Is Mac Jones the biggest bust in Patriots history?
- Thread starter Arroyoyo
- Start date
That should be the first question Kraft or Kraft should ask any new GM candidate. If they think they can salvage Mac, move on.
Even if a potential GM thinks there’s something to salvage in Mac, they have to recognize that it’s impossible to do so here. The earth is salted, and the best you can do, both for him and you, is to get him somewhere else.
For laughs I re-watched Mac's GW TD pass against Coach Hardo this year, as that was BB's 300th regular season win and it was significant.
And for the first time I saw it: Mac was falling backwards EVEN ON THAT PASS. His feet were completely locked up, and he did not have pressure.
Even on arguably the most clutch play of his shitty career, Mac was still awful and broken.
This dude nearly single-handedly destroyed the end of the BB era.
And for the first time I saw it: Mac was falling backwards EVEN ON THAT PASS. His feet were completely locked up, and he did not have pressure.
Even on arguably the most clutch play of his shitty career, Mac was still awful and broken.
This dude nearly single-handedly destroyed the end of the BB era.
I'm glad we're absolving the people who drafted him and put this awful offensive roster together, lol.
Listen, we get it, Mac sucks, he's one of the worst draft picks in the history of the franchise, but there is a LONG list of people and decisions which brought us here to the post BB era.
I did say "nearly."
But the point remains. They needed an franchise QB and this jackass was the anti-franchise. Combine that with an entitled persona and shitty attitude and here we are.
But the point remains. They needed an franchise QB and this jackass was the anti-franchise. Combine that with an entitled persona and shitty attitude and here we are.
SJH doesn't need my help, but his use of "nearly" and "the end of the BB era" probably absolves him (this time).
Mac has taught me more than anyone else how little I know about football and who will be a good NFL pro.
This right here. Jones played a small part in the demise but this is on Bill who couldn't build a modern offense or be honest with themselves about the state of the franchise the second Brady walked out the door. They should have started the full rebuild right then and there not wait 4 additional years to wait for it. They got a fake one year bump from free agency and then came right back down to what all teams do when they throw money around in free agency.
I'm the kind of guy who likes to wait and see. I cut him a lot slack early, and thought some people were really jumping the gun, on both his potential and his personality.
A huge part of message boarding is being able to learn from available data, and adjust one's viewpoint. Well, good message boarding anyway. But I digress.
The data is in. I was more wrong than I ever thought possible, never saw this epic disaster coming, and it all leads back to Mac Jones. Yeah, they drafted him, but they almost had to, and virtually no one thought it was a bad move. Just turned out he was poison. Good fucking riddance.
And my previous rant aside, I wish him no lasting ill will, except maybe third-string slot in Saskatchewan, in perpetuity.
I hear the Holden Fighting Elks of the Greater Bangor Beer League are looking for a backup.
To everyone putting the whole Mac thing on Bill, shame on you. Never this whole time have you said that Bill got hoisted by his own petard.
Spoilered for length, from Breer's overview of Belichick's departure -- but if you're a fan of "false bravado" and "irrational courage," you won't be disappointed
https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/01/11/inside-the-final-season-for-patriots-coach-bill-belichick
In 2021, Belichick liked Alabama’s Mac Jones and Stanford’s Davis Mills, seeing Jones as the best option at the position in the class apart from Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence. And while the Patriots didn’t love Jones, who had his share of physical limitations, they knew they needed to do something at the position after how going into ’20 without a real quarterback plan played out.
They’d agree on taking Jones with the No. 15 pick rather than the alternative, which would’ve been drafting a position player there, and coming back and getting Mills either in the second round, or with a trade up into the bottom of the first round. And while they were on the clock, there wasn’t much discussion about doing anything else.
Things went fine during Jones’s rookie year. He had his ups and downs, and there was a fair amount of handholding to guide him along—with McDaniels at times helping him read coverages and make checks through the headset—like Sean McVay once did for Jared Goff in Los Angeles. Belichick was optimistic internally on Jones coming out of the year, even with McDaniels off to Vegas.
Things came undone with Judge and Patricia running the offense in 2022. But most Patriots people felt like, with O’Brien aboard, the “real” Mac, the one from ’21, who could at least drive the bus at quarterback, would resurface.
Instead, Jones came back with a confidence that some teammates, coaches and staff saw as false bravado. It was bolstered with Zappe struggling and the team deciding not to trade up for Kentucky’s Will Levis in April, which had been at least a point of discussion.
