I just choked on my coffee.
I mean, it's like he's seeing how far into the ridiculous he can go to get a rise out of people. As long as they don't bring in the ghost of Wendell Kim, I can't see cause for concern, never mind outrage.
Offseason rumors
- Thread starter opes
- Start date
- Status
Agree....such as having to fire a base coach.
But not before the person who was directly responsible is fired and replaced first.... like the base coach several times. Or in the NFL the coordinators are always the first to go - sometimes several of them before they get to the head coach.
Sometime this is absolutely true...such as an entire staff.... however as a side note, sometimes it's impossible to fire someone, even at the manager level.
We are not that far off... I only attribute more responsibility (but not total) to those directly coaching that aspect of the team/game.
More on the international signings including Asencio...
https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/red-sox-signing-highly-regarded-17-year-old-outfielder
https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/red-sox-signing-highly-regarded-17-year-old-outfielder
Admittedly, I'm a bit of a Sean McAdam fanboy, but I didn't take it that way. I think it's more like, WTF is the FO being so secretive about something so inconsequential? It's relevant and semi-newsy because it fits into a larger pattern of either objectively bad or simply odd PR behavior by the team going back literally years. Ultimately, who cares? But in the middle of a blah offseason and amid questions about what "full throttle" means, the secretiveness creates another storyline to question what the team is up to (in not a good way).
I like Sean, have met and spoken to him several times, he's always a gentleman. Maybe he's just frustrated right now that he's got nothing, and that may be what's creating the tone I picked up. But I definitely picked up some tone.
That said, it's beyond inconsequential. I don't follow any of the reporters or wannabes and don't really put much stock into anything I read during this silly season. It's not satisfying at all to know nothing, but at least I'm not climbing the walls.
One thing I will say is that as frustrating as this offseason may seem, I am also kind of glad they aren't panicking. What I mean by that is something like last year, when Eovaldi wanted to test the market, but Bloom felt like he needed to shore stuff up as soon as possible so he went out and splashed for Yoshida the first day he was available, signed Kluber to fill the rotation, signed Jansen and Martin... then Eovaldi came back to them and they couldn't sign him.
I was largely a Bloom fan, and I think his talent evaluation (especially minor league talent) was good, but I have come around to the idea that he just wasn't the right guy to be "in charge".
It also makes me hopeful that they are still working on adding at least one more of the starters who are available, and are confident they can get one.
I could be wrong on that last point, though, for sure.
I was largely a Bloom fan, and I think his talent evaluation (especially minor league talent) was good, but I have come around to the idea that he just wasn't the right guy to be "in charge".
It also makes me hopeful that they are still working on adding at least one more of the starters who are available, and are confident they can get one.
I could be wrong on that last point, though, for sure.
I think Bloom did fairly well free agent wise, but his lack of ability to execute trades was really poor and the depth level at the major leagues was really bad.
When you have to acquire a waiver arm every single time someone goes down with an injury, it’s a really bad place to be. It’s the reason Breslow has traded for option-able arms in Campbell, Weissert, and Fitts.
Those guys are legit.
Nothing major, but there are a few pitchers that have done better with the Sox than might have been expected:
Pivetta
Winckowski
Schreiber
Bernardino
Yeah, I just got a kick out of the use of "state secret" and "refusal to reveal".
As I said I like Sean, have enjoyed the few times I've spoken to him. I can tell you my impressions were that he understands and respects this place's passion, if not always the content, lol.
He's a very talented guy, Cotillo could do a lot worse for a mentor.
Having Turner still isn't really "having a DH" though, as with the current construction, he'll probably see time 2 out of every 10 games or so at the corners. I don't see bringing him back as exclusive to the DH with Soler would be IMO.
I'm thinking that if he comes back in that scenario it's as the RH power bat that can also back up two positions, and rotate in at DH. Doesn't seem to be the worst use of a roster spot. I love (the idea of) Soler, but Turner seems to fill more holes. To be clear, not advocating for going in that direction, just assessing possibilities.
Edit: To be clearer, I don't necessarily see him playing every day, and with O'Neil around I'm not sure that he has to. He's not young but he is versatile to a degree, and maybe they think he can be deployed in a way that keeps him, and maybe some others, fresh.
