Celtics Plan, Summer 2021

NomarsFool · Aug 5, 2021

Other than not having Beal for the end of the 21-22 season, is there any benefit to the Celtics trading for Beal before the S&T season?

To frame it another way, next summer it seems like all the eggs are really in the Celtics' basket. Doesn't seem like they should have to offer much in a S&T - although it seems like the value of that is all over the place. Sometimes seems like teams offer a 2nd to be able to S&T a player (instead of signing him outright), sometimes more than that, and sometimes (like the Hayward situation) the team losing the player actually sends assets to create a TPE.

To put it another way, I can see a mid-season trade costing the Celtics some legitimate assets. If they just wait until next summer, would they be able to S&T for Beal for next to nothing?

lexrageorge · Aug 5, 2021

NomarsFool said:
Other than not having Beal for the end of the 21-22 season, is there any benefit to the Celtics trading for Beal before the S&T season?

To frame it another way, next summer it seems like all the eggs are really in the Celtics' basket. Doesn't seem like they should have to offer much in a S&T - although it seems like the value of that is all over the place. Sometimes seems like teams offer a 2nd to be able to S&T a player (instead of signing him outright), sometimes more than that, and sometimes (like the Hayward situation) the team losing the player actually sends assets to create a TPE.

To put it another way, I can see a mid-season trade costing the Celtics some legitimate assets. If they just wait until next summer, would they be able to S&T for Beal for next to nothing?

It depends how much salary the Celtics would want to renounce.

To sign Beal outright, they lose Smart, Horford, and R. Williams, all for nothing. In a S&T, they can perhaps send one or two of them out, and then use the combination of cap space and outgoing salaries to sign Beal, and still be able to retain those that are not traded. Clear benefit to the Celtics, and also to the Wizards.

One advantage of a deadline trade would be the Celtics would not be hard capped at the taxpayer threshold next season, and so the extra space could be helpful in bringing in some veteran help.

OurF'ingCity · Aug 5, 2021

NomarsFool said:
Other than not having Beal for the end of the 21-22 season, is there any benefit to the Celtics trading for Beal before the S&T season?

To frame it another way, next summer it seems like all the eggs are really in the Celtics' basket. Doesn't seem like they should have to offer much in a S&T - although it seems like the value of that is all over the place. Sometimes seems like teams offer a 2nd to be able to S&T a player (instead of signing him outright), sometimes more than that, and sometimes (like the Hayward situation) the team losing the player actually sends assets to create a TPE.

To put it another way, I can see a mid-season trade costing the Celtics some legitimate assets. If they just wait until next summer, would they be able to S&T for Beal for next to nothing?

The benefit is that a trade guarantees you the player. If they wait until the off-season, sure they might think they have a good shot at getting Beal but any number of other teams will also be in play.

pjheff · Aug 5, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
Yeah, you're missing the point.

Yeah, that wasn’t the point. I never denied that it would be more advantageous to trade for a star in-season rather than renounce away the roster to create cap space next summer. What I do deny is your initial claim that it’s essentially Beal or bust due to the weak F.A. class next summer. They could just as easily trade a disgruntled star into that freed cap space as they could sign-and-trade or sign Beal into it. Stevens is not limited to the available free agents to land his third pillar.

HomeRunBaker · Aug 5, 2021

OurF'ingCity said:
The benefit is that a trade guarantees you the player. If they wait until the off-season, sure they might think they have a good shot at getting Beal but any number of other teams will also be in play.

Yes this is important. The sooner something happens with Beal demanding a trade the better. If next summer comes around and he is still in DC as FA approaches people “shouldn’t” feel that all is ok and it was always going to come to this.......no, there are two important windows that give us an opportunity that would have been closed, a trade demand prior to training camp (or any day beginning now) and one leading up to the deadline. It is not ok to have Beal entering FA next summer.

Rustjive · Aug 5, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
It is not ok to have Beal entering FA next summer.

That's understandable, but imagine how weird (and bad) it would be if he didn't re-sign with WAS but he ALSO didn't come to the Celtics to play with his little brother in Tatum. Celtics fandom might actually literally explode at the implications of that.

JakeRae · Aug 5, 2021

NomarsFool said:
Other than not having Beal for the end of the 21-22 season, is there any benefit to the Celtics trading for Beal before the S&T season?

