The Game Goat Thread: Wk.14 at LAR

SMU_Sox

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Wentz would be putting up numbers with this coaching staff and team. I actually hope we get him on the cheap next year.
YMMV but the Eagles are one of the teams I watch almost every week and I am not so sure on this. Wentz looks worse now than he ever did. If you talk to any Eagles fans they will probably tell you the same thing... in a certain slack channel last night Mark Schofield was saying the same thing. He is broken. I am saying that as a Wentz fan.

Obviously we don't have line of sight into anything behind the scenes, but playing Jennings over Winovich feels like coaching malpractice (on the surface, at. least). Jennings and Simon were comically bad on the edges. They're both fairly limited athletically, so if they can't set their edges, there's not much else they're going to bring to the table. I don't know if they're sending messages to Wino or what, but he's orders of magnitude better than Jennings and much more disruptive than Simon. Let's see more Uche, too. His ratio of splash plays is really encouraging; let him figure it out on early downs. Unlike Jennings, he's got the rare athleticism to have a really high ceiling.

OL got overwhelmed, which we haven't seen happen in a long time. Seemed like every single one of them had their share of misses, with Uncle Phil having some egregious ones.

45-0 to...whatever that was in the span of a couple of days is just wild.
Simon isn't that unathletic imo. He's not a super athlete but his RAS is in the 8's. Simon in 2018 and 2019 was really good at setting the edge. This year he's been bad at it. He is also 30 and his play is dropping off - that's not that unusual. They need better edges. They need a 260-270 pound guy who can hold up and not get washed.

Wino has been super inconsistent against the run from what I have seen. Right now they don't have a complete edge. You can get away with having one bad run defending edge but with 2 it makes it a lot harder obviously. Jennings was one of the best run-defending edges in last years draft. Wino is their most disruptive player and someone I will do a deep dive on soon because I want to see if it looks like his rotational status is justified or not. I have a hunch it is. I think he must be struggling against the run in practice... if he figures it out there then he should see more reps.

And another thing unrelated to this is Onwenu. He is, imo, not a tackle. He has shown you he can play guard at a high level. He really struggles as an OT against better pass rushers. Part of that is because he is learning OT footwork. Part of that is because he doesn't have the kind of movement skills to beat faster rushers and if he cheats they just hit the inside lane.
 

Silverdude2167

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Do either Brady or Hightower play tight end? Because that's what's killing me. It's clear that TE is an incredibly important role in the modern NFL, and after atrocious play in 2019, The GM drafted two kids (good!), but didn't sign any pros to start the season (bad!). Hollister or Eifert at the move TE would have completely changed this offense, or Ebron if The GM had been willing to splurge, giving them an actual receiving threat off of play action or RPO. Both Keene and Asiasi got hurt, and they still picked up nobody.

Fast forward to last night, and neither Keene or Asiasi had any meaningful impact, clearly lost as blockers and receivers. Just ugly.
The team basically had no cap space until the COVID opt-outs...honestly, I am fine with them not spending in FA this year if it was going to hurt cap space in future years.
 

lexrageorge

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I don't think Cam requires you to run a bad college offense. I think they wanted to run a bad college offense. They drank the kool aid that the run game was the key to the 2018 SB run and have been chasing it ever since.
The team that allowed Josh Gordon to come back, that signed Demarius Thomas and Antonio Brown, and used a first round pick on a receiver they loved wasn't chasing a college offense. They are running a college offense because their RB's are far better than their pass catchers, but that wasn't by design. The salary cap issues they had this offseason were real as well.
 

