NBA Trade Deadline - Buyout Season Thread

BigSoxFan

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I mean, they overpaid to flip Paul for Westbrook, which stuck them in a dead end once that didn't work. Then they got an OK haul for Harden (if Brooklyn's core ages out), but messed up the Lavert for Oladipo flip.

Harden was forcing his way out, but he had years left on his deal and his market was robust. If they hadn't messed up the Paul trade, they would have been in a great situation ala OKC where they could tank themselves while accumulating ALL THE PICKS from other teams. Now they're stuck hoping for lottery luck to get in the top 4 this year.
Yup. It’s pretty remarkable how poorly the Texans and Rockets were run. Houston could have blown it up more effectively but Westbrook was the true issue. That’s the challenge of star appeasement. It forces you into moves you otherwise wouldn’t make.
 

Cellar-Door

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What Houston did was get blown up by having a disgruntled superstar. Their first "mistake" was having an asset that could dictate its own market. Not excusing them for execution but the minute Harden decided that it was Brooklyn or bust, they were already screwed.
Sure, on the other hand, let's say they just take the Nets' package. Beyond LeVert and Allen being good young players to have. If they had them on the block instead of an expiring Oladipo, what can they get for them.... probably, a 1st each, maybe a promising young guy each too?

I think the Celtics for example would have made an offer for LeVert similar to the rumored one for Gordon. Nesmith and a 1st say? Allen probably gets you a 1st+ as well.

So the turned likely three 1st round equivalents' plus, into a late round 1st SWAP.

Criminal mismanagement
 

lovegtm

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I doubt Allen would get that much, but maybe. He's an RFA.
There seemed to be some appetite for RFAs at the deadline, but their teams didn't want to trade them at the end of the day.

Houston did fine in the Harden trade imo; they blew everything else around it.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Still can't belive how epically dumb it was for HOU to trade Levert for Oladipo. They most assuredly could have gotten at least a first for Levert at the deadline. Or coul dhave held onto him and traded him in the offseason. Instead they got Avery Bradley and Kelly Olynyk.
Or they could have gotten Simmons. Can you imagine what the market for Simmons would have been if he were on the block this deadline?
 

Cellar-Door

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Or they could have gotten Simmons. Can you imagine what the market for Simmons would have been if he were on the block this deadline?
It's not clear Simmons was on the table, some sources say he wasn't. I won't knock a team for hypothetical trades.... I will knock them for trades where they had a guy and re-routed him to a 3rd team for garbage.
 

mcpickl

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Sure, on the other hand, let's say they just take the Nets' package. Beyond LeVert and Allen being good young players to have. If they had them on the block instead of an expiring Oladipo, what can they get for them.... probably, a 1st each, maybe a promising young guy each too?

I think the Celtics for example would have made an offer for LeVert similar to the rumored one for Gordon. Nesmith and a 1st say? Allen probably gets you a 1st+ as well.

So the turned likely three 1st round equivalents' plus, into a late round 1st SWAP.

Criminal mismanagement
An unbelievably terrible job.

And for a rookie GM no less. I'm betting his number has been moved up to #1 in every other teams speed dials.
 

Kliq

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Zach Lowe wrote last night about how getting Aaron Gordon was a huge move for the Nuggets; basically they needed a big wing that could play credible defense against LeBron/Kawhi and they went out and got one. Hearing that, I'm surprised Portland didn't make a more aggressive move to go after them. They gave up on Gary Trent Jr. to get Norm Powell, who will be solid offensively but with CJ back I would have tried to get Gordon instead. They would have given up a little more but I would have liked Portland's team a lot more if they had Gordon/Covington/Nurkic to help cover for Dame and CJ.
 

Cellar-Door

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Zach Lowe wrote last night about how getting Aaron Gordon was a huge move for the Nuggets; basically they needed a big wing that could play credible defense against LeBron/Kawhi and they went out and got one. Hearing that, I'm surprised Portland didn't make a more aggressive move to go after them. They gave up on Gary Trent Jr. to get Norm Powell, who will be solid offensively but with CJ back I would have tried to get Gordon instead. They would have given up a little more but I would have liked Portland's team a lot more if they had Gordon/Covington/Nurkic to help cover for Dame and CJ.
Yeah, POR made a nice move for Powell, but that's like tripling down on the "we'll just try and outscore them" strategy.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I have the Celtics just under 700K below the luxury tax.

