Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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You think he should just always take higher ceiling guys?

If he did that, he probably has Fultz instead of Tatum.
And maybe Dragan Bender instead of Jaylen Brown.

I think taking a mix of risky/safe guys makes way more sense. And certainly don't think sometimes, not continually as you suggested, taking a safer guy outside of the top 10 of the first round is a fireable offense. Having rotation guys on the cheap are really valuable for playoff teams.
In scouting terms we talk about the athletic players being the high upside ones. Bender was the opposite of a high upside guy. He was a player with advanced skills for his age and people were hoping that he could learn to adapt to the speed of the NBA game. Brown was built for the speed of the NBA game, but his skills needed developing. So he was definitely the upside guy. As for Fultz v. Tatum, Tatum was the longer more athletic player. Fultz did look like he could be the next Harden, which is why he went #1.

I generally tend to look at a mix, I’m not looking solely at athletic upside. This year that athletic upside guy is Jonathan Kuminga, he’s a monster. He does have Kawhi upside. But I have him fifth on my board. The guys I have in front of him (Cade Cunningham, the Jalens, and Scottie Barnes) are also great athletes, though. Just with a better skill foundation to build on.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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In scouting terms we talk about the athletic players being the high upside ones. Bender was the opposite of a high upside guy. He was a player with advanced skills for his age and people were hoping that he could learn to adapt to the speed of the NBA game. Brown was built for the speed of the NBA game, but his skills needed developing. So he was definitely the upside guy. As for Fultz v. Tatum, Tatum was the longer more athletic player. Fultz did look like he could be the next Harden, which is why he went #1.

I generally tend to look at a mix, I’m not looking solely at athletic upside. This year that athletic upside guy is Jonathan Kuminga, he’s a monster. He does have Kawhi upside. But I have him fifth on my board. The guys I have in front of him (Cade Cunningham, the Jalens, and Scottie Barnes) are also great athletes, though. Just with a better skill foundation to build on.
To be clear to others (as I know you know this)......I am in favor of drafting the more raw, athletic high-upside player when rebuilding or when the team is stuck in neutral as the non-impact JAG isn’t going to move the needle on this type of team.

This is different when you are a team competing for a championship as there is value in finding a physically-ready college player like a Glen Davis on the cheap to fill a role on a contender. In this example, Big Baby provides tremendous value......if Ainge selected him during a rebuild it would essentially be one less bullet you have to find an impact guy even at #35 which is where you’d have found the raw and athletically gifted DeAndre Jordan the following year (and Jordan would have been a terrible pick for Boston had he been available that year instead of Baby for this particular team).
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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I just want to remind everyone, and I thought this was settled and I retired my catch phrase, but since it is Easter I will bring it back:

YOU NEVER TRADE JAYSON TATUM
 

nighthob

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I’m not in favor of dealing Tatum. I was pointing out that dealing Tatum isn’t necessarily a harbinger of 30 win seasons.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
Summer School for Danny & Co. Their to-do list:

1. Sign TL to 4yr for ~$50-64MM. maybe a pipe dream? BUT Rob's been oft-injured/ Noel cautionary tale. 4yr guaranteed money means starting spot and respect. Might just be enough for someone that started the season as Brad's 3rd string Center. If you are Rob's agent you just hit the lottery and sign it before he trips over a curb.

2. Sign Fournier 4yrs ~ $70MM. Maybe his added +shooting ends the Tatum/Brown ISO show and they can start playing better D.

3. Deal Kemba for old friend Al Horford. OKC could quickly rehab Kemba by making him their 2nd scoring option, which turns him back into a fun-loving 22ppg microwave. Presti the Magician does it again!
TL can learn the fine arts of being a point Center under Horford. 2nd year of Horford's contract guarantees him $14MM, easier to deal in midseason for a wing if he doesn't add value.

4. Tristan Thompson + (2) 2nds for Hogan favorite Delon Wright. Sac is losing Holmes/Whiteside, TT slides into their starting Center spot

5. Start contract year Smart at PG, think he comes back in much better shape. I'd bet we see a more disciplined Smart looking for his final payday.

