The Game Goat Thread: Wk. 1 @ Miami
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Yeah, the nature of Mac is that he can't get away with bad throws because he just doesn't have the tools passing or running to just win on talent, he has to win on near perfect execution over and over. His margin for error is much smaller.
I think that was also a nice play by the Miami Defense. That guy moved in close to the line with perfect timing, and hid behind the linebacker. If he's a second too early he gets called out by somebody, or if he's too late the play is developing and anything could have happened.
Edit: Or what Toe Nash said.
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Don't give Bedard any credit, except perhaps that he accurately notes the change in approach.
The attribution of reasons why Bill has changed his approach is speculative at best and asshat clickbaitery at worst on behalf of the football media.
It seems to be the case that Bill has softened his approach, and there's a non-zero chance that Bill has lost his fastball. But one has no correlation with the other. Guy has the best living NFL resume. "Because he doesn't beat up his team publicly" doesn't tell us anything.
Look at how Coach K evolved over the years. The good ones do. Old baseball managers used to physically confront their own players, whereas now the best managers are great communicators and part-time therapists.
If Bill has changed, the burden of proof is on the commentariat to explain why this proves that Bill is slipping, not just to say it.
I mean, I know we all have the torches and pitchforks out but that's also just a very well designed and timed delayed blitz.
Edit: What @Nator said, even better. Credit should be due.
There are bad throws because a player lacks a physical tool. There are also bad throws because a QB is a dumbass. You think the former is worse. Okay.
As I've interviewed one of the Pats' longtime captains the past few months, he's made it clear that BB *has* changed.
Go ahead and show me where I said that. Try responding to what people actually write. It generally helps.
I'd called for a 7-10 season, 1-3 to start the year, and looking around the league, I don't see much that would change that. A few positives:
- The LB corps was much, much faster to the ball on short passes, and finished runs regularly.
- Meyers was very good all day long.
- Dugger remains the best athlete on the defense, and possibly the team.
After that though, the negatives have been mostly discussed in-depth here. I still expect the Pats to beat PIT next week, and then a slide. GB looked really, really bad though, so perhaps 2-2 is a possibility?
- The LB corps was much, much faster to the ball on short passes, and finished runs regularly.
- Meyers was very good all day long.
- Dugger remains the best athlete on the defense, and possibly the team.
After that though, the negatives have been mostly discussed in-depth here. I still expect the Pats to beat PIT next week, and then a slide. GB looked really, really bad though, so perhaps 2-2 is a possibility?
You said, "The concerning throws from Mac are mostly physical limitations." Other guys with better arm strength than Mac make bad throws that are concerning because they're dumb throws.
When you said Mac's throws are concerning because they're physical limitations, I thought, well, that's what you meant.
Awesome. Without asking you to divulge any details, would you say those changes make you more or less likely to agree with the "Bill has lost his fastball" and "Bill is surrounding himself with yes men" arguments?
Oh I buy that. It would be really weird if he hadn't. The players have changed. Society has changed. Bill has aged. Bill has won a ton of Super Bowls. A lot has changed.
I believed Bedard's assessment that Bill had changed too. It's the interpretation of what that means that was suspect.
Not remotely. This isn't the subject of the book but it was interesting to talk about nonetheless. He said that BB has softened his approach over the years. He, for one, likes it (the player) and thinks it's a sign that BB has grown as a person and as a leader. LOVES playing for BB. Absolutely loves it and has the absolute utmost respect for him. Not just for the coach he WAS, but for the coach he IS now.
Bad throws are bad throws. It ultimately doesn't matter if it's physical or mental so, no, I wasn't saying one was worse than the other. I was merely saying that pointing out that great QBs have concerning throws too is kind of, I don't know, pointless to me. It'd be like saying, "hey, Steph Curry has bad shooting nights too" when discussing Derrick White's shooting limitations.