Agree. I much prefer Turner to Soler, for the reasons you state. That seems like more that rotating in at DH, but maybe I'm being too pedantic.
Right now, Bobby Dalbec is on this 26 man and there is literally no other option than Bobby Dalbec to back up 3rd and 1b.
So yea, Turner makes a lot of sense as a positional back up/DH.
Turner made 144 starts last year, of which 98 were as the DH. So about a third of his starts were in the field (35 at 1B, 7 at 3B, 4 at 2B). That left 64 starts for the likes of Yoshida, Story, Duvall, Devers, and Casas.
Bringing back Turner for that role and scaling back his starts to 120 or so, with 80 or so at DH, might be the optimum use for him. He did fade down the stretch last year, in no small part due to his injured foot. Perhaps pacing him a bit more in 2024 would net better results through the end of the season. He is going to be 39 years old, after all.
Bringing back Turner for that role and scaling back his starts to 120 or so, with 80 or so at DH, might be the optimum use for him. He did fade down the stretch last year, in no small part due to his injured foot. Perhaps pacing him a bit more in 2024 would net better results through the end of the season. He is going to be 39 years old, after all.
I edited a little above, but yeah, I don't think we really disagree on anything of substance. And I don't think pedantic fits here, putting together a roster is a pretty nuanced and detailed process and trying to figure out roles for any acquisitions requires more than generalities. I don't think your confusion was misplaced at all given the role Turner played here last year, it's not easy to decipher what they might be thinking.
Last edited:
Whether they sign someone like Turner or not, the best defensive 3b on the roster will be Rafaela.
You give Devers and Casas days where they DH as while Turner plays the field along with days off.
We really need an actual rumor on an actual player. It's been crickets since Soler and Snell rejecting the Yankees.
In the quest for young controllable arms...this article came out this morning on Daniel Lynch.
https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/1/17/24037290/red-sox-smash-or-pass-daniel-lynch-trade-rumors-analysis
https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/1/17/24037290/red-sox-smash-or-pass-daniel-lynch-trade-rumors-analysis
Thanks for sharing, enjoyed the read. I thought the bolded below was a good reminder that we're not exactly starting with nothing.
Why would he be a good fit for the 2024 Red Sox?
Like it or not, the Red Sox aren’t major players in the free agent market this off-season. Still, reports say they’re interested in acquiring a controllable rotation piece. Daniel Lynch is exactly that. He’s already 27 but has yet to hit arbitration, making him fairly cheap for the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately, the Red Sox seem to be headed toward another bridge year. Whether that should be the case following the “full throttle” comment is a different conversation. If they aren’t going all in, and are instead waiting for the likes of Mayer, Anthony, and Teel to reach the majors before putting their chips on the table, Lynch makes a ton of sense. He’s controllable and has a ceiling of a mid-rotation starter, even if he hasn’t put it all together so far. He’s also a 6’6” lefty; those don’t grow on trees.
Why would he not be a good fit for the 2024 Red Sox?
It’s easy to forget that the 2023 Red Sox were just a few games out of the playoffs at the trade deadline last season. They didn’t acquire reinforcements, the bullpen ran out of gas, and the wheels fell off down the stretch. With more innings from the starting rotation, they could have remained in the mix until the end, and in baseball, you never know what’s going to happen. Hell, the 84-win Diamondbacks made the World Series. If the Red Sox want to avoid a situation like last year, they need quality innings. While Lynch is talented, he’s far from a sure thing.
I'd rather just roll with a guy like Paxton if they want to add a lefty, because it is no way out of the question in my mind that with better structure and a little bit of luck, things could certainly be interesting come September with even a little help.
View: https://twitter.com/francysromeroFR/status/1747663728428872180?s=20
Another arm gone. I don’t think he has the strike throwing ability to be a starter. But the stuff is intriguing.
Another arm gone. I don’t think he has the strike throwing ability to be a starter. But the stuff is intriguing.
NESN will release an edited copy…spoilers they ducking nailed it and fans and media were universally thrilled! Don’t look for the unedited on the YouTubes
My guess at this point is that it'll be Paxton and Turner, and that'll be that for the off season. Kinda the same team as last year, except subtract Sale and Verdugo, and add Giolito, Grissom, and O'Neill. Though with a healthy Duran and maybe a full year of Abreu. Hmmm ...feels a bit like shuffling the chairs around.