6. Give Green Kornet and/or Wagner vet min 1yr deals. Deep bench depth

7. Use the last of the GH TPE (probably hitting the cap but what the hell it's my imaginary team)
Trade 1st round pick + Carsen Edwards for last year of Kyle Anderson (another BH favorite)

8. Sign David Nwaba (one more BH favorite) to vet min deal

9. Say goodbye to Waters/Tacko, add new 2-way players.

10. Since we're talking draft go for Quentin Grimes in the 2nd round, one of the best defensive guards I saw in college this season. Projected to go deep in 2nd round (48th)

http://www.tankathon.com/players/quentin-grimes


Smart, Tatum, Brown, Fournier, Rob Williams

Horford, Delon Wright, Kyle Anderson, Pritchard , Nwaba, Nesmith, Langford, Wagner, Kornet,
slimmed-down Grant Williams (ML Carr towel waver role)

2-way: Grimes
 
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bosockboy

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Jul 15, 2005
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Summer School for Danny & Co. Their to-do list:

1. Sign TL to 4yr for ~$50-64MM. maybe a pipe dream? BUT Rob's been oft-injured/ Noel cautionary tale. 4yr guaranteed money means starting spot and respect. Might just be enough for someone that started the season as Brad's 3rd string Center. If you are Rob's agent you just hit the lottery and sign it before he trips over a curb.

2. Sign Fournier 4yrs ~ $70MM. Maybe his added +shooting ends the Tatum/Brown ISO show and they can start playing better D.

3. Deal Kemba for old friend Al Horford. OKC could quickly rehab Kemba by making him their 2nd scoring option, which turns him back into a fun-loving 22ppg microwave. Presti the Magician does it again!
TL can learn the fine arts of being a point Center under Horford. 2nd year of Horford's contract guarantees him $14MM, easier to deal in midseason for a wing if he doesn't add value.

4. Tristan Thompson + (2) 2nds for Hogan favorite Delon Wright. Sac is losing Holmes/Whiteside, TT slides into their starting Center spot

5. Start contract year Smart at PG, think he comes back in much better shape. I'd bet we see a more disciplined Smart looking for his final payday.

6. Give Green Kornet and/or Wagner vet min 1yr deals. Deep bench depth

7. Use the last of the GH TPE (probably hitting the cap but what the hell it's my imaginary team)
Trade 1st round pick + Carsen Edwards for last year of Kyle Anderson (another BH favorite)

8. Sign David Nwaba (one more BH favorite) to vet min deal

9. Say goodbye to Waters/Tacko, add new 2-way players.

10. Since we're talking draft go for Quentin Grimes in the 2nd round, one of the best defensive guards I saw in college this season. Projected to go deep in 2nd round (48th)

http://www.tankathon.com/players/quentin-grimes


Smart, Tatum, Brown, Fournier, Rob Williams

Horford, Delon Wright, Kyle Anderson, Nwaba, Nesmith, Langford, Wagner, Kornet,
slimmed-down Grant Williams (ML Carr towel waver role), Grimes
No Pritchard love?
 

Jakarta

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Dec 18, 2020
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It’s funny how a couple of wins against bad/depleted teams changes my perspective, but I can see what they are trying to become and want to see how the newly transformed Celtics play.

Since the all star break they are shooting almost 9 more 3s a game than before the break while keeping 3pm% the same. I think the success of this change will impact what the offseason looks like. If they look good, acquire more shooting and go all in on the outshooting team’s strategy. If not, reassess and probably make a big trade to shake up the team.

I personally think the current team has a real chance to make this work. With Fournier taking minutes and touches away from the likes of Semi/Grant/Javonte/Theis, and moving Smart down the pecking order to a role better suited for him - defensive pest and offensive facilitator who hits the occasional 3 (he’s been great the last two games) I think we are going to see this shift in strategy pay off. Running the offense through TL also seems to be generating better looks for everyone which will further help the offense (perhaps if Tatum see how effective this is enough times, and that the open shots are now going to actual good shooters, he will even start to help the ball movement).

Plus Romeo provides additional upside for this team as he is almost guaranteed to be at least as productive as Semi and Grant, and highly likely to be much more productive. He also has an outside chance of being move valuable (albeit very different value) than Kemba by the time the playoffs come around. He does however most likely hurt the spacing and strategy to shoot more 3s (his impressive 100% 3p% notwithstanding!)

I think provided this team can be reasonably healthy the rest of the way this team still has great upside.

There’s a possibility that come playoff time with shortened rotations, the 192 guard/wing minutes go to JT (40 minutes), JB (40 minutes), Fournier (35 minutes) and Smart (35 minutes). That would leave 42 minutes for a combination of Kemba, Romeo and probably a bit of Pritchard. Brad could play guys in favorable matchups, but this is probably dependent on Kemba agreeing to come off the bench for 25 minutes to be a Lou Williams type (and if he has it going offensively his minutes can go up substantially). That looks a lot different than those minutes being soaked up by Semi and Grant.

