctober3829

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JMD's poor performance with the Broncos and his subsequent waffling on the Colts may be a large factor in his seeming fall from favor. Do he and Caserio leave for clown show in Cleveland? Looks like the last opportunity especially if the Patriots slide further.
One thing that didn't help #Patriots OC Josh McDaniels' this wk: He wasn't permitted to interview until Wed b/c of Patriots exit interviews, I'm told. #Panthers & #Giants jobs were filled today & he was scheduled to talk to both. Only #Browns left for him.
View: https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/1214688686903836674
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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One thing that didn't help #Patriots OC Josh McDaniels' this wk: He wasn't permitted to interview until Wed b/c of Patriots exit interviews, I'm told. #Panthers & #Giants jobs were filled today & he was scheduled to talk to both. Only #Browns left for him.
View: https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/1214688686903836674
I kind of think if a team is not willing to wait to talk to you then maybe they are not really all that interested. Was there a concern that Ruhle and Judge were going to get snapped up that quickly?

The part that's kind of weird though is that you would have thought that Judge would have had the same exit interview obligations as Josh McD.
 

InstaFace

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Belichick was also a ST coach before moving onto defense.
Yes, and he's on record as to how it was helpful for his development as a coach. But he was "LBs + ST" for 5 years, before becoming DC for 6 years - he really was a "Defensive coach" in the taxonomy of HC hires. To my knowledge only one current HC has really been a "ST coach" before getting the HC hire. And even John Harbaugh was DBs coach for one year in 2007 before getting hired as HC - though that followed 10 years of ST coaching in college and then 9 years of ST coaching for the Eagles.

Surely the 2nd-best STs coach in the NFL is probably likelier to be a great HC than the (say) 16th-best OC or DC.
 

Harry Hooper

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I kind of think if a team is not willing to wait to talk to you then maybe they are not really all that interested. Was there a concern that Ruhle and Judge were going to get snapped up that quickly?

The part that's kind of weird though is that you would have thought that Judge would have had the same exit interview obligations as Josh McD.
Bedard has suggested that both the Carolina and Giants GMs had an incentive to get someone hired before Josh interviewed, as neither would likely be kept on if Josh got the gig.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Bedard has suggested that both the Carolina and Giants GMs had an incentive to get someone hired before Josh interviewed, as neither would likely be kept on if Josh got the gig.
I'm surprised that a new coach would have that much influence on who gets to be the GM after that GM hires the coach.
 

mauf

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I'm surprised that a new coach would have that much influence on who gets to be the GM after that GM hires the coach.
The GM/coach hierarchy is a lot more blurry in the NFL than in other leagues, even for teams that don’t give the coach total control.

That said, if either the Panthers or Giants were willing to change GMs to land McDaniels, there’s no way those GMs would be allowed to thwart that by hiring someone else before McDaniels could be interviewed. He obviously wasn’t either team’s first choice.
 

jtn46

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Giants are churning coaches quickly so with a smaller name like Judge if he’s fired in 2 years oh well. They probably genuinely liked him the first time they interviewed him but went with the more established Shurmur maybe to fend off the kind of press they are getting now. Living in the media market I don't think it's a good job, ditto the Jets job, NY fans now want losing coaches fired in year 1. Still a good opportunity for Judge.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I kind of don’t blame the Giants for reportedly passing on matching the Panthers considerable offer. I mean, Rhule isn’t a known NFL quantity like Holmgren going to SEA or Parcells going to the Pats/Jets/Cowboys.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I kind of don’t blame the Giants for reportedly passing on matching the Panthers considerable offer. I mean, Rhule isn’t a known NFL quantity like Holmgren going to SEA or Parcells going to the Pats/Jets/Cowboys.
I kind of do. A slot receiver makes more than $8m per year. Isn't your head coach more important than a slot receiver?
 

OurF'ingCity

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The GM/coach hierarchy is a lot more blurry in the NFL than in other leagues, even for teams that don’t give the coach total control.

That said, if either the Panthers or Giants were willing to change GMs to land McDaniels, there’s no way those GMs would be allowed to thwart that by hiring someone else before McDaniels could be interviewed. He obviously wasn’t either team’s first choice.
It's also possible that McDaniels has made it generally known through his agent or otherwise that he'll only leave the Pats for a HC job if he also has a substantial amount of say in personnel/GM-type decisions and the Panthers and Giants ownership weren't comfortable with that and instead would have taken McDaniels only if he could be overseen by a GM with a lot of responsibility/say.

And, of course, as Zincman noted, the McD-Colts situation obviously is in the back of the mind of ownership/management for any team considering him as a candidate.

All that said, he may still end up as HC of the Browns simply because they have no better options once the music stops.
 

BigJimEd

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And Cleveland may have been McDaniels top choice anyway. Local guy and he was reportedly high on Mayfield coming out of college
 

Carmine Hose

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Bedard on the radio today tossed in at one point that he'd heard that BB actually favored Judge as his successor with the Pats.
This may make sense since one of the things the media cited as a reason Josh came back from the Indy job was that Bill was that he would open up the curtain on running the organization more. We've heard recently that he'd already been doing this with Judge.
 

BigJimEd

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But didn't he turn them down last year?
I don't believe McDaniels was considered last year. He even said he was never contacted by them.

