14/15 FTs and 2/3 from 3
I'd like to see Grant faceguard Giannis the entire length of the floor after a made basket. Look to draw push-offs. Tire him out. Try to frustrate him. I imagine Bud is going to ride GA hard with minutes in Game 7.
Celtics vs. Bucks, Round 2 Discussion
- Thread starter tims4wins
- Start date
I'd like to see Grant faceguard Giannis the entire length of the floor after a made basket. Look to draw push-offs. Tire him out. Try to frustrate him. I imagine Bud is going to ride GA hard with minutes in Game 7.
I’m booking Giannis for at least 44 minutes, and playing the entire 2nd half barring foul trouble or a blowout in either direction.14/15 FTs and 2/3 from 3
I'd like to see Grant faceguard Giannis the entire length of the floor after a made basket. Look to draw push-offs. Tire him out. Try to frustrate him. I imagine Bud is going to ride GA hard with minutes in Game 7.
Same may apply to Tatum, fwiw.
Yea the Celtics made the mistake of doubling Giannis too much in Game 1. GA killed them with assists (kick out/step-in 3pt shots). He had 13 assists and 9 of those were made 3s I believe (w/out checking).
Horford & Grant primarily, but everyone has been tasked with guarding Giannis solo. The Bucks/GA are hunting Jaylen Brown, that's the matchup they want and the one the C's want to avoid.
Giannis is going to get 40points, the game plan is to stop the kick-outs to open perimeter shooters and not get put into defensive rotation. Ultimately you'd like to draw charges/fouls on GA and put him on the bench but the NBA isn't having any of that.
And the gameplan to not double is working--the Bucks scored 95 points, even with Giannis dropping 44. That's awful.
Limiting the turnovers to 8 is huge (stopping the Bucks transition game).
Derrick White adds quite a bit of ball security (16/3 AST/TO ratio in the Series)
Live turnovers are huge, freaking Jaylen Brown was lucky he didn't have 6-7 last night. The dude needs to shoot, straight-line drive or move the ball. His handle in traffic is nerve-wracking.
Last edited:
This game looked weird early on - for a while the Celtics were only taking threes and Milwaukee was missed everything from the field but Giannis was hitting his free thrws. At one point, the Celtics had a 9-6 lead that was 3 Celtics threes to 6 Giannis FTs.
After an even first, the Celtics defense locked down in the second quarter, holding Milwaukee to 17 points and expanding their lead to 10 at the half. At times in this quarter, Tatum seemed to be playing at a different level than he had been earlier in the series, but he also seemed to take himself out of his own zone with his incessant complaining about not getting calls. He finished with 18 at the half, and his performace in the was very good, maybe his best of the series to that point.
Third quarter, Tatum had his best quarter of the game to that point (13 points), the Celtics built their lead to 18, and then they let up, allowing Milaukee back into it. With 7:20 left, Brown knowcked down a deep 3 to put the Celtics up 18. Milwaukee answered with a 12-2 run over the next 4 minutes and it felt like the Celtics were about to give up another one. But they closed out the quarter 13-8 to build the lead back to 13. Whoops, actually a 12 point lead because someone, I thik Tatum, had a foot on the 3 point line.
Celtics up 82-70 in the 4th, and after a Brown layup to build the lead to 14 at 11:25, they go ice cold for a 2.5 minute stretch where their only offense is a single Tatum free throw and they allow 11 points (Giannis +1, Connaughton 3, Giannis free throws, Giannis 3) to cut the lead to 4, 85-81. And that is where the magic happens.
The Celtics have a bad offensive set that leads to them needing to inbound with onlt 2 or 3 seconds on the clock. Smart inbounds to Tatum on the right side and he drills a difficult, contested 16 footer - that's his 3rd straight Celtic point counting the earlier free throw. Connaughton scores, Tatum comes back and hits a three, six straight. Celtics get a stop, Tatum hits a 7-footer, for 8 straight. Giannis dunks, Connaughton scores, Tatum drills a three, 11 straight, and Celtics up 8. 3.5 minutes from Giannis' three to cut the lead to 4, Celtics are back up 8.