Cellar-Door

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The bigger issue is Cam requires you to run a bad college offense and is likely regressing the rest of the team yet doing just enough to win enough games to ensure you won't get to draft a QB next year either. We won't know if Harry/Myers are serviceable WR because Cam can't read a defense, they don't attempt to pass and instead seem content to go 7-9 this year. Cam will end up being the worst FA signing in the Bill B era, not for the results on the field but because of the trickle down effect for seasons to come.
It is baffling they continue to trot him out there.
The team that allowed Josh Gordon to come back, that signed Demarius Thomas and Antonio Brown, and used a first round pick on a receiver they loved wasn't chasing a college offense. They are running a college offense because their RB's are far better than their pass catchers, but that wasn't by design. The salary cap issues they had this offseason were real as well.
I don't know that they were chasing a college offense, but I will say that just because Cam doesn't execute it well doesn't mean that the idea behind the offense is bad. For all the "college" offense stuff, a ton of the league is finding that QB mobility, option concepts and the like are very effective in the NFL as well. Nothing about the offense we are running makes it bad for the rest of the players... if anything it probably helps our O-line look better than a dropback pocket passing offense would. A good chunk of the league runs similar schemes to what we do, it's just that they have better QBs and more explosive speed based playmakers than we do.

Wentz would be putting up numbers with this coaching staff and team. I actually hope we get him on the cheap next year.
I agree with SMU above, Wentz is broken, maybe someone can fix him, but last night's Cam looked exactly like how Wentz has looked all year. A team gets pressure and his footwork and arm angles go away, he scatters the ball all over the place and he makes terrible decisions. He's been worse than Cam this year, and that's with better talent at WR and TE.
 

Super Nomario

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The team that allowed Josh Gordon to come back, that signed Demarius Thomas and Antonio Brown, and used a first round pick on a receiver they loved wasn't chasing a college offense. They are running a college offense because their RB's are far better than their pass catchers, but that wasn't by design. The salary cap issues they had this offseason were real as well.
The offense has a trajectory since 2017, when they had Cooks and a high-flying offense and Brady won MVP but the D stunk. In the offseason, they traded away Cooks, used a first on a RB, used another first and a third on two OTs (Wynn and Trent Brown), and went budget at WRs (that was the offseason they had Jordan Matthews, Eric Decker, Kenny Britt, etc., and they all flamed out). That led to the Gordon acquisition, which was a budget gamble on Gordon's issues. In 2019, they used a first on Harry, who is a big physical WR who can block. They also signed more budget flyers (Thomas, Mo Harris, Dontrelle Inman), again, all of whom flopped. That led to Brown, and ultimately to Sanu, another big physical WR who can block. I think if you look at the trajectory of the investment, they've been shifting resources away from the pass game and towards the run game, and even for pass game investments like Harry and Sanu, physicality and blocking played a role in the eval.

I don't know that they were chasing a college offense, but I will say that just because Cam doesn't execute it well doesn't mean that the idea behind the offense is bad. For all the "college" offense stuff, a ton of the league is finding that QB mobility, option concepts and the like are very effective in the NFL as well. Nothing about the offense we are running makes it bad for the rest of the players... if anything it probably helps our O-line look better than a dropback pocket passing offense would. A good chunk of the league runs similar schemes to what we do, it's just that they have better QBs and more explosive speed based playmakers than we do.
The Patriots are the most run-happy team in the NFL. Yes, other teams have mobile QBs, but other teams don't play an old-school fullback 35% of the time (SF uses a FB more, but Juszczyk is a much different player than Johnson). "Bad college offense" probably isn't right (even college teams don't use fullbacks anymore); it's more of a throwback 1970's or 1980's offense. The TEs block, the FB blocks, they run three times and punt. It's a throwback offense, and a failed experiment.
 

BaseballJones

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The Patriots' offensive scheme can totally work in the NFL. You just need a QB that you can trust to throw it as well. He doesn't have to be a crazy great runner. But good enough to keep the ball once in a while and be a bit of a threat. In the RZ last night they had four opportunities.

