Tatum got the bag(5 years, $195 million)

benhogan

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He looked tonight like he could really use the time off.
I know it's a major payday for the NBA/Networks and a huge deal to the players...BUT I absolutely hate the All-Star game(s) in every sport.

Completely built for fanboys and the pink hat crowd.

Both of the Jays look fried/exhausted.
 
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peritas

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I know it's a major payday for the NBA/Networks and a huge deal to the players...BUT I absolutely hate the All-Star game(s) in every sport.

Completely built for fanboys and the pink hat crowd.

Both of the Jays look fried/exhausted.
I completely agree re Jays. Gassed.
 

benhogan

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I completely agree re Jays. Gassed.
Jayson Tatum is shooting 38.6% from the field & 31.8% from the 3 in February. Those are both career lows for Tatum over a FULL month of play (not sure, but it may be his toughest stretch of shooting over 15 consecutive games). His defense has also been terrible. It appears, to me at least, he is suffering from the after-effects of COVID. The excessive games/minutes are taking a toll on his play.

The same goes for Jaylen Brown, the schedule is beating these dudes up. In February, JB is shooting 44.3% from the field & 30.9% from 3 both well below his season/career averages.

So thrilled we have the socially distanced All-Star game to celebrate their play this season :rolleyes:

Brad is going to have to load manage these guys, for the benefit of them and the playoffs.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Tatum's position on that graphic is something that we might guess right but I can also see people either over or underestimating his defense this year for a variety of reasons. DeRozan, on the other hand, is on his own little island which is probably the least surprising thing I've seen in ages.
 
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Jimbodandy

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Tatum's position on that graphic is something that we might guess right but I can also see people either over or estimating his defense this year for a variety of reasons. DeRozan, on the other hand, is on his own little island which is probably the least surprising thing I've seen in ages.
DD was the other one that jumped right off the page. He finds a way to suck while covering the easiest covers. As you note, unsurprising.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Both Morris and Kyrie make perfect sense to me. Morris was always overrated. Kyrie wants the tough matchups and gets roasted. Feels right.
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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My eyes ain't what they used to be--who is that just above Tatum and slightly to the right (straddling the 90% line)? It looks like Wiggins in a Warriors jersey but that can't be right.
 

kfoss99

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A question I've been thinking about. Does Tatum match or exceed Pierce's Celtics career?

Meaning, at least one Championship Banner and his number in the rafters.

Tatum's having a bad stretch, but his 22 yo year surpasses Pierce's for stats and is on par for their 4th year in the league.

He's been petulant and mopey, this year, but Pierce was immature, too.

Tatum has the physical edge to Pierce, but can he mature in the same way? Tatum has the potential to be the 2nd pest Small Forward, ever, for the C's. It'd be great to see it happen.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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A question I've been thinking about. Does Tatum match or exceed Pierce's Celtics career?

Meaning, at least one Championship Banner and his number in the rafters.

Tatum's having a bad stretch, but his 22 yo year surpasses Pierce's for stats and is on par for their 4th year in the league.

He's been petulant and mopey, this year, but Pierce was immature, too.

Tatum has the physical edge to Pierce, but can he mature in the same way? Tatum has the potential to be the 2nd pest Small Forward, ever, for the C's. It'd be great to see it happen.
Depends on whether JT stays with BOS.

PP was, what, 30 when he won his championship? And he needed both KG and Ray Allen to do so?

I presume at some point BOS realizes that the window is closing. That's not this year - or even the next - but JT is going to be in his prime pretty soon.
 

NomarsFool

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Tatum contract question, he needs to make All NBA this season to increase the value of his deal, correct? And, is it a one time only chance? So, if he makes All NBA next season, would the remainder of his deal at that point be increased?
 