Jones’s irrational courage would, in time, crater, with crushing mistakes that showed up in early losses to the Saints and Cowboys repeated in practice—to the point where teammates on defense were calling them out. And Zappe kept fighting to show a staff that had determined he wasn’t good enough—cutting him in August and bringing him back after—that he could do the job, smirking to coaches as he completed more difficult throws on the practice field. The competition made things icy in the quarterbacks room, too. In 2022, Zappe, who was a rookie, would watch tape in the receivers room just to get out of there, according to sources.
On the field, the result was Jones playing outside of himself, with that bravado (false or otherwise), and Zappe fighting to get another shot. Zappe earned that shot the same way he did the year before, simply by showing that he’d go out there and follow the coach, winning over Belichick, who’d grown tired of Jones’s attitude and lack of leadership qualities for the position.
They’d agree on taking Jones with the No. 15 pick rather than the alternative, which would’ve been drafting a position player there, and coming back and getting Mills either in the second round, or with a trade up into the bottom of the first round. And while they were on the clock, there wasn’t much discussion about doing anything else.
Things went fine during Jones’s rookie year. He had his ups and downs, and there was a fair amount of handholding to guide him along—with McDaniels at times helping him read coverages and make checks through the headset—like Sean McVay once did for Jared Goff in Los Angeles. Belichick was optimistic internally on Jones coming out of the year, even with McDaniels off to Vegas.
Things came undone with Judge and Patricia running the offense in 2022. But most Patriots people felt like, with O’Brien aboard, the “real” Mac, the one from ’21, who could at least drive the bus at quarterback, would resurface.
Instead, Jones came back with a confidence that some teammates, coaches and staff saw as false bravado. It was bolstered with Zappe struggling and the team deciding not to trade up for Kentucky’s Will Levis in April, which had been at least a point of discussion.
Jones’s irrational courage would, in time, crater, with crushing mistakes that showed up in early losses to the Saints and Cowboys repeated in practice—to the point where teammates on defense were calling them out. And Zappe kept fighting to show a staff that had determined he wasn’t good enough—cutting him in August and bringing him back after—that he could do the job, smirking to coaches as he completed more difficult throws on the practice field. The competition made things icy in the quarterbacks room, too. In 2022, Zappe, who was a rookie, would watch tape in the receivers room just to get out of there, according to sources.
On the field, the result was Jones playing outside of himself, with that bravado (false or otherwise), and Zappe fighting to get another shot. Zappe earned that shot the same way he did the year before, simply by showing that he’d go out there and follow the coach, winning over Belichick, who’d grown tired of Jones’s attitude and lack of leadership qualities for the position.
Gotta love that. Mac thought he could fake it until he made it, instead of, you know, actually getting better. And with another QB in the room actually pushing him, Mac's response was to turtle.
I mean I guess it is even a further indictment of Mac that Zappe won reps by just doing what his coaches asked him to do, because he clearly cannot play the position itself any better than Mac can. But the bottom line is that the position was an epic disaster for the team regardless of who was getting reps. I guess it is better to give them to the guy who listens to his coaches, but either way both guys were giant fucking turds this year.
I remember after year one more than one poster here still expressing concerns that Mac wasn't the guy, and I honestly couldn't understand it. Shows what I know.
Are they going to run it back with Mac? I wonder if McDaniel stays with Kraft and not BB.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/mac-jones-became-a-major-sticking-point-for-bill-belichick-patriots
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/mac-jones-became-a-major-sticking-point-for-bill-belichick-patriots
This brings to mind the "we considered drafting JoeJuan Williams in the first round, but wound up getting him in the second!" You were? Jesus Christ.
Well, I am unsure the best time to cut him, and such a move should be the decision of the new GM and coaching staff anyway. But I will immediately lose all faith in the organization if there is even a whisper of sliver of a possibility of a chance of their exercising the 5th year option.
There is no reason to cut him. He’s making peanuts next year and it’s likely he’s going to be traded on draft day for a future pick anyways probably in the later rounds.
If only we had. That extra second or third round pick could be contributing now and the QB position would suck 38% less.
On DAZN, one of the international broadcasters, they show German language ads and they've been the same since the beginning of the year. One has a woman wearing a Jones jersey. I've grown to hate her.
The article was saying we'd trade up into R1, not back from #15. Our R2 pick in 2021 was Barmore, so we'd have lost him along with whatever it took to move up -- Ronnie Perkins (R3) and/or Rhamondre (R4). On the plus side, we could have spent our R1 on someone other than Mac, like, err ... Kadarius Toney, Kwity Paye, Caleb Farley or Najee Harris? Not much there...
The dynamic between Mac, BB and Kraft feels like a power play. Maybe Mac hears that BB wanted to trade him, in turn Mac sucks or had already sucked up to Kraft. Mac sucks on purpose on the field to get BB jettisoned, mission accomplished. Mac has the last laugh?
