The next OC?

Who should be the next Offensive Coordinator for the Patriots?

  • Bill O'Brien

    Votes: 19 6.7%

  • Josh McDaniels

    Votes: 43 15.1%

  • A young, passing game oriented type (e.g., former Patriot Zac Robinson, now on the Rams staff)

    Votes: 194 68.3%

  • A veteran coach, regardless of style, since Mayo's strength is defense

    Votes: 24 8.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 1.4%
  • Total voters
    284
E5 Yaz

E5 Yaz

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Mike Garafolo suggested this week that should the Patriots decide to move on from Bill O'Brien, it's possible that Josh McDaniels would be in play to be the Offensive Coordinator under Mayo.

Do we really want to go down this road again? Answer the poll, but what's of more interest is in what direction philosophically do you want to see offensively in the post-Belichick era?
 
Dr. Gonzo

Dr. Gonzo

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I'm just unsure, and others with more knowledge can weigh in, if the Erhardt Perkins scheme is an offense whose days are gone at this point. Does any other team run a variation of it?

If it is dead, move on to another scheme and coaching staff and get your personnel to fit the new system.
 
jsinger121

jsinger121

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I’d rather move off the Josh offense. We can do better especially if we are drafting someone like Jayden Daniels.
 
luckiestman

luckiestman

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Keeping all Belichick underlings would be kind of strange. It means Krafts specifically think Belichick was the problem. Everyone else is great but Bill had to go.
 
Bowser

Bowser

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I went with a veteran coach. I'm not sure our offensive staff is strong enough to bring in a high-flying youngster ... unless a whole new -- and excellent -- staff is coming with him. Klemm didn't make it through Year 1 with us. Will Lawing just finished his first year as our TE coach. Troy Brown seems, ahh, far from superb. Vinnie Sunseri? Billy Yates? Color me underwhelmed...
 
jsinger121

jsinger121

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I think after Wednesday you will see a bunch of coaches fired off this staff. Joe Judge and Cam Acord are two that come to mind. Steve and Brian Belichick are probably less than 50% to return but in order for their careers to advance they should stay.
 
ZMart100

ZMart100

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Dr. Gonzo said:
I'm just unsure, and others with more knowledge can weigh in, if the Erhardt Perkins scheme is an offense whose days are gone at this point. Does any other team run a variation of it?

If it is dead, move on to another scheme and coaching staff and get your personnel to fit the new system.
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Erhardt-Perkins is more of a language than a strategy.
 
mcpickl

mcpickl

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Lose Remerswaal said:
McDaniel? Why not Charlie Weis then? McDaniel's time of relevancy has passed.
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I think because McDaniels is 47 years old and was a good OC here just two years ago, and Weis is 67 years old and hasn't coached anywhere in a decade.

Otherwise, they're exactly the same.
 
Cellar-Door

Cellar-Door

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I would like someone in the Robinson/Kubiak mode especially given the extensive rebuild on offense means that guys are mostly going to be learning a new system anyway.

I can see the appeal of Josh who is a good OC And Mayo has familiarity with. First time HC with a defensive background needs someone who he can trust
 
ZMart100

ZMart100

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Dr. Gonzo said:
Interesting. What would be different strategies/systems being run now? Better yet, successful systems being run?
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I guess a run-pass-option out of shotgun is the fad now? You can call that with Erhardt-Perkins verbiage (or grammar if you prefer), West Coast verbiage or Coryell verbiage. Coryell is probably slightly more limited because of the way route calls work, but there are ways around that.
 
N

NextBigThing8184

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I’d be shocked if it wasn’t O’Brien unless he leaves for greener pastures (HC in college for example)

seems like Kraft is of the mindset Bill was the only thing holding the team back. I don’t expect any external voices to be brought in for prominent jobs. Maybe McDaniels if BOB goes

I don’t want BOB back but that seems more likely than not unless he doesn’t want to be back
 
J

Justthetippett

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I voted BOB but I'm not thrilled. I hope he at least adds some new guys as position coaches, qc/vid review coaches etc.
 
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

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The offense under Josh was overly complicated for QB (unless Brady was under center) and WR. I think it would be crazy to bring back Josh, plus he's almost certainly tied to BB wherever he ends up. I'd rather keep BOB, at least he has run an offense around a mobile-ish QB in Watson. But my top choice is fresh young offensive mind/new system.
 
Red Averages

Red Averages

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Bring in someone that can develop a young QB and establish an offensive culture. That is all.
 
