Week 17

Van Everyman

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Part of me loathes the NFL once again for over-officiating everything. You know Allen won’t see any real accountability because when was the last time anyone in the NFL was held accountable for anything?

The other part of me loves that Belichick has wrought this kind of chaos.
 

JohnnyK

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May 8, 2007
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Going for 2 from the 7 down by 1 point just doesn't make any sense to me if you want to win the game at all.
Maybe the plan was to hard count to see if Dallas would jump, which they did, so they snapped it. If Dallas had not jumped they take the delay of game and kick the extra point
 

Cotillion

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Jun 11, 2019
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Maybe Allen made an assumption because why else would 70 be running straight at him when entering the game. The rule specifically says you cannot stop the clock to allow eligibility reporting, so Allen was probably moving fast. Dunno, maybe there are mechanics that he fucked up, but from what it looks like to me, three guys approached him and he believed it was 70 who was reporting. Why 70 was running toward Allen when 68 was declaring? Well, I think we have some evidence here the Lions we’re trying to be deceptive.

Edit — I was typing as the pool report was posted above. This is exactly what it looked like to me. I do not believe Allen confused 68 and 70. He thought 70 was reporting, just like he had before, and told that to the Cowboys. How loud 68 was, we will never know. I fucking hate the Cowboys, but where I come down on this was the Lions we’re trying to be deceptive.
It is not the refs job to interpret or assume. Players often run in and convey information to other players all game long. 70 can be running up to 68 or other guy “hey remember how to lineup properly”. The only person to actively say I’m eligible is 68.

If your excuse it was too loud for the ref to hear 68 reporting as eligible, there is no way he ever heard 70 (who the entire time is much further away report) and that means the ref is just picking who was reporting, which is not how he is supposed to act nor how the rule is written. He is suppose to listen and then convey who actually reported.

This is solely a ref fuckup.
 

johnmd20

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Part of me loathes the NFL once again for over-officiating everything. You know Allen won’t see any real accountability because when was the last time anyone in the NFL was held accountable for anything?

The other part of me loves that Belichick has wrought this kind of chaos.
No he didn’t. Man, what a leap that is.

Not everything is about the Patriots.
 

Pesky Pole

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Just waking up to this chaos but I wonder if NFL Films has the footage of the interaction with the audio. And I wonder whose fireplace is having a special burning of said tapes this morning. If the Lions wanted to reap chaos, they'd ask for that footage this morning (presuming it exists).
 

NDame616

will bailey
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Jul 31, 2006
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Yes the ref screwed up but that screw up led to 68 being open. The ref clearly told the defense 70 was eligible. You see the defense point to him and all eyes are on him pre snap.

Had he told the defense 68 was eligible they would've paid attention to him and who knows if it's completed.

So this wasn't a WR lining up offsides and having nothing to do with the play, but it's a pre snap penalty.

The ref screw up directly led to the play being successful
 

tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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You mean the guy who is in charge of all NFL Officiating?
Yes. Correct. He is a liar. Or at best, someone who did not speak up with the truth during DFG.

Edit: I take it back, he is a liar. He lied during the Bengals-Raiders playoff game a couple years ago.

Edit 2: I don't even understand your point. A guy in charge can't be a liar?

Roger Goodell is a liar. Donald Trump is a liar. Etc.
 
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radsoxfan

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Aug 9, 2009
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NFL refs stink. This ref is probably a liar.

But as an aside, having this protocol to change the rules for player eligibility is absurd. Why should the players and refs have to do this real time in a loud stadium and be expected to get it clear and correct every time?

Just have the same rules all game. No weird gadget formations with tackles sometimes allowed to catch passes if they tell the refs, the ref to hear it right, and the D to gets massage from the ref.

Imagine in the NBA, before a big out of bounds play, a player could whisper some rule change in effect for that play to a ref. Then the ref had to quickly let the D know about it. It makes no sense and is bound to lead to F-ups.
 
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Van Everyman

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No he didn’t. Man, what a leap that is.

Not everything is about the Patriots.
Belichick started this whole thing with the Ravens game in the 2014 playoffs. The league, as it does, overreacted and sided with Harbaugh’s “it was deceptive and unfair” bullshit, so instead of allowing it to stand by just having the refs give the defense more time to adjust to the new alignment, they created a new process that required the now ineligible receivers to line up within the tackle box. Because God forbid they allow Belichick to innovate the game in any way. And predictably the refs struggle to follow this overofficiated bullshit.