The pro-rated vet minimum as of Saturday would be 566,087 according to Bobby Marks.

Just barely enough room to slip under if they waive Kornet and sign one buyout guy.

I'd guess Olynyk, as others have mentioned, would be their best chance of getting a guy here.
Sounds your calculations are very close to this spreadsheet I found on twitter, which has the Cs approximately $650K under the cap:

39789

His calculations also take into account the following bonuses:
1. $1.3M Jaylen Brown All-Star
2. $0.3M Jaylen Brown Conference Finals
3. $0.4M Jaylen Brown 65 GP pro-rated
4. $0.5M Marcus Smart BF%
5. $0.15M Evan Fournier 60 GP pro-rated + 75% GP Playoffs
6. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Conference Semi-Finals
7. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Conference Finals

but do not take into account these bonuses:
1. $0.4M Jaylen Brown 49 Ws pro-rated & Conference Semi-Finals
2. $0.2M Jaylen Brown NBA Finals OR All-NBA
3. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + NBA Finals
4. $0.5M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Championship

View: https://twitter.com/arampalamoudian/status/1375560248333770753
 

lexrageorge

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more classic, beef Centers for FREE

In retrospect, Danny hard-capping the team, trading 1yr of Kanter at $5MM, trading a First (Bane), spending $19MM on Tristan Thompson, and waiting 44 games to acquire a wing seems pretty bad.

Yea Danny should take a lot of the blame for 22-23
The hard cap hasn't hurt the team; the luxury tax has been the effective "hard cap" for this team anyway.

Everyone hated Kanter (the player, not the person) last year's playoffs.

Trading Bane was a bad move in retrospect. I understand why, but that one is on Danny all the way.

Thompson hasn't been bad, and the salary slot could still come in handy. And the deadline was the right time to make a move.

This is a bridge year, whether we want it to be or no, as they have no feasible path to get past the ECF (and are unlikely to even get that far). There are moves to be made this summer; just need the injury luck to even out a little bit, to be honest.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The hard cap hasn't hurt the team; the luxury tax has been the effective "hard cap" for this team anyway.

Everyone hated Kanter (the player, not the person) last year's playoffs.

Trading Bane was a bad move in retrospect. I understand why, but that one is on Danny all the way.

Thompson hasn't been bad, and the salary slot could still come in handy. And the deadline was the right time to make a move.

This is a bridge year, whether we want it to be or no, as they have no feasible path to get past the ECF (and are unlikely to even get that far). There are moves to be made this summer; just need the injury luck to even out a little bit, to be honest.
If he kept the pick, I'm not sure he picks Bane anyway. Easily could have ended up with another Grant Williams.
 

lovegtm

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Sounds your calculations are very close to this spreadsheet I found on twitter, which has the Cs approximately $650K under the cap:

View attachment 39789

His calculations also take into account the following bonuses:
1. $1.3M Jaylen Brown All-Star
2. $0.3M Jaylen Brown Conference Finals
3. $0.4M Jaylen Brown 65 GP pro-rated
4. $0.5M Marcus Smart BF%
5. $0.15M Evan Fournier 60 GP pro-rated + 75% GP Playoffs
6. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Conference Semi-Finals
7. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Conference Finals

but do not take into account these bonuses:
1. $0.4M Jaylen Brown 49 Ws pro-rated & Conference Semi-Finals
2. $0.2M Jaylen Brown NBA Finals OR All-NBA
3. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + NBA Finals
4. $0.5M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Championship

View: https://twitter.com/arampalamoudian/status/1375560248333770753
Nice post. So looks like the only way they end up in the tax is if they make the Finals.
 

Jimbodandy

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around the way
Sounds your calculations are very close to this spreadsheet I found on twitter, which has the Cs approximately $650K under the cap:

View attachment 39789

His calculations also take into account the following bonuses:
1. $1.3M Jaylen Brown All-Star
2. $0.3M Jaylen Brown Conference Finals
3. $0.4M Jaylen Brown 65 GP pro-rated
4. $0.5M Marcus Smart BF%
5. $0.15M Evan Fournier 60 GP pro-rated + 75% GP Playoffs
6. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Conference Semi-Finals
7. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Conference Finals

but do not take into account these bonuses:
1. $0.4M Jaylen Brown 49 Ws pro-rated & Conference Semi-Finals
2. $0.2M Jaylen Brown NBA Finals OR All-NBA
3. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + NBA Finals
4. $0.5M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Championship

View: https://twitter.com/arampalamoudian/status/1375560248333770753
So we're still at risk of missing reset if everything goes right for the rest of the year.
 

lexrageorge

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How do buyout guys work for the tax? Is that pro rated or does the cap hit equal what a full season minimum would be?
I think minimum salary players have their salaries pro-rate for tax purposes, but not 100% sure. If the salary is more than the minimum, there is no pro-ration.
 