First chance: 1st and 10 from the 20, then Harris for 1, and the Cam pick-six on a screen pass.
Second chance: 1st and goal from the 6, then Harris for 1, Sony for 2, Cam for 1, and Cam for -2 (he had a good pitch option but declined).
Third chance: 1st and 10 from the 19, then the bad lateral (meant to be a pass but no) that lost 5, Cam runs for 7, and Cam hits Meyers for 6. Then the FG.
Fourth chance: Stidham at the helm, facing 4th and 4 at the 16, and he threw a nice ball under pressure to Asiasi but it was broken up at the last second (after Asiasi was held, btw).

So Cam's three chances in the red zone were all very good ones, and they came away with net -4 points. Unfathomably bad. Honestly, if they played better in the RZ, they had a legit chance to win this game.
 

j44thor

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Except the offense that they are running is nothing like what other teams with mobile QBs run. They aren't running RPOs or designed roll-outs or bootlegs they are basically running wild cat with Cam at QB. He almost always gives away if he is running it near the goal line just by his foot work and it is almost always an up the gut or just off-tackle run. He doesn't have the speed to get to the edge like a Murray or Jackson and the threat of pass is zero in those situations.

If they were running a lot of RPOs & rollouts I would tend to agree that the offense was similar to what we are seeing but they might as well be running the wing-T at this point. Hell wishbone would likely be more effective and get their best players on the field more often.
 

Super Nomario

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The Patriots' offensive scheme can totally work in the NFL. You just need a QB that you can trust to throw it as well. He doesn't have to be a crazy great runner. But good enough to keep the ball once in a while and be a bit of a threat. In the RZ last night they had four opportunities.

First chance: 1st and 10 from the 20, then Harris for 1, and the Cam pick-six on a screen pass.
Second chance: 1st and goal from the 6, then Harris for 1, Sony for 2, Cam for 1, and Cam for -2 (he had a good pitch option but declined).
Third chance: 1st and 10 from the 19, then the bad lateral (meant to be a pass but no) that lost 5, Cam runs for 7, and Cam hits Meyers for 6. Then the FG.
Fourth chance: Stidham at the helm, facing 4th and 4 at the 16, and he threw a nice ball under pressure to Asiasi but it was broken up at the last second (after Asiasi was held, btw).

So Cam's three chances in the red zone were all very good ones, and they came away with net -4 points. Unfathomably bad. Honestly, if they played better in the RZ, they had a legit chance to win this game.
The fluky part was not the struggles in the red zone; the fluky part was that they were in the red zone at all. Two of those were short fields based on an INT and a punt return. The other two were the only drives where they moved the ball at all; they netted more than half (112) of their total yards (220) on those two. This wasn't a game like the Super Bowl vs the Rams where they moved the ball consistently and just had some situational breakdowns; this was a game where the offense was anemic regardless of situation and they were gifted a couple opportunities they squandered because they couldn't do anything well.
 

Cellar-Door

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The Patriots are the most run-happy team in the NFL. Yes, other teams have mobile QBs, but other teams don't play an old-school fullback 35% of the time (SF uses a FB more, but Juszczyk is a much different player than Johnson). "Bad college offense" probably isn't right (even college teams don't use fullbacks anymore); it's more of a throwback 1970's or 1980's offense. The TEs block, the FB blocks, they run three times and punt. It's a throwback offense, and a failed experiment.
I think some of that is just QB performance and also personnel. I do think at some point they need to add an explosive element no matter what system they play, but when you look at the other teams with heavy run rates (many also use a FB) there are a lot of good offenses there. I think it's fair to say that the current collection of players would be pretty bad in any system, and that this year is a wash, but they didn't draft Asiasi and Keene just to block, and they originally had a more versatile FB signing (he opted out). I think the offense has devolved into what it is because the TEs didn't pan out, we have FB issues again, our WRs aren't very good (and Edelman got hurt) and Cam only showed the briefest of flashes. I think Josh wanted to run something like what Baltimore ran last year, or TN, but it hasn't worked because the passing game is a disaster and the talent is a limiter that makes it hard to scheme guys open.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I still disagree with Wentz being broken. And I certainly don't buy that his talent around him is better (and even if it is better, it's not by much). Cam has one of the best offensive lines, and best running games in the NFL to work with. Wentz, umm, doesn't. The Eagles are like 20th in rushing yards per game, and Wentz leads the NFL in sacks at 50. Their leading receiver is Greg Ward, with 44 catches, and he's only started 7 of 12 games. Jalen Reagor may be good some day, but he's nothing more than a burner who can make a play on occasion (think John Ross from Cincy) at this moment. Fulgham has been serviceable, and then what after that at WR? The corpose of Alshon Jeffery?