Needless to say I’m excited to see how they play the next couple weeks and months to see if this plan can come together. If the team starts to gel and makes a playoff run, I expect Ainge will continue to tinker around the edges. And if it doesn’t work and they lose in ugly fashion in the first round, I will hope and expect Ainge makes a big trade or 2 to shake up the team.
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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Summer School for Danny & Co. Their to-do list:

1. Sign TL to 4yr for ~$50-64MM. maybe a pipe dream? BUT Rob's been oft-injured/ Noel cautionary tale. 4yr guaranteed money means starting spot and respect. Might just be enough for someone that started the season as Brad's 3rd string Center. If you are Rob's agent you just hit the lottery and sign it before he trips over a curb.

2. Sign Fournier 4yrs ~ $70MM. Maybe his added +shooting ends the Tatum/Brown ISO show and they can start playing better D.

3. Deal Kemba for old friend Al Horford. OKC could quickly rehab Kemba by making him their 2nd scoring option, which turns him back into a fun-loving 22ppg microwave. Presti the Magician does it again!
TL can learn the fine arts of being a point Center under Horford. 2nd year of Horford's contract guarantees him $14MM, easier to deal in midseason for a wing if he doesn't add value.

4. Tristan Thompson + (2) 2nds for Hogan favorite Delon Wright. Sac is losing Holmes/Whiteside, TT slides into their starting Center spot

5. Start contract year Smart at PG, think he comes back in much better shape. I'd bet we see a more disciplined Smart looking for his final payday.

6. Give Green Kornet and/or Wagner vet min 1yr deals. Deep bench depth

7. Use the last of the GH TPE (probably hitting the cap but what the hell it's my imaginary team)
Trade 1st round pick + Carsen Edwards for last year of Kyle Anderson (another BH favorite)

8. Sign David Nwaba (one more BH favorite) to vet min deal

9. Say goodbye to Waters/Tacko, add new 2-way players.

10. Since we're talking draft go for Quentin Grimes in the 2nd round, one of the best defensive guards I saw in college this season. Projected to go deep in 2nd round (48th)

http://www.tankathon.com/players/quentin-grimes


Smart, Tatum, Brown, Fournier, Rob Williams

Horford, Delon Wright, Kyle Anderson, Pritchard , Nwaba, Nesmith, Langford, Wagner, Kornet,
slimmed-down Grant Williams (ML Carr towel waver role)

2-way: Grimes
Horford for Kemba might be doable from OKC's perspective if you squint, since they'd try to get him putting up points and then flip him for yet another pick late in his deal.

A 1st for expiring Kyle Anderson? Are you high? This isn't going to be a particularly low non-lottery 1st either, but that doesn't matter at all, because he's not worth anything remotely near that.

I'd like to see the Celtics use their picks and tradeable contracts to go bigger than this, even if they keep the J/J/TL/Fournier setup.

Going big and competent at the 1 with someone like Wright is the correct move for this team's construction.
 
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BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
47,094
Summer School for Danny & Co. Their to-do list:

1. Sign TL to 4yr for ~$50-64MM. maybe a pipe dream? BUT Rob's been oft-injured/ Noel cautionary tale. 4yr guaranteed money means starting spot and respect. Might just be enough for someone that started the season as Brad's 3rd string Center. If you are Rob's agent you just hit the lottery and sign it before he trips over a curb.

2. Sign Fournier 4yrs ~ $70MM. Maybe his added +shooting ends the Tatum/Brown ISO show and they can start playing better D.

3. Deal Kemba for old friend Al Horford. OKC could quickly rehab Kemba by making him their 2nd scoring option, which turns him back into a fun-loving 22ppg microwave. Presti the Magician does it again!
TL can learn the fine arts of being a point Center under Horford. 2nd year of Horford's contract guarantees him $14MM, easier to deal in midseason for a wing if he doesn't add value.

4. Tristan Thompson + (2) 2nds for Hogan favorite Delon Wright. Sac is losing Holmes/Whiteside, TT slides into their starting Center spot

5. Start contract year Smart at PG, think he comes back in much better shape. I'd bet we see a more disciplined Smart looking for his final payday.