In a perfect world last night’s shitshow would have benefited Ted Marchibroda’s old team. But I suspect Bill may have been chuckling if he was watching last night.
 

speedracer

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Jul 19, 2005
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NFL refs stink. This ref is probably a liar.

But as an aside, having this protocol to change the rules for player eligibility is absurd. Why should the players and refs have to do this real time in a loud stadium and be expected to get it clear and correct every time?

Just have the same rules all game. No weird gadget formations with tackles sometimes allowed to catch passes if they tell the refs, the ref to hear it right, and the D to gets massage from the ref.

Imagine in the NBA, before a big out of bounds play, a player could whisper some rule change in effect for that play to a ref. Then the ref had to quickly let the D know about it. It makes no sense and is bound to lead to F-ups.
IIRC this rule exists because NFL rosters are small and teams often need 50-79s to line up as ends or in the backfield on special teams -- going to the NCAA rule of never allowing the 50-79 shirts to be eligible would hurt plays from kick formation.
 

johnmd20

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Belichick started this whole thing with the Ravens game in the 2014 playoffs. The league, as it does, overreacted and sided with Harbaugh’s “it was deceptive and unfair” bullshit, so instead of allowing it to stand by just having the refs give the defense more time to adjust to the new alignment, they created a new process that required the now ineligible receivers to line up within the tackle box. Because God forbid they allow Belichick to innovate the game in any way. And predictably the refs struggle to follow this overofficiated bullshit.

In a perfect world last night’s shitshow would have benefited Ted Marchibroda’s old team. But I suspect Bill may have been chuckling if he was watching last night.
Belichick didn't invent gamesmanship. What Detroit did last night had nothing to do with anything the Patriots have ever done.

Not everything is about Bill Belichick or the Patriots. Other teams can try zany things too. It's ok. It doesn't diminish the 6 Super Bowls.
 

johnmd20

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Yes. Correct. He is a liar. Or at best, someone who did not speak up with the truth during DFG.

Edit: I take it back, he is a liar. He lied during the Bengals-Raiders playoff game a couple years ago.

Edit 2: I don't even understand your point. A guy in charge can't be a liar?

Roger Goodell is a liar. Donald Trump is a liar. Etc.
CRB Rules is a ref defender. In his eyes, the refs are never wrong. There is *always* a reason why the refs got it right, even if they got it completely wrong.

Amani Coopers catches a ball on the sidelines, doesn't come close to going out of bounds, and the refs call him out of bounds anyway and a ref defender would be like, "Well, the angle was bad and from the ref's perspective, he got the call right due to his placement on the field. Good call, Cooper staying in bounds is irrelevant compared to the angle the ref had from the middle of the field.."

Always protecting the shield.
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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NFL refs stink. This ref is probably a liar.

But as an aside, having this protocol to change the rules for player eligibility is absurd. Why should the players and refs have to do this real time in a loud stadium and be expected to get it clear and correct every time?

Just have the same rules all game. No weird gadget formations with tackles sometimes allowed to catch passes if they tell the refs, the ref to hear it right, and the D to gets massage from the ref.

Imagine in the NBA, before a big out of bounds play, a player could whisper some rule change in effect for that play to a ref. Then the ref had to quickly let the D know about it. It makes no sense and is bound to lead to F-ups.
Not sure I understand your comment. Certain formations are legal or not. The rule isn’t changing. Certain jerseys are not eligible to help with enforcing this unless declared eligible.
 

radsoxfan

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Not sure I understand your comment. Certain formations are legal or not. The rule isn’t changing. Certain jerseys are not eligible to help with enforcing this unless declared eligible.
I presume speedracer above explained the reason for this protocol. The rule about formations isn't changing, but there is a "rule" about how you alert the ref which players are eligible. In the end, there should be no need for on field real-time communication from players to refs back to the defense to say which player is eligible on a particular play.

Not sure if the answer is more flexibility around jersey numbers, larger roster size, more onus on the D to be aware of formations, less flexibility for the offense to have different formations, etc.

But there has to be a way to play football without requiring linemen running up to a ref and telling them on a particular play to alert the D they are now eligible. It's archaic and bound to lead to problems.

If anything, have the head coach or OC be forced to send out a real-time text alert to the ref and the jersey # goes up on the scoreboard (like the play clock). It should be in writing and unequivocal. None of this whispering sweet nothings to the ref who then plays telephone with the D in a loud stadium.
 