Dduncan6er

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I don't think there is any way that Tatum is making all NBA this year.
I think he has a chance at 3rd team. Lebron, Giannis, Kawhi, and Durant are definitely ahead of him but he's right there in the next tier of forwards with Zion, Sabonis, and Randle. If he plays well down the stretch I'd say he has a decent shot. I'm also not sure if voters usually hold injuries against guys for All-NBA voting. If they do Durant might not even make it.
 

DGreenwood

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Tatum contract question, he needs to make All NBA this season to increase the value of his deal, correct? And, is it a one time only chance? So, if he makes All NBA next season, would the remainder of his deal at that point be increased?
It has to be this year. If he's not All NBA this year the new contact kicks in next year as a 5 year (4+1) rookie max contract (25%). If he makes All NBA this year he'll have made it in two of the three previous years before his rookie max contract which would make him eligible for the Rose Rule and the higher rate (30%) for the same 4+1 years. It's all about his accomplishments in the years before the new contract starts.
 
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lovegtm

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It has to be this year. If he's not All NBA this year the new contact kicks in next year as a 5 year (4+1) rookie max contract (25%). If he makes All NBA this year he'll have made it in two of the three previous years before his rookie max contract which would make him eligible for the Rose Rule and the higher rate (30%) for the same 4+1 years. It's all about his accomplishments in the years before the new contract starts.
That would be a pretty big deal from a tax perspective going forward.
 

NomarsFool

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So, it seems like he would have had a very good incentive to try and make all NBA this season.
 

NomarsFool

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Yeah, and there have been rumors that his focus has been more on that than team needs.
His 3PA per game are identical to last season (7.1).
His 2PA per game have increased to 13.2 from 11.5. Intrestingly his 2P% is identical (48%).
Assists are up almost 50% (4.3 v. 3.0)
Blocks are down (0.9 vs. 0.5).
 

bakahump

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Maybe putting more effort/energy into generating impressive offensive numbers that get you on ALL-NBA teams then pacing himself on both ends and continuing his very good team D from years past.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think a lot of the Tatum and Brown skepticism goes away with the Fournier deal. The offensive load has just been lightened considerably.
 

nighthob

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Maybe putting more effort/energy into generating impressive offensive numbers that get you on ALL-NBA teams then pacing himself on both ends and continuing his very good team D from years past.
The 2021 Celtics lost Hayward and (largely) Walker. Both Tatum and Brown had to shoulder a bigger offensive load, and Tatum while dealing with post-covid fallout (which sucks, I'm speaking from experience here, I'm still struggling with respiratory issues and fatigue two months later). That energy expenditure on the offensive end has probably led to guys conserving energy on the other end.

The bright side of the Fournier trade is that with a 3rd/4th option that gets them consistent offense the JayCrew should have more defensive energy. And being able to limit Marcus' minutes is going to let him expend more energy as well.
 

Spelunker

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Maybe putting more effort/energy into generating impressive offensive numbers that get you on ALL-NBA teams then pacing himself on both ends and continuing his very good team D from years past.
Yeah, anything that helps him get back to the help D monster that he was before recently would be a massive blessing.
 

Euclis20

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A question I've been thinking about. Does Tatum match or exceed Pierce's Celtics career?

Meaning, at least one Championship Banner and his number in the rafters.

Tatum's having a bad stretch, but his 22 yo year surpasses Pierce's for stats and is on par for their 4th year in the league.

He's been petulant and mopey, this year, but Pierce was immature, too.

Tatum has the physical edge to Pierce, but can he mature in the same way? Tatum has the potential to be the 2nd pest Small Forward, ever, for the C's. It'd be great to see it happen.
Tatum is unusually bad at getting to the free throw line (for a player of his size and scoring profile) while Pierce was excellent at it. Pierce's FTR during his prime (let's call it 2001-2011) was .472, compared with Tatum who is at just .228 this year. It's impossible to overstate how big of a hole FT shooting is in Tatum's game right now and if nothing else it will keep him from ever being as good as Pierce. The latter is the only player in NBA history in the top ten in both career FTM and career 3PM, which is remarkable (although he'll be joined shortly by Harden and Lebron).
 

radsoxfan

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Thanks for posting.