6. Give Green Kornet and/or Wagner vet min 1yr deals. Deep bench depth

7. Use the last of the GH TPE (probably hitting the cap but what the hell it's my imaginary team)
Trade 1st round pick + Carsen Edwards for last year of Kyle Anderson (another BH favorite)

8. Sign David Nwaba (one more BH favorite) to vet min deal

9. Say goodbye to Waters/Tacko, add new 2-way players.

10. Since we're talking draft go for Quentin Grimes in the 2nd round, one of the best defensive guards I saw in college this season. Projected to go deep in 2nd round (48th)

http://www.tankathon.com/players/quentin-grimes


Smart, Tatum, Brown, Fournier, Rob Williams

Horford, Delon Wright, Kyle Anderson, Pritchard , Nwaba, Nesmith, Langford, Wagner, Kornet,
slimmed-down Grant Williams (ML Carr towel waver role)

2-way: Grimes
Don’t love the Kyle Anderson move but otherwise a pretty solid plan that is somewhat realistic.
 

pjheff

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Jan 4, 2003
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Plus Romeo provides additional upside for this team as he is almost guaranteed to be at least as productive as Semi and Grant, and highly likely to be much more productive.
I like Langford, but can you offer any evidence to support your assertions that these scenarios are “guaranteed” and “highly likely,” respectively?
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
Horford for Kemba might be doable from OKC's perspective if you squint, since they'd try to get him putting up points and then flip him for yet another pick late in his deal.

A 1st for expiring Kyle Anderson? Are you high? This isn't going to be a particularly low non-lottery 1st either, but that doesn't matter at all, because he's not worth anything remotely near that.

I'd like to see the Celtics use their picks and tradeable contracts to go bigger than this, even if they keep the J/J/TL/Fournier setup.

Going big and competent at the 1 with someone like Wright is the correct move for this team's construction.
Come on people, I was expecting to get panned more than that ;)

Kemba's happy times' play would be a nice reprieve for OKC fans. They don't need Al's solid all-around game, nothing sexy about that. OKC could give Kemba what he needs most, SHOTS, to regain his value for either a trade or opt-out. After a few games, I'm ready for Fournier to take KWs spot, clearly, I have a bias. Boston is not a great place for Kemba to rehab his deteriorating knee. A nice guy, but his Ole defense is infectious and turns our defense into a rotating pinball machine. When I go bad on Danny it's on the Kemba ego-saving max deal, not his draft record.

Not a fan of Slow-Mo? I actually thought I'd get pushback the other way (a 1st is not enough for the Memphis starter). I think we have enough young bench players to develop (Langford, Nesmith, Grant, PP) I'm ready for Danny to deal a 20s pick for a solid rotational veteran. Kyle's so Spurs-trained he completely flies under the radar. Much like Delon an adv metric darling, Swiss Army knife, plus defender, having a breakout season at 28. He'd be a Celtic rotational player that does his job with little fanfare, takes the Euro step/shot to Lawrence Moten levels. I'll just post his stats and ask you to take a quick look again (I have to give @PedroKsBambino credit for getting me to look deeper into Kyle a few months back)

Kyle Anderson was on my list beginning of year and I think the same question is out there: does Memphis want to move him? You can see why they might, at least once JJJ Clarke are healthy and as they explore more with Bane. He's not a knock-down shooter, but can handle, pass, and defend. To me, he's a budget version of Barnes
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01.html


All these moves don't preclude Danny from going for the Wizards White Whale. BUT feel JayCrew possesses more untapped upside that all Danny needs to do is surround them with solid pros (that play D & move the ball) and let the team blossom.
 
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HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
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Jan 15, 2004
30,096
I like Langford, but can you offer any evidence to support your assertions that these scenarios are “guaranteed” and “highly likely,” respectively?
We haven’t seen Romeo on the floor (or in public) in a year so any evidence would be dated but the Semi/Grant bar of throwing shit to see if it sticks isn’t a very high one.
 

slamminsammya

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Jul 31, 2006
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San Francisco
Come on people, I was expecting to get panned more than that ;)

Kemba's happy times' play would be a nice reprieve for OKC fans. They don't need Al's solid all-around game, nothing sexy about that. OKC could give Kemba what he needs most, SHOTS, to regain his value for either a trade or opt-out. After a few games, I'm ready for Fournier to take KWs spot, clearly, I have a bias. Boston is not a great place for Kemba to rehab his deteriorating knee. A nice guy, but his Ole defense is infectious and turns our defense into a rotating pinball machine. When I go bad on Danny it's on the Kemba ego-saving max deal, not his draft record.