They are stacked at tight end, but they aren't healthy. Ertz just missed 5 straight games with injury before returning this week, Goedert has missed 4 games. Their backs don't really catch anything (between Scott and Sanders, they average less than 4 receptions per game). Miles Sanders has a 17.9% drop rate, he's dropped 7 of the 39 balls thrown his way.

The Eagles are a bad football team on offense. Like really, really bad. And I don't know how folks can give up on him based on what he's had to work with this year. If Philly makes some moves and gives him some help and he still fails, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong, but I think he shines on a better team. He makes throws each week that Cam Newton could only dream about making at this point in his career.
 

lexrageorge

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The offense has a trajectory since 2017, when they had Cooks and a high-flying offense and Brady won MVP but the D stunk. In the offseason, they traded away Cooks, used a first on a RB, used another first and a third on two OTs (Wynn and Trent Brown), and went budget at WRs (that was the offseason they had Jordan Matthews, Eric Decker, Kenny Britt, etc., and they all flamed out). That led to the Gordon acquisition, which was a budget gamble on Gordon's issues. In 2019, they used a first on Harry, who is a big physical WR who can block. They also signed more budget flyers (Thomas, Mo Harris, Dontrelle Inman), again, all of whom flopped. That led to Brown, and ultimately to Sanu, another big physical WR who can block. I think if you look at the trajectory of the investment, they've been shifting resources away from the pass game and towards the run game, and even for pass game investments like Harry and Sanu, physicality and blocking played a role in the eval.


The Patriots are the most run-happy team in the NFL. Yes, other teams have mobile QBs, but other teams don't play an old-school fullback 35% of the time (SF uses a FB more, but Juszczyk is a much different player than Johnson). "Bad college offense" probably isn't right (even college teams don't use fullbacks anymore); it's more of a throwback 1970's or 1980's offense. The TEs block, the FB blocks, they run three times and punt. It's a throwback offense, and a failed experiment.
Prior to the 2018 draft, we were noting how the Pats had not invested much draft capital in the OL, preferring instead to use later round picks and UDFA's. And we were lamenting this when the team got burned in Denver when Brady was chased out the stadium. Then they invest in the OL and now it's a problem? The 2017 team had Nate Solder at the line's most important position, and he was known to be leaving. Trading for Brown was a GFIN type of move, and one that worked out. Wynn was the future product who suffered a freak injury during training camp.

Antonio Brown was by no means a "blocking" receiver; he was brought in because the team rightfully recognized that without much production from the TE position, they needed skill players at WR. And not a single person thought the Pats drafted two TE's in order to have them block. More likely, they are just not quite ready, given the abbreviated training camp. Or they could simply be busts.

I think we're reading too much into what is a roster situation caused by a combination of some recent draft busts, salary cap issues, and some GFIN type moves for which the piper is now being paid.
 

bakahump

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Right.

For as funny as this to say is....they need Tom Brady. Not 2009 TB or 2015 TB or 2018 TB. They Need 2001 TB.
Someone who can manage the game, hit some slants, hit (and have) a TE. The Also need a complete TE Not Gronk complete or even Kittle complete. They need a guy who can make the defense wonder "Are they running?....NOPE its a PASS...."

They then Need Harris to stay healthy and have the road graders they have at OL learn/get better at a Different Skill of Pass blocking.

