DeTrade of DeBrusk

jcaz

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I have been actively rooting for DeBrusk to get his game together. He’s got tremendous straight line speed, was a point per game player in the WHL and I think we’d all like to see some success from that 2015 draft.

Sorry but not surprised to see this outcome.
 

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The problem with Strome is that he doesn’t even have ONE good season to look for hope in. DeBrusk at least has the one year of 27 goals scored.

Personally, if getting rid of DeBrusk is inevitable - I don't have faith in this coaching staff or this FO to evaluate a talent in a similar situation that they can develop/fix.

I'd rather take a pick or a prospect with hope they turn into something than them trying to fix something that's broken.
 

LogansDad

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Man, this kind of sucks. He's a player who, when he's at his best, is a ton of fun to watch play. Sadly, Bruce has only been able to get the "best" out of him sparingly, so this seems like a foregone conclusion.
 

burstnbloom

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This is frustrating. Debrusk has a every right to ask for this. He owns his shitty play last season but he hasn’t been a problem this year and Bruce benches him because he is out of moves. I don’t think they would have qualified Jake at 4.4 anyway, but Bruce didn’t have to hasten the departure.
 

locknload

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It's going to be hugely frustrating if he goes somewhere else and figures out how to put his game together consistently. He's pretty dynamic when he is playing to his potential, he just doesn't seem to do that enough here.
 

Jordu

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Cassidy has been clear on what DeBrusk could and should be doing but isn’t: “I’d like to see him impact the game with his footspeed every night, in some way, shape or form — whether it’s forecheck, attacking the net, penalty kill, whatever the case may be. That’s where we’re at, and we’re seeing that drop-off again. So it’s a reminder, ‘Hey, bring us the effort — whether production happens — but we need that.’”

DeBrusk has rarely been interested in playing defense. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start to score again on a team that requires less defensive responsibility from its forwards.

I’m guessing the Bruins trade him out of the conference.
 

Salem's Lot

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This organization has to seriously look at the way that they develop young talent, and integrate them onto the roster. Other than guys like Pastrnak & McAvoy, who jumped right into the NHL lineup, none of their top picks have developed into players of any significant value after playing in Providence.
 

The Napkin

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Cassidy has been clear on what DeBrusk could and should be doing but isn’t: “I’d like to see him impact the game with his footspeed every night, in some way, shape or form — whether it’s forecheck, attacking the net, penalty kill, whatever the case may be. That’s where we’re at, and we’re seeing that drop-off again. So it’s a reminder, ‘Hey, bring us the effort — whether production happens — but we need that.’”

DeBrusk has rarely been interested in playing defense. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start to score again on a team that requires less defensive responsibility from its forwards.

I’m guessing the Bruins trade him out of the conference.
Cassidy is full of it. He's been absolutely fine the last couple of games while getting no help on his line and he's benched anyway.
 

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The problem with Strome is that he doesn’t even have ONE good season to look for hope in. DeBrusk at least has the one year of 27 goals scored.

Personally, if getting rid of DeBrusk is inevitable - I don't have faith in this coaching staff or this FO to evaluate a talent in a similar situation that they can develop/fix.

I'd rather take a pick or a prospect with hope they turn into something than them trying to fix something that's broken.
That's not quite true. Strome was 20/37/57 in 78 games in 18-19 and 12/26/38 in 58 games in 19-20. He's been on the same decline as Jake since then.
 

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That's not quite true. Strome was 20/37/57 in 78 games in 18-19 and 12/26/38 in 58 games in 19-20. He's been on the same decline as Jake since then.
I guess I mean in terms of what the Bruins would need from a trade.

Getting another guy who lacks finish but may be good setting up other players who lack finish isn’t going to help this team. The Debrusk who scored 27 goals would help this team.
 