Last edited:

benhogan

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The hard cap hasn't hurt the team; the luxury tax has been the effective "hard cap" for this team anyway.

Everyone hated Kanter (the player, not the person) last year's playoffs.

Trading Bane was a bad move in retrospect. I understand why, but that one is on Danny all the way.

Thompson hasn't been bad, and the salary slot could still come in handy. And the deadline was the right time to make a move.

This is a bridge year, whether we want it to be or no, as they have no feasible path to get past the ECF (and are unlikely to even get that far). There are moves to be made this summer; just need the injury luck to even out a little bit, to be honest.
Agreed, it's a bridge year, even with injury luck.

While we're looking at the midseason report card, Teague was a "D" of a minimum signing.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If he kept the pick, I'm not sure he picks Bane anyway. Easily could have ended up with another Grant Williams.
Still, the one thing I ding DA and CBS for is their obsession with Javonte Green. I was in favor of keeping Strus over him (yeah, even though he got hurt) and while i understand DA wanted to keep a non-guaranteed contract on the roster to build flexibility, if the plan is to try to get cost-controlled talent to pair with the Jays +, seems to me that the Cs needed to take as many swings in the draft as possible. Thinking that he would become a NBA contributor at 27 - even with his athleticism - seems like more of a pipe dream than hitting on someone at 30 - even if they didn't take Bane.
So we're still at risk of missing reset if everything goes right for the rest of the year.
I presume that the calculus is if the Cs make the Finals, the financial benefits will offset a good portion of the repeater taxes they will be paying.

I'm surprised that DA couldn't find a way not to take Kornet or to staple a 2nd round to him to get rid of his salary.
 

mcpickl

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How do buyout guys work for the tax? Is that pro rated or does the cap hit equal what a full season minimum would be?
It's pro-rated.

They have enough room to add one buyout guy at the veteran minimum while waiving one guy(probably Kornet)

There is even a small chance Kornet would get claimed by OKC or NY, since they are both currently below the salary floor.

Would save those teams some cash.
 

ZMart100

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Sounds your calculations are very close to this spreadsheet I found on twitter, which has the Cs approximately $650K under the cap:

View attachment 39789

His calculations also take into account the following bonuses:
1. $1.3M Jaylen Brown All-Star
2. $0.3M Jaylen Brown Conference Finals
3. $0.4M Jaylen Brown 65 GP pro-rated
4. $0.5M Marcus Smart BF%
5. $0.15M Evan Fournier 60 GP pro-rated + 75% GP Playoffs
6. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Conference Semi-Finals
7. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Conference Finals

but do not take into account these bonuses:
1. $0.4M Jaylen Brown 49 Ws pro-rated & Conference Semi-Finals
2. $0.2M Jaylen Brown NBA Finals OR All-NBA
3. $0.15M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + NBA Finals
4. $0.5M Evan Fournier (5. criteria) + Championship

View: https://twitter.com/arampalamoudian/status/1375560248333770753
Fournier out for health and safety should kill his chances at any bonuses. So the 0.45 in likely to be earned bonuses and the 0.2 in not likely to be earned can be mentally scrubbed from the liabilities for the tax.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Still, the one thing I ding DA and CBS for is their obsession with Javonte Green. I was in favor of keeping Strus over him (yeah, even though he got hurt) and while i understand DA wanted to keep a non-guaranteed contract on the roster to build flexibility, if the plan is to try to get cost-controlled talent to pair with the Jays +, seems to me that the Cs needed to take as many swings in the draft as possible. Thinking that he would become a NBA contributor at 27 - even with his athleticism - seems like more of a pipe dream than hitting on someone at 30 - even if they didn't take Bane.

I presume that the calculus is if the Cs make the Finals, the financial benefits will offset a good portion of the repeater taxes they will be paying.