Not a fan of Slow-Mo? I actually thought I'd get pushback the other way (a 1st is not enough for the Memphis starter). I think we have enough young bench players to develop (Langford, Nesmith, Grant, PP) I'm ready for Danny to deal a 20s pick for a solid rotational veteran. Kyle's so Spurs-trained he completely flies under the radar. Much like Delon an adv metric darling, Swiss Army knife, plus defender, having a breakout season at 28. He'd be a Celtic rotational player that does his job with little fanfare, takes the Euro step/shot to Lawrence Moten levels. Having a breakout year, I'll just post his stats and ask you to take a quick look again (I have to give @PedroKsBambino credit for getting me to look deeper into Kyle a few months back)



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01.html


All these moves don't preclude Danny from going for the Wizards White Whale. BUT feel JayCrew possesses more untapped upside that all Danny needs to do is surround them with solid pros (that play D & move the ball) and let the team blossom.
He has one of the best nicknames in the NBA IMO and also the most impressive collection of YMCA layup highlights I think Ive ever seen from a pro. So that would be really nice.

I mean look at this
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsGfSQNGqMM&ab_channel=BallBoy
 

pjheff

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Jan 4, 2003
1,302
We haven’t seen Romeo on the floor (or in public) in a year so any evidence would be dated but the Semi/Grant bar of throwing shit to see if it sticks isn’t a very high one.
I realize their limitations, but they are physical players who have shot .392/.395 from three this season. I don’t see any evidence to suggest that Langford matching their production is guaranteed or surpassing it is highly likely.
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Come on people, I was expecting to get panned more than that ;)

Kemba's happy times' play would be a nice reprieve for OKC fans. They don't need Al's solid all-around game, nothing sexy about that. OKC could give Kemba what he needs most, SHOTS, to regain his value for either a trade or opt-out. After a few games, I'm ready for Fournier to take KWs spot, clearly, I have a bias. Boston is not a great place for Kemba to rehab his deteriorating knee. A nice guy, but his Ole defense is infectious and turns our defense into a rotating pinball machine. When I go bad on Danny it's on the Kemba ego-saving max deal, not his draft record.

Not a fan of Slow-Mo? I actually thought I'd get pushback the other way (a 1st is not enough for the Memphis starter). I think we have enough young bench players to develop (Langford, Nesmith, Grant, PP) I'm ready for Danny to deal a 20s pick for a solid rotational veteran. Kyle's so Spurs-trained he completely flies under the radar. Much like Delon an adv metric darling, Swiss Army knife, plus defender, having a breakout season at 28. He'd be a Celtic rotational player that does his job with little fanfare, takes the Euro step/shot to Lawrence Moten levels. Having a breakout year, I'll just post his stats and ask you to take a quick look again (I have to give @PedroKsBambino credit for getting me to look deeper into Kyle a few months back)



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01.html


All these moves don't preclude Danny from going for the Wizards White Whale. BUT feel JayCrew possesses more untapped upside that all Danny needs to do is surround them with solid pros (that play D & move the ball) and let the team blossom.
The Celtics need shooting from guard/wing, as much shooting as possible. Fournier was the first step they've taken in that direction, and it already has a big trickle-down effect.

I think trading 1st rounders for vets is absolutely the right move, but the vets need to fit a specific profile, and Anderson doesn't.
 

Euclis20

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Aug 3, 2004
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Imaginationland
To be clear to others (as I know you know this)......I am in favor of drafting the more raw, athletic high-upside player when rebuilding or when the team is stuck in neutral as the non-impact JAG isn’t going to move the needle on this type of team.

This is different when you are a team competing for a championship as there is value in finding a physically-ready college player like a Glen Davis on the cheap to fill a role on a contender. In this example, Big Baby provides tremendous value......if Ainge selected him during a rebuild it would essentially be one less bullet you have to find an impact guy even at #35 which is where you’d have found the raw and athletically gifted DeAndre Jordan the following year (and Jordan would have been a terrible pick for Boston had he been available that year instead of Baby for this particular team).
I agree with this theory wholeheartedly, but the Celtics were in an interesting position the last few years. They were clearly rebuilding (on and off), but also competing for a title. Three EC finals in four years with a very young team sounds great, but it makes draft strategy difficult - do you aim high knowing that you might be wasting title contending years in the hopes that you hit a home run later? Or do you get help now, knowing that the guys you're drafting are unlikely to be much more than solid role players? Grant Williams in particular is interesting to look at. He's unlikely to ever be great and could be considered a wasted pick on such a young team, but he was also on the court in the closing minutes of game 7 of the EC semis last year, and made the key defensive play to clinch the win.