I'm not sure about that, he rushes, slows down, then speeds up again when he sees the ball is snapped. I think the bigger problem was that Henry was looking in at the center for several seconds, right up to the snap. The blitzer started moving after he turned his head, and by the time Henry turned and looked upfield the guy was even with/past him. I'm guessing that was the crowd noise, he couldn't hear Mac and was watching for the snap and the blitzer took advantage of that perfectly.
Oh, totally hear you. I think Mac is good, but you won’t win a game like yesterday - where neither team was dominating but the Pats line play/game plan was erratic - with the regularity you would with a truly exceptional QB.
Thanks for sharing. I will say: this is sort of exactly what I expected.
The thing about where this team is right now is ... I actually am excited to see Bill rebuild this team. Would I have preferred to have kept Brady happy and won 2 or 3 more? Probably. Are we witnessing the next dynasty? Probably not. And I get why other people aren’t as patient.
But seeing one of the greats (the great) strip the thing back and build a new system for a new era is likely the best next outcome and definitely more interesting – and IMO, a better outcome than watching him walk away after 2018, hand the keys to Josh and maybe do this for the Giants or some other franchise. If you believe Bill still has a lot of fire and football innovation left in him, this is what I’d prefer to see.
I disagree. We've seen him in the past try to deflect blame off the players when this seem fragile. I think this was his way of trying to keep the team positive after a shit performance.
Edit: sorry saw this was covered later in the thread
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I totally agree. And I was talking with my adult son about this the other day. We just went through the greatest 20 year stretch in NFL history for any organization. Ever. And there have been three down years in a row since they last won a Super Bowl. And in two of those down years, they won 12 and 10 games, respectively, and made the playoffs. Yes, losing badly in the playoffs but still. MADE the playoffs. Which for many franchises is a dream come true all by itself. And in the one year they didn't make the playoffs, they went 7-9, so even then it's not like they were a 4 win team. Other franchises rebuild and it's a catastrophe for a number of years. This team's rebuild still gives us a competitive team.
Clearly - CLEARLY - they are rebuilding the organization. It will take time. Mac Jones is in his second season.
Here was Josh Allen's stat line his second season: 271-461 (58.8%), 3,089 yds, 20 td, 9 int, 38 sacks, -237 sack yds, 85.3 rating, 510 rush yds, team won 10 games.
That was his SECOND season. Total of 608 touches for a total of 3,362 yds, 29 total TD, 23 turnovers, 10 team wins.
Mac's FIRST season: 593 touches, 3,689 yds, 22 total TD, 20 turnovers, 10 team wins.
Mac isn't, and never will be, Josh Allen, who's got one of the most incredible set of physical tools for a QB that I've seen in a long time. But Josh Allen didn't really become JOSH ALLEN til year 3. We are just in year 2 of Mac Jones.
Dugger was their best player and he was in part responsible for the worst defensive play of the game. The defensive front was also passable as they limited the run and generated some pass rush. That said, it was generally a poor effort across the board with the Brown and Mac being the biggest goats and Bryant and Parker receiving honorable mentions.
Brown was terrible for all the reasons stated over the first four pages of this thread. Mac was also up and down, but mostly down with missing Agholor and then throwing him into coverage being the most egregious . I'm also concerned Mac may be suffering from Late-Sage Manning, some of his throws - particularly short outs like the one early on to Meyers that was broken up an d almost picked - were soft and wobbly.
Bryant was beat repeatedly, including the a big 3rd and long to Hill on the last drive of the first half that set up the Waddle TD. He also broke up a DMC interception. I know Bryant was just trying to make a play on the ball but after making Isaiah McKenzie look like Jerry Rice, I don't have a lot of good will remaining. As a 50-50 ball guy, Parker's effort on the 1st drive pick was poor. Not only didn't he fight through the hold, he didn't sell the penalty. You just can't get pushed out of a play like that, it was a big early game momentum changer. Other than that, I think he was targeted once and was taken out of the game by X.