The Napkin

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Because then they'd need to look at the GM. Or the President. Better to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. And the owner sure as fuck doesn't care as long as the "sell out" streak continues and they get the gates from a playoff round or 2.
 

kenneycb

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Or why are they not looking at the coach, and wondering why guys are tuning him out.
What evidence is there of multiple guys tuning him out outside of DeBrusk? I haven't liked DeBrusk for a few seasons so happy to see him gone though don't love the asset management side of the equation.
 

burstnbloom

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What evidence is there of multiple guys tuning him out outside of DeBrusk? I haven't liked DeBrusk for a few seasons so happy to see him gone though don't love the asset management side of the equation.
i like Cassidy and think he’s a pretty smart coach but he’s horrible at developing talent at the nhl level. It’s hard to say if that’s on him because the players he’s buried haven’t really amounted to much elsewhere but chicken/egg etc.

But it’s pretty clear that either he’s bad at development or Sweeney has only given him 3 good young players in the last 5 years and they were all nhl ready when they showed up.
 

kenneycb

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I don't have any gripes with that take though, as you point out, that's a shared quibble with the front office.

Happy to have missed it but I haven't heard of anyone tuning him out outside of DeBrusk, whose had a problem with Cassidy (and vice versa) at least dating to last year.
 

TFP

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Honestly it’s not Cassidy’s job to develop talent at the NHL level. It’s to win hockey games right now. If the talent he’s given isn’t capable of helping him do rhat, it’s on the GM/organization. I think it’s pretty clear that if the talent is NHL ready, he’ll play them. I do have quibble on the margins with how he plays some guys (namely Studnicka), but he also has stuck with younger guys until they play themselves out of the lineup. Zboril is a good example of that right now, Clifton a couple years ago, etc.

It’s not like Ryan Donato or Peter Cehlarik or whomever have gone on to productive careers.
 

GB5

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what will be an interesting follow, is I assumed Debrusk would just be a healthy scratch until the move him. However with Marchie suspended for 3 games, I think Butch needs to put Debrusk in. then again he may be dead and buried to Butch and he still sits. Would be quite a story if he got back in and got hot.
 

cshea

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what will be an interesting follow, is I assumed Debrusk would just be a healthy scratch until the move him. However with Marchie suspended for 3 games, I think Butch needs to put Debrusk in. then again he may be dead and buried to Butch and he still sits. Would be quite a story if he got back in and got hot.
Unless they call someone up, or play 11F 7D (Clifton), DeBrusk has to play tonight. They are currently carrying 14F on the roster. Blidh is injured and won't play and Marchand is suspended. Haula will go back in, and presumably DeBrusk as well. If DeBrusk is held out then I think he's played his last game for the Bruins and a trade is very close.

I am a little suprised at how quickly this became public. Usually the trade requests are kept hush hush for a few weeks until the player gets antsy and goes public to put pressure on the team to act.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I really like DeBrusk, so this sucks, but it's also probably best for all involved.

I slightly disagree. I think Cassidy has some responsibility here to continue to develop guys and put them in the right position to succeed and continue to develop. If the NHL coach wasn't concerned with developing talent, you'd lose a lot. He's done an excellent job developing some guys (McAvoy) and terrible with others (DeBrusk, Studnicka).
 

Eddie Jurak

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Honestly it’s not Cassidy’s job to develop talent at the NHL level. It’s to win hockey games right now. If the talent he’s given isn’t capable of helping him do rhat, it’s on the GM/organization. I think it’s pretty clear that if the talent is NHL ready, he’ll play them. I do have quibble on the margins with how he plays some guys (namely Studnicka), but he also has stuck with younger guys until they play themselves out of the lineup. Zboril is a good example of that right now, Clifton a couple years ago, etc.

It’s not like Ryan Donato or Peter Cehlarik or whomever have gone on to productive careers.
This is too extreme a view. A coach who can develop talent will, over the long haul, win more games than one who cannot. A coach who ONLY wants to develop talent is going to be a problem on any team that doesn't already suck.