I'm surprised that DA couldn't find a way not to take Kornet or to staple a 2nd round to him to get rid of his salary.
There was discussion of this is the draft thread—I still can’t fathom what the several posters who thought there wasn’t room to upgrade Javonte have been watching the last two years. It was a material and obvious mistake
 

ColonelMustard

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Woj: "Free agent LaMarcus Aldridge plans to sign with the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell ESPN." The rich get richer. What are the board's thoughts on his impact on the Nets roster?
 

PedroKsBambino

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It speaks to how bad their depth is that he’s a significant upgrade. Presumably he and DeAndre are more or less splitting C minutes based on matchups and need

Still a question of defense though—he’s more another offensive option than anything else.
 

Tony C

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Woj: "Free agent LaMarcus Aldridge plans to sign with the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell ESPN." The rich get richer. What are the board's thoughts on his impact on the Nets roster?
In the 3 games I've seen him -- pretty much backed by stats -- he's looked like toast. But there is that thing about old vets -- in the right situation and with the right motivation and in limited minutes with a defined (narrow) role, I wouldn't be surprised if he can be helpful. We've seen it before with guys who look done being able to help (Rondo last year, for example).
 

BigSoxFan

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It speaks to how bad their depth is that he’s a significant upgrade. Presumably he and DeAndre are more or less splitting C minutes based on matchups and need

Still a question of defense though—he’s more another offensive option than anything else.
Yeah, he’s pretty glacial now. Will knock down some open mid range shots but doesn’t really impact the glass and defensive side of things.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Woj: "Free agent LaMarcus Aldridge plans to sign with the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell ESPN." The rich get richer. What are the board's thoughts on his impact on the Nets roster?
i think 5 years sgo, Griffin / Aldridge / KD / Harden / Kyrie probably goes 81-1. Of course that team's payroll is something like $200M so the team would have lost $. :)
 

nighthob

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I came here to ask this question as well. Can someone explain to me what the hell Houston did in this Harden trade?
After demanding $1.08 on the dollar from Boston and 96¢ on the dollar from Philly they elected to take 11¢ on the dollar from Brooklyn. And promptly turned it into 3¢ on the dollar.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yahoo reporting that Drummond is considering the following teams:

Knicks
Lakers
Clippers
Hornets
Celtics

LA teams have to be considered the favorites but who knows what he’s looking for.
If Drummond is looking to put up (rebounding) numbers to get paid on the FA market this summer he’d be a fantastic 1/2 punch with TL.
 

benhogan

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I can't imagine Drummond goes anywhere but the LakeShow. They actually could use him right now. Gasol is hurting after a month-long battle with COVID. PLUS Drummond would compliment Bron/AD whenever they come back

Any interest in Dieng? (Knicks will probably hound him with Mitchell Robinson injured)

I'm fine with RobWilliams/Tristan sharing the 5 (w/Wagner, Kornet, Grant, Tacko as the back-up 5s).

https://fansided.com/2021/03/26/marc-gasol-covid-19-experience-terrifying/
 

benhogan

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After demanding $1.08 on the dollar from Boston and 96¢ on the dollar from Philly they elected to take 11¢ on the dollar from Brooklyn. And promptly turned it into 3¢ on the dollar.
Are there any rumors/thoughts of moving Wood this summer and doing a proper Philly multi-season tank job?

Houston would get a haul from a team like the Celtics/others.
 

nighthob

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Are there any rumors/thoughts of moving Wood this summer and doing a proper Philly multi-season tank job?

Houston would get a haul from a team like the Celtics/others.
They don’t have that option as they dealt a bunch of lightly protected picks to OKC. If they don’t win this lottery the franchise is well and truly fucked for years to come.
 

NomarsFool

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Sad situation with Horford. Is he that bad? Seems like the Celtics really dodged a bullet there.

I know that teams can send money in a trade in the NBA, but does the cap hit still apply to the new team? For example, it seems like the best resolution of this would be for OKC to pay the majority of Horfords remaining salary and trade him to a new team that would pay some amount for him (eg 5 - 10 million a year). But, do the rules not really allow that? Seems a shame for him to just sit around
 

TripleOT

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Sad situation with Horford. Is he that bad? Seems like the Celtics really dodged a bullet there.