The biggest problem remains the junk draw that is this offense. They lined up in a ton of 2 TE sets yesterday but didn't play like a 2TE offense. They didn't stay committed to the run, they didn't run a lot of misdirection, there wasn't a lot of disguise, and in doing so, they effectively benched their best playmaker with Bourne only getting two snaps. When they did try to disguise what they were doing, they should have audibled out of it as Montgomery has no business running between the guards into a 4-man front on 3rd and short.
History has taught me the first 25% of the season should not be a barometer of the remainder of the season, particularly given changes to pre-season routines. However, my optimism in this regard is far more cautious than it usually is.
Brown was terrible for all the reasons stated over the first four pages of this thread. Mac was also up and down, but mostly down with missing Agholor and then throwing him into coverage being the most egregious . I'm also concerned Mac may be suffering from Late-Sage Manning, some of his throws - particularly short outs like the one early on to Meyers that was broken up an d almost picked - were soft and wobbly.
Bryant was beat repeatedly, including the a big 3rd and long to Hill on the last drive of the first half that set up the Waddle TD. He also broke up a DMC interception. I know Bryant was just trying to make a play on the ball but after making Isaiah McKenzie look like Jerry Rice, I don't have a lot of good will remaining. As a 50-50 ball guy, Parker's effort on the 1st drive pick was poor. Not only didn't he fight through the hold, he didn't sell the penalty. You just can't get pushed out of a play like that, it was a big early game momentum changer. Other than that, I think he was targeted once and was taken out of the game by X.
The biggest problem remains the junk draw that is this offense. They lined up in a ton of 2 TE sets yesterday but didn't play like a 2TE offense. They didn't stay committed to the run, they didn't run a lot of misdirection, there wasn't a lot of disguise, and in doing so, they effectively benched their best playmaker with Bourne only getting two snaps. When they did try to disguise what they were doing, they should have audibled out of it as Montgomery has no business running between the guards into a 4-man front on 3rd and short.
History has taught me the first 25% of the season should not be a barometer of the remainder of the season, particularly given changes to pre-season routines. However, my optimism in this regard is far more cautious than it usually is.
It was Ferentz. Phil Perry covered this and while PFF is far from perfect they also credited that sack to Brown. In the post-game interviews it was noted that it should have been blocked. Yes, covering a late blitzer is tough but Brown has made this kind of error before (think last year against the Colts IIRC).
View: https://twitter.com/PhilAPerry/status/1569113106009268227?s=20&t=F8j7nYu0kYWCIZUvmj60zA
And a more thorough review of Brown in the video/audio:
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSPatriots/status/1569087874527629319?s=20&t=F8j7nYu0kYWCIZUvmj60zA
The point is that there are many people - goodness listen to sports talk radio - that are essentially saying Mac will never be anything. The point about Josh Allen is simply that it takes time for most QBs - even most of the great ones - to become great. Mac just played the first game of his second season.
Josh Allen was flashing greatness in his first two seasons, even if just looking at pure stat comparisons makes it seem closer than it actually is. Mac still looks like a very rough and average talented QB. The only impressive thing about Mac in his first season was his ability to manage a game and make really good standard throws.
Yes, and I'm not saying Mac will ever be at Josh Allen's level. That's not what I'm getting at. I'm just saying that Mac's ceiling is probably a lot higher than he's currently at. And he's one game into his second year. Pats fans need to be patient and allow the guy to grow into it.
It's a terrible comparison though because Josh Allen had monster tools and had to learn how to play football which took him a couple years. Mac doesn't have those tools. If you want to make that argument use a player with fringy tools.
Even though I think you're generally too harsh on Jones, I basically agree with you here. I think it's possible that your assessment of "average talent" can be improved upon, particularly since he has the underpinnings of game management and basic throws.
