GW2: Nick Pope

Jimy Hendrix

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Not too far from a debut assist for Richards on that corner, but I think Palace will take the point.
 

Pesky Pole

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2 points in 2 is not ideal. But you could argue they deserve zero after those two performances (one poor and one boneheaded).
 

candylandriots

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I would have snapped your hand off taking this result before the game, but feels mildly disappointing after the Typical Palace(tm) display after going up a man.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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A Red got booked sent off at Anfield - I think that's one of the seven seals breaking open.
 
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OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Liverpool seem a little fractious - very nervous and jittery in attack
I’ve seen this horrific story a million times before and probably Liverpool score 3 in the last 10 minutes but I’m legitimately interested to see if Dias and Nunez can be as clutch as Firmino and Mane were. So many results were dragged out late with that old guard will the new young guns step up as the pressure builds?

Liverpool have created plenty. I’d be really surprised if Palace can hold onto a 1-0 there have been so many of those patented Liverpool diagonals
Diaz needs space to be effective. With Palace effectively playing a drum line defense, he's not getting any space at all. He seemed to be frustrated by the physical nature as well in the first half. This is a game that feels like it needs Thiago or Firming to unlock something special. Neither is available so we'll see who can come to the rescue. Carvalho is the only player available upfront.
On the one hand Klopp ran his best XI into the ground the last few seasons but on the other hand they really were a team in a way that few other clubs are. They integrated Jota well, but subtracting Mane and adding Dias and Nunes is a lot of change. Meanwhile Klopp is trying to mix in newer midfielders where he can (since those guys are all starting to get old), which he has to do. The result is that these guys just don't look like they're shifting through the gears as quickly.

Hardest thing in the world to do, right? is to rebuild and stay at the top at the same time. Heart surgery during a marathon. Especially since Liverpool have enough money to buy big, but not stupid enough money to buy their way out of big mistakes.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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They integrated Diaz in January and he was an immediate boost. Nunez, aside from the brain cramp has played well. Yes, they miss Thiago but his replacement Harvey Elliot was their best player against Palace.

The real issue has been Fabinho who has been dreadful so far. With Phillips in at CB he really needed to get back to form . Henderson was excellent subbing for the plucky Milner.

Overall I thought they played well. Even down to 10 men they dominated.
 

Kliq

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You wouldn't necessarily expect the Dane to teach us all a lesson on shithousery, but Andersen gave us a master class yesterday. The over-reaction to the contact from Nunez, the arrogant stalk-up-and-point and then the incredible, stiff-as-a-board collapse when Nunez made contact with him. He shouldn't be getting death threats, obviously, but it was an incredible piece of art in how to get someone red carded.
 

CPT Neuron

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You wouldn't necessarily expect the Dane to teach us all a lesson on shithousery, but Andersen gave us a master class yesterday. The over-reaction to the contact from Nunez, the arrogant stalk-up-and-point and then the incredible, stiff-as-a-board collapse when Nunez made contact with him. He shouldn't be getting death threats, obviously, but it was an incredible piece of art in how to get someone red carded.
That fall was vintage, Ric Flair-esque level selling a move level performance art there. Nunez was baited and is a total knucklehead for responding, but the response, was a 6 on a 5 point scale.:banana:
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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You wouldn't necessarily expect the Dane to teach us all a lesson on shithousery, but Andersen gave us a master class yesterday. The over-reaction to the contact from Nunez, the arrogant stalk-up-and-point and then the incredible, stiff-as-a-board collapse when Nunez made contact with him. He shouldn't be getting death threats, obviously, but it was an incredible piece of art in how to get someone red carded.
Yup, and he was laying the groundwork from the first minutes of the match.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M97mrC_gs0
 

Kliq

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Yup, and he was laying the groundwork from the first minutes of the match.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M97mrC_gs0
In hindsight it is easy to see this as a notable struggle; but I imagine most of what is in that video is pretty typical CF vs CB clashing; especially when you are a tall, physical CF like Nunez. I did notice at :37 that Nunez seems to attempt to smack Andersen after some contact, and if he connected he definitely would have been sent off.
 

SocrManiac

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My feelings on this kind of play are well known around here.

I fully expected Luis Diaz to be the first and still think he’ll be good for a couple of these during his stay at Anfield. These guys play at a low boil at all times.