All of those things seem imminently possible.
The last 10-15 years of 35+ point offense is over. We need to realize that 28-20 or 24-17 clock control wins is the new normal.
 

Melrose Diner

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I know the meme is kind of "Belichick the GM", etc. But at what point do we have to examine what the point is of Nick Caserio's existence? I would say short of the CB position (and maybe the OL collective), every single position group on this team is below league average. I know it's only one year of on-field results but the draft results aren't there going back a bit and if you're going to be the one making these decisions I'm going to need to see more.
 

BaseballJones

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The fluky part was not the struggles in the red zone; the fluky part was that they were in the red zone at all. Two of those were short fields based on an INT and a punt return. The other two were the only drives where they moved the ball at all; they netted more than half (112) of their total yards (220) on those two. This wasn't a game like the Super Bowl vs the Rams where they moved the ball consistently and just had some situational breakdowns; this was a game where the offense was anemic regardless of situation and they were gifted a couple opportunities they squandered because they couldn't do anything well.
I agree. Yet if they take advantage of their RZ opportunities, they could have won the game. Sometimes you only get a few chances, and winning and losing comes down to whether or not you maximize those chances. The Patriots in four RZ chances had a net of -4 points. Which is unfathomable.
 

Silverdude2167

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Second chance: 1st and goal from the 6, then Harris for 1, Sony for 2, Cam for 1, and Cam for -2 (he had a good pitch option but declined).
Not to defend Cam too much as he was poor last night...that 4th down play had no chance of success as it was defended perfectly with a man for Cam and for the pitch.

The fact that it was defended perfectly actually shows how limiting Cam's passing ability is to the offense. They were able to commit enough players to take away the numerical advantage you normally get from a read option.
Also, the play was so well defended I am wondering if they tipped it off. That play had no success from the start because it seems like the Rams 100% knew it was coming.
 

BaseballJones

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I think if Cam pitches it right away, Harris has a chance to beat the linebacker to the pylon. A chance anyway. Cam keeping it had NO chance whatsoever.
 

Super Nomario

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I think we're reading too much into what is a roster situation caused by a combination of some recent draft busts, salary cap issues, and some GFIN type moves for which the piper is now being paid.
All this stuff is a factor, too, but they could have diverted resources from the OL to get better at the skill positions, most obviously by not franchising Thuney and spending that money on WR / TE. Instead they decided to build a really good OL at the expense of the skill players.

I think if Cam pitches it right away, Harris has a chance to beat the linebacker to the pylon. A chance anyway. Cam keeping it had NO chance whatsoever.
It had no chance either way.

The fact that it was defended perfectly actually shows how limiting Cam's passing ability is to the offense. They were able to commit enough players to take away the numerical advantage you normally get from a read option.
You don't get a numerical advantage in the red zone because there's no deep safety - it's 8 on 8.

For as funny as this to say is....they need Tom Brady. Not 2009 TB or 2015 TB or 2018 TB. They Need 2001 TB.
Someone who can manage the game, hit some slants, hit (and have) a TE. The Also need a complete TE Not Gronk complete or even Kittle complete. They need a guy who can make the defense wonder "Are they running?....NOPE its a PASS...."
What does the 2001 offense look like if Troy Brown is hurt? Because that's basically what we have now. I think there's a lot of conflation of "passing game problems" with "quarterback problems." The passing game has a lot of issues, some of which are Cam and some of which aren't. It doesn't magically get better with a different QB.
 

Captaincoop

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Not to defend Cam too much as he was poor last night...that 4th down play had no chance of success as it was defended perfectly with a man for Cam and for the pitch.

The fact that it was defended perfectly actually shows how limiting Cam's passing ability is to the offense. They were able to commit enough players to take away the numerical advantage you normally get from a read option.
Also, the play was so well defended I am wondering if they tipped it off. That play had no success from the start because it seems like the Rams 100% knew it was coming.
I hate when they spread it out for a designed Cam run in those goal line or short yardage situations. By now everyone in the league knows they don't trust Cam to throw outside in that situation. So you may as well line it up and smash it.
 