Edit: Link from Cleveland.com

Despite the Canton Repository reporting last week that McDaniels was “very interested” in the Browns job and that all indications were that he was a “very serious candidate,” the Browns never requested permission to interview the longtime Bill Belichick assistant and former Broncos head coach.

Dorsey is very close to Colts GM Chris Ballard, who was left holding the bag last year when McDaniels accepted the Indianapolis job and then reneged
 
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tims4wins

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I don't believe McDaniels was considered last year. He even said he was never contacted by them.

Edit: Link from Cleveland.com
Right, there was no interest in either direction from what I have found.

“Cleveland has not put in a slip. (McDaniels) has not expressed any interest in the Cleveland job, so Cleveland is just kind of out there," Schefter said, via WEEI.com. "Who knows if anything will ever happen there, but there has been nothing from his end and nothing from the Browns' end at this time to make you think something is going to happen there.

"That doesn’t seem to be an option right now. Now, teams sometimes go through interviews and decide, ‘You know what, let’s go take a look at this guy,’ or they change their minds. That hasn’t happened yet.”
 

BigJimEd

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So we agree. McDaniels did not turn them down. Not that it is all that relevant with Dorsey gone anyway.
 

tims4wins

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So we agree. McDaniels did not turn them down. Not that it is all that relevant with Dorsey gone anyway.
Yes, after researching, I agree. I do think that if he wanted the job that he might have expressed some interest through back channels in order to earn an interview, but I can't prove that of course.
 

InstaFace

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Or that Dorsey was prepared to ignore him for the Colts thing, either because he's friends with Ballard or just general principles, and either way was the sort of clubby groupthink that has led them to stay in the basement.
 

BigJimEd

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Yes, after researching, I agree. I do think that if he wanted the job that he might have expressed some interest through back channels in order to earn an interview, but I can't prove that of course.
Very possible. I think the big difference is Dorsey is now gone. McDaniels is going to want a good amount of control and major input into who becomes GM
 

Carbo Loading

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McDaniels was considered the front runner to replace Rob Chudzinski after 2013 according to Mike Lombardi, who was the GM at the time. McDaniels interviewed and everybody loved him but Jimmy Haslem wanted to interview more people for whatever reason, which is when McD took himself out of the running, per Lombardi.
 

Harry Hooper

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Interesting to hear both Phil Simms and Chris Simms say that the Giants (after declining to match Rhule's offer from Carolina) told Martindale on Monday night that he was their guy. Somehow, someway that didn't happen. Judge got the gig.

LINK
 

jtn46

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Judge sounds impressive. I'm not sure Giants players will buy in but if he were doing this PC as Belichick's successor I'd be pretty hyped. Maybe in 2 years if the Giants fire him he'll be just that.
 

E5 Yaz

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Multiple reports indicate that Josh McDaniels' wife accompanied him on the interview in Cleveland today. That would say to me that if he likes what he hears then they may come to terms fairly quickly.
Perhaps, but wouldn't it be a common practice for wives or families to go to a city where they might be moving to go along on such trips? I mean, just because it's out there that McDaniels' if in on the trip doesn't mean the same wasn't true for any or all of the other candidates they spoke with.
 

Marbleheader

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Perhaps, but wouldn't it be a common practice for wives or families to go to a city where they might be moving to go along on such trips? I mean, just because it's out there that McDaniels' if in on the trip doesn't mean the same wasn't true for any or all of the other candidates they spoke with.
Nobody goes to Cleveland unless they have to.
 

BigJimEd

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Wife is from Cleveland area.

By tonight, Patriots could be without an offensive, defensive and special teams coordinator.
 

JCizzle

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If McDaniels gets hired today, it's very disappointing that there will be only three black head coaches. The NFL needs to do something.
 

NortheasternPJ

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They could put in a rule where you have to interview a minority coach even if you have no interest in them in order to check the box.
 

JCizzle

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Like what? The NFL doesn't make these hires. I agree it is distressing.
They could put in a rule where you have to interview a minority coach even if you have no interest in them in order to check the box.
Said rule isn't working. They need to do better. There's no common sense argument for three black coaches considering the demographic of the league. If owners won't play ball, they need to be forced into these decisions. The Washington Post ran an article on this today and i agree that it's pretty bullshit that Bieniemy won't have a HC job next year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/10/black-coaches-are-losing-patience-with-nfls-hiring-process-you-know-you-have-no-shot/
 

InstaFace

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Except that it's the whole pipeline. What fraction of OC/DC/ST coaches are minorities? Very low. What fraction of position coaches are minorities? Not much higher. You can't force an owner on a one-off transaction (the HC hire) when they might quite reasonably claim that the demographics of qualified candidates are themselves just as skewed. Particularly on the most important hire in the entire organization.

Any league initiative would need to be, effectively, affirmative action in the entire coaching pipeline, with special resources and support available to minorities interested in coaching, and special incentives open to the teams, and it would take a decade. That's not a reason not to start that - they should put some sort of scheme in place along those lines - but it's a reason not to overreact to one year, when it's really every year, and systemic.

edit: firing Goodell and replacing him with Condi Rice or Ray Anderson (or hell, even Troy Vincent, god help me) would also be a positive step, because it would mean more of those thoughts would occur to the person in the seat that can actually do something about them.
 

JCizzle

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Like what?
I thought Russillo had an interesting thought that if owners don't make meaningful progress on this, teams could be forced to make a minority hire at least one every four times they cycle through a head coach. At least something better than owners collectively throwing up their hands and doing nothing.