That said, the apparent organizational/Belichick decision to go with an offensive coordinator by committee could really hamper his potential to exceed his physical limitations. We don't know the inner workings, of course, but the optics of having Belichick, Patricia, Judge and Hoyer all circled around him was not encouraging.
By all accounts, Tom Brady had "fringy" tools too. No foot speed. Average arm at best.
Scouting reports on Brady:
--Poor build
--Skinny
--Lacks great physical stature and strength
--Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush
--Lacks a really strong arm
--Can’t drive the ball downfield
--Does not throw a really tight spiral
--System-type player who can get exposed if forced to ad lib
--Gets knocked down easily
(see: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/tom-bradys-pre-nfl-draft-scouting-report-will-never-cease-be-funny)
"He's a straight dropback passer who stands tall in the pocket, doesn't show nervous feet, and does a nice job working through his progressions. He's not going to try to force the action, rarely trying to perform beyond his capability....He's accurate, throws a very catchable ball, and also knows when to take a little off the pass....
At the pro level, his lack of mobility could surface as a problem, and it will be interesting to see how he fares when forced to take more chances down the field. Sure, he doesn't have the total package of skills, but you have to be impressed with his level of performance this past season"
(see: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29040115/tom-brady-scouting-report-2000-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-pre-draft-grade-ranking)
No, I'm not saying Mac will be Tom Brady. But you asked for another guy with "fringy" tools. Reading the scouting reports on Brady, he had fringy tools....looked very similar to what Mac Jones looked like.
And if you want to make that comp.... fine.
The point is people keep making comps like Josh Allen, and it is dumb, Josh Allen's first 3 years tell us nothing about Mac's 1st 3 years, they might as well be different species.
I do think it is telling that people either reach for totally dissimilar players or go back 20+ years.... mostly because they don't like the more recent similar player comps because it's mostly middle of the pack starting QBs (not a bad outcome, but nobody gets excited by that)
Mac will likely get better over his first 3 years....but trying to argue for it using Allen is just silliness.
I mean, we basically have no choice here. He's the best option for them at QB right now and for the foreseeable future, so we have to hope he can continue to develop and mature. But, I don't think there's any way of knowing right now that his ceiling is "probably a lot higher" than what we have currently seen. I sure hope it is, but it certainly might not be.
Other than Allen, who has physical tools that set him apart from Mac and make it a bad comparison, what other elite QBs who have come into the league recently took multiple years to develop? I know Mahomes didn't play right away but he was great from basically the day he finally was named the starter. Herbert, Burrow, Jackson, Dak, Watson, Murray all pretty much showed from the get go that they were going to be elite, none of them had to be developed over multiple seasons.
Edit: Guys who start out shaky to mediocre (Wentz, Goff, Darnold, Tua, WInston, Tannhill, Trubisky, Jones) seem to have a much lower ceiling.
Drew Brees' scouting report also showed not tons in the "physical tools" department. Again, not saying Mac is Drew Brees, but it's another example of a guy with limited tools that took a few years to really click in the NFL. He didn't become DREW BREES til his fourth season.
Joe Burrow is another guy who had a similar scouting report and similar college stats to Mac Jones. People weren't sold on his arm either. Scouts loved his poise and accuracy and toughness and leadership, etc., but didn't think he had a good arm.
From one scouting report:
Weaknesses:
—Lacks elite arm strength.
—Can struggle to throw outside the numbers due to lack of power.
(from: View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2883659-joe-burrow-nfl-draft-2020-scouting-report-for-cincinnati-bengals-pick
)
And he blossomed in his second year, mainly due to having elite weapons around him, which Mac clearly doesn't have.
Burrow is probably the best argument, he's not a freak in terms of arm or athleticism and he was bad as a rookie, broke out year 2.
Or I guess we could go back 20 years are pretend that breaking guys into the league now is the same as then, and cherry pick 3-5 of the 100s of QBs to play in that era.