Cellar-Door

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I still disagree with Wentz being broken. And I certainly don't buy that his talent around him is better (and even if it is better, it's not by much). Cam has one of the best offensive lines, and best running games in the NFL to work with. Wentz, umm, doesn't. The Eagles are like 20th in rushing yards per game, and Wentz leads the NFL in sacks at 50. Their leading receiver is Greg Ward, with 44 catches, and he's only started 7 of 12 games. Jalen Reagor may be good some day, but he's nothing more than a burner who can make a play on occasion (think John Ross from Cincy) at this moment. Fulgham has been serviceable, and then what after that at WR? The corpose of Alshon Jeffery?

They are stacked at tight end, but they aren't healthy. Ertz just missed 5 straight games with injury before returning this week, Goedert has missed 4 games. Their backs don't really catch anything (between Scott and Sanders, they average less than 4 receptions per game). Miles Sanders has a 17.9% drop rate, he's dropped 7 of the 39 balls thrown his way.

The Eagles are a bad football team on offense. Like really, really bad. And I don't know how folks can give up on him based on what he's had to work with this year. If Philly makes some moves and gives him some help and he still fails, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong, but I think he shines on a better team. He makes throws each week that Cam Newton could only dream about making at this point in his career.
I think Cam has a lot to do with our running game, that's generally been the case for running QBs and our offensive line is.... not great, though I agree Harris is better than Sanders. You list all their WRs... sure, they're more young potential than established... look at our WRs, we have guys who got cut from mediocre teams and UDFAs out there, Jakobi Meyers is our #1. Ertz and Goedert are excellent players, even Rodgers is a whole lot better than our TEs.
Wentz may be good again in a situation with a really good line and good skill players, my point is..... this year's Patriots is definitively not that. Wentz would be just as awful here as he is in Philly, maybe worse since our WRs and TEs get separation even less than his in PHI do. We just watched our line get obliterated and both our QBs under constant pressure, Wentz folds like a house of cards under even minimal pressure, he'd be a disaster. Certainly he isn't someone you willingly pay $25M for unless PHI is attaching draft picks to him (and pretty good ones).
 

Captaincoop

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I don't know the analytics, so maybe there's an argument against, but I can't imagine Cam is much of a net positive for our RBs in terms of their ability to run the ball. Sure, he's another run option the D has to account for. But his total lack of passing ability means that the box is stacked all the time and the other team is usually in a run-stopping alignment. The Pats have a good run-blocking interior line (probably really good), and a guy in Harris who looks like a legitimate bell cow, along with a great change of pace and receiving back in White. Any QB is going to benefit from that.
 

Bergs

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YMMV but the Eagles are one of the teams I watch almost every week and I am not so sure on this. Wentz looks worse now than he ever did. If you talk to any Eagles fans they will probably tell you the same thing... in a certain slack channel last night Mark Schofield was saying the same thing. He is broken. I am saying that as a Wentz fan.
I agree with SMU above, Wentz is broken, maybe someone can fix him, but last night's Cam looked exactly like how Wentz has looked all year. A team gets pressure and his footwork and arm angles go away, he scatters the ball all over the place and he makes terrible decisions. He's been worse than Cam this year, and that's with better talent at WR and TE.
I must've accidently caught a good series or two. I will bow to your more complete judgment.
 