Looking back as past guys thought to have talent that needed developing:
  • Anders Bjork: hasn't done anything much since he left Boston, though the sample is small (37 games, 6 goals, 10 points).
  • Danton Heinen: ditto. His best year was in Boston, under Cassidy. Since he left, not much output (74 games, 16 goals, 27 points)
  • Ryan Donato: ditto. With Boston, 11 goals, 18 points in 46 games. After leaving, 153 games, 26 goals, 66 points. A tick better, maybe, but nothing to lose sleep over.
  • Frank Vatrano: maybe onto something here. 20 goals, 31 points in 108 games with Boston. 69 goals, 115 points in 243 games with Florida. Maybe onto something with this one, though Vatrano was a strange case - incredible shot but very limited playing experience pre-NHL due to inuries.
Bottom line, there isn't a track record of prospects failing under Cassidy and going on to emerge elsewhere. If he cannot develop talent, the case for that isn't obvious.
 
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cshea

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The common refrain from Cassidy, andJulien before him who faced similar criticism, is that it's not his job to develop players at the NHL level. He's being paid to win games. Throughout his coaching tenure the Bruins have been a playoff team and even an elite Cup contender. That's not a place where you can plop a younjg player in and let them work things out for themselves.

Also, while discussing Cassidy's player development, it's important to remember he was in Providence from 2008-2017 as assistant coach and then head coach. He's had a hand in the development of players like Marchand, Pastrnak, Grzelyck and a host of others who came up through Providence during his tenure. Hell, Jake would fit into that boat too.
 

burstnbloom

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Honestly it’s not Cassidy’s job to develop talent at the NHL level. It’s to win hockey games right now. If the talent he’s given isn’t capable of helping him do rhat, it’s on the GM/organization. I think it’s pretty clear that if the talent is NHL ready, he’ll play them. I do have quibble on the margins with how he plays some guys (namely Studnicka), but he also has stuck with younger guys until they play themselves out of the lineup. Zboril is a good example of that right now, Clifton a couple years ago, etc.

It’s not like Ryan Donato or Peter Cehlarik or whomever have gone on to productive careers.
I disagree with this though. Player development does land on the head coach because it leads to winning and long term success. There is an NHL learning curve. It would be great it every player stepped on the ice and was Charlie McAvoy but there's a reason guys like him and Pasta make the big bucks. It's absolutely imperative to long term success that the middle 6 has some productive mid level ELC players on it and its the head coaches job to integrate players into the lineup in a way that bears fruit for the team. You can argue that the players just weren't good and that might be true. There aren't a lot of NHL superstars out there that he buried but there are some players that showed promise that he jerked around and could have hampered their long term development.

I look at a guy like Danton Heinen. He was extremely productive as a rooking in 17/18- he had 37 ES points. All his underlying numbers were fantastic. The next year, 24 ES points (less time with Marchand and Bergeron will do that) but his underlying stats are still awesome. 58% xG. But he starts jerking Heinen around. Moving him all over the lineup. The year Heinen was traded I don't think he played on the same line more than 2 or 3 games at a time. He put him upstairs. he benched Heinen in game. Guess what - 58% xG again. Similar deployment, worse teammates. He still had 22 ES points. He's a pretty good player who was responsible defensively and got strong results. He's a good NHL wing with the versatility to play all three forward positions. His ice time dropped every year. His lines were constantly moved around and he was put upstairs (sometimes inexplicably). Some of the responsibility there does lie with Heinen, of course, but its hard to argue this wasn't a Bruce thing. All his underlying numbers look strong all three years. Only the deployment by the coaching staff changed. It's bizarre.

Cassidy is a good coach, but this is a weakness for him. He's doing it again with Studnicka. He can't help but tinker and once he gets in his head someone isn't ready, he uses them to tinker first and it messes them up. It's always frustrated me but I'm especially frustrated about this Debrusk situation. I think they messed with him so badly last year and this year he came in looking much better and his numbers have been better across the board despite being stapled to the corpse of Erik Haula. The situation reads like Jake wanted out and promised to come in and work hard and he's done that. He made a mistake against the rangers and Bruce puts him upstairs. It was a stupid move at the time and this is the result. I hate it.
 