To frame it another way, next summer it seems like all the eggs are really in the Celtics' basket. Doesn't seem like they should have to offer much in a S&T - although it seems like the value of that is all over the place. Sometimes seems like teams offer a 2nd to be able to S&T a player (instead of signing him outright), sometimes more than that, and sometimes (like the Hayward situation) the team losing the player actually sends assets to create a TPE.

To put it another way, I can see a mid-season trade costing the Celtics some legitimate assets. If they just wait until next summer, would they be able to S&T for Beal for next to nothing?

There are meaningful deal structure differences. In a mid-season trade we can use expiring salaries to package up to the amount of salary we need. For example, I think Richardson, Smart and Dunn is sufficient salary or Horford and Dunn, etc. In an offseason sign and trade, we’d need to send out the same amount of salary but would lose those expiring deals. Instead we’d have to send out players signed for 2022 or figure out ways to structure the deal to use the value of those players in free agency as sign and trade assets in a deal, which might be complicated. For example, if Jason Richardson is signing a taxpayer MLE deal next year with an above apron team, there is no way to use that salary in a deal.

A second piece is that a sign and trade hard caps us. That might matter. For example, say our goal is to keep our young players, Smart, and Timelord. Doing that plus adding Beal could push us over the apron next year. If we trade Horford and Dunn during the season for Beal, we can pay whatever both cost next offseason. If we do a sign and trade, we may end up losing one of them in FA because of the hard cap.

Cellar-Door · Aug 5, 2021

pjheff said:
Yeah, that wasn’t the point. I never denied that it would be more advantageous to trade for a star in-season rather than renounce away the roster to create cap space next summer. What I do deny is your initial claim that it’s essentially Beal or bust due to the weak F.A. class next summer. They could just as easily trade a disgruntled star into that freed cap space as they could sign-and-trade or sign Beal into it. Stevens is not limited to the available free agents to land his third pillar.

Sure, but.... you need a disgruntled star, who wants to come to Boston, wants to do so in the FA period, whose team wants to accept salary relief and draft picks only. That list is gonna be short, somewhere between 0 and 1 in most cases (last year there was 1 disgruntled star at that time and he forced his way to BKN eventually, this year there were none) you can't plan on that is the point. In fact unless you have very strong word from Beal you shouldn't plan on him either. Really signing Beal is a fairly bad move that's better than the really bad move of locking in the current group. They should be aggressively pursuing star deals now even if it means telling Tatum that you're not interested in bringing his buddy to BOS (though if Beal wants to be in BOS he should be smart enough to realize that he needs to force his way here by the deadline to give himself the best chance of winning a title with Tatum.

pjheff · Aug 5, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
That list is gonna be short, somewhere between 0 and 1 in most cases (last year there was 1 disgruntled star at that time and he forced his way to BKN eventually, this year there were none) you can't plan on that is the point.

I don’t think anyone is planning on that. The plan is to add a third star by whatever means necessary. A trade before the deadline would be most expedient, and it’s possible that the threat of cap space and a potential free agent signing will provide leverage. But signing a player next summer is certainly an option, as is trading for a disgruntled star into freed space. I don’t think anyone is putting all of his or her eggs into the FA basket or Beal, though they have a narrative coherence. I think we’d all trade (Brad included) for Dame tomorrow if it could be accomplished without sacrificing Brown.

Jimbodandy · Aug 5, 2021

pjheff said:
I don’t think anyone is planning on that. The plan is to add a third star by whatever means necessary. A trade before the deadline would be most expedient, and it’s possible that the threat of cap space and a potential free agent signing will provide leverage. But signing a player next summer is certainly an option, as is trading for a disgruntled star into freed space. I don’t think anyone is putting all of his or her eggs into the FA basket or Beal, though they have a narrative coherence. I think we’d all trade (Brad included) for Dame tomorrow if it could be accomplished without sacrificing Brown.

You're right that nobody knows what next offseason will look like. There are no obvious choices of other guys who might be shooting their way out of town or overextended orgs or whatnot. We'll see.

They have put most of their eggs in the Beal basket and also hired out a billboard in Times Square and taken out Facebook ads that this is their plan. Doesn't mean that they're locked into it, but it is sure as fuck their plan.