I would be shocked if there weren't at least one more body in the mix for SP. Even if it's just a flier on, I dunno, Alex Wood. The one thing they can't do is be so thin that we end up with injuries and no competent alternative in the wings.
I don't want our back up 1B/3B to be someone with a career WAR of 0.3 and career numbers of .318/.367/.685. Dalbec is 0.0 and .297/.447/.794, not much better but at least with some power. There's a reason neither has been able to stay in the majors over their careers.
Add to that, Reyes has a grand total of 2 MLB appearances at 1B with neither of them being a start. RFsnyder can play first if you need him, but in my ideal world no more than one of these two makes the roster.
He's played there a little in the minors, last time was 20 games in 2021 at single A Salem. He's never played 1B professionally.
Oscar Gonzalez was just DFAd by the Yankees about a month after they claimed him off waivers from Cleveland. Might be interesting depth to add, but unless I am wrong about waiver orders, the Sox would have had to pass on him before he got the the Yankees in the first place.
We look like going from the optimism of a new year, clean sweep through the org to more of the same
Lots of people are acting like they’re done. They might be. They sure sound like that. But the pieces to contend ASAP remain available: e.g. Montgomery and Hoskins.
Montgomery
Bello
Giolito
Pivetta
Crawford
L Duran CF
R Story SS
L Devers 3B
R Hoskins DH
L Yoshida LF
R O’Neill RF
L Casas 1B
R Vaughn 2B
R Wong C
That’s a decent rotation and a deeeeeeep lineup.
Montgomery
Bello
Giolito
Pivetta
Crawford
L Duran CF
R Story SS
L Devers 3B
R Hoskins DH
L Yoshida LF
R O’Neill RF
L Casas 1B
R Vaughn 2B
R Wong C
That’s a decent rotation and a deeeeeeep lineup.
Yep. It's the reason that the seemingly complete unwillingness to sign anyone to a contract of any substance is so damn frustrating. Montgomery plus Turner/Hoskins/Soler puts you squarely in wild card contention. They aren't a 60 win team. This is an 80 win team that needs to get to 85 wins. Add those guys, get a decent year from Giolito and Story and YOU ARE THERE all while staying under the tax and with big time roster flexibility moving forward.
I just can't understand it.
Right... but they still could sign those guys. That's kind of his point.
It's a legitimate strategy to see how the offseason shakes out and whose left to see if you can get something of a discount once the dust settles. It's risky, yes, but legitimate. Soler, Hoskins -- they're still out there. So are a number of starting pitchers. As many have noted, the Boras clients probably aren't going to sign until some GM loses their mind finally and overbids.
We should remember that our frustration with how the offseason has gone so far is our own feeling. It doesn't necessarily reflect reality, or what might yet happen. We should also consider that "we're happy to go into this season with this team" might just a bargaining position.
Listen, I would love to be wrong here and they grab Montgomery and Soler. Nothing would make me happier. But we cannot ignore what every reporter has said and now the CBO himself. They don't believe in 2024 and they haven't been willing to go beyond 2 years for any free agent.
That could change, let's hope, but we also need to realize that the reality of the offseason to date isn't some false flag strategy. Too many reports out there confirming the free agent strategy.
Retro rumor time:
Today the Athletic published a piece on Todd Helton and how he was almost traded after the 2006 season. The framework was for Helton to come to Boston for Mike Lowell and Julian Tavarez plus a few prospects (see below):
And assuming history stayed the same, how weird would it have been for Todd Helton to win the 2007 World Series against the Rockies?
Today the Athletic published a piece on Todd Helton and how he was almost traded after the 2006 season. The framework was for Helton to come to Boston for Mike Lowell and Julian Tavarez plus a few prospects (see below):
My guess is that Youks would have moved to third with Helton manning first base. Knowing what we know now, I'm glad the Sox never made this trade.
And assuming history stayed the same, how weird would it have been for Todd Helton to win the 2007 World Series against the Rockies?
They don’t want any more long money contract commitments on the books for whatever reason. I don’t think that’s changing next year either.