Clearly the metrics think his defense has been far below his offense this year.

Not surprising, and also what I would expect to be the first to decline based on conditioning/COVID factors.

I think most would agree Tatum has more defensive potential than those numbers suggest, hopefully we see improvement the rest of the year.
 
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RorschachsMask

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Thanks for posting.

Clearly the metrics think his defense has been far below his offense this year.

Not surprising, and also what I would expect to be the first to decline based on conditioning/COVID factors.

I think most would agree Tatum has more defensive potential than those numbers suggest, hopefully we improvement the rest of the year.
His defense has absolutely taken a dip this year, he has bursts of elite defense in the 4th quarter of a lot of games, but it hasn’t been anywhere consistent enough.

Last night was the best game he’s played this season IMO, his defense was just as good as his offense. I’m hoping the Fournier acquisition reinvigorates the Jays, and the rest of the team. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they played their best game in months the day after Danny went out and got them a damn good scorer/shooter.
 

Cellar-Door

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One thing I wonder about with Tatum's D. Last year was a breakout for him, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it coincided with playing more as a nominal 4
With the Fournier/Theis swap he'll be going back to that role more. Will be interesting to track that.
 

lovegtm

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One thing I wonder about with Tatum's D. Last year was a breakout for him, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it coincided with playing more as a nominal 4
With the Fournier/Theis swap he'll be going back to that role more. Will be interesting to track that.
Yeah, putting speed and length at the 4 is a big improvement over having a big or Grant/Semi there.

This is assuming, of course, that Fournier ever plays. This covid luck is driving me nuts.
 

reggiecleveland

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My simple hope may be coming true, that the Cs struggles were more to do with Tatum being sick than anything. He has looked like he did early in the year the last two games.
 

tmracht

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My simple hope may be coming true, that the Cs struggles were more to do with Tatum being sick than anything. He has looked like he did early in the year the last two games.
I agree the way he has been jumping passing lanes with explosion is very reminiscent of his Pre-Covid impact, while still maintaining a high level offensive impact. If he's back to that quality of player this is a much different team down the stretch.
 

amarshal2

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Athletically he looks much better the last two games. Reminds me of what’s been missing.

He’s still playing too selfishly on offense. The ball just stops when he has it as his teammates know what to expect. There was a play late in the game when he had the ball just inside the top of the arc. He had his back to the basket and PP was standing off to the side for a three. Tatum easily could’ve pushed the ball towards PPs defender, drawn him, and hit PP for an open 3 he hits at 40%. Instead he turned snd shot a long two Tatum hits at like 38%. This is even a generous play to dissect because the shot clock was low snd he didn’t have many alternatives. But it was just so frustrating to see this going on and on and on.

unrelated
View: https://twitter.com/maxisnicee/status/1375882821986779142?s=21
 
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lovegtm

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Athletically he looks much better the last two games. Reminds me of what’s been missing.

He’s still playing too selfishly on offense. The ball just stops when he has it as his teammates know what to expect. There was a play late in the game when he had the ball just inside the top of the arc. He had his back to the basket and PP was standing off to the side for a three. Tatum easily could’ve pushed the ball towards PPs defender, drawn him, and hit PP for an open 3 he hits at 40%. Instead he turned snd shot a long two Tatum hits at like 38%. This is even a generous play to dissect because the shot clock was low snd he didn’t have many alternatives. But it was just so frustrating to see this going on and on and on.

unrelated
View: https://twitter.com/maxisnicee/status/1375882821986779142?s=21
Haha, I was waiting for the guy in that video to do the “throw hands up for a foul call that isn’t coming”
 

lexrageorge

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View: https://twitter.com/bostonsportsinf/status/1378878155088347136