Cellar-Door · Aug 5, 2021

pjheff said:
I don’t think anyone is planning on that. The plan is to add a third star by whatever means necessary. A trade before the deadline would be most expedient, and it’s possible that the threat of cap space and a potential free agent signing will provide leverage. But signing a player next summer is certainly an option, as is trading for a disgruntled star into freed space. I don’t think anyone is putting all of his or her eggs into the FA basket or Beal, though they have a narrative coherence. I think we’d all trade (Brad included) for Dame tomorrow if it could be accomplished without sacrificing Brown.

I get it, the point is that the Celtics are essentially on a 1 year clock now though. Until the deadline they have a lot of ways to make a trade and still have a really strong team.
After the deadline they have ways to add a star at the expense of some or all of their depth, (some via a complex S&T deal, all via signing Beal or LaVine) but that's the window. The Celtics are likely locked into whatever they come out of next year's FA period with. Or at the very least it becomes far less likely they can make a deal once they make decision on Smart and TL.

Not all the eggs are in the Beal basket, but almost all the eggs are in the basket of deal within the next year, and given the abnormally low options in one of the avenues to acquire a player, and the number of stars who have changed teams and gotten locked up in the last 2 years.... it's a bad time to be in that situation.

pjheff · Aug 5, 2021

Jimbodandy said:
They have put most of their eggs in the Beal basket and also hired out a billboard in Times Square and taken out Facebook ads that this is their plan. Doesn't mean that they're locked into it, but it is sure as fuck their plan.

That notion has a lot of narrative coherence. Beal is a possible free agent next offseason, potentially unhappy where he is, and connected to our best player. But I think it is far from a stated goal or an all-in gambit. The clearest articulation of the plan came from Stevens’ comments after the Kemba trade:

“We felt that one of the things that we wanted was the ability to be unencumbered moving forward, and to have a road ahead,” explained Stevens.

“We had to look at (the Walker trade) with the idea of moving that first-round pick this year gave us the opportunity to look at that road ahead with a few more options from a financial flexibility standpoint,” Stevens explained.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/nba-boston-celtics-stevens-presser-walker-trade/

pjheff · Aug 5, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
Not all the eggs are in the Beal basket, but almost all the eggs are in the basket of deal within the next year, and given the abnormally low options in one of the avenues to acquire a player, and the number of stars who have changed teams and gotten locked up in the last 2 years.... it's a bad time to be in that situation.

While I agree that sooner is better, I don’t believe that it has to happen within the next year. As I said about Evan Fournier, I wouldn’t pass on the opportunity to add a star talent for the privilege of giving him a four-year deal, and I feel the same about Smart and Williams. I think that both could be surrounding players for a championship team, but this team needs to build out its core first.

Cellar-Door · Aug 5, 2021

pjheff said:
While I agree that sooner is better, I don’t believe that it has to happen within the next year. As I said about Evan Fournier, I wouldn’t pass on the opportunity to add a star talent for the privilege of giving him a four-year deal, and I feel the same about Smart and Williams. I think that both could be surrounding players for a championship team, but this team needs to build out its core first.

I'm not sure what you mean here. If the Celtics don't make a trade you'd let Smart and Williams walk to preserve cap space and go into the 2nd to last year on Brown's deal with a worse roster than this season?

The Celtics are on a clock, and next offseason is pretty much when it all strikes. They made all their moves with that intention, they put themselves on that clock.

People are treating the window like it's much longer than it is, if the Celtics don't have something in place by this time next season you have to seriously consider the possibility that one or both of Brown/Tatum will be exploring their option (Brown in the key 2nd to last year, Tatum will have 3 years, but he'll be looking). NBA contracts aren't long enough to waste 3 years of them. 2022-23 is the make or break for BOS one way or another.

pjheff · Aug 5, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
I'm not sure what you mean here. If the Celtics don't make a trade you'd let Smart and Williams walk to preserve cap space and go into the 2nd to last year on Brown's deal with a worse roster than this season?

You are sure what I mean here. While you frame it in the most extreme terms, I would not commit to any role player in a way that would interfere with my ability to acquire a third pillar.

HomeRunBaker · Aug 6, 2021

Have we heard any Dennis Schroeder destination rumors? He’s your prototypical “guy who gets lost in FA and thrives on a 1-yr make good deal.”

cheech13 · Aug 6, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Have we heard any Dennis Schroeder destination rumors? He’s your prototypical “guy who gets lost in FA and thrives on a 1-yr make good deal.”