After a stop and a timeout, Ime draws up a perfecr ATO, with Tatum as a decoy to get Brown a wide open catch and shoot three, which he drills, for an 11 point lead. Smart hits a jumper for 13. With 3:25 to go, Giannis hits a pair of free throws to cut it to 11. Celtics call their "use it or lose it" TO to get Tatum some rest. Then at 3:02 the Bucuks call their "use it or lose it" TO to get Giannis some rest.
At 2:38, Tatum pretty ices it with a drive from the top of the key that shows just how good he had it going. Milaukee has left the lane wide open and Tatum from above the 3 point line at the top of the key, drives past his man and goes up for what is intended as a thunderous dunk. Late arriving help fouls Tatum and stops him from dunking but he is able to lay it in through the contact and hit the free throw. Jrue answers with a three, Tatum misses a three, but White pulls down a huge offensive rebound, Tatum gets fouled, hits his free throws. 13 point lead, under 2 minutes left, Jrue misses another three, and that is basically all she wrote.
One weird little footnote: at 1:24, Bud emptied his bench, and Milwaukee's scrubs, led by Thanasis "My brother is really fucking good" Antetokounmpo, really got after it, pressing the Celtics deep bench, playing like there was a championship at stake. Not much happened with the scoring and the game ended with a 13 point win.
After an even first, the Celtics defense locked down in the second quarter, holding Milwaukee to 17 points and expanding their lead to 10 at the half. At times in this quarter, Tatum seemed to be playing at a different level than he had been earlier in the series, but he also seemed to take himself out of his own zone with his incessant complaining about not getting calls. He finished with 18 at the half, and his performace in the was very good, maybe his best of the series to that point.
Third quarter, Tatum had his best quarter of the game to that point (13 points), the Celtics built their lead to 18, and then they let up, allowing Milaukee back into it. With 7:20 left, Brown knowcked down a deep 3 to put the Celtics up 18. Milwaukee answered with a 12-2 run over the next 4 minutes and it felt like the Celtics were about to give up another one. But they closed out the quarter 13-8 to build the lead back to 13. Whoops, actually a 12 point lead because someone, I thik Tatum, had a foot on the 3 point line.
Celtics up 82-70 in the 4th, and after a Brown layup to build the lead to 14 at 11:25, they go ice cold for a 2.5 minute stretch where their only offense is a single Tatum free throw and they allow 11 points (Giannis +1, Connaughton 3, Giannis free throws, Giannis 3) to cut the lead to 4, 85-81. And that is where the magic happens.
The Celtics have a bad offensive set that leads to them needing to inbound with onlt 2 or 3 seconds on the clock. Smart inbounds to Tatum on the right side and he drills a difficult, contested 16 footer - that's his 3rd straight Celtic point counting the earlier free throw. Connaughton scores, Tatum comes back and hits a three, six straight. Celtics get a stop, Tatum hits a 7-footer, for 8 straight. Giannis dunks, Connaughton scores, Tatum drills a three, 11 straight, and Celtics up 8. 3.5 minutes from Giannis' three to cut the lead to 4, Celtics are back up 8.
After a stop and a timeout, Ime draws up a perfecr ATO, with Tatum as a decoy to get Brown a wide open catch and shoot three, which he drills, for an 11 point lead. Smart hits a jumper for 13. With 3:25 to go, Giannis hits a pair of free throws to cut it to 11. Celtics call their "use it or lose it" TO to get Tatum some rest. Then at 3:02 the Bucuks call their "use it or lose it" TO to get Giannis some rest.
At 2:38, Tatum pretty ices it with a drive from the top of the key that shows just how good he had it going. Milaukee has left the lane wide open and Tatum from above the 3 point line at the top of the key, drives past his man and goes up for what is intended as a thunderous dunk. Late arriving help fouls Tatum and stops him from dunking but he is able to lay it in through the contact and hit the free throw. Jrue answers with a three, Tatum misses a three, but White pulls down a huge offensive rebound, Tatum gets fouled, hits his free throws. 13 point lead, under 2 minutes left, Jrue misses another three, and that is basically all she wrote.