This is just what the game is now. If they can’t wrap their arms around time wasting they certainly won’t make any progress on instigation. It’s up to teams to police their players and make the consequences of an outburst as harsh and painful as possible. Nunez should be dealt with forcefully by the league and by Klopp.

Anderson won’t face any sanction though his actions created the situation in the first place. There seems to be an opportunity for an NHL-style instigator rule. I’d love to hear an argument for why Anderson’s actions are acceptable and even within established rules. I see things in that video that, if penalized, may have avoided the final confrontation altogether. Is Nunez really at sole fault?
 

67YAZ

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My feelings on this kind of play are well known around here.

I fully expected Luis Diaz to be the first and still think he’ll be good for a couple of these during his stay at Anfield. These guys play at a low boil at all times.

This is just what the game is now. If they can’t wrap their arms around time wasting they certainly won’t make any progress on instigation. It’s up to teams to police their players and make the consequences of an outburst as harsh and painful as possible. Nunez should be dealt with forcefully by the league and by Klopp.

Anderson won’t face any sanction though his actions created the situation in the first place. There seems to be an opportunity for an NHL-style instigator rule. I’d love to hear an argument for why Anderson’s actions are acceptable and even within established rules. I see things in that video that, if penalized, may have avoided the final confrontation altogether. Is Nunez really at sole fault?
I’m of two minds in this case.

First, Andersen didn’t really do a whole helluva lot. Yeah, he was prodding at Darwin, but nothing inflammatory. Maybe Andersen was saying some really nasty shit? Still.

Second, the ref was letting a ton of physical play slide, especially in the first half. Several of us noted this upthread - things were setting up to get rough because the ref wasn’t regulating things early on. That’s not to absolve Darwin, but to say that the refs need to grab a hold of the match from kick off, even if it means a choppy first 20 minutes of play. It’s almost impossible to reel it back in later.
 

teddykgb

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My feelings on this kind of play are well known around here.

I fully expected Luis Diaz to be the first and still think he’ll be good for a couple of these during his stay at Anfield. These guys play at a low boil at all times.

This is just what the game is now. If they can’t wrap their arms around time wasting they certainly won’t make any progress on instigation. It’s up to teams to police their players and make the consequences of an outburst as harsh and painful as possible. Nunez should be dealt with forcefully by the league and by Klopp.

Anderson won’t face any sanction though his actions created the situation in the first place. There seems to be an opportunity for an NHL-style instigator rule. I’d love to hear an argument for why Anderson’s actions are acceptable and even within established rules. I see things in that video that, if penalized, may have avoided the final confrontation altogether. Is Nunez really at sole fault?
What on earth did you see aside from generic pushing and pulling? That was a video of any normal Cb and striker interaction and Nunez lost his mind because he didn’t get a pen call and decided to play on tilt after that. This is some serious excuse making.
 

SocrManiac

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What on earth did you see aside from generic pushing and pulling? That was a video of any normal Cb and striker interaction and Nunez lost his mind because he didn’t get a pen call and decided to play on tilt after that. This is some serious excuse making.
What the fuck are you talking about with excuse making? I’ve made it pretty clear that I’m all-in on Nunez getting the book thrown at him and then some. He’s a punk and needs to be taken down a notch.

I also want instigation taken out of the game. Period. I find it just as distasteful watching a guy like Anderson coming at a guy, then diving like he got shot.
 

teddykgb

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There’s no instigation there. In the actual incident Anderson goes back to yell at him because Nunez tried to headbutt him once already. If anyone instigated anything it was Nunez. All the rest of that video was complete benign. You’re arguing that Darwin should be punished for the stupidity but that he was only partially at fault. It’s complete nonsense. If THAT video is all it takes to set him off he’d end up in a mental ward after 60 minutes with Rudiger
 

page 2 protege

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To me, that hardly looked like a headbutt, more a player turning around to try and chest bump the other guy. Joachim saw he irked him, encroached as far as he could and made a meal of it, I am not looking for honor in football! Nunez's attempt to headbutt him earlier was way more egregious. Joachim, from what I can tell, didn't do much outside of being a minor pest, he wasn't a bad instigator.. but I would also hesitate to come to such a hard conclusion that Nunez can't handle any type of pressure, that contact (which he'll need to control) certainly wasn't Zidane or Ruben Dias' father's level.
 