Yes for sure Mac has a lower ceiling than guys like Mahomes who can make every throw, from any platform imaginable. But I mean, Mahomes may end up being one of the greatest to ever play the position. Josh Allen might be that too. But Mahomes didn't even play his rookie year. Mac was thrown into the fire right away. Burrow was ok his rookie year, not crazy great (89.8 passer rating compared to Mac's 92.5), but he's played with MUCH better offensive skill position talent around him than Mac has.
I mean, we all agree that Mac Jones is much more likely to end up with a career more like Chad Pennington than Tom Brady or Drew Brees. That doesn't even need to be said, though I guess apparently it does.
The entire point of this from my end is simply that Mac Jones has played one game into his second season in the NFL. Of COURSE there's going to be growing pains. And he doesn't have elite offensive talent around him to help boost him. It'll take time for him to become the best version of Mac Jones.
The questions are:
(1) What is his true ceiling? I personally think it's pretty good, one where he could be a multiple time legit pro-bowler (not one of the "I'm in the pro bowl because nine guys declined to go" things, but a legit pro bowler).
(2) Can the Patriots win playoff games and maybe even a Super Bowl with Mac? Who knows, but I think it's possible. Other teams have won recently with not great QBs: Eli won twice. Joe Flacco won. The corpse of Peyton Manning won (obviously an all time great, but when the Broncos won it with him, he was HORRIFICALLY bad and had the worst arm in the league at that point). Nick Foles won (ugh). Even Matthew Stafford, who is talented, isn't an "elite" QB, and he won. In the last 11 years, that's 5 teams that have won with very much non-elite QBs at the helm. So I think, if BB builds the team right, that they can win it with Mac.
(3) How long will it take to get there? Again, who knows. I think it'll be a while. Like, maybe 3-4 years from now when Mac is a true veteran, and these players from these recent successful drafts have matured. That's probably when they will be true contenders at the earliest. Of course it doesn't help that the AFC is frigging LOADED so even if Mac reaches his ceiling by then, it might not be enough, but who knows.
The entire point of this from my end is simply that Mac Jones has played one game into his second season in the NFL. Of COURSE there's going to be growing pains. And he doesn't have elite offensive talent around him to help boost him. It'll take time for him to become the best version of Mac Jones.
The questions are:
(1) What is his true ceiling? I personally think it's pretty good, one where he could be a multiple time legit pro-bowler (not one of the "I'm in the pro bowl because nine guys declined to go" things, but a legit pro bowler).
(2) Can the Patriots win playoff games and maybe even a Super Bowl with Mac? Who knows, but I think it's possible. Other teams have won recently with not great QBs: Eli won twice. Joe Flacco won. The corpse of Peyton Manning won (obviously an all time great, but when the Broncos won it with him, he was HORRIFICALLY bad and had the worst arm in the league at that point). Nick Foles won (ugh). Even Matthew Stafford, who is talented, isn't an "elite" QB, and he won. In the last 11 years, that's 5 teams that have won with very much non-elite QBs at the helm. So I think, if BB builds the team right, that they can win it with Mac.
(3) How long will it take to get there? Again, who knows. I think it'll be a while. Like, maybe 3-4 years from now when Mac is a true veteran, and these players from these recent successful drafts have matured. That's probably when they will be true contenders at the earliest. Of course it doesn't help that the AFC is frigging LOADED so even if Mac reaches his ceiling by then, it might not be enough, but who knows.
Josh Allen is a wild comparison not just because of his tools, but also that his trajectory is unique in that he was so bad his first two years. Guys almost never make the kind of improvement he did, particularly in the accuracy department, and he was only able to do so I'd argue because he is so physically gifted. Yeah he improved a lot but it doesn't mean anything about Jones because Allen's the total exception to the rule in multiple ways.