One weird little footnote: at 1:24, Bud emptied his bench, and Milwaukee's scrubs, led by Thanasis "My brother is really fucking good" Antetokounmpo, really got after it, pressing the Celtics deep bench, playing like there was a championship at stake. Not much happened with the scoring and the game ended with a 13 point win.
Last night's game is a perfect example of off. box score misleading impact on winning.
Grant, Horford, White look pretty awful when you consider their POINTZ/shooting BUT all three played a big role on defense (even with Giannis scoring an efficient 44pts)
These are related. Giannis had *only* 3 offensive rebounds. MIL didn;t get very many overall. And the C's had few turnovers.
Those seem to be the key indicators in this series.
There were definitely times when it looked like someone had replaced JB's hands with irregular-shaped rocks, or that he was using an unbalanced Globetrotter trick ball. The ball was just caroming off his "hands" at random angles when he dribbled.
What am I missing? Giannis toes the ball OB how is that off Jaylen as the tweeter says.
As a basketball fan, it's really awesome to be able to root for a team like the Celtics. Ime has them doing so many different things beyond what you typically see an NBA team try to do and it's fascinating to see the chess match unfold. Last night they very clearly had a plan as a team to bait Giannis into offensive fouls, while at the same time keeping their own guys out of foul trouble. Normally you might see a player like Smart do this but we saw White, Williams, Smart and even Pritchard trying to take charges on Giannis. While this didn't always work, the overall team effort did and Giannis picked up five fouls and had to be careful during the 4th quarter.
I can't think of another team that has versatile players to do this (and some other stuff) but also a coach who can get this to happen.
I can't think of another team that has versatile players to do this (and some other stuff) but also a coach who can get this to happen.
The first thing the ball touches out of bounds is Jaylen, not the floor.
Jaylen’s feet have already touched OOB, so he’s OOB. I think was the right call.
Over the course of the series I have gained more respect for Giannis. A lot of the things he does are really, really good. His spin move to a dunk is just incredible. He's obviously a tall guy, but he must also have an incredible standing reach. His defensive rebounding was great last night.
I still think he had a few "throw my body at everyone" plays that resulted in undeserved free throws, and the fact that he made those two 3PAs doesn't mean they were good shots to take. But, he's a really, really good player. For someone who has struggled at the line, he was a machine last night.
It's really weird for me to see Jaylen get hunted on defense - I just don't feel like we ever see that. He didn't do as badly against Giannis last night as he has in some of the other games. I guess the question will be whether to double Giannis if he is NOT up against Horford or Williams.
What I find really, really weird is that there have been a few times when Giannis ended up matched up against Pritchard and he gave up the ball. Really? He can shoot over Pritchard without even leaving the floor.
I still think he had a few "throw my body at everyone" plays that resulted in undeserved free throws, and the fact that he made those two 3PAs doesn't mean they were good shots to take. But, he's a really, really good player. For someone who has struggled at the line, he was a machine last night.
It's really weird for me to see Jaylen get hunted on defense - I just don't feel like we ever see that. He didn't do as badly against Giannis last night as he has in some of the other games. I guess the question will be whether to double Giannis if he is NOT up against Horford or Williams.
What I find really, really weird is that there have been a few times when Giannis ended up matched up against Pritchard and he gave up the ball. Really? He can shoot over Pritchard without even leaving the floor.
I say this with an enormous knock-on-wood given the Game 7 yet to come, but the Celtics have benefitted from the rest of the Bucks supporting cast not playing very well on offense. Holliday has been decent, but has taken a lot of shots out of necessity and is only shooting 35% from the field. Portis is averaging 10 ppg, Lopez 7 ppg and Wes Matthews 6 ppg. Connaughton has been the only one to really step up, averaging 12 ppg and making 14 out of 28 threes.
Grayson Allen, who I kind of figured would have at least one 20+ point game this series based on how much he is playing and the theoretical quality of looks he would get playing with Giannis, is only averaging 5 ppg. Allen really sucks; he can't do anything out there.
Grayson Allen, who I kind of figured would have at least one 20+ point game this series based on how much he is playing and the theoretical quality of looks he would get playing with Giannis, is only averaging 5 ppg. Allen really sucks; he can't do anything out there.
This is the crazy part about matchups that is hard to wrap one’s head around but I’ll give it a shot.