The Napkin

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Exactly

Cassidy: benches DeBrusk
DeBrusk: what do you want from me?
Cassidy: x, y, z
DeBrusk: does x, y, z
Cassidy: benches DeBrusk
DeBrusk: Fuck this
 

catomatic

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If a guy’s default mode is not to move their feet unless they are feeling it, or whatever, there’s only so much a coach can do with that player. I may be in the minority but the few times I watched a full game this year, Jake’s old bad habits have been plenty apparent. I saw no corner turned by him this year whatsoever. His skill set is dependent on his compete level. Several years in, the player still hasn’t heard the message. That’s on him. Au revoir.

Edit; typo
 

TFP

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For what it's worth, I think the benching Sunday night came after the trade request, not before.

I would quibble that DeBrusk "did x,y,z" as well. Horrific effort on that Panarin goal, and the "x" in "x,y,z" is almost certainly "give some effort without the puck".

I think there's some shared blame here, but the idea that JDB is a top 6 winger just being held back by mean old Butch is just...not true.
 

TFP

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Player development does land on the head coach because it leads to winning and long term success. There is an NHL learning curve. It would be great it every player stepped on the ice and was Charlie McAvoy but there's a reason guys like him and Pasta make the big bucks.
Yeah we just disagree here. It's not Cassidy's job to win games 4 years from now. It's to win them now. He's not coaching the Coyotes, if he misses the playoffs he's likely out of a job.

You can certainly make an argument that Studnicka gives them a better chance of winning games this year than say Haula, that's a reasonable debate. But implying he needs to play Studnicka to develop him for the benefit of the 2024 Bruins is just laughable. He's played plenty of young guys if they give them the best chance to win (beyond the obvious). Carlo, Grz, Clifton, Lauzon, and now Zboril have all gotten very fair shots to stick on D. Some have, some haven't, some are still TBD. On forward, he's played Kuhlman in playoff SCF games and gotten some production value out of a guy who is a borderline NHLer. But he's not gonna trot out the Providence B's as a bottom 6 to start the season if management signs guys like Nosek, Foligno, and Haula and demands a deep playoff run. It's delusional to think otherwise.

Taking a guy like Heinen as an example on the flip side - Cassidy took a low ceiling 4th round pick, got 2+ productive seasons for him and boosted his value, then the front office traded him away and he's done little since. Maybe Cassidy squeezed every drop of production out of him possible, instead of assuming he was by default a top 6 NHLer that was ruined by not playing with 2 HOFers every night.

I blame like 90% of the lack of development on the organization itself (scouting, drafting, development) and like 10% tops on Cassidy.
 
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FL4WL3SS

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For what it's worth, I think the benching Sunday night came after the trade request, not before.

I would quibble that DeBrusk "did x,y,z" as well. Horrific effort on that Panarin goal, and the "x" in "x,y,z" is almost certainly "give some effort without the puck".

I think there's some shared blame here, but the idea that JDB is a top 6 winger just being held back by mean old Butch is just...not true.
Who said that? I also agree he's not, but I'm not seeing that argument here.
 

cshea

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Seems like there's decent interest in Jake. I'm sure mostly low ball offers since the Bruins aren't in a position of strenght.

We'll see what happens. This is unchartered waters for Sweeney. He basically only trades at deadlines and the trades are usually futures for NHL roster help. Not sure which way they go here. Grab futures and try to wheel them elsewhere for help or try to get NHL help back in the DeBrusk deal. If they go the futures route, it's a blow to the current team until they bring in the external help. We know the depth is bad and they despearately need help. One of the possible solutions to the depth issues was DeBrusk being productive. That hasn't happened and he'll be entirely gone if they trade him for futures.