Mac sucks because he sucks. He doesn't have to pretend to suck. It's innate.
edit - And, obviously, in a league where contracts can reach into the 10s of millions, Mac wouldn't suck on purpose only because it could cost him a LOT of money. There is no planning or plotting here, he's a shell shocked mess of a QB.
It's a wildly cruel twist of fate for BB if Mac was drafted due to BB consciously changing to embrace all the in-house opinions on whom to draft.
There was no other realistic option to draft a QB for the Pats. Mills in the first was never going to happen and a trade likely would not produce another second.
Mac was the perfect trap for us.
Mac was the perfect trap for us.
Dennis Byrd in 1968 anyone? 6th pick overall by the Boston Patriots to fill retiring Bob Dee’s spot, played 1 year, and no one taken in the 1st round (27 players) played less career games. He had a knee problem at NC State, where he was dominant, which was discussed in the media before the draft, but the Pats rolled the dice anyway.
He was taken ahead of:
1st round: Larry Csonka (HOF), Haven Moses, Greg Landry, Forrest Blue, MacArthur Lane,
2nd round: Curley Culp (HOF), Ken Stabler (HOF)
3rd round:Charlie Sanders (HOF), Elvin Bethea (HOF), Art Shell (HOF)
Jim Nance was in his prime, so passing on Csonka can be excused, but there were big holes at receiver due to age. At QB Babe Parilli was done – and the Pats knew it. Before the season the Pats traded him to the Jets for Mike Taliaferro.
The Jets had been so unimpressed with Taliaferro’s rookie year (1964) that in the next draft they selected Joe Namath in the first round, Heisman Trophy winner John Huarte in the second, and then two more QBs in the fourth and seventh rounds.
Taliaferro, who had never started more then 5 games with the Jets, started just half the Pats 14 games in 1968, throwing for 4 TDs and 15 interceptions. The next year, having figured out what Jets had long-known about Taliaferro and having missed on drafting QBs Ken Stabler, Greg Landry, or Mike Livingston in 1968, the Pats traded their All-Pro middle linebacker Nick Buoniconti (now in the HOF) for Miami QB bust Kim Hammond (played 21 pro games).
What happened to Byrd was not his fault, but the front office moves back then were sad indeed.
An interesting Mac Jones anecdote in Reiss' latest piece:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39349153/could-patriots-coach-jerod-mayo-revive-mac-jones-career-bill-belichick
Belichick was clearly done with Jones based on his bottom-line actions in the Jan. 7 regular-season finale, when he demoted Jones to the emergency/third quarterback role behind Nathan Rourke, who had just joined the team 20 days prior. Some wondered if it was a way to protect Jones' health for future trade possibilities, but several players didn't buy that explanation because it ran counter to what Belichick always told them about how every decision is to help the team win. Those players hypothesized that Belichick was making a statement that game-day roster spots are earned and Jones' scout-team work, which at one point included too many interceptions, didn't meet his standard.
So by the end, Jones couldn't even run the scout team. Yikes.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39349153/could-patriots-coach-jerod-mayo-revive-mac-jones-career-bill-belichick
Belichick was clearly done with Jones based on his bottom-line actions in the Jan. 7 regular-season finale, when he demoted Jones to the emergency/third quarterback role behind Nathan Rourke, who had just joined the team 20 days prior. Some wondered if it was a way to protect Jones' health for future trade possibilities, but several players didn't buy that explanation because it ran counter to what Belichick always told them about how every decision is to help the team win. Those players hypothesized that Belichick was making a statement that game-day roster spots are earned and Jones' scout-team work, which at one point included too many interceptions, didn't meet his standard.
So by the end, Jones couldn't even run the scout team. Yikes.
I got halfway through the post and figured, “Fuck it, I’ll invite the inevitable.”
And when they gave up on him at least they got a 3rd, 4th and 7th for him. That's about 2 picks (maybe 3) and at least a few rounds higher than anything they're going to get for Mac imo.
Oh didn’t we all
I was only 5 in 1986 but I’d imagine that’s what it must have felt like after the wild pitch / passed ball.
Really? I’d love to hear more. I can’t imagine any NE sports fan would have still thought the Pats could win once the Rams tied it (I realize that they did not immediately tie it after the Tebucky play)
Tebucky also has a Super Bowl ring. He almost had a touchdown but it was called back. Way ahead of Mac.
People were way more emotionally invested in the Sox winning the Series in 1986 than they were the Pats winning the SB in 2001. (And everyone was very invested in seeing the Pats win the SB.)