If that happens, where does he fall in the Pantheon of guys who screwed up by not taking the deal that was offered mid season? I remember Nerlens Noel turning down $70mm and ending up on something close to the minimum. Sprewell had the $30mm and was out of the league next year. Any others I’m forgetting?

JM3 · Aug 6, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Have we heard any Dennis Schroeder destination rumors? He’s your prototypical “guy who gets lost in FA and thrives on a 1-yr make good deal.”

He's had "conversations" with the Celtics.

Thunder/Pelicans?

Mavs have no interest per Stein.

Maybe s+t with the Kings for Hield if they're swapping Fox for Simmons? Idk.

RedOctober3829 · Aug 6, 2021

View: https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/1423705664380145669

HomeRunBaker · Aug 6, 2021

RedOctober3829 said:
View: https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/1423705664380145669

Boom!! I don’t know Jake Fischer but this addresses our hole at the PG position this year and are almost assured of a contract year effort out of Schroeder. This would be an ideal short term signing and one that could even evolve into a permanent one which would be a nice pairing with Beal. Please make this happen!!

RorschachsMask · Aug 6, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Boom!! I don’t know Jake Fischer but this addresses our hole at the PG position this year and are almost assured of a contract year effort out of Schroeder. This would be an ideal short term signing and one that could even evolve into a permanent one which would be a nice pairing with Beal. Please make this happen!!

Jake Fischer is about as close to Shams/Woj level as it gets, he has been first on almost everything this offseason.

RedOctober3829 · Aug 6, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Boom!! I don’t know Jake Fischer but this addresses our hole at the PG position this year and are almost assured of a contract year effort out of Schroeder. This would be an ideal short term signing and one that could even evolve into a permanent one which would be a nice pairing with Beal. Please make this happen!!

StoolGreenie opines that an option with DS is to bring him off the bench and let Nesmith start with the Jays due to 3 pt shooting.

Cellar-Door · Aug 6, 2021

So would Schroeder be signing for the MLE? Because I don't see a S&T that makes sense.

Schroeder isn't good, but he's better than Pritchard and Dunn, so there's that. Assume that even though Smart is better the goal is to move Smart back to 6th man? Or would Schroeder come off the bench? (Can't see that given he's a guy who thought he was getting $100M and is now going for a prove-it deal).

JM3 · Aug 6, 2021

Schröder would be fun for a year. Idk about long-term, though.

HomeRunBaker · Aug 6, 2021

RedOctober3829 said:
StoolGreenie opines that an option with DS is to bring him off the bench and let Nesmith start with the Jays due to 3 pt shooting.

Jesus lol. Pains me that some people have platforms.

bsj · Aug 6, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
So would Schroeder be signing for the MLE? Because I don't see a S&T that makes sense.

Schroeder isn't good, but he's better than Pritchard and Dunn, so there's that. Assume that even though Smart is better the goal is to move Smart back to 6th man? Or would Schroeder come off the bench? (Can't see that given he's a guy who thought he was getting $100M and is now going for a prove-it deal).

Can you elaborate? I dont watch enough non-Celtics NBA to know him very well as a player, but statistically, he seems like a fairly good all around player.

radsoxfan · Aug 6, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Jesus lol. Pains me that some people have platforms.

I feel bad for Greenie sometimes. He’s obviously a big Celtics fan and has been with Barstool a long time, but he is just so clueless with free agency and most basketball stuff in general.

I don’t like Schroeder much but on a 1 year deal hard to dislike too much, he’s decent enough, still only 27.

Plus he probably hates the Lakers so he gets bonus points there.

HomeRunBaker · Aug 6, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
So would Schroeder be signing for the MLE? Because I don't see a S&T that makes sense.

Schroeder isn't good, but he's better than Pritchard and Dunn, so there's that. Assume that even though Smart is better the goal is to move Smart back to 6th man? Or would Schroeder come off the bench? (Can't see that given he's a guy who thought he was getting $100M and is now going for a prove-it deal).

Schroeder was real good in OKC two years ago albeit in a different role than he’d be in here. He was inconsistent last year but he needs to be aggressive to be at his best and role players around LeBron/AD aren’t designed to play his style.