It's really been a great ride, but I don't know for how much longer Ainge can have it both ways.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
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Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
All these moves don't preclude Danny from going for the Wizards White Whale. BUT feel JayCrew possesses more untapped upside that all Danny needs to do is surround them with solid pros (that play D & move the ball) and let the team blossom.
henceforth, I'm altering JayCrew to JayRob! (there were alternatives but fear the Woke patrol)

Tatum + Brown + Rob Williams is my new ascending sub-group.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
The Celtics need shooting from guard/wing, as much shooting as possible. Fournier was the first step they've taken in that direction, and it already has a big trickle-down effect.

I think trading 1st rounders for vets is absolutely the right move, but the vets need to fit a specific profile, and Anderson doesn't.
Yea, don't disagree. Think the Sixers/Bucks were clever by adding Curry/Green & Porter/Forbes last Fall.

I'm still dreaming that summer, some G-League play, practices will be a blessing for Nesmith. Really like that he hasn't sulked one bit and dives all over the court.

What shooter is on the radar? Looks like Gary Trent Jr will be on Toronto next season.
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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Yea, don't disagree. Think the Sixers were clever by adding Curry/Green last Fall.

I'm still dreaming that summer, some G-League play, practices will be a blessing for Nesmith. Really like that he hasn't sulked one bit and dives all over the court.

What shooter is on the radar? Looks like Gary Trent Jr will be on Toronto next season.
I'd be interested in a S&T for Lonzo.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
47,094
Come on people, I was expecting to get panned more than that ;)

Kemba's happy times' play would be a nice reprieve for OKC fans. They don't need Al's solid all-around game, nothing sexy about that. OKC could give Kemba what he needs most, SHOTS, to regain his value for either a trade or opt-out. After a few games, I'm ready for Fournier to take KWs spot, clearly, I have a bias. Boston is not a great place for Kemba to rehab his deteriorating knee. A nice guy, but his Ole defense is infectious and turns our defense into a rotating pinball machine. When I go bad on Danny it's on the Kemba ego-saving max deal, not his draft record.

Not a fan of Slow-Mo? I actually thought I'd get pushback the other way (a 1st is not enough for the Memphis starter). I think we have enough young bench players to develop (Langford, Nesmith, Grant, PP) I'm ready for Danny to deal a 20s pick for a solid rotational veteran. Kyle's so Spurs-trained he completely flies under the radar. Much like Delon an adv metric darling, Swiss Army knife, plus defender, having a breakout season at 28. He'd be a Celtic rotational player that does his job with little fanfare, takes the Euro step/shot to Lawrence Moten levels. Having a breakout year, I'll just post his stats and ask you to take a quick look again (I have to give @PedroKsBambino credit for getting me to look deeper into Kyle a few months back)



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01.html


All these moves don't preclude Danny from going for the Wizards White Whale. BUT feel JayCrew possesses more untapped upside that all Danny needs to do is surround them with solid pros (that play D & move the ball) and let the team blossom.
A Kemba for Average Al deal is what I'm hoping for. We know Horford is good in this system and have the ability to not overwork him. He's done pretty well in a tough situation in OKC this year and with him being shut down so they can look at other guys, he's only really played 1 full season in the last 2.
 

BigSoxFan

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It isn't likely they'll be able to stay under the apron with Tatum's extension kicking in next year, so sign and trades are likely off the table.
Yup. Pretty much need to dump Kemba into someone's cap space to allow for S&T, which is a TALL order...
 

lovegtm

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what's Lonz's estimated RFA bill? 4 x $100MM?

Smart + TT + Nesmith works $ wise in a S&T
The issue is that you also need to lower Kemba's hit to be below the apron.

I'm more optimistic than most that Kemba can be moved, since we just saw Horford's similarly unmoveable deal get moved for not a huge price.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
30,096
what's Lonz's estimated RFA bill? 4 x $100MM?

Smart + TT + Nesmith works $ wise in a S&T
Is there any indication that Lonzo wants to play in Boston or has a connection to the East Coast? It just seems like a far fetched idea that a west coast guy would randomly choose to play in Boston
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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The issue is that you also need to lower Kemba's hit to be below the apron.