DJnVa

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There’s no instigation there. In the actual incident Anderson goes back to yell at him because Nunez tried to headbutt him once already. If anyone instigated anything it was Nunez. All the rest of that video was complete benign. You’re arguing that Darwin should be punished for the stupidity but that he was only partially at fault. It’s complete nonsense. If THAT video is all it takes to set him off he’d end up in a mental ward after 60 minutes with Rudiger
Yeah, I kept waiting for something that seemed different from things you see every week, and most levels of the game.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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I also want instigation taken out of the game. Period.
can it be? Especially the kind of subtle irritation that builds up over the course of 90 minutes? I’m not opposed to the concept but it seems almost impossible to enforce, it’s asking the ref to make yet another call on an area where you can’t draw a bright line.
 

SocrManiac

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can it be? Especially the kind of subtle irritation that builds up over the course of 90 minutes? I’m not opposed to the concept but it seems almost impossible to enforce, it’s asking the ref to make yet another call on an area where you can’t draw a bright line.
I think time wasting is a big part of it, which should be the easiest thing to address. Carding Guaita in the 91st minute after allowing his bullshit for 70 should have been within the supposed focus, yet he was allowed to carry on for ages.

Allowing chippy play early is an easy ticket to an ugly match, especially if it’s swallowing the whistle in addition to losing the cards. I don’t think it would be difficult within the current ruleset to pop balloons early.
 

Dummy Hoy

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There’s no instigation there. In the actual incident Anderson goes back to yell at him because Nunez tried to headbutt him once already. If anyone instigated anything it was Nunez. All the rest of that video was complete benign. You’re arguing that Darwin should be punished for the stupidity but that he was only partially at fault. It’s complete nonsense. If THAT video is all it takes to set him off he’d end up in a mental ward after 60 minutes with Rudiger
Well, he does shove him in the back.

I think all of the things can be true

1) Andersen shithoused Nunez all game to try to get him to respond
2) Nunez lost his cool and deserved the red
3) Andersen completely sold the headbutt to a comical level, leading to overreaction on how bad it was
4) Some fans are complete morons

As a hockey guy I thought the worst part of all of what we saw was Andersen's flop. But I know that's not how football is
 

candylandriots

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can it be? Especially the kind of subtle irritation that builds up over the course of 90 minutes? I’m not opposed to the concept but it seems almost impossible to enforce, it’s asking the ref to make yet another call on an area where you can’t draw a bright line.
If instigation were actually called, Palace would be perpetually playing against 9 men against teams like Watford or Bournemouth (and probably some others) with the constant ration of shit that Zaha has to consume from defenders.

Given their record after opponents receive a red card, I’m not sure that would be a good thing :).
 

Zososoxfan

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I'm not seeing much from Andersen there, but beginning at the 0:38 mark things clearly tick up a notch. And I don't think much can be done about this stuff--it's a contact sport. You'd see something very similar highlighting a 1 on 1 matchup in bball and hockey too. Nunez has essentially 3 seasons of pro football under his belt, one of which occurred in the Spanish Segunda with Almeria, the other 2 with Benfica. The EPL is on another level, and I'll take this as his adjustment/growing pains. Otherwise, he might find himself heading down the same path as another renowned Uruguayan CF hothead who played in Merseyside...
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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You would think that a player for his national side in CONMEBOL would have dealt with shithousery and wind-up merchants before. It's not a white-glove-pinkies-extended game.
 

SocrManiac

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The Athletic has a breakdown on their two meetings. I forgot that they’ve faced each other before. They don’t see much in it, either.

Suarez made Liverpool painful to watch at times. After the Chiellini chomp I’d have needed to take time off LFC had he stayed. I don’t think Klopp is going to tolerate players like that in this side. There’s no doubt in my mind it’s his influence that’s kept Diaz from being the player he was at Porto. Hopefully he can tame Nunez.
 

Zososoxfan

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You would think that a player for his national side in CONMEBOL would have dealt with shithousery and wind-up merchants before. It's not a white-glove-pinkies-extended game.
True, but he only has 11 appearances for La Celeste. Let's not forget he's 22 years old.
 

SocrManiac

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And possibly related, he didn’t get an assignment for Week 3.

That’s about as close to an admission we’ll get from PMGOL that Dean materially fucked up the outcome of a match.
 

DJnVa

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Tuchel gets a 1 game suspension and £35,000 fine, with the game suspension suspended for now.

Conte gets a £15,000 fine.