Jayson Tatum (23 years / 32 days) is the 18th youngest player in NBA history to score 5,000 points
It's worth nothing that 11 of those 18 became their team's leading scorer in their 1st or 2nd seasons, as they were often drafted into really bad teams (or, in Abdur-Rahim's case, an expansion team). Tatum was drafted into a team that had Kyrie, Horford, and Hayward (ooops), and so did not have a chance to become the alpha scorer until his 3rd season:

1st year: LeBron, Durant, Carmelo, Shaq, Kyrie, Abdur-Rahim

2nd year: KAT, Booker, Rose, Wiggins, Davis

3rd year: Howard, Bosh, Marbury(*), Tatum

4th: McGrady, Giannis

7th: Kobe

*: Marbury became the lead scorer for the Nets after he was traded from the Wolves mid-season.

Kobe's teammate during his early Lakers year had a lot to do with him taking 7 years to become the team's leading scorer. Some of the above players were a year younger than Tatum when they were drafted as well.
 

RorschachsMask

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This will make some heads explode, but he is a very good playmaker for a forward, especially considering his age. He’s 12th in the league in LEBRON, also 2nd in the league in LARAPM. Dude is starting to really get into a rhythm again, on both sides of the court.

In fact, according to BBall Index’s player tracking statistics, Jayson Tatum has the 3rd-best scoring gravity in the NBA and the 9th-best playmaker rating among starting forwards.
https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/04/04/boston-celtics-tatum-banner-18/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
 
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Euclis20

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In 13 games since the ASB Tatum is averaging 25.8 points, 6.7 rebounds and 3.8 assists while shooting .490/.402/.881. This is a really nice rebound from his post covid stretch, between his return and the ASB (21 games) he averaged 24.0/7.0/4.8 while shooting .419/.329/.850.

It's odd to note that if you split the season into 3 parts (pre covid, post covid, post ASB) he was clearly a more efficient scorer pre-covid and post ASB, but his free throws per game peaked post covid (3.6 pre covid, 5.7 post covid, 3.2 post ASB). I don't know if this is just a small sample size or something more important to note.
 

TripleOT

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Tatum has been getting some criticism for not passing the ball, but if we look at some of the better wings in the league, his progression in the assist game is in front of theirs. KD and Butler took five seasons before they averaged the 4.3 assists like Tatum is doing in his fourth year. It took Kawhi 9 years and Paul George 11.

They guys on local talk radio are mostly clowns who know little about NBA basketball, but their criticism is over the top. Tatum’s fourth year numbers are slightly better than Kobe’s fourth year numbers. It took Kawhi 6 years to put up similar numbers, and PG 9 years.

LeBron, who is one of the three best passing SFs of all time, haw better fourth year numbers. KD is about the same (one more bucket per game, 1.5 less assists, lower eFG).

Tatum’s production is historically good, in the company of HOFers like Larry Bird and Paul Pierce, and he’s playoff tested. I get it though. I also get frustrated when JT goes into his bag at the wrong time and doesn’t score, but a little perspective is needed.

Hopefully, with TL and Fournier, the offense will be more free flowing, and JT can score (and pass) more often within the flow.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Tatum has been getting some criticism for not passing the ball, but if we look at some of the better wings in the league, his progression in the assist game is in front of theirs. KD and Butler took five seasons before they averaged the 4.3 assists like Tatum is doing in his fourth year. It took Kawhi 9 years and Paul George 11.

They guys on local talk radio are mostly clowns who know little about NBA basketball, but their criticism is over the top. Tatum’s fourth year numbers are slightly better than Kobe’s fourth year numbers. It took Kawhi 6 years to put up similar numbers, and PG 9 years.

LeBron, who is one of the three best passing SFs of all time, haw better fourth year numbers. KD is about the same (one more bucket per game, 1.5 less assists, lower eFG).

Tatum’s production is historically good, in the company of HOFers like Larry Bird and Paul Pierce, and he’s playoff tested. I get it though. I also get frustrated when JT goes into his bag at the wrong time and doesn’t score, but a little perspective is needed.