I'm more optimistic than most that Kemba can be moved, since we just saw Horford's similarly unmoveable deal get moved for not a huge price.
Right, if they do a S&T they are hard capped around $135million (depending on how financials come in), and they already have almost that much committed before Fournier. They'd need to shed serious dollars to be able to S&T next year.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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Is there any indication that Lonzo wants to play in Boston or has a connection to the East Coast? It just seems like a far fetched idea that a west coast guy would randomly choose to play in Boston
I wouldn't be shocked if NOLA wants to keep him. or Klutch gets him back on the West Coast or Miami, well before Boston takes a crack at the Lonz
 

bakahump

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Am I crazy to be willing to Pay (2 Firsts) for Kemba to Go away and get back whatever we can. I am under no illusions it will be alot. Maybe a Fournier Level player or an Expiring.
You roll with JB,JT a Resigned TL (using some of Kembas money) a resigned Fournier (using some of Kembas money and maybe some Smart money) the "New Guy" that you got for Kemba, TT, PP, AN and RL as your "core", Wagner, Kornet, Granite and filler.
Upon reflection "New Guy" needs to be a Pointguard. Lonzo really would solve alot of problems.
You trade Smart (for a First?? to help ditch Kemba??)
You staple 2 Firsts to Kemba to make him leave.

So can you convince NO to take Kemba and 2 Firsts for Lonzo?
Or Can you convince NO to take Smart for Lonzo (do you need more)? While ditching Kemba and the Firsts to whoever will pay the frieght?

Talk to me people. Lets build around Smart+ or Kemba+ for Lonzo. What works?

Lonzo,PP, (RL) Point
JB,JT,Fourn, AN,RL,Granite (wings)
Wagner,Kornet (big wings)
TL, TT Kornet/Wagner (C)
+ whatever you can get for Kemba (ideally a Wing Vet)
 

nighthob

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I'd be interested in a S&T for Lonzo.
The Knicks are planning on throwing a max offer at the Lonz. So he probably won't be available for trade until the '23 season. And that's assuming that New Orleans matches the offer with the intention of keeping him.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't get the appeal of blowing up a big chunk of the roster to accomodate trading a bunch for Lonzo. Also, I really think he has no interest in coming to Boston anyway. He's a decent enough player, but not someone I'd be rushing out to pay what he's going to get, nevermind giving up assets to do it.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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I don't get the appeal of blowing up a big chunk of the roster to accomodate trading a bunch for Lonzo. Also, I really think he has no interest in coming to Boston anyway. He's a decent enough player, but not someone I'd be rushing out to pay what he's going to get, nevermind giving up assets to do it.
Yeah, I was interested in Lonzo pre-Fournier but now I'm pretty much all set.
 

the moops

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Jan 19, 2016
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The Knicks are planning on throwing a max offer at the Lonz. So he probably won't be available for trade until the '23 season. And that's assuming that New Orleans matches the offer with the intention of keeping him.
I haven't seen this. That seems bonkers to me to give a max out to Lonzo.
 

NomarsFool

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Dec 21, 2001
8,160
It's almost certainly wishful thinking, but it'd be awesome to see enough of Romeo over the remainder of the season to know how he slots into the Celtics' long-term plans. In general, I think their biggest need is for somebody between Tatum/Brown and TimeLord. Somebody who can be a bit more of a physical 4 - but still mobile and agile enough to be considered a wing.That's what I hoped Grant Williams would be, but I don't think that's happening at this point.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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The second word of his post is the key one.
I don’t think they would be the only one. How many teams will have a max salary slot available this summer? Now fit the available free agents into those slots. Collins is a certainty but Ball fits too.
 

nighthob

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I haven't seen this. That seems bonkers to me to give a max out to Lonzo.
The rumor popped up a couple of times in trade deadline articles where the Ball market was being discussed. The Knicks interest in Ball had depressed the trade market because no one was thrilled about Ball as a rental with the Knicks waiting to overpay him.
 

Jakarta

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Dec 18, 2020
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It's almost certainly wishful thinking, but it'd be awesome to see enough of Romeo over the remainder of the season to know how he slots into the Celtics' long-term plans. In general, I think their biggest need is for somebody between Tatum/Brown and TimeLord. Somebody who can be a bit more of a physical 4 - but still mobile and agile enough to be considered a wing.That's what I hoped Grant Williams would be, but I don't think that's happening at this point.
I imagine this will be Tatum’s role starting next season, if it isn’t already. He has the height and has gained enough strength in the last few years that he should be able to deal with almost all big wings. It also potentially creates great mismatches on the offensive end where big wings won’t have the quickness to keep up with Tatum.