Super Nomario

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I don't know the analytics, so maybe there's an argument against, but I can't imagine Cam is much of a net positive for our RBs in terms of their ability to run the ball. Sure, he's another run option the D has to account for. But his total lack of passing ability means that the box is stacked all the time and the other team is usually in a run-stopping alignment. The Pats have a good run-blocking interior line (probably really good), and a guy in Harris who looks like a legitimate bell cow, along with a great change of pace and receiving back in White. Any QB is going to benefit from that.
I think the box is gonna be stacked, not because of Cam but because they are running compressed formations with a true FB, no TE threat, and no deep threat. Maybe they do more spread stuff with another QB, but it's not gonna make Ryan Izzo magically productive, and they don't have a fourth WR option. This is built to be a run-first team regardless of QB; Cam at least gives the run a chance to work. I'm not sure prime Brady or Dan Marino or anyone could make the pass game work with this group.

I think Cam has a lot to do with our running game, that's generally been the case for running QBs and our offensive line is.... not great, though I agree Harris is better than Sanders. You list all their WRs... sure, they're more young potential than established... look at our WRs, we have guys who got cut from mediocre teams and UDFAs out there, Jakobi Meyers is our #1. Ertz and Goedert are excellent players, even Rodgers is a whole lot better than our TEs.
Wentz may be good again in a situation with a really good line and good skill players, my point is..... this year's Patriots is definitively not that. Wentz would be just as awful here as he is in Philly, maybe worse since our WRs and TEs get separation even less than his in PHI do. We just watched our line get obliterated and both our QBs under constant pressure, Wentz folds like a house of cards under even minimal pressure, he'd be a disaster. Certainly he isn't someone you willingly pay $25M for unless PHI is attaching draft picks to him (and pretty good ones).
Ertz and Goedert have both been hurt for stretches, and Philly's OL is a much bigger mess than ours. Pats OL was good before last night; both Philly tackles are on IR as is their best G. Greg Ward is leading them in WR snaps. It's a horrible supporting cast, and Wentz looks like a regressing mess.
 

BaseballJones

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It had no chance either way.
Well, it would have left Harris with a one-on-one against a LB. You give Harris zero chance to gain two yards in that situation? I'd say not a great chance, but not no chance.

Cam kept it and ran into a pile of bodies. THAT had no chance.
 

E5 Yaz

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Well, it would have left Harris with a one-on-one against a LB. You give Harris zero chance to gain two yards in that situation? I'd say not a great chance, but not no chance.

Cam kept it and ran into a pile of bodies. THAT had no chance.
It was more like 4-5 yards -- 2 from the LOS, but that's not where Harris was
 

BaseballJones

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Still I’d rather take a chance with Harris having a one on one with a LB in some space than Cam running into a thick pile of bodies. Wouldn’t you?
 

ShaneTrot

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I know we have been spoiled but it says a lot about this team that I am legitimately shocked when Cam completes a pass of more than 10 air yards. He has 5 TD passes in 12 games. I know it's not all his fault but this offense is no fun once the running game gets stuffed and when they are behind they are doomed.
 

54thMA

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Cam
OC
Offensive line

Stink
Stank
Stunk

Love Cam as a personality and a leader, hate him as the Patriots QB. On the pregame, Terry Bradshaw pointed out what many of you have been saying all year, Cam has a weird throwing motion where he hurls his whole body forward, Glazer then mentioned Cam had shoulder surgery and has been fighting an abdominal issue.

They signed him on the cheap and hoped they'd catch lightning in a bottle.

Nope.
 

E5 Yaz

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Still I’d rather take a chance with Harris having a one on one with a LB in some space than Cam running into a thick pile of bodies. Wouldn’t you?
Absolutely. I think I posted at the time, that I didn't understand why Cam insists or the play is called for a straight-ahead run ... into an area where Donald & Co were controlling the line ... when even Cam rolling to the edge would at least give him time to build up a little speed
 

steveluck7

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I know we have been spoiled but it says a lot about this team that I am legitimately shocked when Cam completes a pass of more than 10 air yards. He has 5 TD passes in 12 games. I know it's not all his fault but this offense is no fun once the running game gets stuffed and when they are behind they are doomed.
Funny, I feel more confident about him completing those passes than i am about him completing something in the 4-9 yd range. Somehow, our WRs seem to be open when he actually makes one of those throws.
Of course, my confidence in his ability to get off a throw that will travel that far... that's a different story
 