I know that teams can send money in a trade in the NBA, but does the cap hit still apply to the new team? For example, it seems like the best resolution of this would be for OKC to pay the majority of Horfords remaining salary and trade him to a new team that would pay some amount for him (eg 5 - 10 million a year). But, do the rules not really allow that? Seems a shame for him to just sit around
Teams can’t collude/agree to do that, but when a player accepts a buyout of a non-expiring contracr, there is an assumption that he will be able to make up some of the money he leaves with his old club.

Blake Griffin had about $53 million remaining, 1.5 years of guaranteed money, when the Pistons bought him out. He left $13.3 million with them, and is getting chump change from the Nets for the rest of this season. He’s probably going to lose at least $7 million when he signs with someone next season. If he builds up value with the Nets, he might get the MLE, only losing a couple million.

Aldridge just walked away from $7.2 mil when he accepted a buyout from the Spurs. He’s basically paying almost seven mil to try to get a ring
 

lovegtm

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Teams can’t collude/agree to do that, but when a player accepts a buyout of a non-expiring contracr, there is an assumption that he will be able to make up some of the money he leaves with his old club.

Blake Griffin had about $53 million remaining, 1.5 years of guaranteed money, when the Pistons bought him out. He left $13.3 million with them, and is getting chump change from the Nets for the rest of this season. He’s probably going to lose at least $7 million when he signs with someone next season. If he builds up value with the Nets, he might get the MLE, only losing a couple million.

Aldridge just walked away from $7.2 mil when he accepted a buyout from the Spurs. He’s basically paying almost seven mil to try to get a ring
He’s paying 7M, but I imagine some guys put a high price on being able to play meaningful basketball in the last years when you can do so at an elite level.

I’m sure LaMarcus Aldridge will have a nice life when he’s done playing, but you only get a couple chances at that feeling, and then it’s gone.
 

Cesar Crespo

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He’s paying 7M, but I imagine some guys put a high price on being able to play meaningful basketball in the last years when you can do so at an elite level.

I’m sure LaMarcus Aldridge will have a nice life when he’s done playing, but you only get a couple chances at that feeling, and then it’s gone.
From what I can tell, prior to this season, LMA has made $196 million in his playing career. Add this year, and even with the buyout he's made over $200 million. He's probably going to make another $20 mil + before his career is over.

Blake Griffin, prior to this season, has made 192.5 million in his playing career. After 2021/22, he'll have made $254.5 million+ his contract next year instead of $267.8 million.

These are without endorsements.


Has the other club ever made up some of the money? I don't remember that ever being an assumption. Most of the teams acquiring the guys are close to the cap so they can only afford the minimum.

edit: If I had that much money and was at the end of my playing career, I think I'd give up a few million in future earnings to enjoy the last few years of my career and go for a ring.
 

NomarsFool

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edit: If I had that much money and was at the end of my playing career, I think I'd give up a few million in future earnings to enjoy the last few years of my career and go for a ring.
It's interesting because, aside from buyouts, you almost never see players in any sport really making this kind of decision. Yes, from time to time you hear about players taking "less money" to play with such and such a team, but I think we are usually talking about pretty small numbers of "less money". Yes, a couple of million dollars is a lot of money to you and I, but a couple of million dollars for these players really shouldn't impact them hardly at all.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It's interesting because, aside from buyouts, you almost never see players in any sport really making this kind of decision. Yes, from time to time you hear about players taking "less money" to play with such and such a team, but I think we are usually talking about pretty small numbers of "less money". Yes, a couple of million dollars is a lot of money to you and I, but a couple of million dollars for these players really shouldn't impact them hardly at all.
Yeah but sometimes the teams in other leagues are awarded picks when players leave via FA. Granted, that's usually only a small chunk of FA every year.
 

Cellar-Door

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Sad situation with Horford. Is he that bad? Seems like the Celtics really dodged a bullet there.

I know that teams can send money in a trade in the NBA, but does the cap hit still apply to the new team? For example, it seems like the best resolution of this would be for OKC to pay the majority of Horfords remaining salary and trade him to a new team that would pay some amount for him (eg 5 - 10 million a year). But, do the rules not really allow that? Seems a shame for him to just sit around
He hasn't been that bad, they just want to develop young guys. They might be able to trade him in the summer (taking back a bad contract) but I don't see them buying him out.
 

lovegtm

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Are there any interesting buyout candidates left? Barring something insane like Horford getting bought out, I haven’t heard anything.