Okay, but my point is that let’s wait until those possibilities actually dry up to rend garments and gnash teeth.
It is entirely plausible, even likely, that we have the high offer to Montgomery, but Boras, because he’s good at his job and up against a rookie GM, is trying to get Breslow to negotiate against himself out of anxiety.
It is entirely plausible, even likely, that we have the high offer to Montgomery, but Boras, because he’s good at his job and up against a rookie GM, is trying to get Breslow to negotiate against himself out of anxiety.
So maybe FSG doesn't want to sign over-30 SPs to long-term deals. Given the history of such contracts, it's understandable for them to conclude that these are not great bets, but if you never agree to these type of deals it makes it pretty difficult to build or maintain a rotation. I don't thinks its a "never" as much as "avoid if possible, and be very careful if you do."
Or maybe they don't think Montgomery is worth 6/150. Or if they do, Boras is still holding out for more. It's really hard for us to know whether they are still in the market for Monty (or Snell for that matter, though I doubt it for Snell because he's likely to be more expensive and has a QO so would cost a draft pick). I don't think we should read too much into Breslow's or Werner's remarks this week - if they said that they were still planning to be aggressive (or "full throttle") in going after a SP, then this simply plays into the hands of Boras and potential SP trade partners. Boras and these GMs probably already think (or hope) that the Sox are desperate. There's no benefit to them publicly confirming that just to appease the fanbase.
I really don't think we can make any judgment on this until we see what the price ends up being for Montgomery (or Snell) or for any controllable SP that gets traded (if any).
Or maybe they don't think Montgomery is worth 6/150. Or if they do, Boras is still holding out for more. It's really hard for us to know whether they are still in the market for Monty (or Snell for that matter, though I doubt it for Snell because he's likely to be more expensive and has a QO so would cost a draft pick). I don't think we should read too much into Breslow's or Werner's remarks this week - if they said that they were still planning to be aggressive (or "full throttle") in going after a SP, then this simply plays into the hands of Boras and potential SP trade partners. Boras and these GMs probably already think (or hope) that the Sox are desperate. There's no benefit to them publicly confirming that just to appease the fanbase.
I really don't think we can make any judgment on this until we see what the price ends up being for Montgomery (or Snell) or for any controllable SP that gets traded (if any).
I'm on the table saying I understand why the FO wouldn't want to sign Snell or Montgomery. Six year contracts to pitchers in their 30's are fool's gold. The history of those contracts is straight-up horrifying. For every Scherzer and Verlander there's a dozen Strasbourgs, Johan Santanas, Carlos Rodons, and Pedro Martinezes. If they dont completely disappear, odds are their availability or the quality of their pitching takes a hit. That's just how it is. And you end up in a Sale situation again.
I'm fine with them taking a one to two year flier on a pitcher. I hope they add a 1B/LF type. I think that and a step forward from last years rookies/younglings will make them competitive. I don't think I'm alone in that.
That's a great point. They really do have a relatively clean set of books in terms of long-term contracts. Obviously the baseball answer is that they are keeping their powder dry for when they are ready to go big when the kids all start developing simultaneously. Or maybe its a return thing or keeping payroll light for other reasons.
At present, the objective appears to be something other than trying to win as many games as possible this season.
Sorry, who has "said" this? The Masslive bozos have speculated it, that's all I've seen.
Carrabis, Cotillo, and Adams have explicitly said 2 years. Speier has said they are content with not executing long term commitments with top of the market pitching. Their longest commitment has been a 2 year deal with an opt out for Giolito. Teoscar Hernandez was a legit target who went some where else on a 1 year deal.
I don't know what people want to believe. Every single data point is in line with them not wanting or being willing to sign mid to long term deals. The reporters say it, the CBO is implying it, and their actions corroborate it.
Maybe things change. But we have to at least work under the reality of the information we have and what has happened to date.
https://dcs.megaphone.fm/CAD1857596418.mp3?key=eddc8328f84f08fb42625c805dd61846&request_event_id=a393f100-f99a-42da-bccf-cd2702384dca
Craig Breslow interview on baseball isnt boring that just Rob just released today
Craig Breslow interview on baseball isnt boring that just Rob just released today
- Status