Mac has a much narrower set of potential outcomes. He showed a ton of mental prowess and great accuracy for a rookie; his decision-making and reading defenses generally was very solid and that's something that rookies tend to struggle at because of the speed and complexity of NFL defenses compared to college (probably facing the best defenses in college helped him there for sure). But, his physical tools are limited. He has a quick release, which is great, but he doesn't throw bullets and he's not big or agile enough to avoid sacks or make plays with his legs. I feel like if I were playing him I'd just drop 7-8 into zone on passing downs and dare him to hit his spots; if your defense is athletic he's going to have a tough time fitting balls into the holes in the zone.
What is disappointing about yesterday is that he showed even less zip on his passes than we were used to seeing. I would have hoped than an offseason in an NFL weightroom with training and work on his mechanics would have helped there but we're not seeing it. Maybe there was something about game 1 that they were holding back on, but that makes me much more bearish on his ceiling. I don't see it being much higher than what we saw last year and ultimately that's not the guy who is going to bring you a ring unless you can build a great roster around him. It's the Jimmy G type that you're going to have to decide after year 5 to either give him a big contract or let him go and restart the process.
Edit: Brady had the mental part and all the intangibles as a rookie but he developed a lot by working really hard on his mechanics and body to the point that he could make all the throws (He also had a few more inches on Mac to add strength too). That's what we need from Mac.
Mac has a much narrower set of potential outcomes. He showed a ton of mental prowess and great accuracy for a rookie; his decision-making and reading defenses generally was very solid and that's something that rookies tend to struggle at because of the speed and complexity of NFL defenses compared to college (probably facing the best defenses in college helped him there for sure). But, his physical tools are limited. He has a quick release, which is great, but he doesn't throw bullets and he's not big or agile enough to avoid sacks or make plays with his legs. I feel like if I were playing him I'd just drop 7-8 into zone on passing downs and dare him to hit his spots; if your defense is athletic he's going to have a tough time fitting balls into the holes in the zone.
What is disappointing about yesterday is that he showed even less zip on his passes than we were used to seeing. I would have hoped than an offseason in an NFL weightroom with training and work on his mechanics would have helped there but we're not seeing it. Maybe there was something about game 1 that they were holding back on, but that makes me much more bearish on his ceiling. I don't see it being much higher than what we saw last year and ultimately that's not the guy who is going to bring you a ring unless you can build a great roster around him. It's the Jimmy G type that you're going to have to decide after year 5 to either give him a big contract or let him go and restart the process.
Edit: Brady had the mental part and all the intangibles as a rookie but he developed a lot by working really hard on his mechanics and body to the point that he could make all the throws (He also had a few more inches on Mac to add strength too). That's what we need from Mac.
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The problem with your "growing pains" argument is that you're assuming that the good outweighs the bad and that's what folks are trying to tell you, it doesn't and hasn't. Sure he might develop a bit more to be a net positive on this team, but other elite QBs were winning games on their own while having "growing pains". Mac Jones can't afford to have a lot of those, especially when his strength is basically being a game manager that doesn't make mistakes. There's not a lot of room for him to make mistakes. The other guys you listing had so many other positive attributes that it's not even a fair comparison.
At this point, Mac is closer to Ryan Fitzpatrick than he is to any of those guys you listed.
Hi all - new poster here and I signed up *specifically* because of yesterday's game. I wrote out and deleted a whole rant, but suffice to say, this is disappointing. I know, 20 something years of unmatched success has made me spoiled. I can handle bad seasons (the last two, where Brady couldn't leave fast enough and last year where they were just feisty enough to get slaughtered in the first round of the playoffs count), but this season already looks shot in a way that is irredeemable. It's one thing to be bad while building towards the future, its another thing to be bad when you ostensibly want to compete in the present - and last year's spending spree combined with Jones' on a rookie contract seems to indicate that the latter is true. Honestly, even if the Pats get a high draft pick, I no longer trust them to use it correctly. The last several drafts have been more or less abject failures (I like Jones, jury is out on Barmore, Harris/Stevenson go as the O-line goes which is not very good now), so I would expect the Pats to use a top 5 pick on a 5th year senior punter at a DIII school with 2 reconstructive knee surgeries who they want to convert into a slot receiver - all because he made a really good hustle play one time when he was playing TE in high school.