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

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I don't care that Klemm isn't coming back and I wasn't impressed with how his OL looked this season, BUT:

I'm getting a little annoyed/concerned by the people who have left and the folks who are still here who seemed to take issue with people - owners, fans, members of the coaching staff - who confronted them with the UNDENIABLE TRUTH about their personnel decisions. It's like these people take it as some affront, being called on their plainly TERRIBLE RECORD of procuring talent for the roster. The last five years (at least) of drafts would have been markedly better if they had simply let pretty much any SOSH poster pick players based on the various mock draft sites we frequent. I'm not even joking. It's fucking ridiculous. If he was yelling at Groh for a lack of talent on the OL, maybe that's "not cool" or "breaking ranks" or whatever, but it's certainly not an unreasonable argument to make. And, frankly, it worries me about keeping someone like him within five miles of roster management moving forward.

edit, typos and spacing
 
jk333

jk333

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EddieYost said:
I doubt Klemm is coming back.
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2024/01/04/patriots-ol-coach-adrian-klemm-matt-groh-herald-report/
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Maybe if Ferentz knows their system, he could be a fit as the next Oline coach? If I recall, they struggled when Dante first retired and this year also didn’t go well.

I agree with the sentiment in @Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt post also. It’s fine to talk about where their personnel moves have worked but the overall personnel on offense for 5+ years has ranged between below average to horrible.
 
Bowser

Bowser

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Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
I'm getting a little annoyed/concerned by the people who have left and the folks who are still here who seemed to take issue with people - owners, fans, members of the coaching staff - who confronted them with the UNDENIABLE TRUTH about their personnel decisions. It's like these people take it as some affront, being called on their plainly TERRIBLE RECORD of procuring talent for the roster. The last five years (at least) of drafts would have been markedly better if they had simply let pretty much any SOSH poster pick players based on the various mock draft sites we frequent. I'm not even joking. It's fucking ridiculous. If he was yelling at Groh for a lack of talent on the OL, maybe that's "not cool" or "breaking ranks" or whatever, but it's certainly not an unreasonable argument to make. And, frankly, it worries me about keeping someone like him within five miles of roster management moving forward.
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Preach, brother!

However, according to this article by SI, the Pats were the 9th best drafting team over the last five years. And according to this article from ESPN, they were 7th best from 2012-2022.
 
Cellar-Door

Cellar-Door

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Bowser said:
Preach, brother!

However, according to this article by SI, the Pats were the 9th best drafting team over the last five years. And according to this article from ESPN, they were 7th best from 2012-2022.
Click to expand...
Also, I have to say.... why is Adrian Klemm, who was hired by Bill Bellichick, knew who was on the roster, and that Bill picked those guys, going to Groh to complain? Seems like an insecure loser who isn't willing to stand up to his boss, or take any responsibility for his own culpability (the line was a lot better the year before with essentially the same personnel).
 
Norm Siebern

Norm Siebern

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Cellar-Door said:
Also, I have to say.... why is Adrian Klemm, who was hired by Bill Bellichick, knew who was on the roster, and that Bill picked those guys, going to Groh to complain? Seems like an insecure loser who isn't willing to stand up to his boss, or take any responsibility for his own culpability (the line was a lot better the year before with essentially the same personnel).
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Agreed. Your assessment seems spot-on. Unfortunately that was apparently his MO when he was the OLine Coach with the Steelers.
 
Jungleland

Jungleland

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I voted young hotshot offensive-minded type, but I would not be against JMD coming back. I think he's an excellent offensive coordinator who sucks at head coaching. That both makes him underrated and also someone likely to never get another shot as a head coach. If you want someone you trust will be good AND trust won't bolt in 12 months, he's a phenomenal pick imo. I don't think O'Brien is terrible, but I'd love to see some turnover outside the HC position and I view Josh as a sizable upgrade over him. Sadly, I imagine he is on Belichick's staff within the next 2 weeks.
 
Seels

Seels

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Bowser said:
Preach, brother!

However, according to this article by SI, the Pats were the 9th best drafting team over the last five years.
Click to expand...
Ahahahahaah

I'm as big a BB fan as there is but god I hate the last 5 years of drafts. They're pretty much all bad. Yea, even the one that people like. 5 years and our best draft pick is Kyle Dugger. 0 pro bowlers aside from Mac, and the only all pros are a punter and a punt returner.
 
H

HurstSoGood

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What does SoSH think of Shane Waldren? Would he be a good fit coming back to New England in the OC role, especially with things a bit crazy in SEA?
 
J

Jo_Co

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Josh McDaniels' long term success in football seems likely to be as the next generation's Norv Turner. I can't imagine anyone is going to give him another HC opportunity for a LONG time, if ever. And that would also require many successful offensive years between now and his next chance.

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back, possibly with the direction to maybe modernize his scheme, but I'm not savvy enough about the actual details to say if that's a credible solution or not. A bright side about bringing him back would be that he is likely to stay for at least a few years since he is borderline radioactive as a potential HC hire, and that would be great continuity for a young QB.
 
BigJimEd

BigJimEd

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Charlie Weis Jr with Steve Belichick as DC?