I wouldn’t know how to compare him to Smart as they are two completely different players with two different roles.

Cellar-Door · Aug 6, 2021

bsj said:
Can you elaborate? I dont watch enough non-Celtics NBA to know him very well as a player, but statistically, he seems like a fairly good all around player.

He's not bad either, he's just not a guy who is a clear upgrade to Smart or a guy I'd want to give $15M or a long term deal to. He's basically to me a league average 6th man for a good team, an average PG on a bad one.
Schroeder would make this team better if you could just add him, if you have to trade Smart I don't think he does, and certainly he's not a guy who fits the mold of "this is the 3rd piece to build around".

radsoxfan · Aug 6, 2021

bsj said:
Can you elaborate? I dont watch enough non-Celtics NBA to know him very well as a player, but statistically, he seems like a fairly good all around player.

I’m sure someone else can go more in depth than I will, but most metrics have him has average to slightly below average overall as a player. His D grades worse than I would have thought.

33% on 3 PT last year and for his career. A few years ago there was more hope he was young and ascending, but he kind of flattened out early.

Maybe a better environment will help, who knows. I wouldn’t have high hopes but he’s also a legit NBA rotation player who can either start at PG or be first off the bench. So on a 1 year prove it deal, he would be a solid pickup.

HomeRunBaker · Aug 6, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
He's not bad either, he's just not a guy who is a clear upgrade to Smart or a guy I'd want to give $15M or a long term deal to.
Schroeder would make this team better if you could just add him, if you have to trade Smart I don't think he does, and certainly he's not a guy who fits the mold of "this is the 3rd piece to build around".

People still stuck to the “Smart can be our starting PG” but that is a desperation lack of options move that you are quickly looking to repair. He lacks the skill set to play this position day in and day out full time and always has which we’d discussed as nauseum. Nobody is acquiring Smart to be their PG and neither are we.

PedroKsBambino · Aug 6, 2021

Yeah, Schroeder isn't really replacing Smart, his 25 or whatever minutes roughly replace 10 PP minutes, 5 Richardson, 5 Nesmith/Langford, and maybe 5 for Smart.

chilidawg · Aug 6, 2021

Schroeder mostly came off the bench in OKC iirc, seems like that'd be a good fit for him as he could be more aggressive when at least one of the Jay's is on the bench.

TL, JT, JB, Rich, Smart with Schroeder/Horford/Nesmith/Langford is a pretty good 9, and you've still got Kanter and Dunn as deeper depth.

JakeRae · Aug 6, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
People still stuck to the “Smart can be our starting PG” but that is a desperation lack of options move that you are quickly looking to repair. He lacks the skill set to play this position day in and day out full time and always has which we’d discussed as nauseum. Nobody is acquiring Smart to be their PG and neither are we.

What does Smart do worse than Schroder though? They are very similar shooters from both inside and outside the arc and at the line (Schroder is a little better in the latter category). They both rebound at similar rates. Schroder has a much better career assist rate, but has been in the low to mid 20’s the last three years, which is only marginally better than Smart’s low 20’s rate. Both turn the ball over too much, and at similar rates. And Smart is a much better defender. I could probably do a similar comparison with Richardson.

I don’t like Schroder’s game and never have, so I’ll admit bias here. I also just don’t see the fit. We already have 3-4 poor shooting athletic combo guards that play strong defense on the roster. I am not sure what role we have for another.

That said, I’m not opposed to this either since I assume it’ll be a one year deal if it happens and more expiring contracts for guys who aren’t negative value players is a positive on its own. I’m just not sure I understand being enthusiastic at what looks like a move that just creates a log jam in the roster position of guys who do similar things to Smart but overall aren’t as good when the two needs we have are another offensive playmaker (I don’t think Schroder is) and wing depth (Schroder definitely doesn’t help here).

reggiecleveland · Aug 6, 2021

Old guy hot take. Schroeder plays hard with a chip on his shoulder. Big time coach I know who is huge Laker fans wants Lakers to keep him since he worries they are soft. Not sure what he has left at this point, but he competes.

pjheff · Aug 6, 2021

JakeRae said:
I don’t like Schroder’s game and never have, so I’ll admit bias here. I also just don’t see the fit. We already have 3-4 poor shooting athletic combo guards that play strong defense on the roster. I am not sure what role we have for another.