Giannis is lethal when he gets a step/angle on his man on his way to the basket. We’ve seen Horford look helpless many times once this happens to him resulting in a basket, a foul or both. With Pritchard on Giannis he cannot easily beat a small guard off the dribble from the perimeter. He also knows that the second he puts the ball to the floor a double or even a triple are coming to attack his handle and/or be at risk of a charge against a quicker player. Obv if he’s in a better attack position lower on the floor he’d be looking to be more aggressive but far from the basket, despite the optics, that really isn’t the best Giannis matchup and he recognizes this.
Of course this doesn’t mean to purposely match PP up with Giannis as this could be exposed by gameplanning an attack but for a few seconds in a switch it isn’t as devastating as it appears assuming it is 30-feet from the basket.
I’d chalk it up to a players weaknesses being more exposed during the playoffs than during the regular season due to the increased defensive pressure and intensity. Smart has had a couple moments as well this series with his balk handling/PG skills, Theis in one game, etc etc.
Pritchard is still too small for that assignment, but this kind of gets to why Smart can guard Giannis (not shut him down of course, but at least defend him credibly for parts of games). Smart knows what he can and can't do against Giannis and how to, as much as he can, play to his strengths.
I would bet heavily against that. They'll obviously play most, but they both need a couple strategic breaks or they're risking diminishing returns. The Celts can figure out how to survive a couple two minute breaks to avoid a bunch of Tatum front-rimming in the fourth.
Jayson Tatum records a legacy game: 5 takeaways from Celtics vs. Bucks Game 6
I liked this article and particularly this part:
I liked this article and particularly this part:
Giannis is amazing. Last night he was a one man wrecking crew but it was not enough with JT matching and arguably outperforming him. The Celtics got outstanding complimentary play from Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and Derrick White. I would like to see those four on the floor together as much as possible. Giannis is a force but I don't think he can do it alone. His supporting cast is not nearly enough. I think the Celtics will win game seven.
I wonder how close to ready Middleton is, and depending on the risk of re-injury the knee, the Bucks dress him for G7 and try to get some Willis Reed minutes out of him..
Feels like Game 7 is going to be "the Grant Williams game". He's been a much better player at home, notoriously streaky and when he breaks out of a slump, gets white hot. His physicality and defensive versatility alone warrants him being out there a ton (which has been the case all season long) and Milwaukee will give him wide open looks. Feels like he's going to have to be one of the minor heroes for the Cs.
Kinda like "the Kelly Olynyk game".
Kinda like "the Kelly Olynyk game".
I’ll check the tape, but I’m pretty sure Connaughton hasn’t missed any shots this series. Wonder if he’s be interested in coming home this summer.
He travels quite a bit, but is so quick it is tough to see. His second jump is lightning. It looks as though he is back up whie everyone else is still thinking about jumping
I don't like trying to draw too many generalities about G7s, but it feels like one thing we see a lot is role players for the home team entirely waxing their counterparts. A lot of these games seem to open up in the 2nd Q as bench players come in. It'll be interesting to see if the Connaughtons and Grayson Allens are up to the moment.
On the flip side, the "G7 trend" that worries me the most is the tendency for refs to swallow their whistles late in the game. I worry about an environment where the play is to physical that Giannis is the only person able to operate offensively.
Sorry for your loss but it's great to hear that you are taking the two kids. Hopefully the Cs can bring home a win for y'all and make it super memorable!
Yes, generally the stars show up and even each other out so it's the role player(s) that step(s) up that makes a difference. Maybe it'll be the "Derrick White" game.
This stretch was key to the game. As others have noted, it wasn't great offense, but just great late clock shot making by Tatum. The timeout from Ime was well timed, and the ATO play for the JB 3 was perfect.
Think it would have to be next summer unless the Bucks are interested in trading him..
FYI tomorrow is the 5th anniversary of the Kelly Olynyk game
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201705150BOS.html
Windhorst said on SC that it’s most likely not happening. His sources even said he’d miss time in the next round if they won.
I'm wondering why Brook Lopez has stopped shooting 3s. He's been shooting over 4 per game over the past 6 seasons, and has kept it up in the playoffs. This series he's shot 2, 0, 0, 1, 2 and 2. Seems weird to go away from it.