View: https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/1465714606345650177?s=20
 

The Napkin

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I would argue that benching DeBrusk (for example) after every little thing he does wrong hurts the team this year as much as it does the 2024 team. I'd rather have him out there with his potential upside playing his game and not worried about making the occasional error that leads to a goal and a benching. Especially over Haula (for example) and his 1G 2A -3 season and who was directly involved in giving up 2 (3?) goals the other night and yet keeps getting tossed out there.
But once a guy is in Bruce's dog house he's done.

And yes, that's an indictment on Sweeney/Neely as well
 

veritas

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Given that most NHLers peak around 22, I’m not blaming Cassidy or the org for a lot of the “failures” mentioned here. And certainly not blaming the individual players for not having Marchand like improvements through their 20’s. That’s the exception not the rule.

Jake specifically had some crazy expectations thrown on top of him by being drafted way too high and then having a very lucky shooting season early in his career. He’s a solid middle six winger and that’s all he was ever going to be. That’s pretty good, fans and the org need to just be happy with that.

And that is one thing I will criticize the org/coaches for — unless there’s something more serious going on behind the scenes with him personally — like the napkin said, there’s no reason for the benchings and scratches for garbage players because he isn’t a “gritty” enough player or whatever. Especially at this point in his career, he is 25 and is what he is.
 

cshea

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Sweeney says he's known DeBrusk wanted a trade for a while now. Also, nothing set on what he wants in return. He just wants to evaluate and find the best deal.

View: https://twitter.com/_TyAnderson/status/1465724248903897089?s=20


Also, no surprise, but Jake is in the lineup tonight. They are basically forced to play him. Blidh and Marchand are out and Providence is on lockdown due to Covid so they can't call anyone up.
 

burstnbloom

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Yeah we just disagree here. It's not Cassidy's job to win games 4 years from now. It's to win them now. He's not coaching the Coyotes, if he misses the playoffs he's likely out of a job.

You can certainly make an argument that Studnicka gives them a better chance of winning games this year than say Haula, that's a reasonable debate. But implying he needs to play Studnicka to develop him for the benefit of the 2024 Bruins is just laughable. He's played plenty of young guys if they give them the best chance to win (beyond the obvious). Carlo, Grz, Clifton, Lauzon, and now Zboril have all gotten very fair shots to stick on D. Some have, some haven't, some are still TBD. On forward, he's played Kuhlman in playoff SCF games and gotten some production value out of a guy who is a borderline NHLer. But he's not gonna trot out the Providence B's as a bottom 6 to start the season if management signs guys like Nosek, Foligno, and Haula and demands a deep playoff run. It's delusional to think otherwise.

Taking a guy like Heinen as an example on the flip side - Cassidy took a low ceiling 4th round pick, got 2+ productive seasons for him and boosted his value, then the front office traded him away and he's done little since. Maybe Cassidy squeezed every drop of production out of him possible, instead of assuming he was by default a top 6 NHLer that was ruined by not playing with 2 HOFers every night.

I blame like 90% of the lack of development on the organization itself (scouting, drafting, development) and like 10% tops on Cassidy.
I'd agree with your first point if the alternative to playing and developing a young player was detrimental to the team but Cassidy's default is almost always to put in a guy like this:
46872

It is almost always for a significantly worse player who is better defensively but is terrible on the other end of the rink. It's a pattern with this coach and its not about winning its about comfort and his comfort doesn't win games. Good players do. Stud is the same thing. It's objectively better for the team to play him over Haula, but he doesn't because he's less comfortable. It is his responsibility to take a better all around player who happens to be younger and try to work with that players warts for the betterment of the team today and down the road. That's literally his job. He abdicates that with young players to play inferior players because he's not comfortable with it. I don't see how that isn't a failure on his part.