Schroder’s fit is simply that he is a proven rotation player for a squad lacking them. He would allow Smart and Richardson to log more minutes on the wing where there is a dearth of reliable production.

Cellar-Door · Aug 6, 2021

pjheff said:
Schroder’s fit is simply that he is a proven rotation player for a squad lacking them. He would allow Smart and Richardson to log more minutes on the wing where there is a dearth of reliable production.

Schroder for this coming year is a no-brainer. The question is... how? Is he taking a massive paycut to the mini-MLE? If not it's got to be a S&T... who goes out? And then you're talking at least 15M per, maybe 20M, and 3/45 or 3/60 is not something I'm really interested in giving him based on how this team is set up

pjheff · Aug 6, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
Schroder for this coming year is a no-brainer. The question is... how? Is he taking a massive paycut to the mini-MLE? If not it's got to be a S&T... who goes out? And then you're talking at least 15M per, maybe 20M, and 3/45 or 3/60 is not something I'm really interested in giving him based on how this team is set up

Would we be hard capped if we acquired him via sign and trade? If so, then I don’t see Stevens pursuing that option.

Auger34 · Aug 6, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
Schroder for this coming year is a no-brainer. The question is... how? Is he taking a massive paycut to the mini-MLE? If not it's got to be a S&T... who goes out? And then you're talking at least 15M per, maybe 20M, and 3/45 or 3/60 is not something I'm really interested in giving him based on how this team is set up

I thought the Celtics had the full MLE available?

Cellar-Door · Aug 6, 2021

pjheff said:
Would we be hard capped if we acquired him via sign and trade? If so, then I don’t see Stevens pursuing that option.

Yes, we'd be hard capped this year, which probably wouldn't matter that much (just effect what you'd have to send out if you wanted to trade for a guy), plus you have to give him 3 years (you can make 2 and 3 non-guaranteed, but then you need to put up big money because Schroder isn't signing a 3 year deal that you can lock him into).

tbb345 said:
I thought the Celtics had the full MLE available?

Not at the moment. They could probably get to it by dumping more salary, but that would also hard cap them.
Edit- they need to clear like 5-6M, so they'd basically need someone to eat Dunn, and possibly another salary.

HomeRunBaker · Aug 6, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
Schroder for this coming year is a no-brainer. The question is... how? Is he taking a massive paycut to the mini-MLE? If not it's got to be a S&T... who goes out? And then you're talking at least 15M per, maybe 20M, and 3/45 or 3/60 is not something I'm really interested in giving him based on how this team is set up

Yeah my original idea was that Schroeder would be one of those “lost in the shuffle” kinda guys whose options would be limited and we would be a great option as a make good 1-ye deal with so much playing time for him.

He’d otherwise be out of our price range......not as any great shakes just that guys like Doug McDermott make $13m in some instances. What a country!

Euclis20 · Aug 6, 2021

JakeRae said:
What does Smart do worse than Schroder though? They are very similar shooters from both inside and outside the arc and at the line (Schroder is a little better in the latter category). They both rebound at similar rates. Schroder has a much better career assist rate, but has been in the low to mid 20’s the last three years, which is only marginally better than Smart’s low 20’s rate. Both turn the ball over too much, and at similar rates. And Smart is a much better defender. I could probably do a similar comparison with Richardson.

I don’t like Schroder’s game and never have, so I’ll admit bias here. I also just don’t see the fit. We already have 3-4 poor shooting athletic combo guards that play strong defense on the roster. I am not sure what role we have for another.

That said, I’m not opposed to this either since I assume it’ll be a one year deal if it happens and more expiring contracts for guys who aren’t negative value players is a positive on its own. I’m just not sure I understand being enthusiastic at what looks like a move that just creates a log jam in the roster position of guys who do similar things to Smart but overall aren’t as good when the two needs we have are another offensive playmaker (I don’t think Schroder is) and wing depth (Schroder definitely doesn’t help here).

I agree with pretty much all of this and a straight Schroder for Smart swap probably doesn't help (or really hurt too much), but Schroder is a more efficient scorer at a much higher volume. Over the last 5 years (when Smart hit double digits in ppg and Schroder took a big leap forward), Schroder averaged 17.4 ppg on .533 TS while Smart averaged 10.9 ppg on .516 TS. Neither are particularly efficient but Schroder is definitely more so, and with Fournier and Kemba gone we will be hurting for points. Smart may be better in every other way, but we'll need the scoring.