They aren't "going away from it" - the Celtics are just not giving it to them. Lopez 3s are almost entirely coming from Giannis drive and kicks, and the Celtics are playing him straight up without help after game 1, so the drive and kick game isn't really happening for the Bucks. How often has Lopez even had an open look?
Giannis is taking the vast majority of shots and the Bucks have 4 players shooting ~ 40% from 3 in Grayson, Jrue, Portis, Pat C.
With Brook's size he should be down low and looking to feed those other four for 3s
Plus Brook only played 13 regular-season games
The way I see it, pretty much any jump shot taken by the Bucks is a good outcome for the Celts. Allen, Pat C, and Jrue have all hit some, but I'd still rather see them take those shots than watch Giannis barreling down the lane. Of course the best is when Giannis attempts a 3.
The Bucks are at 31.0% from 3 for the series. Which makes their 6 for 6 performance in the 4th quarter of game 5 all the more frustrating. They're at 28.5% in the other 23 quarters combined (which is roughly 2 for every 7). The chances of hitting 6 straight if your true % is 31.0% is 0.09%. It is 0.05% if your true % is 28.5%. Ugh.
The Bucks are at 31.0% from 3 for the series. Which makes their 6 for 6 performance in the 4th quarter of game 5 all the more frustrating. They're at 28.5% in the other 23 quarters combined (which is roughly 2 for every 7). The chances of hitting 6 straight if your true % is 31.0% is 0.09%. It is 0.05% if your true % is 28.5%. Ugh.
Last edited:
As little has Allen has given them, he at least give them the possibility, in theory, of hitting 3-5 3s and making a difference (like he did in game 1). Not sure Carter provides that. But Allen is 2-14 from 3 in games 2-6 so who knows.
I like Carter but its clear that Budenholzer either has trust issues with him or knows that using a 6'1" guard against Boston for any extended time, especially after game two, probably comes with a trip to Cancun. Barring injury or a blowout situation, the Bucks are likely running their eight guys out there on Sunday.
I found this interesting: The first round, the Celts won in four, but the games were close (+1, +7, +6, +4), and the Celts were probably lucky to take four straight. The average margin of victory was 4.5 points. If you somehow ran the player matchups through a random results simulator, I bet most times the Celts would have won in five or six games.
Then in the Bucks series, it's gone six. But if you look at how many points the Celts and Bucks have each won by, the Celtics have had more dominant victories, and the Bucks have won two games by less than five points. If you look at a "net rating" for the series, the Celts have 27 more points than the Bucks, which over 6 games works out to exactly ... 4.5 points again.
So just as the Celts were lucky in the first series, looks like they've been unlucky this time, and if you could feed these matchups through the random results simulator, the Celts probably would usually win in five or six games. Interesting, but of course at the end of the day it doesn't matter: you have to win the games.
Then in the Bucks series, it's gone six. But if you look at how many points the Celts and Bucks have each won by, the Celtics have had more dominant victories, and the Bucks have won two games by less than five points. If you look at a "net rating" for the series, the Celts have 27 more points than the Bucks, which over 6 games works out to exactly ... 4.5 points again.
So just as the Celts were lucky in the first series, looks like they've been unlucky this time, and if you could feed these matchups through the random results simulator, the Celts probably would usually win in five or six games. Interesting, but of course at the end of the day it doesn't matter: you have to win the games.
I’d have to think zero chance. Carter was passed over for George Hill the entire series. If anything these are the minutes he’d take and not Allen’s but even that is unlikely.
Connaughton has a player option that he will certainly decline to become a FA. He’s going to get paid this summer and out of our price range. Not to go Willie McGee here but with Smart, Jaylen and White……where would we play him?
Connaughton is from Boston? Huh. I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned by the announcers.
/sarcasm
I don't think he is a realistic target, but there are plenty of minutes available on this team for a shooter like Connaughton. Any 3 of those 4 can play together at the same time
Also - has Connaughton always had that shot where he doesn't dip at all? He like catches the ball at his eyeballs and just releases right from there. Not sure I have ever seen that before