Super Nomario

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Still I’d rather take a chance with Harris having a one on one with a LB in some space than Cam running into a thick pile of bodies. Wouldn’t you?
If he pitches it right away, like you suggest, Harris has gotta beat two LBs because the unblocked end man hadn't committed to Cam yet. It's an option, Cam's gotta press the attack, make that guy commit, and then he can pitch it. But by the time he did that, the LB covering the pitch man was closing pretty fast, Harris was back at the 9, and nothing good was going to come of anything.

I don't know how they drew this one up, but there was also an unblocked defender on the weak side, so I think they were planning to be able to block all the Rams except for the designed unblocked guy that Cam has to make the decision on, but something got messed up and they wound up with two unblocked guys on the playside. It was DOA.
 

Pandemonium67

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Isn't there an option to pass if Cam's path is stuffed and the pitch guy is covered? The Pats don't seem to do that.

Pitching to Harris would've been better than keeping it there, but the Rams had the play sussed out --which speaks to the Pats goal line O being a one-trick pony.
 

EL Jeffe

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Aug 30, 2006
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Wino has been super inconsistent against the run from what I have seen. Right now they don't have a complete edge. You can get away with having one bad run defending edge but with 2 it makes it a lot harder obviously. Jennings was one of the best run-defending edges in last years draft. Wino is their most disruptive player and someone I will do a deep dive on soon because I want to see if it looks like his rotational status is justified or not. I have a hunch it is. I think he must be struggling against the run in practice... if he figures it out there then he should see more reps.

And another thing unrelated to this is Onwenu. He is, imo, not a tackle. He has shown you he can play guard at a high level. He really struggles as an OT against better pass rushers. Part of that is because he is learning OT footwork. Part of that is because he doesn't have the kind of movement skills to beat faster rushers and if he cheats they just hit the inside lane.
I'd agree that Wino has been inconsistent in the run game, but he seemed to be okay last evening (in fairness, I haven't done a rewatch). That said, I still can't fathom playing Jennings over him. Wino is your most disruptive pass rusher and iffy vs. the run. Seeing how teams throw more than run, play the better player. As forJennings...well Jennings offers very little at this point. He's a massive liability in coverage, doesn't have the speed/quickness to beat OTs, and he's been iffy at best vs. the run, too. Are you seeing anything out of him that warrants more playing time than Wino, Uche or Bowser? I'm not. He was a reasonable pick for where he was taken, but there were always ceiling concerns because of his athleticism. Now I'm having serious floor concerns too, because the power isn't really showing up. Still, he's a rookie with an abnormal offseason, so we'll revisit next year.

I'd also prefer Onwenu at OG, but I understand the push to get the best 5 OL out there. He's held up okay at OT, but I will never understand the fascination with running screens when Eluemenor and Onwenu are your OTs. Onwenu has made some nice blocks in space, but it's not really his game. Eluemenor...yeah, definitely not his game. They should be running more shotgun with 2nd level throws, which is Cam's game. When he's been able to get in rhythm (Seattle, Houston, sporadic drives), it's looked like a functional passing offense. If Cam's your QB, play to his strengths. Get him in a rhythm, sprinkle in some draws to keep the defense honest, but whatever it is they're trying to run right now, it's just a mishmash of suck.
 

Captaincoop

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Isn't there an option to pass if Cam's path is stuffed and the pitch guy is covered? The Pats don't seem to do that.

Pitching to Harris would've been better than keeping it there, but the Rams had the play sussed out --which speaks to the Pats goal line O being a one-trick pony.
Eluemonor blew his blocking assignment in epic fashion. You can see it on the coaches film - he blocks in on the D Tackle instead of out on the LB, and leaves Newton completely screwed (although if he had recognized it a tick faster he would have pitched right away and maybe Harris had some bit of a chance to go outside and score).