CFB_Rules

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CRB Rules is a ref defender. In his eyes, the refs are never wrong. There is *always* a reason why the refs got it right, even if they got it completely wrong.

Amani Coopers catches a ball on the sidelines, doesn't come close to going out of bounds, and the refs call him out of bounds anyway and a ref defender would be like, "Well, the angle was bad and from the ref's perspective, he got the call right due to his placement on the field. Good call, Cooper staying in bounds is irrelevant compared to the angle the ref had from the middle of the field.."
You must have me on ignore for all the times I say they get it wrong.

But yes, I'll admit that typically there is a reason for why people do things.
 

Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
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Has the NFL considered a 2nd Red Zone channel, if not the whole season, but maybe the last 2 or 3 weeks, and just for the 1PM slot (other than last week)? Like 1 for AFC games and 1 for NFC games. Like there are what 8 or so games and half of them or more mean something.
 

CFB_Rules

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Yes. Correct. He is a liar. Or at best, someone who did not speak up with the truth during DFG.

Edit: I take it back, he is a liar. He lied during the Bengals-Raiders playoff game a couple years ago.

Edit 2: I don't even understand your point. A guy in charge can't be a liar?

Roger Goodell is a liar. Donald Trump is a liar. Etc.
I'm saying that clearly the NFL teams must have been very happy with his on-field performance, given that he was promoted by them.
 

BigJimEd

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Jan 4, 2002
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Yes the ref screwed up but that screw up led to 68 being open. The ref clearly told the defense 70 was eligible. You see the defense point to him and all eyes are on him pre snap.
It was obvious 70 was lined up inside and wasn't eligible. But yeah, you still can't assume the defense plays it the same if they are told 68 is eligible.
Ref screwed up. Simple as that.

Not sure any rules/ procedures need to be changed but they could have players put an eligible jersey number on in these situations. Simple enough change.

Or they just could do away with eligible/ ineligible numbers and just go by where the player lines up. But that's not happening.
 

Harry Hooper

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Maybe they should quickly throw vests on players instead of doing eligible/ineligible declarations to the officials? As in:

Green = ineligible number is eligible for this play
Yellow = eligible number is ineligible for this play
Blue = player could be eligible or ineligible on the upcoming play, depending on formation
 

riboflav

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Jan 20, 2006
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The Ravens are honoring one of their all-time greats today in a pregame ceremony. So many former good players to choose from... Ray Rice! No joke.

Who out there was clamoring for this? The only couple Ravens fans I know don't want to talk about it. They're embarrassed.
 

Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
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The Ravens are honoring one of their all-time greats today in a pregame ceremony. So many former good players to choose from... Ray Rice! No joke.

Who out there was clamoring for this? The only couple Ravens fans I know don't want to talk about it. They're embarrassed.
Did they wait for the Dolphins game so that Tyreek Hill could fully appreciate this man?
 

johnmd20

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The Ravens are honoring one of their all-time greats today in a pregame ceremony. So many former good players to choose from... Ray Rice! No joke.

Who out there was clamoring for this? The only couple Ravens fans I know don't want to talk about it. They're embarrassed.
It really is a baffling thing. The Ravens chucked Rice into the trash compactor after the video. And now they are honoring him? He wasn't even that amazing. He was solid.

Solid players shouldn't get honors. Solid players who were caught on video beating a woman DEFINITELY shouldn't be honored.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Sep 21, 2007
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It really is a baffling thing. The Ravens chucked Rice into the trash compactor after the video. And now they are honoring him? He wasn't even that amazing. He was solid.

Solid players shouldn't get honors. Solid players who were caught on video beating a woman DEFINITELY shouldn't be honored.
The juxtaposition of the Cowboys honoring Jimmy Johnson - a man directly or indirectly responsible for three Super Bowls - after an almost thirty year personal schism between him and the owner and the Ravens honoring fucking Ray Rice the next day….yeesh.
 

Mooch

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Jul 15, 2005
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Justin Fields has looked pretty good today. Thrown two beautiful deep touch passes. I think the Bears would be making a huge mistake to give up on him.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Now Lamar was always a better passer, but I watching how he's developed does make me curious about Fields with his next team
 

brienc

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Jul 26, 2005
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Mr. 28-3 starting to feel that apple getting stuck in his throat yet again. Hope he enjoys the trip to Philly, if the Niners don’t choke before then.
 

Ed Hillel

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Fields is too good for the Bears to let go. They’ll trade back and nab MHJ imo. Pats prob a potential trade partner.