Wouldn't hate McDaniels. Would like them to look at someone like Garrett Riley or Liam Coen.
 
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Mystic Merlin

Mystic Merlin

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McDaniels can run an offense, and he’s also much less likely to be a head coach in 1-3 years, so folks understandably worried about OC churn impacting the next young QB should see that as a positive to his candidacy.
 
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

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Bowser said:
Preach, brother!

However, according to this article by SI, the Pats were the 9th best drafting team over the last five years. And according to this article from ESPN, they were 7th best from 2012-2022.
Click to expand...
Well, damn then, if they were 9th best (or 7th best) while including obvious unforced errors like Strange and Thornton, I could've been a top 5 drafter. It's a wonder they took those awesome drafts and turned them into a 4-win team.
 
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

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Cellar-Door said:
Also, I have to say.... why is Adrian Klemm, who was hired by Bill Bellichick, knew who was on the roster, and that Bill picked those guys, going to Groh to complain? Seems like an insecure loser who isn't willing to stand up to his boss, or take any responsibility for his own culpability (the line was a lot better the year before with essentially the same personnel).
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I don't disagree with this. Klemm should probably have waited a few years and THEN ALSO kept his mouth shut, but any front office guy of this era should probably not be offended by (or leaking about) criticisms of their roster development when the roster is among the very least talented in the entire league. Thank you for the pair of "Christian"s and the occasional "Pop" – now shut your trap and try to find more of them...and maybe some extra pop on offense.

edit: typos and additions
 
kenneycb

kenneycb

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God forbid someone force you to make a fact-based, nuanced argument that doesn’t rely on talking point such as “He missed a first round pick! Ozzie Newsomr never did that!” Drafting was okay. But they didn’t hit in high end talent (and UDFAs are often excluded for laziness reasons). Then they struck out a bunch in FA.
 
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

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He picked a guard (and not even an elite one) at a time when Tom Brady wasn't the QB and the team was in need of playmakers. Had they taken, say, Devin Lloyd or Christian Watson or Quay Walker, that would've made sense.

He picked a WR whose consensus round fell on Day 3, as opposed to Christian Watson or George Pickens.

Nobody is saying he can never miss. EVERY TEAM misses. Every team misses kind of a lot. But these were obviously ridiculous picks, worthy of criticism then and now, and most people said so in the moment. And the drafting wasn't "okay," it was catastrophic.
 
lexrageorge

lexrageorge

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Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
He picked a guard (and not even an elite one) at a time when Tom Brady wasn't the QB and the team was in need of playmakers. Had they taken, say, Devin Lloyd or Christian Watson or Quay Walker, that would've made sense.

He picked a WR whose consensus round fell on Day 3, as opposed to Christian Watson or George Pickens.

Nobody is saying he can never miss. EVERY TEAM misses. Every team misses kind of a lot. But these were obviously ridiculous picks, worthy of criticism then and now, and most people said so in the moment. And the drafting wasn't "okay," it was catastrophic.
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Probably better for a thread on drafting or Bill's record as GM. As Bill is not in running to be the team's offensive coordinator, I'm not sure how much it helps to re-litigate the past few drafts in this thread.

As for the OC: I would prefer a new face. But am OK with either BoB or McDaniels.
 
Kull

Kull

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Jo_Co said:
Josh McDaniels' long term success in football seems likely to be as the next generation's Norv Turner. I can't imagine anyone is going to give him another HC opportunity for a LONG time, if ever. And that would also require many successful offensive years between now and his next chance.

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back, possibly with the direction to maybe modernize his scheme, but I'm not savvy enough about the actual details to say if that's a credible solution or not. A bright side about bringing him back would be that he is likely to stay for at least a few years since he is borderline radioactive as a potential HC hire, and that would be great continuity for a young QB.
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This is an excellent point. With rare exceptions, Rookie QBs take a while to develop. It's bad enough the new guy will have to rely upon what passes for an O-line in New England, but having to learn a new scheme every year or two simply adds needless degree of difficulty. Add a certain level of familiarity and trust between Josh & Mayo, and yes, that could work.
 
Eddie Jurak

Eddie Jurak

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Seels said:
Ahahahahaah

I'm as big a BB fan as there is but god I hate the last 5 years of drafts. They're pretty much all bad. Yea, even the one that people like. 5 years and our best draft pick is Kyle Dugger. 0 pro bowlers aside from Mac, and the only all pros are a punter and a punt returner.
Click to expand...
Your spelling here was so bad I couldn't tell whether you were going for Christian Barmore or Rhamondre Stevenson.
 
Bowser

Bowser

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AB in DC said:
They're counting the 2018 Super Bowl win as evidence of draft success.
Let's just say that SI ain't what it used to be.
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Yeah, either their methodology is flawed or there's a whole bunch of teams who are worse than the Pats. Or both.
 
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