I guess what I am saying is that I have lost faith in the leadership of this team. Watching yesterday, no one seemed to care about anything, good or bad. Pre-snap, it seemed like someone was always out of alignment or Jones was scrambling to get a play off. Weird play calls throughout. A defense that had such brilliant ideas as "let Tyreek Hill do whatever" that ended in predictable results. No QB pressure at all. This team looks awful to me in a way that they never have before.
I guess what I am saying is that I have lost faith in the leadership of this team. Watching yesterday, no one seemed to care about anything, good or bad. Pre-snap, it seemed like someone was always out of alignment or Jones was scrambling to get a play off. Weird play calls throughout. A defense that had such brilliant ideas as "let Tyreek Hill do whatever" that ended in predictable results. No QB pressure at all. This team looks awful to me in a way that they never have before.
Mac won 10 games in his rookie season, despite his limitations. Very few rookie QBs win that much. Mac isn't an elite QB. Maybe he never will be. But I think it's crazy that some folks think he's basically hit his ceiling or is already essentially a failure, which if you listen to talk radio (maybe a bad idea on my part) is what you hear a lot.
I agree with you that right now there's not a lot of room for Mac to make mistakes right now.
Personally I am not saying he's hit his ceiling. What I am pushing back on is your assertion that his ceiling is "probably" a lot higher than what we've seen so far. There's literally nothing behind that assertion. It might be true, but it also might not be true, and recent history suggests guys simply don't develop as NFL QBs in that way. We have no choice but to HOPE that his ceiling is higher than what we've seen so far, but there's absolutely no guarantee that it is.
People were looking for some progress from Mac in Year 2 Game1 and at least what I saw was a performance that was worse than what we saw out of him most of last year. Now, again, the line sucked and his receivers aren't great, but he also made a lot of bad throws and bad decisions. After an entire off-season working with the Pats staff on strength and conditioning and mechanics and whatnot, that's somewhat disconcerting.
This is by far my biggest concern. I truly do not understand Bill's approach to offensive coaching, and I'm struggling to see how this will be the optimal way to develop Mac. I mean, we don't even have an experienced, dedicated QB coach.
The Patriots held 7 of those 10 opponents to 13 or fewer points.... a lot more QBs would win games as rookies if they had elite defensive output (I don't think the D was elite, but in wins the output was usually great against mostly bad teams). Mac is solid, Mac will likely get a bit better... there isn't any particular reason to think he's going to get MUCH better... most QBs like him don't. The explosion guys are usually the elite athletic talents.
The Pats offense was 5th in weighted DVOA in 2021 - so this wasn't some record based purely on the defense. The passing offense was 10th in DVOA. Apparently the Pats ceiling with a rookie Mac is 5th overall in total offense.
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Who wouldn’t take Mac turning in to Ryan, a former MVP, 4-time pro bowler, etc. He’s probably a top 15 QB of all time
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Yeah, if MJ's career approaches Brees (mentioned above as comp) or Matty Ice, I'm gonna need one of those bent carrot pills.
I wonder if we can be on Hard Knocks next year? I kinda like the Lions after watching the tragedy and comedy of their training camp unfold.
Edit: typos, weirdness
I think he'll end up being a guy who makes several legit pro bowls (never a serious MVP candidate), makes a few deep runs in the playoffs, and generally leads quality teams. Not sure they'll win a SB with him but I do think it's possible.
It’s kind of wild….there are only 7 active qb’s who have won a SB as a a starter.
Brady 7
Rodgers 1
Stafford 1
Wilson 1
Flacco 1
Mahomes 1
Foles 1
Brady 7
Rodgers 1
Stafford 1
Wilson 1
Flacco 1
Mahomes 1
Foles 1