JakeRae · Aug 6, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Yeah my original idea was that Schroeder would be one of those “lost in the shuffle” kinda guys whose options would be limited and we would be a great option as a make good 1-ye deal with so much playing time for him.

He’d otherwise be out of our price range......not as any great shakes just that guys like Doug McDermott make $13m in some instances. What a country!

This is what makes sense for us. Schroder is definitely not worth hurting our long term flexibility for and if we were going to make a commitment that did so there were better options we should’ve pursued harder earlier.

If we’re getting him on an instantly valuable taxpayer MLE level deal, this is a great lemons out of lemonade move. I don’t like Schroder, but as others note, he’s a proven rotation player and we are really shallow there at the 1-4 (we currently have 4-5 guys who fit that description, excluding our 3 proven 5s). He also helps in that any summer or midseason trade is going to involve us sending out multiple players so we need to build some depth so we can potentially both acquire Beal and still have an NBA roster after we do so.

JakeRae · Aug 6, 2021

Euclis20 said:
I agree with pretty much all of this and a straight Schroder for Smart swap probably doesn't help (or really hurt too much), but Schroder is a more efficient scorer at a much higher volume. Over the last 5 years (when Smart hit double digits in ppg and Schroder took a big leap forward), Schroder averaged 17.4 ppg on .533 TS while Smart averaged 10.9 ppg on .516 TS. Neither are particularly efficient but Schroder is definitely more so, and with Fournier and Kemba gone we will be hurting for points. Smart may be better in every other way, but we'll need the scoring.

Smart’s shooting leap from terrible to passably below average happened three years ago, so I don’t think a 5 year comparison makes sense. For the last three seasons, Smart has had a TS% of .568/.518/.539. Schroder has been .508/.575/.543. Schroder is significantly higher usage, and that has some value, especially since we have a major need for even mediocre second unit offense unless Romeo makes a big leap toward his ceiling.

radsoxfan · Aug 6, 2021

Looks like a pretty classic “who is left and doesn’t suck after the money has dried up” type of buy-low move from Brad.

The player and fit are questionable, but as we (and Brad) have learned over the last few seasons, it’s a problem when you have 5 or 6 good players and the rest of the players are terrible and/or too young to be decent yet.

On a basic level, adding an average-ish player on a team friendly short term deal will be a helpful pickup. Might be used more based on injuries, other trades, or be traded himself. But very little downside, assuming this isn’t some sort of longer term sign and trade.

Cellar-Door · Aug 6, 2021

View: https://twitter.com/McDNBA/status/1423732460085407744

Word that the Celtics have offerred Smart a 4 year extension starting at 17M (so somewhere between 68 and 77 total, likely 77)

NomarsFool · Aug 6, 2021

If Schroder can be had a one year deal that doesn't push us into the luxury tax, and if that let's us trade Marcus Smart for some kind of asset that can be used later - I'm all for it. If Schroder requires any assets to acquire, or a multi-year deal - forget about it.

Of course, without him, we have no blonde haired Germans on this year's roster

Lazy vs Crazy · Aug 6, 2021

And that completely torpedoes the max free agent plan for next summer. If they extend him, it makes this entire offseason a mystery. Do everything you can to open max space next year, then blow it here. I'm so confused.

Cellar-Door · Aug 6, 2021

Lazy vs Crazy said:
And that completely torpedoes the max free agent plan for next summer. If they extend him, it makes this entire offseason a mystery. Do everything you can to open max space next year, then blow it here. I'm so confused.

I think it's a recognition that the next FA class is awful, and Smart on that deal will be easy to move.

Edit- not that he was going to actually hit the market for real but KD just agreed to a 4/198 extension

JCizzle · Aug 6, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
View: https://twitter.com/McDNBA/status/1423732460085407744

Word that the Celtics have offerred Smart a 4 year extension starting at 17M (so somewhere between 68 and 77 total, likely 77)

So that would eliminate our ability to free up the cap space for Beal barring a move? I thought that was the justification for basically doing nothing on the market this offseason?

Edit: covered

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