I think Romeo’s upside would be allowing the team to play to play him in an Evan Turner lead guard, jack-of-trades-master-of-none type role where his on ball defense allows guys like Smart and Tatum to be off ball defensive monsters on the wing, and prevents teams from hunting guys like Kemba. There’s also enough ball handling between the 4 wings that I wouldn’t lose any sleep over not having a traditional PG to initiate the offense. I’d love to see what a Romeo/Smart/JB/JT/TL lineup could do in extended minutes.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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There’s also enough ball handling between the 4 wings that I wouldn’t lose any sleep over not having a traditional PG to initiate the offense. I’d love to see what a Romeo/Smart/JB/JT/TL lineup could do in extended minutes.
Agree with the ball-handling aspects between the 4 wings. Really like the idea of Rob Williams as a Point5 handing the ball off, then screening/rolling OR whipping a pass backdoor to a cutting wing.

I see Romeo as the next version of Marcus. I'd rather not have them on the floor together for spacing purposes on offense.

Not that it's in Brad's nature but a 2-3 zone with Tatum/Brown up top + Fournier/Smart on the wing + TL protecting the rim would be special.
 

Devizier

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Moving...

I'm so ready for a Summer re-jiggering.
I don't see a whole lot out there for Kemba. I don't think his salary is even the hold up here, because a bunch of mediocre players are going to get paid this offseason. It's that a lot of teams are set at the position and those that aren't have nothing (e.g. Lakers) or an even worse player (Houston) to send back.
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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Moving...

I don't see a whole lot out there for Kemba. I don't think his salary is even the hold up here, because a bunch of mediocre players are going to get paid this offseason. It's that a lot of teams are set at the position and those that aren't have nothing (e.g. Lakers) or an even worse player (Houston) to send back.
Something with OKC for Horford probably works best, especially since Kemba likely opts out after a year there. Seems like the kind of deal that OKC would do for a low first.

You could then go turn the remaining TPE into a Delon Wright-type big guard, or into a mediocre vet wing, and have Smart/PP play point.
 

Cellar-Door

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Something with OKC for Horford probably works best, especially since Kemba likely opts out after a year there. Seems like the kind of deal that OKC would do for a low first.

You could then go turn the remaining TPE into a Delon Wright-type big guard, or into a mediocre vet wing, and have Smart/PP play point.
I don't get this idea at all.
The Celtics don't need Horford... he's purely a 5 right now and with TL breaking out Al contributes less positively than Kemba.

Also, I think Kemba has more value in the market than Horford. He's still a good player.
Teams I would look for... Orlando, NYK maybe NOP.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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I don't get this idea at all.
The Celtics don't need Horford... he's purely a 5 right now and with TL breaking out Al contributes less positively than Kemba.

Also, I think Kemba has more value in the market than Horford. He's still a good player.
Teams I would look for... Orlando, NYK maybe NOP.
Great, we've got a bidding war for Kemba.

Sign me up!

You do need more than one 5, they get injured. Al hasn't lost much of a step, the Brad machine will Make Al Great Again
 

lovegtm

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I don't get this idea at all.
The Celtics don't need Horford... he's purely a 5 right now and with TL breaking out Al contributes less positively than Kemba.

Also, I think Kemba has more value in the market than Horford. He's still a good player.
Teams I would look for... Orlando, NYK maybe NOP.
The idea would be that you save money and also make TT moveable (possibly as part of Smart+TT package for a wing upgrade). You'd be expecting Horford to play ~15-20 mins/game in this scenario, and I think he's a significant upgrade on TT, even at his age, since he's been in shrinkwrap awhile and could be managed ultra-conservatively going forward.

The problem with the "Kemba is a good player" line of reasoning, in terms of keeping him on the Celtics, is that he brings down the defense while not adding as much offensive upside as you'd want, because of Tatum/Brown already being there as primary scorers. We've already seen with Fournier how much value the team gets from a true off-ball threat, as opposed to a small guard masquerading as one. Adding another guy like that would have a huge compounding effect on offense.

However, if Orlando/NYK/NOP are in the market for Kemba, then I absolutely do that. OKC is a backup plan. I'm skeptical he'll have that kind of market, but his knee does seem to have been fairly healthy in a way that makes his final 2 years less risky.