I think your framing of Heinen is absolutely incorrect. He was a late draft pick out of the BCHL who had a growth spurt in his draft year. He was a standout player on a good Denver team for two years scoring 93 points in 82 games there before signing with Boston. He scored 44 points in 64 games in Providence before getting called up to the Bruins where he was immediately productive. He didn't squeeze anything out of Heinen. Heinen was good right away, as he had been in Providence, the NCAA and BCHL before that. His production tanked as Cassidy tinkered with him. My guess is because he wasn't "hard" enough despite all of his underlying numbers staying relatively static. Last year in Anaheim they buried him. He took ozone faceoffs only 44% of the time. This year in pitt, he's being deployed similarly to how he was in Boston, his production is close to .5PPG again at ES and he's doing that while playing 12 min a night ES. Heinen is the perfect example of a good player who was good when he got here, got tinkered with and messed with by Cassidy for no good reason really, who now a year later is playing in a similar role on a similar team and is being productive. It was stupid of Sweeney to trade him but Cassidy did the same thing to Heinen he did to Jake.

I don't want to make it out like I hate Bruce, I don't. I think he's a good coach and mostly does a good job, but it's hard to argue this isn't a failing of his.
 
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RG33

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Some weird takes in here to me.

Whatever the reason, Debrusk just hasn’t been able to consistently contribute to the team the last 4 years. A fresh start feels like the right move at this point. I hope they can get some value for him.
 

cshea

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FWIW, Jake's 5th on the team in points per 60 and goals per 60 among forwards with 200 minutes at 5x5. He's producing more than Taylor Hall at even strength. On the defensive side of the puck, Jake is the 4th best forward in scoring chances against per 60 and 5th best at high danger chances against per 60. He also gets the 4th fewest Ozone starts on the team behind essentially the 4th line. His PDO is a tad low, .979. His overall production is down from his hey-day and even from two years ago before this downward spiral began, but compared to some of the other players he's out there with, he's been between fine and good. You can see why he's frustrated that his mistakes put him in the press box while other playes seem to get more leash.

He also hasn't sniffed a PP this year which impacts his counting numbers and has been decent in limited exposure on the PK.
 

burstnbloom

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FWIW, Jake's 5th on the team in points per 60 and goals per 60 among forwards with 200 minutes at 5x5. He's producing more than Taylor Hall at even strength. On the defensive side of the puck, Jake is the 4th best forward in scoring chances against per 60 and 5th best at high danger chances against per 60. He also gets the 4th fewest Ozone starts on the team behind essentially the 4th line. His PDO is a tad low, .979. His overall production is down from his hey-day and even from two years ago before this downward spiral began, but compared to some of the other players he's out there with, he's been between fine and good. You can see why he's frustrated that his mistakes put him in the press box while other playes seem to get more leash.

He also hasn't sniffed a PP this year which impacts his counting numbers and has been decent in limited exposure on the PK.
This is why its frustrating as a fan.
 

cshea

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Kypreos has the Oilers, Flames, Blues, Canes among the many interested.

View: https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/1465771343614521353?s=20


Jake's got a $3.675 million cap hit, but is being paid $4.85 million in real salary this year. Also, as an RFA his QO number is around $4.4 million after the season and he has arb rights. These factors will all impact the return.

Given the cap around the league, an entirely futures deal seems a bit unlikely. They'll probably have to take some sort of salary back. All 4 teams Kypreos mentioned are in LTIR or capped out.
 

Salem's Lot

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Would Calgary be interested in something around DeBrusk for Nikita Zadorov? He’s a pending UFA that has been linked to the Bruins in past rumors.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Had we included Debrusk in a package, would that have potentially swayed Buffalo in an Eichel trade?
 

cshea

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Would Calgary be interested in something around DeBrusk for Nikita Zadorov? He’s a pending UFA that has been linked to the Bruins in past rumors.
I don't think that really makes sense for the Bruins. Like it or not, they made their LHD bed when they signed Forbort and re-signed Reilly. Those are the guys unless a stud falls into their lap. Zadorov isn't it.

I think we're looking at futures or some sort of comparable forward.