Hopefully, with TL and Fournier, the offense will be more free flowing, and JT can score (and pass) more often within the flow.

Year 4 Assist %
Tatum 19.1%
Durant 13.2%
Butler 14.4
Kawhi 13.0%
George 17.9% (The year before it was 19.6%) Better than Tatum.
Jaylen 9.7% (Hes at 17.9% in his year 5 season which is comparable to where the rest of them were in their year 5 season).


I'm not sure that's a good measurement though because a lot of it depends on their role with the team. The C's don't have a true PG so every player is going to have more assists per game or a higher assist %.
 

lovegtm

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Year 4 Assist %
Tatum 19.1%
Durant 13.2%
Butler 14.4
Kawhi 13.0%
George 17.9% (The year before it was 19.6%) Better than Tatum.
Jaylen 9.7% (Hes at 17.9% in his year 5 season which is comparable to where the rest of them were in their year 5 season).


I'm not sure that's a good measurement though because a lot of it depends on their role with the team. The C's don't have a true PG so every player is going to have more assists per game or a higher assist %.
Probably the best we can say is that Tatum isn't the ball-stopping disaster that he's criticized as. Most of the criticism should be on Danny for having failed to fill out the roster with shooting wings. Tatum and Brown already look a lot better playing with Fournier instead of Semi.

Tatum likely will go right back to looking like a stud when the roster is fixed. (If the never-ending covid hell ever stops)
 

Cesar Crespo

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Probably the best we can say is that Tatum isn't the ball-stopping disaster that he's criticized as. Most of the criticism should be on Danny for having failed to fill out the roster with shooting wings. Tatum and Brown already look a lot better playing with Fournier instead of Semi.

Tatum likely will go right back to looking like a stud when the roster is fixed. (If the never-ending covid hell ever stops)
I get the criticism but he is 100% not the problem with the Celtics and neither is Jaylen Brown. Tatum might be the reason the Celtics are ugly to watch at time though. That's another matter.

While player development is weird, the most common path is the coming out party in year 3, the leap in year 4 and the refinement in year 5. Brown didn't have a coming out party, Tatum had his leap a year early and may take 2 years to refine (makes sense since covid and all the weird circumstances), TL is in his coming out party.

Then there are guys like Jarrett Allen who have been pretty much the same player since they entered the league and have the feel of a 10 year old vet... but he's younger than TL. That's why player development is weird because I'm pretty sure we'd all take the older Time Lord over Jarrett Allen even though up until the last few weeks, Allen has clearly been the superior player.

Oh player development.

Long story short, Tatum just turned 23 years old. Younger than TL. He's not even close to a finished product and has made some serious leaps in this ugly year. They are just masked because as you pointed out, he was playing with bums.
 

DGreenwood

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I saw this in another thread but figured it should go in here too. We’ve all talked about Tatum’s body language but now the media is starting to call him out for it publicly. But it is Perk, and that’s what he does...

View: https://twitter.com/KendrickPerkins/status/1379614624966963202?s=20

"Jayson Tatum, you got paid the big bucks! You have the body language and energy level of an underpaid player and it’s hurtin the team. Time to step up and live up to your role, straight up. Carry on..."
 
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CoffeeNerdness

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But it is Perk, and that’s what he does...
Sure but that's not what Mike Gorman does and his criticisms of Tatum came way before Perk's tweet. Everybody that watches the C's for any amount of time sees exactly what Gorman and Perk are talking about. Tatum has a shit attitude and plays like a guy who has one concern and that's stacking numbers. Speaking purely as a fan, I kinda can't stand watching him play hoops(this year). He has dazzling highs where the skies the limit and distressing lows where it seems like he'd rather be anywhere but on the basketball court. Unfortunately, I doubt getting called out in the media is going to do much to change the course he's on. Further, I doubt Gorman says anything unless it was a real problem internally.